Is the "Dean Won't Win" chant Republican propaganda?

[Killarney]

I've read several articles saying that Dean can't beat Bush. I'm wondering how much of this is conservative media/Republican propaganda. I wonder if they are hoping for a self-fulling prophecy. And hoping if they chant it enough, the swing voters will vote Bush because they don't want to back a loser.

It just seems to me that any self-respecting unbiased reporter wouldn't claim today that Dean can't beat Bush because a) it is so early and b) so much of it depends on who his running mate is (Clark, Edwards, Graham, etc).

What do you think? Truth to it or conservative propaganda?

[Hep]

1. Absolutely no truth to it

There's no way to verify it. There's JUST no way to predict the future. No way Concinatti was going to beat Kansas City. It's why they PLAY THE GAME.

So the answer is this. Propaganda. Not just conservative, but moreso propaganda from certain people on the LEFT.

[GreenPartyVoter]

29. I think it's another BIG LIE

Say it enough and it will become true in the minds of the people. :evilfrown:

[Scott Lee]

2. It's definitely in their playbook. And some DUers gladly parrot it.

Sort of gives a whole new meaning to the Lenin term "useful idiots", no?

[eileen_d]

9. "Useful idiots, no?" No.

Some DUers think for themselves, and lo and behold, they still believe Dean is unelectable.

I'm not one of them, but I'm tired of people reducing the race to Dean vs. right-wing Democrats. It's just not that simple.

[WiseMen]

21. Dean Looses HUGELY to Bush in every National Poll

Even after he had received massive publicity -- Time/Newsweek covers, dominant on the TV news programs -- he continues to loose to Bush by 15-20 points. Kerry, Clark have been competitive with Bush in national polls and Kerry beat bush on the ABC/Washington Post poll.

Many Democrats think Dean can win. But few political experts, left or right have not said the the fundamentals of American public opinion makes it almost impossible because beyond the Bush republican base there is a solid group with a viceral negative reaction to Howard Dean.

As a member of what is called the radical left, I have sufferred through many painful election failures.

I beg my fellow progressives to look at the facts and understand that the Dean express is taking the activist movement over a cliff, NOT because of his views, but because of his weaknesses as a candidate.

[ryharrin]

28. He is NEVER more than one or two points behind Clark or Kerry.

Plus, what do polls about an election a year away have to do with anything? If they mattered Kerry would be the presumptive nominee and Dean would be thinking about returning to his medical practice.

[depakid]

30. I completely agree.

and the above post by wiseman is a textbook example.

[jpgray]

3. Of course, Dean has one of the best chances among the candidates

They may actually believe it, but I'm sure they also thought Clinton would never win.

[nborders]

6. Perot?

I might get mud thrown at me, however is it possible that Clinton wouldn't have beat Bush 1 if Perot was watering down the repos?

~n

[jpgray]

12. Some DUer showed the data from each state

Clinton still would have had the upper hand--Perot drew from each candidate more or less evenly.

[jobycom]

15. Not according to the evidence

No mud, but all exit polls, all state by state analysis, and many pre-election polls demonstrated that Perot drew equally from Bush and Clinton. Republicans have tried to change that little fact (Republicans lie? Gasp! But yes.), but there's no basis in it.

Reminds me of Karen Hughes, when asked if Bush's legitimacy was undermined at all by the fact that he got fewer votes than Gore. She answered no, he had still gotten more than Clinton in 1992. Which was nifty, since he wasn't running against the 92 Clinton but against Gore, who got more votes than him. Funny little Republican self-delusions, but hey, you gotta love them.

[mot78]

4. Yes

personally I think most Republicans want Dean elected, but they should be careful for what they wish for. He was a fairly centrist Governor in Vermont (and even faced a third party challenge for his 200 reelection bid because the candidate thought he should have signed a full gay marriage bill instead of just one for Civil Unions.)

[ComerPerro]

5. I don't know, because

A fuckload of people are saying it here.

If its not "Dean won't win", its "Clark won't win" or "Kucinich won't win", etc.

Guess what, they could all win.

[Vogon_Glory]

7. Prophecies Most Likely To Come True If You Believe In Them

Pudnitocratic prophecies that Howard Dean can't beat George Deucey-U Bush are most likely to come true if we give credence to them.

Dean is not my first choice for the Democratic nominee for President this autumn. But I'll sure as Sam Hill vote for him and campaign for him against the resident in the White House.

Besides, the thought of David Brooks, Laura Ingraham, George Will, and others having to feat on crow after Election Day 2004 does have a certain visceral appeal to me.

:evilgrin:

[killbotfactory]

8. Propaganda

His campaign is unconventional and has defied the odds, conventional wisdom, and petty attacks from his opponents while becoming fundraising powerhouse and huge grassroots movement. They have no idea how to fight him.

[jobycom]

10. Right or wrong, sometimes it's honest analysis

That's my take, so far. If Dean doesn't develop a more visionary and less reactionary style, I don't think he can win. That's just how I see it. Hopefully I'll be proven wrong.

On the other hand, if you are asking if large numbers of journalists would craft stories to undermine a candidate in order to assist a Republican candidate, I believe that answer is "Duh!"

Take your pick. Depends on the journalist.

PS I'll stop saying Dean can't win when it's time to campaign for real. Let's see if the media stops then. Maybe that's the difference.

[Kathleen04]

11. Some of it is them...

and I think some of it is OUR own fears, we've been burnt before and don't want it to happen again. On our side of the equation, I think it's part of the normal primaryh process, we want the best candidate to go up against Bush*. We can discuss it all we want, but after the nomination, should he be the nominee, I hope some of this "Dean can't win" stuff will die down...at least on DU.

[Zomby Woof]

13. no

Just an honest assessment.

[bleedingheart]

14. My mother remembers Truman as a reactionary and everyone said

he wouldn't win...well we all know how that story turned out.

A lot of people are upset and they like the candidate who seems more down to earth and says it like it is. My husband was talking to a clerk at Eckerd and the fellow was excited about Dean because he shows some fire.

[jpgray]

23. That election was rather close for my taste

But I agree with what you are saying. Dean's personality does have an apparently broad appeal.

[Bombtrack]

16. it's not propaganda it's poltical reality

he is not unelectable, but he's far far less electable than other candidates.

At the end of the day, he's still there dream candidate for the GOP, even if Sharpton and Kucinich are better dreams.

[Cleita]

17. Of course it is and don't let anyone tell you otherwise.

Why Democrats repeat it, I don't know. Let's face it, no one knows the future, but the Republicans are getting uncomfortable. Watch the shrillness of the accusations and deprecations ratchet upwards in the months to come.

[Eric J in MN]

18. Unless Dean reassures the middle-class that he won't raise their taxes,

Unless Dean reassures the middle-class that he won't raise their taxes,
he won't win.

Mondale was creamed when he said he wanted to raise taxes.

[denverbill]

19. Actually, no, DLC propaganda.

However, Karl Rove has been eager to coopt it as well.

The DLC thinks we need the DLC to win the elections by begging corporations for money in return for favors down the road. That's how we ended up with no national health care, NAFTA, and a slew of other poor policy decisions.

If Dean can truly convince Americans that he is not bought and paid for by drug companies, trial lawyers, and Walmart, he has a chance to turn American politics on it's head.

It will take a near miracle to out fund-raise Bush, but if anyone can do it, it's the doctor, and he'll do it $100 at a time, not $2000 at a time.

When you owe your Presidency to men who can donate $100 as opposed to those who can donate $2000, you can govern with ordinary people in mind.

[blm]

20. Kerry is a "corrupt Washington insider"

I know because Deanies told me so. He's also "Bushlite" because Dean said so and that was parroted by most of his supporters.

[onebigbadwulf]

22. Yes. Same mantra used in 1992

[AlinPA]

24. Its the media. They are told what to say by the republicans.

Broadcast media controls drives everything in politics in this country today and lots of 'murkins eat it up.

[Kurovski]

25. Meme update: Bush can't win.

Slip it in wherever you can. Because, well, Bush can't win. He couldn't in 2000 and he can't now.

Did you ever think about how Bush can't win? It's just, well, it makes you wonder how they can seriously run this guy at all. It's so hopeless, really, you almost feel sorry for the suckers who think he can actually pull this off. So sad.

Maybe if he did a halfway decent job, MAYBE he'd have a chance, but as it stands: BUSH can't WIN.

[ClassWarrior]

27. AMEN!!! WOOO-HOOO!!! SAY IT LOUD, SAY IT PROUD, BRUTHAH!!!

Are you going to join me and calimary as one of DU's "meme schemers?"

[ClassWarrior]

26. OF COURSE IT IS!!

Purely on the basis of the fact that ABSOLUTELY NO ONE - NOT EVEN KRESKIN - CAN PREDICT THE FUTURE.

I'm sorry if this has me all worked up, but this is EXACTLY why I hate pundits. They don't talk about what happened - they talk about what they in all their wisdom know will happen. Idiots.