Three Random Comments About the Debate

[DoveTurnedHawk]

1) Clark dodged that question about accepting a Clinton endorsement. Is something in the works?

2) What was UP with that question to Dean about is it ever OK to lie? It smells like a classic setup to me.

3) I can't believe the stupid Moderators of that debate. Not only did their questions suck, they didn't even give all of the candidates a closing statement!

DTH

[mmonk]

1. pretty much my thoughts as well.

[Rowdyboy]

2. About your comments

1) The same thing crossed my mind

2) The same thing crossed my mind

3) What a farce. I'm so glad that PARTICULARLY Kerry and Kucinich tore into Koppel! And Sharpton's closing dig was classic. I'm very proud of our candidates and disgusted by Ted Koppel.

[DoveTurnedHawk]

5. We're on the Same Page Again

It's eerie, man. :-)

DTH

[Zomby Woof]

3. 3 more random thoughts

1. Dennis ripped Koppel a new hole, and then some. It was the most excited I have ever gotten during a presidential debate, intraparty or otherwise, and I have watched them for 24 years.

2. Clark's answer on how to handle Iraq smelled like Vietnam all over again, with his comment that we can't accept "retreat or defeat". Holy shit! When we will ever learn? Clark was there, and should know better, but alas, he does not. Plus, his answer got all bogged down in bureaucratic jargon and was convoluted as all hell. You won't win over voters talking like THAT. That is one reason I have opposed his candidacy - we don't need more Pentagonese-speakers in the White House or steering policy. I also noticed the Clinton endorsement dodge, but saw it as just that - a dodge.

3. Koppel was never worth a damn, and I am sorry it took some people over 20 years to see that. Retire, Ted.

[DoveTurnedHawk]

4. Agree on 1 and 3

Disagree on 2. :-)

DTH

[Zomby Woof]

11. fair enough, lol

I approach every debate with a clean slate - acknowledging that each campaign has its own pace, and feel. Clark has been out there a while now, and I am watching to see how his campaign evolves. I tried watching him from the perspective of the unsold, undecided voter. All content aside, I felt his answer on Iraq had a maze-like quality. Will he have won over anyone with it? I don't know. In fairness to Clark supporters, I will leave that to the voters, as it should be.

I want EVERY Dem (though Lieberman really tests me) to have a chance, even if I disagree with them. I want us to win when all this shouting is over.

[DoveTurnedHawk]

13. Clark Is an Intelligent Man Who Can Appear to Ramble Sometimes

He's getting better at "the sound bite" but he still needs work.

On Iraq, I will definitely say that he didn't appear be answering the question at first, until the VERY end when he quickly brought it all together (about buying oil on the world market), thus pre-empting Koppel's obvious, "You haven't answered my question yet" follow-up.

I think he did a good job on that question, although if he hadn't wrapped it all up at the end, I'd probably be agreeing with you right now.

DTH

[Zomby Woof]

21. yeah, he had some good points in there

I could pick out a few sound ideas. And no way in hell would I doubt his intelligence. They don't hand out Rhodes scholarships like candy. You EARN those. I may have some disagreements with Clark and where he stands, but his intelligence is beyond question.

[corporatewhore]

9. agree with you on2 Support the troops bringem home!!

My dad will be redeployed in 2005 under dean clark kerry or bush
i dont think that we would leaving a mess fo iraq after france helped us win liberation from england they did not keep us under occupation and only give contracts to their buddies.

[Bombtrack]

10. Clark probably understands foriegn policy better than all of the

PNACers AND cut-and-run far-leftists combined

He exudes that understanding in any reponse to foriegn policy questions and he has 2 masters degrees to back it up.

[SahaleArm]

18. Bomb are you still with Edwards?

Or are you coming over to the Clark-side:)?

[Bombtrack]

20. I'm basically for both of them

I think that the polipundit post, telling the Dean-contributing RWer's to now switch to Kerry(so he can knock off a strong Clark showing in NH) and Edwards(so can stop a Clark win in SC) is what did it for me. That that is the GOP's gameplan and hope, to devide the anti-Dean democrats and weaken them.

I think only Clark, unless something big changes, can win AZ, NM, OK, IN ADDITION to getting second or third in NH and winning SC, which Edwards and Kerry can't

[Mattforclark]

6. Clark is going off about the environment

on C-Span right now. It's such a shame that the media only ever asks him about Iraq. - random comment

[mmonk]

7. yep

that's frustrating. He's got alot to say about all the issues.

[Zomby Woof]

12. we can blame Koppel

As Dennis said, the media wants to drive the direction of the campaigns, and I would add that they tailor it for each candidate. They ignore Clark on the other issues at the disservice of the voters.

[Mattforclark]

14. That's true

DK is right on. Props to him for taking on Koppel.

[JNelson6563]

8. ditto times 3

:yourock:

[Toucano]

15. I have heard

second hand from Little Rock that a big endorsement is pending. There was no indication who would be making the endorsement. Absolutely none.

I thought it would be Jesse Jackson because I think it's too early for the Clinton's to get involved.

Maybe it's John McCain? LOL!

[Julien Sorel]

19. I would be shocked if the seniorJesse Jackson went

into open conflict with his son. There's already been some hurt in that family with the affair, plus, it would open up some wounds within the party and the black community. And then there's the Sharpton factor. I think JJ has made it as clear as he can whom he favors (I'm pretty certain he has some of the same issues with Dean I do), but I'd be surprised to see him issue an endorsement of anyone except Dean. Probably, he'll just stay in the background, however.

[OKNancy]

16. #1 Something in the works

I think so too. Do you read the Clark blog? Some of the connected ones are dropping hints. I speculated it was a huge 4th quarter money total. Maybe it's something else.

[creativelcro]

17. agreed.

[yellowdawgdem]

22. more thoughts on the debate

Yeah, good observations. I agree the Dean question was a set up, and that's why he got such a funny look on his face trying to answer it. then people criticize him for stumbling around, but really the question was totally hostile.
On Clark, it's obvious that he has the endorsement of the Clintons, but they just aren't saying it outright. Maybe that's a better way of doing it, Gore is really taking a risk to endorse Dean publicly. It could help him, but it will definitely create lots of waves.
I was shocked at Ted koppel's outright hostility toward the dem candidates, and his questions were as though uttered from Karl Rove's mouth. And then, he got his feelings hurt when they threw a couple of punches back at him. What did he expect, I mean, why can't these people arrange having a decent moderator and normal questions?
I guess this shows what we are up against: the media will always support the bush admin., and they have the edge with all of the weird voting stuff as well. I even had a difficult time finding the debate, it's not like when republicans are on, and they have it on every station. More and more I am considering having my television disconnected and becoming a luddite.

[joanski01]

23. I am angry as hell

about Ted Koppel's questions. It felt to me that Koppel had gotten a message from Rove to not ask any questions, the answers to which would make bush* look bad. Where was the Medicare discussion? I thought they were supposed to let bush* have it during this debate.

Another thought? Is this a precursor of how the debates with bush* will be. Koppel, or someone like him, asks the Dem nominee tough questions, and the Chimp gets the softball questions. And the candidates are not allowed to talk to each other.

I'm sick of everything!!!! Maybe I'll go hide in a cave until the end of the world.

[Skidmore]

24. What was the deal with Edwards all of a sudden incessantly

referring to himself as an "outsider". Isn't he a Senator? I think the only person on the stage that hasn't been an "insider" is Dean. Everyone else has worked in Washington and in government. I found that constant reference jarring and disingenuous (sp?) and he might think about dropping that little schtick.

[AnnitaR]

28. I thought that constant line from him was a mistake!

Nobody thinks of him as the "outsider".

John whoever is telling you that you are is mistaken. Stick to the "I'm from a poor family" stuff.

[AP]

30. If you measure outsiderness by a combination of two things:

(1) whether your policies are friendly to the insiders, and

(2) how long you've been in politics (and there's a high correlation between these two things),

then Edwards is the biggest outsider, followed by DK and AS.

[VermontDem2004]

25. Here are my 3

1)I didn't watch the debate.

2)I didn't want to watch the debate.

3)The reason, they are all the same, every debate I have seen Dean gives his lines, Gephardt and Edwards always give their life stories. Only Sharpton basically has something new to say without repeating stuff he has been saying for months like the other candidates.

[yellowdawgdem]

26. media thoughts

Yeah, I agree (with angry as hell). It does seem possible that the media will arrange the bush debates to somehow denigrate the dem candidate. But you know, in spite of Koppel's weirdness, I have to admit I enjoyed watching everybody hang together a little bit, and yell at Koppel about his lame questions, etc. It was somewhat enjoyable, definitely more than if they had gone along with the spin. In a way, I don't really care who gets the nomination, just let it roll.

[AnnitaR]

27. The Dean question pissed me off bad!

I'm not a Deanie... but that question was clearly a loaded question.

When we find out what the reason for it is, we ALL should raise hell about it to Ted Koppel and ABC. That is NOT something that should ever be done during any debate.

I had the same look on my face as Howard did! :wtf:

I am appalled at the way this debate was conducted by the moderators.

[frustrated_lefty]

29. The "when is it ok to lie" question

I think was in reference to Clinton denying having sex with Lewinsky....it was intended to give Dean a chance to hop on the soapbox and either criticize Bush for going to Iraq, or, instead, to explain how his administration would be different from Clinton's, morally. Just a guess.

[DUJunkie]

31. My question is this.

Were the moderators chosen by the DNC??