Despite the perceived differences, Dean is Clinton,

[Armstead]

There's all this talk about what Dean represents versus what Clinton represents. Dean -- the liberal outlaw vs. Clinton the centrist insider.

I think that misses the point of both of them. They have more in common than any perceived political differences. And broad generalizations are tricky.

They both share several basic characteristics as politicians. Both are basically moderates, but they are strong personalities and they are both "fighting Democrats." Both have inherent personal ability to excite people with strength of personality. An equal abiility to alienate people. And a mix of intelligence and a POPULIST approach to campaigning and a message of change.

And they both became a movement that has more to do with personality and tactics than with actual policies.

After he was elected, Clinton became a safe corporate establishment centrist. That helped him personally, but his "triangulation" strategy ultimately hurt the Democrats.

But he did NOT originally run as that. Clinton was not a "safe" candidate in 92, just as Dean is not a "safe" candidate now. Clinton ran as a new kind of grassroots politician, at least in terms of his image. To me his campaign was summed up by one line he gave: "If you elect me, I'll fight for you until the last dog dies." He ran on universal health care, the environment, jobs and against the power elite represented by a President named Bush.

Dean is much the same, except in different times. The difference now is that the country is more polarized. Plus, the Democratic Party is much more polarized. Therefore, while Clinton could safely be an outsider populist in 92 and not have to fight his own party, Dean is simultaneously campaigning against Bush and the DLC.

IMO their similarities are both a hopeful thing, and something to be wary of. The Dean Machine is driven by a truly liberal base. But his supporters need to be very careful, and very adament over time that he not become just anotehr centrist politician and forget "who brung him to the dance."

For those who consider themselves more moderate or "centrist" than Dean, his leftist image is an exagrated distraction. He is a potential winner, and he could be a uniter not a divider for Democrats. But the "times they a changing too," and you need to realize that. What worked in the 90's will not necessarily work today.

But one thing is true today that was true in 92. We need a "fighting Democrat."

[Tatiana]

1. Good points Armstead.

Excellent post. The sad fact is that the most liberal candidate we have in the race (Kucinich) doesn't stand a chance of being nominated. The second-most liberal candidate we have (Kerry) has just run a disaster of a campaign and his chances are pretty much a long shot of winning the nomination.

So basically the nominee that we'll likely end up with (Dean) will be more of the same (Clinton/Gore).

Honestly, that would be helluva better than what we've got going now. But it still would have been nice to truly have a completely new breed of politician in the White House.

[Bandit]

14. The Right didn't get where they are overnight

It is a start. I agree that I would prefer a much more liberal candidate but when compared to Wolfowitz and Pearle and Cheney and Poindexter, and Abrams, and well you get the picture. Any one we can get elected is a good start in turning the country around to a humane nation once again.

[slinkerwink]

2. and Dean's the best fighting Democrat we have out there!

[Armstead]

I agree

I just hope he keeps on fighting in the general and after he gets elected.

[slinkerwink]

6. I bet he will.......what he's shown so far has convinced me that

he'll win the general election hands-down.

[CityZen-X]

10. With The General

I hope he continues fighting with the General Clark!

[Bombtrack]

3. Clinton was a hell of a lot more electable

And Clinton still might not have been able to win under these post 9-11 type circumstances

[mzmolly]

4. Electable ... schmelectable

Go Dean! Don't underestimate this campaign my friend ;)

[HFishbine]

9. Bombast

So, let me get this straight, some candidate who cannot beat Dean is more electable than Dean?

[Bombtrack]

13. in a primary or general election?

I was talking about national general election electability. Dean would never run against Clinton and vice versa so I have no idea what your point is if you have one

[blm]

5. Clinton was a moderate with the heart of a liberal. Dean is

a centrist with the core of a Libertarian.

[chimpymustgo]

7. I resent the lame attempt to link the two.

Howard Brush Dean can only dream of having Clinton's political gifts. It's absurd to compare the two.

[Armstead]

12. Clinton was a corporatist

He may have had the heart of a liberal but he had the brain of Al From and Dick Morris once he got in.

I hope Dean does better than that.

[blm]

17. And Dean boasted that he was a triangulator before Clinton.

How you got the idea that Dean is not a corporatist is baffling. He was the CATO Institutes favorite Dem governor. Dean was part of the rightwing Dems pulling the party to the center for the last decade. Now you expect us to buy his election year conversion to populism?

[sandnsea]

8. Okay, they're the same

Dean supported alot of Clinton's policies that people around here hate. In alot of cases, Dean was to the right of Clinton. Why do this again if we don't have to?

Dean is the anti-DLC. He's the liberal maverick. He's the centrist uniter.

People make Dean be anything they want him to be. Again, bizarre.

[Armstead]

11. That's what a good politician does

He or she allows people to project their own beliefs onto him or her.

[sandnsea]

16. So much for the "movement"

Same shit, new day. Politics as usual. Empty campaign promises. Status quo.

That's why I'm staying behind someone who has a proven record that I agree with 95%. Can't have everything, but when I can have almost everything, I'm pretty damn excited.

[dolstein]

15. I have to point out a few obvious differences

1. Bill Clinton is a Souternor. Dean is a Northeasterner.
2. Bill Clinton grew up poor. Dean comes from an affluent family.
3. Bill Clinton, as a former chairman of the DLC, had a reputation for taking positions at odds with core liberal constuencies (pro-death penalty, pro-free trade, anti-big government). Howard Dean, on the other hand, has sided squarely with these liberal constituencies against the DLC.