Presidential Thread #4.

[robsul82]

Put it all HERE, guys.

Later.

RJS

[robsul82]

1. *kick*

Later.

RJS

[askew]

66. Tonight's Debate

Tonight's debate was pretty meaningless between the stupid questions and having 9 debaters to split the time. I wish they could do some sort of random selecting of 4 candidates for each debate to make them more meaningful.

As for the actual debate, I thought CMB did a great job, she is actually my second choice. And I thought Dean did a good job also. I actually loved his comment about Gore in the beginning, his answer on Iraq and trying to bring the debate around to domestic issues.

I was pretty disappointed with Kucinich tonight. He came across as smug to me. And I really had a problem with his Iraq plan on pulling out our troops immediately. It seemed to really be unrealistic. I don't understand how we can expect the U.N. to clean up the mess we made in Iraq without any of our troops. I also don't understand how he thinks he is going to accomplish this. Why would other countries want to put their troops in danger, when we aren't willing to do the same? Dean's plan seems to be much more realistic to me. Pull out one of our reserve groups and a form an international coalition similar to GWI that would allow U.S. troops presense to slowly pull out over time. While I am a Dean supporter, I am willing to vote for anyone but Bush in the election. However, I am really not understanding DK's reasoning on his plan. And it seems Sharpton has this same plan? Can someone explain this reasoning to me?

[Terwilliger]

2. Kerry needs to hit home runs from here on out

*tick* *tock* Mr. Senator...

[robsul82]

4. He just said...

"We can't dis other countries." WTF?

Later.

RJS

[TennesseeWalker]

8. Yep..."dis"

To go along with "fuck". :)

[robsul82]

9. Wow.

"Dis" and "fuck." Someone really DID rent Bulworth.

Later.

RJS

[Terwilliger]

12. YA HEARD!

peace

[Terwilliger]

5. Interesting!

Summit of world religious leaders...hmmm

[uhhuh]

3. Classy move Kerry

Just cut off Ted's attept to cut off Carol's aswer.

[Rainbowreflect]

26. I thought that was very classy as well.

[Patriot_Spear]

6. Kerry quotes PNAC Bible, 'Clash of Civilizations'- ugh.

A very questionable book.

[maddezmom]

7. Kerry is really impressing me tonight,

[Moderator]

10. C-SPAN Debate Thread Nos. 1, 2 and 3 Here:

GD - C-SPAN Debate Thread #1

GD - C-SPAN Debate Thread #2

GD - C-SPAN Debate Thread #3

[Kathleen04]

11. Glad Dean turned it back to domestic issues...

Koppel seemed kind of offended, well, good. ;)

[Goldmund]

14. I think what we just saw there

-- "we can argue all we want about Iraq, but it's really all about jobs" -- was the beginning of Dean's general election campaign.

I'm not saying that the race is over, I'm simply pointing out the likely motivation behind this turn of discussion by Dean.

[ozone_man]

67. Exactly my response.

Way too much talk on Iraq and very little on more important issues like jobs, health care, education, environment. We've got to sharpen the debates and focus on domestic issues, so we can clobber Bush when the time comes.

To be fair, they all touched on this some, but not enough. Dean made a clean break away from Iraq and his reaction to spending most of the time talking about Iraq annoyed Koppel.

[Gloria]

13. Edwards doing a great job on showing the relationship between

Bush and the lobbyists/industry. Cheney writing energy policy behind closed doors, etc.

Very little applause for a VERY CRITICAL issue!! Wake up, America!!

[beyurslf]

17. BIG LOSER TONIGHT:

Ted Koppell

[kayleybeth]

Edwards did well tonight.

He is very Clintonesque. I like it.

[belab13]

60. edwards made some great points (corporate welfare) etc..

I like this guy. If Deano (i'll take Kerry over Dean) turns out to be the front runner, I think Edwards would make an excellent running mate.

[Terwilliger]

15. Gephardt...he's ...there

trying his best

[kayleybeth]

16. DRINK!

Gephardt just mentioned that he grew up poor and his dad was a milk man.

[robsul82]

18. "Just like Howard said."

Dean and Clark are volleying back and forth. Good.

Later.

RJS

[milkyway]

19. You're right, Ted, you didn't spend the first 45 min on Iraq. You spent...

it on the f*cking horserace! All you asked about was endorsements, polls, and fundraising.

[VolcanoJen]

20. Guys, if you can, PLEASE turn off sig graphics, for our dial-up friends!

Be phriendly!

:-)

[Jim Sagle]

64. They can turn it off themselves.

[Rooktoven]

70. But Mozilla rocks. Pass that on..

Sorry for the OT, but gotta respond...

[TennesseeWalker]

21. Clark is brilliant.

And I like the way he shows respect to Howard Dean, who seems to be a little off tonight. Clark is talking about the future....and I think there will be a future with Clark somewhere in the mix.

[robsul82]

25. Honestly...

I don't know where this "Dean is off" stuff is coming from. He's fine. He's not doing anything revolutionary.

Later.

RJS

[SahaleArm]

29. He got some awful questions. *nm*

[MIMStigator]

34. Clark is clearly the most presidential

n/t

[democracy eh]

69. clark's questions and assorted random thoughts

I only saw the first bit of the debate, but it always frustrates me when they only ask Clark the National Security/Foreign policy questions, Granted, he answers them with authority, but there is more to the candidate than just Iraq and Russian nukes. and the General just isn't the golden tongued politician that can craft the answer he wants to fir any question asked.

Did I see right, did Wes reach over and shake DK's hand after DK's Iraq statement?
I would love it if those two got together a bit. a few mutual compliments here or there. would do wonder's for the other's campaign.

I found DK ripping the Robot a new one very amusing.

I expected Dean to be a bit more hepped up given the endorsement, but hell, he had a big day - Iowa, Harlem, NH. man I don't know how these guys do it.

Clark looked tired too, but he was great on Crossfire.

will watch it on repeat

[Terwilliger]

Clark...

also trying

Is the atmoshpere tense?

UH OH! JOE, JOE!

[Cush]

22. This Debate is a Disaster

wasted 45 minutes on polls, money and endorsements

[Patriot_Spear]

28. It has been less than satisfying... Lieberman just plain stinks. n/t

[TennesseeWalker]

35. 9 candidates in a debate is too much.

I really don't know what else to do, since they're all good folks, but no one can get a real point across. Plus, all the attacks on each other don't really help the cause.

Al Gore is right about one thing: we've GOT to rally around a candidate and support him whole-heartedly soon. We need to get rid of Bush and Company. Our survival depends on it. I'll gladly take anyone on that stage over Bush.

[NashVegas]

56. The Good Thing About 9 Candidates

Is that people watching the debates get to hear 9 voices and see 9 faces telling them how Bush is fucking up.

[kerry-is-my-prez]

58. 3 or 4 candidates would be fine... The bottom 3 or 4 should drop out

n/t

[rbnyc]

42. I'm glad they talked about that.

A lot of people have made up their minds based on those things. They need to be exposed.

Dennis Kucinich and Al Sharpton aswered those concerns very well.

[in_cog_ni_to]

23. Clark

got to get rid of bush. We have a turnaround plan for America. Need pragmatic leadership. I'll get us out of Iraq and do more here at home. He WILL!

[Myra]

32. Why won't you turn off your graphics out of consideration for others!?!

As requested repeatedly!

[arcos]

24. Lieberman.... yawwwwnnnnnnnn n/t

[maddezmom]

27. Clark is right, we all can find fault w/ the current admin

it's what these guys ( and gal) are planning to do about it that makes the difference. And I'm sure there is common ground with all our candidates.

edited: to add gal...no disrespect to CMB. :)

[xultar]

30. UN IN US OUT!!! go DK n/t

[in_cog_ni_to]

Kucinich

hitting Dean on "being tired of talking about Iraq"...it's all connected. Go Dennis!

[Indiana_Dem]

31. Go Kucinich! He said it all!

[Terwilliger]

33. GO DENNIS!!!

YES!!! :bounce:

"The end of fear and the beginning of hope in America"

[slinkerwink]

36. GREAT answer by Dean!!! Way to frame the debate back to domestic issues!

Ugh, it was disgusting how almost all the time was spent on the military.

[SahaleArm]

47. Spent 45 minutes talking about polls and endorsements.

What a waste :puke:

[slinkerwink]

53. I agree-----stupid moderators! and there was too much on iraq also

saw your guy didn't even get a decent domestic issue question.

[SahaleArm]

55. Should have been a 50/50 split with no endorsement/poll crap *nm*

[Gloria]

37. Kuckinish rebuts Dean...Yes, it IS about Iraq---because of the money

that we're spending there and how it affects our domestic spending agenda...

Kucinich, bless him, is really the true man of the people....

[ozone_man]

68. Well, Dean has always been against the war,

and giving Bush a blank check for more. Although I agree in principle with Kucinich on pulling out and letting the U.N. take over, the realization of this may not be so easy. Dean indicated that we have to have stability first, before we leave. As much as I hate anymore U.S. presence in Iraq, I'm afraid that we're sort of stuck there a bit longer, thanks to those that voted for IWR.

[drfemoe]

38. The funniest response ..

Ted asks Kerry to "talk about Dean" ..
Kerry says .. "what if I don't want to" ..
HEEEHAAAWW

EDIT: AND HE DIDN'T !!

[Myra]

39. Rev Sharpton ended things on HIS terms-with wit and truth!

BURNED Koppell!

[SahaleArm]

43. Sharpton!!!!!

Giving Koppel the business :spank:

[Patriot_Spear]

40. Sharpton is killing me... lol

The man is indomitable!

[in_cog_ni_to]

41. Ted sucked!

Sharpton just said something about Koppel not being as high in the polls as SNL! Haha! Good one Sharpton.

[greyl]

44. Sharpton finishes big!

Ted says "sometimes it helps to have someone up here who can tick you off, you guys are better when you're angry"
Al: "Thanks Ted, and even though you don't have the ratings of SatNight Live, I still showed up"

(a dig at ted's relentless q's about polls)

edit: then Ted said "That's correct. Goodnight"

~The end~

:)

[drfemoe]

48. okay .. that's the funniest n/t

:bounce:

[democracy eh]

71. Ted Koppel is a robot!

Smartline

[Terwilliger]

45. Sharpton does it again!!!!!

Glad he came to the debate even though it didn't get the ratings of Saturday Night Live :D

It ended the show, there was no time left and it was positive...unlike the debate.

[PDittie]

46. Winners? Kucinich, Kerry...who else?

[Terwilliger]

51. Edwards was competent

that's the best I can say...Kerry was presidential

I agree on Kucinich...CMB kept her composure

Clark did ok...Dean did ok...

Lieberman...Gephardt...they were the real hangers on, nothing against them

[SadEagle]

61. Partially agree

Edwards sort of turned me off by the repeated "I am an outsider because I am young and inexperienced" thing, and a bit too much schmoozing on other questions. He has enough strengths other than personality and youths to turn in this direction, I think.

Kerry definitely looked strong and presidential, and not letting Koppel interrupt CMB was a class move. However, I think he should have said /something/ positive about Dean when asked, before moving on to the other issue. Yeah, it's an awful question and I agree w/his response on where he would want the moderator to put it, but not doing a single token praise also struck me as a bit low.

Also agree on Dean and Clark --- both doing solid but not special. Which I guess suits both of them.

Gep impressed me w/his answer about talking about addressing root causes of terrorism, but I found him flat in other spots, and his delivery was very weak.

Lieberman... Well, he gets some of my respect for sticking to the types of positions which wouldn't give him any votes from the base. But guess what? They mean he is not going to get any votes from the base. Sorry, Joe. You're just not a candidate for this race.

Sharpton has great sense of humor, and Kucinich was very good about rebuking Koppel, but they didn't really get much of a chance to stand out on more substantial things...

CMB? Well, she was good, but her thing about women and whitehouse got a bit repetitive to me, but hey, I can't blame her.

At any rate, I'd personally say there is no winner here, as there was frankly too little substance for candidates to distinguish themselves, and the main line was really between the block that wants slower withdrawal from Iraq vs. the one that wants a quicker one, and even that is to a large extent rhetoric.

The main looser is whatever is left of Koppel's credibility.

[milkyway]

49. The other mod asked Dean a question that should not be asked in a...

format where a reply is expected immediately. He asked (paraphrasing) "Can you think of anytime when it is justified for the President to lie to the American people?" Dean was knocked back a bit, but fouled it off o.k. by regrouping and saying only when lives are at stake. I would love to hear the same exact question asked of Bush! Even if they gave him all day to think of an answer that wouldn't cost him his job.

[NashVegas]

57. I Disagree .. Kinda

Although I think the local guy maybe borderline Freeper, this is something that anyone who wants to be President needs to think about.

What would have been smart of Dean was to bring up the example of Coventry, England, and how the Brits allowed Hitler to bomb the town, rather than give away the fact they'd broken his code and could intercept messages.

[DancingBear]

63. Re: WMUR reporter

I think I remember him from my years in NH - never struck me as way right of center, though- - just a guy trying to make a name for himself. Any natives have a thought on this?

[DancingBear]

59. Why shouldn't that be asked?

He asked a very tough question that required the ability to think quickly on one's feet. I feel it was designed to "test" Dean's competence in the foreign policy arena (the answer should have been centered around the need to walk the fine and honest line between witholding sensitive information vs. the need to inform the populace). Dean answered it very poorly.

The time to ask Bush this question is during the debates - if the mods won't do it the candidate should.

You're not suggesting the questions be scripted, are you? :)

[Jim Sagle]

65. Dean's answer was OK. Thank you for spinning.

[robsul82]

50. Do you see that!

There was some guy outside the Hall with a Dean sign taped to his chest waving a Confederate flag. Sickening.

Later.

RJS

[ALago1]

52. I saw that!

I think I saw him get chased off by some official too.

It was pretty clever, albeit inappropriate

[milkyway]

54. Is this the first time Kerry didn't spend most of his time bitching...

about Dean? He did real well tonight. Too bad he ran one of the worst campaigns in American history. While the voters were worried about what's happening in America in 2003, for most of his campaign Kerry seemed obsessed about what happened in Vermont in 1993.

[kentuck]

62. past tense? "he ran one of the worst campaigns..."

The campaign is still going on.

[mitchum]

72. What pretty feathers you have!

would you like a cracker now?

[bvar22]

73. and the REAL LOSER tonight?????

Ted Koppel & his Little Friend.

I was proud of ALL our candidates, especially when they rebuffed Ted and his assshole questions and kept the focus on the ISSUES (the crowd enthusiastically agreed.)

DK was ON FIRE, and speaks for me,
and I love Rev. AL (who also speaks for me).

Clark is charismatic, but scares me. Doesn't seem to have ANY answers to domestic issues and always twists everything around back to the War...but I gotta admit he is strong on that issue.. Where does he stand on NAFTA, Labor Unions, Corporate Welfare, CFR, corporate lobbying...?

I STRONGLY endorse DK as the best represenative of my progressive values, but after tonight, I could see voting for Dean as a compromise.



All our candidates did well (even Holy Joe), and tonight was refreshing.