I've never seen so much handwringing at DU

[realFedUp]

You'd think that Bush is actually a strong opponent.
He and his administration have practically destroyed
this country and people are well aware of it.

Dr. Dean is a good man, doctor, family man and governor
for 12 years, leaving the state fiscally solvent.
He's educated, well traveled, and a real compassionate person, unlike the occupant in the WH. His stands reflect what most DUers appreciate: opposition to the invasion of Iraq, oppositon to the
Patriot Act, questioning 9/11, producing a grassroots campaign
that has energized many new voters, a genuine understanding
of the medical field and a determination to install a good healthcare plan for all, paying off national debts, repairing diplomatic
relationships, working for a Middle East peace...
basically fixing everything that Bush broke, borrowed or
bludgeoned.

I am a Dean supporter and I feel like I have to
apologize in here for liking him and his policies. There
is nothing about Dean to apologize for...he's a good
and decent man who has served his patients, family and his
state well for a long time.

I can understand the disappointment that other candidate's
supporters are feeling...I expected Gore to endorse someone
else frankly and that would have been fine, because it's
Dean's supporters who are the heat fueling this campaign
and we intend supporting him whoever decides to give him
support. It's a nice thing, but it won't make or break this
for us.

I am really unhappy by the name calling of Dean, Dean
supporters and Gore at DU. I understand you want your candidate
to win the nomination...that's fair, but anything less than
the truth about someone just reflects badly on the poster.

In some people's minds, it would be the safe thing to nominate
the tried and somewhat predictable, but so many of us have spent
months online to work for something better, truer, more inline
with what we think and post about daily. I don't want to vote for someone who votes one way and talks another...I want to support someone who talks one way, very plainly and with some real passion
behind the words.

As for the argument that Dean can't win...let's see, over 500,000
people voted for Gore, and that didn't include the Nader votes
or the misplaced votes for Buchanan or any voters fucked up by Diebold or Database. There are more Dems, more new voters and
angry Republicans who will vote for anyone but Bush.
We can do this together if we choose to do it. Dr. Dean
can do this, as did Carter and Clinton.

Don't let the media, DNC or Republicans turn you
to handwringing instead of being proactive. We deserve a strong
and proud America again and we will take our country back.

[slinkerwink]

1. that's why I'm with Dean so far is because I haven't gotten into

wringing my hands...

[Corgigal]

2. Oh let them bash away

then we up our game which is great when we take on the Republicans.
Hell I might consider it foreplay.

Republicans think only they can motivate their base and only they fight to win regardless. It's up to us to teach them we invented the rules.

[Eloriel]

16. I lie your style!

:evilgrin:

[bearfartinthewoods]

39. just please...don't skip the foreplay and remember that somewhere

between 2/3 and 3/4 of dems do NOT prefer Dean as our candidate.

[Eric J in MN]

3. all the Republicans have to say is "Dean will raise your taxes" to win

Unless Howard Dean modifies his tax policies, he'll lose.

[caledesi]

4. Raising Taxes is the OLDEST trick in the book. Hello?

Howard Dean will tell you the truth. If he wants to repeal all *'s tax cuts...go ahead..call it a tax increase. Typical repug style.

[Coldgothicwoman]

5. But thats not accurate, is it?

I believe Governor Dean only wants to repeal the * cuts. Can a Deanie verify that for me?

Thats not raising! :spank:

[WillyBrandt]

11. It does not matter if it is true.

This is fucking show business. It's a cynical, horrible game in which truth bears a tendentious relationship to perception.

The only thing that matters in this whore-media-age is whether the Democratic Product can appeal to more voting people than the Republican one. The truth regarding your product matters only insofar as it affects Joe Simpleton's views of it. With an opponent devoted to deceit, and with enormous resources, and a largely gullible population, you have a long, hard slog.

It's horrible that our democracy as devolved to this, but this is the game that must be played this election. And we must win this game for the sake of the nation and the world.

Can Dean win this game? I think so.

Is he, among our candidates, the one best suited to do so? I do not think so.

[Eloriel]

18. Yep, true n/t

[Demobrat]

23. Yes, that's right.

Or as he says, put them back to Clinton era levels.

[Ficus]

34. if you play word games

like the Republicans DO and WILL, then it's a tax increase. The taxes are at a certain rate now, and if Dean reverses them, then they will go up, in effect causing a tax increase. Yeah, sure, whatever.

[KFC]

35. Only applies to future planned tax cuts

If you repeal tax cuts that have already taken place, then you are raising taxes.

[RevolutionStartsNow]

7. Rebubs are going to use the "raise taxes" scare against ALL of them

Yes, Dean and Gep are the ones saying they would repeal all of the cuts, rather than just part of them, but remember that Bush is attached to ALL of those cuts, and he is going to jump all over ANY of the candidates for "raising taxes."

Dean will have to quickly counter the "raising taxes on middle class" by explaining his tax reform plan and other fiscal plans that will be a better deal for all of us.

[lastliberalintexas]

31. Not even worth trying

I've pointed this out several times (also the same re: civil unions), but it continues to fall on deaf ears. The repubs have a script by which they will attack any of our candidates, and by and large it is the same script. They will modify and tweak it a little bit for each individual, but not by much.

ALL of our candidates will be characterized as a pinko, commie, tax and spend, gay loving, minority friendly, gun grabbing, liberal Dem. It will be up to us to correct the media lies no matter who our nominee is. I'm not sure why it's so hard for some people to see that.

[realFedUp]

9. "Raising taxes"

is just Republican code for not raising taxes
on the people who can really afford to pay them.
If you want services in this country, you have
to pay for them, and frankly people want an
infrastructure that works, a health care plan
that works, schools that work and a supply
of flu vaccine that doesn't run out....we
don't want to pay for an invasion and said rebuild
of our destruction.

Every single Dem will have to come up with
ways to pay off the enormous debts incurred
by this administration and it won't be with
bake sales.

[quaker bill]

10. Dated thinking

People here, a historic conservative stronghold, voted to put more taxes on themselves because they wanted better schools. People in the adjacent red county voted more taxes on themselves to purchase lands for environmental preservation.

[pruner]

14. George Bush will raise your taxes too

all his tax cuts expire between 2008-2010.

[Demobrat]

22. Dean will come up with his own tax plan

for the general. Don't worry about that.

[QC]

6. 90% of the discussion of Dean here is very positive,

and all of the candidates take some knocks.

I think your own handwringing is very unwarranted.

[realFedUp]

17. You must not be seeing the threads I am

course I do need glasses...

[depakid]

8. Wow- it only took 3 posts for the RNC's no-tax meme to come up!

Usually it takes at least 10-15 more.

[fabius]

12. Amen, Brother.

Dean is a great candidate and will Kick ass!

And if he doesn't win the nomination for any reason there are other strong candidates in the field. I'll support any of them.

George Bush never won the Presidency. Why does anybody think he's a strong candidate?

If you believe the meme about "tough Texans vs. effete New Englanders" try this:

Rent the movie "Gettysburg".

"New England professor" Joshua Chamberlain and 350 others (from Maine), outnumbered and running out of ammo, kick the living crap out of an assortment of Southern boys from Alabama and Texas on Little Round Top. Chamberlain rose to be a general in command of a brigade; his command was the honor guard at Lee's surrender. Laer governor of Maine.

Also remember those guys named Kennedy.

Don't discount New England toughness. Dean's got it. Toughness, strategy, tactics, instincts. I'm in!

[realFedUp]

19. actually it's Amen, Sistah!

but thanks for the sentiment. :-)

[Punkingal]

13. Hi, realFedUp...

Great post!!!:hi:

[realFedUp]

15. Hey PG

thanks!

[Pastiche423]

20. Not everyone is handwringing

A lot of people are putting their hands in their wallets to support Dean.

[realFedUp]

21. lol

yes, indeedy. Batter up.

[foo_bar]

24. time to retire that bat

It's not even baseball season anymore. How about a massive syringe?

[AndyTiedye]

28. Because The FIX IS IN, So We Need a Landslide

> George Bush never won the Presidency. Why does anybody think he's a strong candidate?

Because he DOES NOT HAVE TO WIN IT! He didn't have to last time.
He only has to not lose by a landslide.
It only has to be close enough so that people will accept it when he steals it again.

Ask former Senator Cleland how many votes they can steal.

If he is obviously down 2-1 or more, then an attempt to steal the
election might get the Shevardnadze treatment.

[angee_is_mad]

25. what about the deanies?

What about the name-calling that the deanies use when someone has an opposite opinion or candidate from their own. Lord knows I have been a victim of the DEANIES!
One such person basically called me stupid one time for sharing my bad experience at a Dean meetup this summer. Fortunately, I have a thick skin and brushed it off.I am intelligent enough to realize not to brush the whole organization with the taint of one(two) bad apple.

[TexasSissy]

26. Nah....you're a Dean supporter?

I really couldn't tell, based on your objective, unbiased opinion of the candidate. Er...I mean candidates. Just kidding. But there IS more than one candidate at this time, and truth is,the majority of the registered Dems in the country either support the other candidates or are undecided. The latest poll I saw had Dean and Clark each at 15% nationally. (That was before the Gore endorsement, so that may change.) Dean has a few more hands to shake until the prize is his (and it may be his, who knows).

But the handwringing over the Gore news was not against Dean. At least not most of what I read and heard. It was the timing of it and the circumstances surrounding the endorsement. And apparently there's some feud going on between the Clintons and Gore, and Gore is still sore over the way he was treated by the Dem. insiders after he lost the 2000 election. I'm hearing all this, and I don't know how to sort it all out. We all will vote for whoever we think is the best person. The kind of people who post to websites and watch debates are proactive, by nature, I think.

[frank frankly]

27. yep, yes, oh yeah

great post and right on

:hi:

[Skwmom]

29. Dean is the Democratic version of George Bush

I want a president I can be proud of. Dean is dishonest, mean spirited, and a phony. I don't need the RNC to tell me this. I only had to look at Dean's record and his own statements and repeated inconsistencies.

There are many Republicans who will praise Bush for being a good and decent man. Obviously, delusion is not exlusive to one party.

[realFedUp]

30. it would be good if you cited actual reasons

for the names you are calling Dean.
It's easy to call names, but backing them
with proof is an altogether different argument.

[Monte Carlo]

32. Bush will be a VERY STRONG opponent.

I think it is quite dangerous to underestimate him, because when I say Bush, I mean him, his entire Administration, the leaders of both houses of Congress, Fox News, Limbaugh, Hannity, and many, many of their other friends in TV, radio, and print. Between all of them, they will have a great ability to frame the debate in the election in THEIR terms, and not all of us are confident that Dean has what it takes to counter all that. I can tell you that my concern is genuine, and not just media hype.

[realFedUp]

33. It's also dangerous to OVERESTIMATE his support

Any Republicans I know are shaking their heads
at what's happening now to our country and they
won't be re-selecting him.

We have the votes on our side, if we register
voters and there is a strong coalition behind
the one nominee.

[eissa]

36. Great post

Agree wholeheartedly. The handwringing will do us in. When we have democrat "leaders" bashing candidates, that's a problem. When candidates bash the elected democratic US president, that's a problem. Bush CAN lose, and lose easily. ANY of our candidates should be able to beat him; his own record will do him in. The question is wheather the democrats will be able to get their act together and mount a strong, well-organized campaign that will go on the offense instead of reacting all the time.

[realFedUp]

37. thanks

nice to get some affirmations every once in awhile
for posted opinions.

Dean has shown he has the strongest campaign in place,
using all the grassroots groups in addition to paid
staffers in all states, raising the most money in
smaller donations. Dean can win because his campaign
works.

[John_H]

38. Maybe you can awnwer the questions I've posed in many threads

with no response.

Why do so many media whores--people who've been the subject of so much justified derision on DU for years--suddenly have credibility now that they "like" or "fear" Dean?

Why does bush-voting Tweeety lavish praise on Dean? Why does Frank Lunz continually say his focus groups have Dean winning every debate? Why does Bill Cristol write columns professing to be afraid of Dean? (Do you think he'd write a column on it before the primary if he really thought Dean could win? Really?) Why do Fox news pundits call Dean's nomination inevitable every chance they get?

There seem to be two choices. First, that these people have suddenly stopped becoming the GOP operatives they have proven to be over and over and are now objective, fair, and accurate journalists; or second, that they have ulterior motives?

Which is it?

[rslag]

40. I’m afraid Dean is finished nationally

Dean lost the South when he took Gore into the fold.

The South is more galvanized against Gore now than they were in 2000.

Looks like he choked the national election before he even won the primaries.

But tomorrow is a new day.

[DUJunkie]

41. Dean will LIE

TO the AMERICAN people, said so himself.......

[PVnRT]

42. And you, of course, have a quote from a reputable source

that backs this up, right?

[DUJunkie]

43. from the horses mouth himself,

last nights debate......