Well, shoot - maybe Will Pitt was right, after all

[Paragon]

Ted Koppel asks the candidates to raise their hands if they think a post-Gore-endorsement Howard Dean can beat Junior...

...and only Dean is left with his hand hanging.

How sad. Each and every person on that stage is a better candidate, better human being than the Chimp. Every hand should have gone up, as it should've if the question was posed with any other candidate.

There are still deep divisions here, as evidenced at the debate and here on DU. But let's declare "war" on the right guy, shall we?

[liberalhistorian]

1. Gore was right in that the divisiveness of Dems

will be our, and the country's, downfall if we don't stop it, come together, and focus like a laser beam on the one true goal of getting the Bushistas the hell out of the WH! That was a none-too-subtle and well-deserved slap at Lieberman for his constant harpings against Dean and cut-downs of other candidates.

[DrBB]

11. Gore EXACERBATED the divisiveness of Dems

"Come together behind Dean" he says, before a single vote or primary has been held.

I've said for some time that if the media had their way, we'd just take a survey of which candidate had raised the most money and hand the race to him or her. Well, now Gore has added his voice to that absurd, anti-democratic idea. It's worth noting that, by the same measure, Bush is WAY out in front of all our candidates combined.

I'm one of those who was not overly impressed with Gore in his DLC incarnation last time around. I don't vote based on endorsements, and even if I did, Gore's would not be a kingmaker for me.

I'm reasonably interested in Dean's candidacy. He's not my first choice, but up till now I've stayed open-minded. But Gore's move makes me LESS inclined toward him, rather than more.

Gore chose to rule out a candidacy of his own, disappointing a lot of people. If he doesn't have the--whatever--to run himself, why should I hand over to him the power to say who should win the nomination? Seems to me our last presidential election was decided by fiat rather than votes. I should have thought that was a legacy Gore would be less eager to perpetuate.

[TopesJunkie]

17. Yeah, no one should share their views before an election ever!

[NewYorkerfromMass]

40. Yes Dr. It is a huge turn off for me too.

Turned me off to Gore, and distances me from Dean more than I was.
Gore showed a complete lack of elder statesman/ diplomacy qualities here.
Comparitively, Clinton is quite a class act.

[imhotep]

2. dont worry

if they stay bitter they wont get to be Dean's VP.

[hippiechick]

3. Who cares what the other candidates think ?

<to paraphrase the Chimp>...

That classless move alone has probably galvanized the Dean Machine's nearly 500,000 members to hit the streets with just that much more force in the weeks to come.

The other 8 candidates aren't selecting the Dem nominee, the voters and the primary caucuses are. So as far as I'm concerned they could have all stood there with their fingers up their noses and their pants around their knees.

The 'other 8' showed what they're really made of.


:hippie:

[Eloriel]

30. Here's how galvanized we are

The bat went up this afternoon -- at the bloggers' request:

[sleipnir]

4. When the other 8 drop out, they'll change their tune

Dean will get the nomination, all the other failed candidates will get behind Dean and he'll beat Bush, end of story.

[MIMStigator]

5. They didn't say Dean wasn't better than * they said he can't win n/t

nt

[ulysses]

10. oh, well that makes it better.

I'll be looking forward to seeing that clip in a Bush ad should Dean win the nomination. "Even the other Democrats don't think he's the right man for the job."

Ah, unity.

[TopesJunkie]

18. Thus, if he gets the nomination --

Bush can show them speaking for Dean as a worthy candidate and then show them failing to raise their hand to the question tonight. It's a great ad, and nobody had to spend much time or money on it.

[hlthe2b]

6. I'm confused... I thought the debate was on ABC tonight?

Has it already occurred and is being telecast by tape?

If not, where did you see this?

[Wonk]

12. On C-SPAN now. ABC Nightline will be about it later tonight.

http://play.rbn.com/?url=cspan/g2cspan/live/cspan1-g2.rm

[eileen_d]

7. I don't get it.

Edit: I read it wrong, but still... it was a stupid question, a setup top make ALL Dems look bad. It's a debate amongst ALL of the candidates, not a Dean vs. Bush debate.

[BackDoorMan]

8. Fucking doubtful!

[shirlden]

9. I am a committed ABB

I think Gore was trying to pull the party together. This endorsement will no doubt thin out those running. Let's face it folks, we have too many candidates. I like all of them for one reason or another (well maybe not Holy Joe) but we can't support that many and hope to make any dent in the Repug thugs.
The good news is we do have some top quality folks in this race and every one of them would be great at some cabinet post. Start making up your wish list for the cabinet and you will see what I mean.

:kick:

[JVS]

13. Gore could be preventing a very destructive and divisive primary process

I remember hearing a lot of ABB, but when one candidate seems bound to be nominated I hear a lot of howling. What gives?

[Bucky]

38. Gore's message is that we shouldn't argue among ourselves. Such BS

His stated reason for the endorsement, that Dean's the front runner and therefor we should avoid a divisive debate, seem to lack a fundamental faith in the power of democracy. Debates don't have to be divisive. Only emotionally insecure moral cowards like the Bushies can't distinguish between disloyalty and dissent.

I expect better from Al Gore.

I will continue to vigorously contend against Howard Dean as our nominee until he loses or is guaranteed of a victory (or until it comes down to a two-way race of Dean vs Lieberman, vs Kucinich, or vs Sharpton).

Once Dean is nominated, you can bet your daddy's ass I'll vote and support and work like crazy to get Dean elected. Either Dean will be a stronger candidate for my opposition or my opposition will result in a stronger candidate than Dean.

Gore's message is that Dean can't handle my arguments or is too fragile to win over my Democratic support after beating my guy in the race. So who's got the real anti-Dean message here? Hell, who's got the real lack of faith in our party here?

(Hint: I don't think it's me)

[wndycty]

14. The only one who should have raised his hand is Dean!!!

Its Hillary Clinton's job to say any Dem is better than Bush, its Al Gore's job to say any Dem is better than Bush, its Dick Durbin's job to say any Dem is better than Bush, its Jesse Jackson's job to say any Dem is better than Bush, its Bill Clinton's job to say any Dem is better than Bush! But its not any of the candidates to say any Dem is better than Bush as long as they are in the running!

[TopesJunkie]

19. It's also the candidates' jobs --

If they can't do that much, they shouldn't be running. A little maturity please.

[wndycty]

33. Oh please this is the primaries. . .

. . .you do not promote your opponents.

[Zorra]

15. I like DK, but

if the Doc is nominated I'm behind him. Just like I would be behind any other candidate if they were nominated. The other Dem candidates will do the same.

[dfong63]

16. did Koppel ask the same question about the other candidates,

... who didn't get Gore's endorsement?

if the other 8 candidates don't think Dean can win - which of them thinks anyone but him or her ownself can?

sheesh.

the idea of Sharpton, Kucinich, Moseley-Braun, and Edwards naysaying Dean's electability - what a crock.

[enki23]

20. why, exactly, can't he win?

because he's anti-war? that's a big part of why he's leading in the run for the nomination. clark says he's against the iraq war, is he unelectable for the same reason? i seldom seen anyone consistent on this. either way, though, if the same issue that wins them the nomination guarantees their loss in the general election, then you may as well pack it in, cuz if you're right it doesn't much matter now.

i think either of them has a decent chance of winning, both far more than the other candidates. i love kucinich, but he can't even get the nomination. whether he could beat bush doesn't matter. same for sharpton, edwards, braun, lieberman. kerry might have a shot at the nomination, as would gephardt, especially if dean and clark weren't running...

but the dean and clark campaigns both have something none of the other candidates (other than kucinich) have: energy. people actually give a fuck about them. they care enough to fight each other over this shit like it were life and death. it's not, you know, but i'm glad somebody gives a damn. not very many gave a damn about al gore, at least on our side of the aisle, or the democratic party as led by him. nader had the only energy in the last election cycle. bush was boring as fuck. but dean and clark have energetic campaigns, dean especially has an edge with grassroots efforts nobody else has been able to match. the other candidates were blindsided by that.

i'm not even much of a fan of the guy, still undecided, but the people behind his campaign have run circles around the rest. if the dean campaign is that good, or perhaps clarks, or if the rest are that bad, then why would anyone consider them "unelectable?" unelectable compared to what?

[many a good man]

21. Not my read at all

I saw it as a refusal to play Koppel's stupid little game.

Furthermore they refused to take the flame bait. I saw it as a sign of Democratic unity. They laid off. I think Gore's message may have sunk in.

I think Will is right to ask the question. However I think both sides are smart enough to let the voters decide. You don't use tactical nukes in a civil war.

:nuke:

[retyred]

22. Every hand should have gone up

For what? To say that Gore's endorsement somehow is a deciding factor in deans electability?

What the others did was to say Gore was irrelevant. Had the question been phrased w/o the Gore reference, the response may have been different.

I think they did the right thing, it would've been a death knell to give Gore that much credit!



retyred in fla
“good night paul, wherever you are”
So I read this book

[kayleybeth]

23. Maybe they were just being honest.

Like it or not, many prominent Dems do not think Dean can beat shrub next year. If he gets the nomination, I hope he proves them all wrong. But at this point they are certainly not alone in thinking we will get our asses handed to us in 2004 if Dean is the candidate.

[HuckleB]

24. If they were "being honest," most of them have big mirror they need...

to look into, real quick. Sorry, if that crowd doesn't think Dean can win, how can any member believe that he or she can win instead?

[kayleybeth]

29. Sorry but

I agree with the other candidates. I don't think Dean can win either. I like the guy fine, I even donated money to him before Clark got in the race. I just don't think he'll be able to stand up against the Rove machine. He's running a great primary campaign but (at this point anyway) I don't think he is likely to get the swing voters and southern voters we will need to beat shrub in the GE.

That's just my opinion. You are free to disagree. If Dean does manage to get the nomination, I hope and pray that he wins the GE and you will be able to smugly say "I told you so" come next November. This is about beating shrub, and I won't mind being proven wrong if Dean can pull that off. I just don't have much hope right now that he's the one who can do it.

And if it makes you feel any better, there are several other candidates whom I also believe have no chance of winning in the GE. Again, just my opinion. The election is still a long way off. I could be wrong about them too.

[Eloriel]

27. If those prominent Dems don't quit the hell saying that

they'll risk creating a self-fulifilling prophecy.

[unfrigginreal]

25. It was a cheap question by a media whore

I'll tell you what though, my confidence level is very high for the Governor now. Gore really firmed it up for me. I don't think that there is anything that the other 8 can say to shake Dean supporters at this point. Same for the media regardless of what they say.

We know that the more people get exposed to Dean the higher his poll numbers and favorables become. So, I think that the only way that Dean gets hurt is if he hurts himself, and it would take something really outrageous.

[BigMcLargehuge]

26. raised their hand? No...

They should have all rushed center stage and beat the everloving shit out of Ted Koppel for that question. How on Earth can anyone defend such a blatant attempt of the media to "pick" the candidate? Then, to top it off, to ask WHY they didn't put their hands up? I was sitting here hoping General Clark would unleash a Green Beret Death Grab on both Koppel and Spradling.

To have the balls to literally discount ALL 8 OTHER CANDIDATES was not only disrespectful to THEM but to Howard Dean and to every single Democrat watching.

[fabius]

28. Koppel was atrocious. He should retire.

media whore, media whore, media whore. :puke:

We just turned it off. What a waste of time.

[WillyBrandt]

31. You have to be fucking kidding me--that was a trick question

I don't think any Dem--excepting Lieberman--has denied that every other Dem would make superior Presidents when compared to Bush. (I know Clark has.)

What's the issue? It was a preposterous thing to ask.

Jesus!

[Kool Kitty]

32. Would it be such a big problem to wait and see

how the primaries go? Couldn't we get to vote first and THEN find out who the winner is? And then we all get behind him or her? Please, doesn't it seem like this is the way to go-votes first, winner declared as a result of counting the votes? No matter who wins, speaking for myself, I will support them. But, first things first.

[angee_is_mad]

37. U make sense

I agree with you and I felt that it was insulting of Gore to basically tell the other candidates to drop out of the race when not one single vote has been cast.
The more I see Dean, the more I love Clark. But as others have said, whoever wins the nomination I GUESS I would vote for them. But I still have serious doubts about Dean.

[wabeewoman]

34. Too many people on this board

are buying the repug talking points. Dean can win even if the DLC doesn't support him. He can win without Gore or any other leading dem's support. He can win because he has a grass root organization and people who believe in him and believe WE the people are the ones who will control who will be the next president. Of course, WE might be delusional especially given the battle against the press. But if everyone who eventually supports Dean cries foul, writes and calls over EVERY article quoting repug talking points and not the facts, and we continue to tell everyone who will listen why Dean is 100 times better than bush maybe, just maybe Dean can win.

[w4rma]

35. It was classless and self-serving of them, IMHO.

It says to me that they may be more interested in the title rather than doing the job.

[Catherine Vincent]

36. I wouldn't read too much into that.

They all just thought THEY would beat Bush*. They just let their pride get in their way. That's all that was.

[BrewerJohn]

39. Koppel pulled that trick as the very first shot

Which he had to do to be reasonably sure of getting the desired result. If he had waited long
enough for the Dems to see where he was going with his divisive questions, I'll bet we would have
seen something different. At least Kucinich, Braun and Sharpton -- and maybe some of the
others -- would have gone "Wait just a minute there, Ted -- this isn't what we're about".
As it was the element of surprise worked against us.