Dems screw up in first minute of NH debate.

[trof]

First "question".
Ted Koppel talks about Gore endorsement of Dean and asks all dem candidates to raise hand if they think Dean can beat Bush*.

Dean's is the only hand to go up.
Then Koppel starts with Kerry "Why don't you think Dean can beat Bush*?" and Kerry goes into a campaign speech.

EVERY HAND SHOULD HAVE GONE UP!
Read that again.
EVERY HAND UP!
WE ALL CAN BEAT BUSH*.
And the candidates SHOULD say "Any person up here can beat George Bush*. What we should be talking about is..."

Merde.
I am SO down.
We are going to kick our own tushies.
And it took a H-E-double hockey sticks of a lot of self control to avoid profanity in the first post in this thread.
Merde doesn't count.
You could look it up.

[onebigbadwulf]

1. Is it live or delayed?

I am CALI time I want to watch!

[trof]

2. c-span @ 6:00 CST

[Doug Decker]

4. The NH dabate on is live...

is SoCal right now, on Cspan1. Channel 65 on Time Warner Cable.

Enjoy :hi:

[mandyky]

5. CSpan is simulcasting it

not sure about your time..

[bleedingheart]

3. what a bunch of goofs...

I hope Dean pulls a Truman on them and boy oh boy will I laugh.

[liberalhistorian]

9. Funny you should mention that,

because my mom said this morning while watching the speech that Dean reminded her of Truman.

[Padraig18]

6. I could have jackslapped each and every one of the other 7!

:grr:

[MoonAndSun]

10. Dean had his turn to talk about the Gore endorsement and he

said that if they had an issue with the endorsement, then attack me (Dean) not Al Gore who he called a moral and good man.

I was very disappointed with the beginning of this debate. But Dennis K put Koppel in is place by blaming him for starting this debate on the Gore endorsement. And the audience agreed and clapped loudly.

[ibegurpard]

13. Good for Kucinich!

:toast:

[Scott Lee]

34. Aye!

[Padraig18]

16. I liked that!

:toast: to DK! :)

[dweller]

68. That's right, he did

and they did applause.

he stuck it back up Koppel just right. It's not how the media sees it.

go DK!

dp

[trof]

12. Caution: Strong Language to Follow:

STUPID, DUMBASS, IGNORANT, IDIOT, EGO-DRIVEN, DUMBSHIT, NOT-A-FUCKING-CLUE ASSHOLES.

I am SO goddam tired of this.

[Alenne]

7. That was stupid. nt

[loudnclear]

8. I agree. Every hand should have gone up!

Everyone should have maintained that any one of them could beat Bush. This was a moment of unity that the grassroots needed to see.

[lastliberalintexas]

11. How sad

We really are our own worst enemy. *sigh*

[trof]

19. I held some hope out, until now.

I think we're fucked.
Talk about NOT having your act together.
:-(

[TopesJunkie]

37. Yeah, this is an ad made in heaven for *.

[eissa]

14. Pride vs. Unity

and pride won :(

BTW, stupid question Koppel.

[Padraig18]

20. The circular firing squad of Democratic legend

:puke::grr:

[trof]

22. IMHO, Good question. Bad answer.

That was a gimme for "us", and "we" blew it.

[cprise]

29. No

DEM establishment is not the same thing as "WE".

Sorry.

THEY blew it!

[G_j]

24. maybe but

he did expose a major weakness, and they could have raised their hands and shown some wisdom and class. He set a trap, they walked into it and looked foolish.
I fear a sound bite...

[rucky]

15. We don't deserve to win

Bush isn't sweating it, is he?

[UTUSN]

17. It Was a Gotcha - Wasn't Can-we-ALL-beat-Shrub

If each candidate was going to say somebody else could do the job, why carry on a competing campaign.

KUCINICH is being smoother and funnier, saying he didn't expect to get GORE's endorsement.

[WhoCountsTheVotes]

18. why is corporate whore Koppel allowed to ask BS questions like that?

Everyone should agree that anyone can beat Bush, but why do we allow nonsense, BS, divise questions like that? Hire someone else, Ted Kopell is hardly a big deal.

[neuvocat]

21. Thank you.

If everyone else raised their hands then the media whores would have spun that as an endorsement of Dean by the other candidates.

[WhoCountsTheVotes]

27. no questions about ISSUES yet

Horse race, polls, money, yadda yadda. Someone retire this sorry lapdog.

Kerry just said "If I was an impolite person I would tell you what to do with your polls." GOOD FOR KERRY.

[neuvocat]

33. Did he really say that???

That's great!

[TopesJunkie]

39. Baloney --

You can't blame them for everything. This was a huge mess up. You don't just raise your hand, you make it clear that everyone of them can beat Bush.

[Walt Starr]

23. Fuck every one of 'em who didn't stick up their hand

Every last one.

That was so stupid. The answer was clear, "Any of us can and will beat Bush, Ted. The real question is which one of us will be best for America."

[trof]

25. Me & you, Walt.

Fuck it.
I'm going to bed.

[SahaleArm]

42. Sorry but the question was a total setup

Damned if you do and damned if you don't. Would you prefer the media annoint the nominee now?

[TopesJunkie]

46. The answer doesn't have to follow the set up --

The should have been prepared for it. The response is raise your hand and tell Ted that every one of us can beat Bush. Is that so hard?

[SahaleArm]

49. If they raised their hands - They would not be given a chance to explain

It was totally orchestrated.

[TopesJunkie]

50. It's a quick sentence --

You just say it while you're raising your hand. It's not hard.

[SahaleArm]

62. What do they do, shout it out?

Doesn't work that way - Ted is the controller and runs the show. They were asked the question at the same time, not individually.

[Cleita]

26. So now you know why Dean is our man.

The rest of them are not running in the interests of their constituents.

[ProudGerman]

30. oh c'mon

Dean raising his hand to state that he thinks Dean can beat Bush shows that he's the only one thinking of his constituents?

If all the candidates were running for the Democratic Nomination, then yes, each of them should have, and probably would have raised their hands. But they aren't running for the Democratic Nomination. Each and every one of them now is running for President. Have been since each one announced they were running.

I'm gonna hold off the doom and gloom until after the nomination and the non winners don't back the nominee. People will have long forgotten this debate by the time that happens. If the non winners do back the eventual nominee, then what happened here means absolutely nothing.

[LeftPeopleFinishFirst]

28. I give up

Seriously. I just give up on the whole lot of them.

[RandomKoolzip]

31. Guys, c'mon, it's not as if everybody in the world is watching this debate

Only political junkies like us are preoccupied by this stuff...Unless the media takes it uopn themselves to put that little clip on all the top news shows all the time...Or am I just being naive?

Let's not say it's the end of the world until after the primaries...

[Le Taz Hot]

43. The problem is, it will be used

as a convenient sound bite if Dean does get the nomination, as if to say, "See, none of your fellow Democrats support your candidacy." Yeah, it was a gotcha trap and the other 8 (7?) fell right into it.

[Military Brat]

32. Koppel treats the candidates like this is a high school event,

and the Dems are running for class president. What a sophomoric question, he was setting an obvious trap, and it was absolutely beneath the dignity of this debate. Congrats to Dean for his self-confidence. As for the others, no comment. It's all too weird.

Maybe none of them raised their hand because they were trying too hard to keep from flipping Koppel the bird.

[AnAmerican]

72. ROFL

"flipping Koppel the bird" That about sums it up. The whole question was total bullshit and I don't fault any of them for not falling for it. Hell, even Dean chuckled, realizing that it was a sophomoric attempt by Ted to arouse the others into attacking him.

[Deja Q]

35. Were you expecting something else?!

Every candidate for himself, it would seem.

At least they're acting honest. It's a bit PC, corny, and trite, all rolled into one, for all the candidates to chime "Any person up here can beat George Bush*..."

[TopesJunkie]

41. Corny it may be, but it's about winning the election for the Dems --

And corn wins!

[TopesJunkie]

36. Yep. That was pitiful.

We ARE indeed our own worst enemy.

[belab13]

38. missed that part of the debate but it sounds like it was a complete setup.

Koppel burn in HELL

[pinto]

40. off point, but is anyone aware of a replay (PST)? Thks

[Blue-Jay]

52. Replay at 7:00 PST.

n/t

[lumpy]

44. Whine whine whine

Moan and groan. It's all over. We lost. Boo hoo. Good grief!

[TopesJunkie]

47. We just gave Bush a very nice ad, free of charge --

That's kind of a big deal. It's time we prepare.

[populistmom]

45. It's like they can't see the forrest through the trees

Makes me want to shake each of them and say, "It means more than just YOU, idiot!"

[Ksec]

48. Debate, the object is to win. Of course they didnt play cheerleader for De

[TopesJunkie]

51. That's right --

The object is to win, and they just made it harder for whoever wins the nomination. Brilliant.

[Ksec]

53. Its a mean nasty world out here

They volunteered to play the game and you cant get upset when they dont play like you think they should

[TopesJunkie]

57. Yes, it is mean and nasty --

That's why you don't allow mistakes like this to happen. The ultimate victory that we all care about won't come through division.

[incapsulated]

54. Wrong, they gave the right answer

It was a trick question to which either answer would have been bad. They choose the one that was least damaging for their own campaigns, despite the attempt to make this debate the "annoint Dean show".

If they raised their hands, imagine how much worse the questions that followed would have been: "Why don't you drop out, you have already admitted that Dean can win, he's got the momentum, why drag this out?"

No, they wouldn't have been able to defend themselves from the coming attack that Koppel had in store for them nearly as effectively if they had basically given their "endorsement" to Dean in the first minute, which is exactly what Koppel was trying to do.

[Ksec]

56. hmmm you make a good point

and I cant argue with that. Its one of those damned if you do questions.

[TopesJunkie]

58. Hardly --

One simple sentence said as they raised their hands would have done it all. "We can all beat Bush, Ted." 'Nuff said. It wouldn't have been hard. It shouldn't have been hard. But I guess it is for these guys. Sheesh.

[incapsulated]

61. What, they were supposed to yell out slogans in unison?

As they raised their hands? They had no idea that question was coming, and there is no way they would be allowed to comment.

It was all a setup.

[TrueAmerican]

55. This is flame bait

Nobody screwed up.

[TopesJunkie]

59. Yeah, they did --

;)

[Media_Lies_Daily]

60. What the heck is wrong with you people?...

Correct me if I'm wrong, but why should any of the Docratic nominees be supporting the nomination of another Democrat? If any of the Democrats had answered the question, yes or no, how would that have looked to their own backers?

Some of you folks are going out of your way to pick fights.

[arewethereyet]

63. and people think Koppel is good at what he does

what a fucking idiot to ask that question...

And he's a leftie !

I might expect it of O'Reilly...

[kayleybeth]

64. Maybe they were just answering honestly

Would you prefer that they had lied?

[symbolman]

65. Nevermind all that

Are they still beating their wives? :)

[HighTide]

66. we eat our own

so sad

[KaraokeKarlton]

67. Nice way for the rest of the field to alienate Dean supporters

Dumb asses. :eyes:

[TrueAmerican]

69. That is right

I wish the mods would lock this thread.

[Lady President]

70. No win situation

There was no possible way to answer the question. It was a total set-up. The possibilities:

1. Raise hand = the candidate endorses Dean and doesn't have their heart in the race

2. Don't raise hand = the candidate doesn't support the Party and is egotistical

Also, at the time of the question there was no way to know that they would all get a minute to explain their answer. I fully expected two or three to discuss why they didn't raise their hand, but not to focus on it for so long.

The debate was horrible from beginning to end. :(

[johnnyInc]

71. I agree...

For any of the other candidates to raise their hand would have meant that they believed that Dean will be the nominee instead of them. Logic 101 - in order to beat Bush, Dean would have to beat them first. So saying that Dean can beat Bush is the same as saying Dean can beat them. If the question was posed in a different way, like "Do you believe the Democratic nominee will beat Bush?" I think you would have seen every hand fly up.

Just MHO.