GLBT people or GLBT supporters what do you think about this poster?

[La_Serpiente]

I was over at the VH1 Totally Gay Message Boards and came across this poster. Tell me what you think about him.

I'm Homophobic

VH1 did a great job cramming the Gay agenda down our throat.
As usual, people who support moral and traditional values are labled the following: Religous Right (VH1 accompanied this with a picture of Bush); Homophobic; Uneducated; Hate-speaker; Extreme Right; Dumb

The reality is that the MAJORITY of the public could care less. Gays need to do their own thing. Most of us "homophobes" have gay friends and respect their gay lifestyle. However, this does not mean that we support and endorse it. We view it as a deviant behavior... and no amount of noise from that community is going to change it. In all actuality, the more noise the pro-gay movement makes... the further we "traditionalists" entrench.

The 2% of the population that are making the noise... need to be quiet. There are larger problems to focus on in the world today.

link here

I don't believe in what he says. However, there are people out there that are straight, have gay friends, but don't like homosexual behvaiour. Santorum claims to be this kind of person (although we know it is *cough*cough* BULLSHIT). Yet also, I feel that a lot of people on the right do not hold this view. I think they actually hate homosexuals like how whites hated blacks pre-Civil Rights.

So how would you respond to this kind of person? How would you try to convince the person that what he/she is thinking is wrong? I think it is possible to change their minds because ideas can always change in a lifetime.

[David__77]

1. I don't have friends who disapprove of homosexuality.

It's litmus test for me. If someone doesn't volunteer their view, I seek it out. I had one friend who used to believe, as a Christian, that homosexuality was a "sin." She has since changed her thinking. I steer clear of people too immersed in bigotry. I will be their acquaintance certainly, but "friendship" is reserved for those who can really be supportive of my as a friend. Those who would condemn my marriage to a man don't fit into that category.

Also, I wonder what these bigots will say when the "majority" is clearly not on their side, so to speak. Will they shift into condemnation of America as an immoral country, as "God Hates Fags" Fred Phelps has done? I think some will. Already, the so-called defenders of "Western civilization" are balking at the gains for gay and lesbian people, which are certainly centered in the West. They pine for a feudal order more likely to be found in Iran than America. There is indeed a Taleban wing of conservatism in this country.

The majority will come to accept homosexuality as a phenomenon that should not be condemned and will accept their lesbian and gay neighbors and their relationships as valid. We are already seeing the demographic shift age-wise. Theirs is a losing battle and some of them know it. In an open society, there is no other option but further advances for the gay freedom movement. As with previous movements, this one too will advance forward.

[bearfartinthewoods]

12. my parents would fit in that category.

even though they 'adopted' a gay guy, not legally but emotionaly and fiscally, in part. he had huge issues with his family and our family took him in. also they did the same for my best friend whenever he needed a place to stay away from his father who was determined to beat the gay out of him.

but they did not approve of gay sex or the 'gay lifestyle' as portrayed by media. it's the classic hate the sin but love the sinner with them, even though they aren't really religious. the fact that these two guys were gay was never discussed. they were not preachy but in our talks over the years i know how they feel. the fact that they set their own opinions aside in order to help just impresses me no end. they set a high bar of tolerance for me to aim at.

one of those guys has been at our Christmas dinner every year for thirty years. he is still a big part of our family and my best friend is welcome, with his lover whenever the occasion arises.

i don't think the attitude is that rare at all.

[David__77]

2. another note: "Cramming down our throats"

It's not by accident that anti-gay bigot men use analogies of the throat to express their fears of homosexuality. I sometimes wonder what level of psychosexual impotence is involved. I think there is a fear of oral sex going on here because they see it principally as a power relation--when "their woman" performs oral sex on them, they see this at least subconsciously as a form of subservience. You'll always see the "down our throats" term used in the connection, almost always by men only.

[Kerridwyn]

5. Interesting note

Hmm, interesting perspective.

And of course, there are the studies which have been done of homophobic men and control groups of men, showing both groups homosexual pornography, which have found that the homophobic men have a markedly higher level of sexual response to the gay porn than the control group of men.

Never fails to upset homophobes when you bring that one up, heh. :)

[Kerridwyn]

3. Eh

I wouldn't respond to them. Mostly because that kind of thing makes me too angry to respond to without upsetting myself more than it's worth. Basically, viewing behavior as deviant because you don't like it and don't understand it IS prejudice and bigotry. But you'll never convince these people of it. I mean, how can you genuinely respect someone you consider a deviant?

It also pisses me off when they say "There are larger problems to focus on in the world today" - because the problem of prejudice and bigotry and hatred is a pretty darn big one, especially if you're having to deal with it every day.

And I'm not gay, I don't think you have to be for this to piss you off.

[QC]

4. People who lie awake nights fretting over other people's personal lives

are generally immune to reason.

I ignore them when possible, or failing that, give them a good verbal spanking.

[MinnFats]

6. I still would like to know....

.....when and where was that convention when ALL the glbt people got together to approve that "gay agenda." Maybe I wasn't paying close enough attention, because I must have missed it.
Can anyone tell me?
Can I get a copy of the "gay agenda?"
Because I'm still baffled....it's not like all GLBT people are marching in lock step, but everybody keeps referring to that "gay agenda" so they must agree on all issues, right?

it's also interesting to note that this guy, in his very first sentence, refers having something crammed down his throat, an idea that could be freudian, no? I think the ones that complain the loudest about gays go home and make love with their wives....with a very elaborate fantasy in their mind's eye of getting it on with a guy. Just a guess.

[sjohntucson2]

7. Cramming WHAT Gay Agenda?

I dunno, the post you quote is really not saying anything useful. What exactly constitutes cramming an agenda down somebody's throat (yeah, I know, the imagery IS hysterical)? Does this guy not want to hear me talk about where my boyfriend & me went to dinner last night? Does he not want to hear that I support the concept of gay marriage? Does he not want to hear stories about sucking dick in the park? I mean, saying "Gay Agenda" is about as vague as saying "Family Values."

I probably wouldn't respond to this person, cause he's just spouting off some crap he heard but hasn't really thought about, as far as I can see. But if I really felt compelled to, for some reason, I'd start by asking him to define what he meant by "Gay Agenda" and to specify how it's being shoved down his throat, then take it from there. My guess would be that he doesn't really have a clear idea in mind WHAT he's upset with; that he's just spewing words out of his mouth because that's what he thinks a person like himself should say. Sometimes people like this can have their perceptions changed just by forcing them to concentrate on the issue, although more often they just avoid the issue and continue to bluster. At that point, you can pretty much make an informed decision about whether or not they're even worth talking to.

[La_Serpiente]

8. Welcome to DU

:hi:

[newyawker99]

16. Hi sjohntucson2!!

Welcome to DU!! :toast:

[Coldgothicwoman]

9. All the responses I've seen so far are spot on

I don't have an 'agenda'. At least, not one saved to my computer! Don't think I have one in paper either, now that I think about it. Did I get left off the mailing list? :)

One thing I always like to ask these homophobes is why it is that the most virulent of homophobes, in addition to that study about them liking gay pornography, is why it is so pronounced that these very same people love the idea of we lesbians having sex with or in front of them? I still haven't got a real decent answer to that one.

Or why even when they say GLBT, every pronouncement of condemnation is about gay men only?

It all comes back to insecurity for them I think. Just as at least one other poster said. Oh well. C'est la vie, c'est la guerre.

[REP]

11. You Don't Know About The Toaster?

Sheesh. I'm straight and even I know you give toasters to each convert you make to the Gay Agenda.

I just realized I do have a new toaster...

[TeeYiYi]

19. Yes, but is it a TOASTER OVEN? ........n/t

TYY

[xchrom]

10. same knuckle dragging shit, different day

two things
he is sexually warped -- shoving things down peoples throats.
people who are twisted around oral sex{or sex in general} creep me out and i'm afraid of them.
next is the dehumanising effect of his reasoning ''2%'' of the people should shut-up or worse i would guess in his mind. evolved people see gblt folk as part of the natural diversity of human expression. throw backs have violent knee jerk reactions to those they perceive as the ''other''. that way they can oppress and wipe them out even and feel nothing.

[Iverson]

13. one possibility

I'd ask that person whether they think that not liking someone else's lifestyle is a good reason to deprive the other person of equality under the law.

That's pretty basic, although I'm not hopeful that you'll get a coherent reply.

[BiggJawn]

14. He/she had ONE valid point.

"...that the MAJORITY of the public could care less..."

That pretty much sums it up for me. Be Gay. Be Straight. I domn't care, just BE.
The only person's sex life I'm concerned with is ME.

"The 2% of the population that are making the noise... need to be quiet."
Were they referring to the vocal homophobe community?

[bearfartinthewoods]

15. The only person's sex life I'm concerned with is ME

i'd hope you'd extend some concern for your partner's sex live <grin>

[BiggJawn]

17. That is a matter of GRAVE concern for me...

What with this menopause thing and all...:-(

[davidinalameda]

23. being gay is so much more than what one does in bed

and that 2% figure is standard right wing crap

just because someone doesn't identify as gay or lesbian, that doesn't mean that they aren't

[adriennel]

18. keep your beliefs

it is fine to continue with the belief that homosexuality is "deviant behavior" and nothing will change this perception in some people. the problem arises when an individual/organization attempts to force this belief upon the lives of others. you can have your beliefs, I can have mine, but the fact remains that what is going on in this country is pure and simple discrimination. Gay rights ARE civil rights. Asking a segment of the population to shut up because their issues aren't "important" is just insulting and ignorant.
I personally believe that discrimination against individuals based on gender, ethnicity, orientation, class, etc. is a SIN.

[KaraokeKarlton]

20. He's right to a point, but it's really easy to address

Gay rights activists need to get away from the term "gay marriage" and take a bold step. They need to come out and say they respect the church's right to not want to recognize homosexual relationship within the church and respect church autonomy. Call it something different for crying out loud. The whole problem is over the word "marriage". If the gay community can convince the church this is about equal rights and not religion or religious rites this issue can be resolved in a way everyone can live with. There needs to be a productive and cooperative dialogue between gay rights leaders and church leaders to hammer out terminology and statements that both groups can live with and agree on. If that can be done it will put an end to this battle once and for all.

[Terran]

21. The fundamental mistake this person makes...

The reality is that the MAJORITY of the public could care less. Gays need to do their own thing.

This person fails to understand that GLBT people are not allowed to "do their own thing. I would like nothing more than to live my life in more or less the same way as all my fellow citizens, but I'm not allowed by law to do that. And moreover, the creepy republicans in Congress are talking about passing a Constitutional Amendment to make that even more difficult for me to do. So it comes down to this, I'm afraid: given that we're talking about equal rights, the only reason to oppose such a thing for people like me has to be a form of homophobia--call it disgust, dislike, bigotry, whatever--this guy and millions like him simply don't approve of what we are, and will use that as an excuse to deny us our civil rights.

I don't like to compare the struggle for Black civil rights to this situation too much, but there is this parallel--Blacks were denied their rights for so long because so many people simply hated them for what they are. No other reason. It wasn't rational then, and neither is this.

[davidinalameda]

22. nothing new

same old bullshit

these people want us to go back in to the closet and hide and stop demanding our basic civil rights

they want us to stop fighting against discrimination and accept whatever crumbs they give us

I for one refuse to stay quiet

[LeahMira]

24. He probably really feels that way... and should get help for his problem!

I think they actually hate homosexuals like how whites hated blacks pre-Civil Rights.

That's interesting that you make that comparison because I remember reading a quote in The Mismeasure of Man from someone (of course I forget the specifics) who apparently saw his first black man of his life here in the U.S. and was so turned off by the sight that he had a physical reaction to the black man's lips, his fingers, his teeth, everything about him.

I think that some people who think about gay sex have the same sort of physical reaction at just the thought, although if they are over thirteen or so I really can't imagine why. I suppose it's what you are raised with or how you are socialized or whatever. Maybe these folks are saying that they really don't want to know "those kinds of things" about the people they meet and associate with daily. I can understand that, because I don't particularly want to know "those kinds of things" about anyone. Not my business what anyone does with their lover.

At the same time, even while I don't want to know the details of anyone's personal sex life, I have no issue with their civil rights... their right to work, housing, health benefits, or any of the things that I take more or less for granted.

I just wonder why specifically in this case what a person does privately should bear on their access to civil rights. Back when I was teaching, we sometimes had someone who used a wheelchair come in and speak with the kids and answer their questions. To my great embarassment, inevitably one child would ask the visitor if s/he had sex and/or how s/he went to the bathroom. OK, kids are kids for sure. Still, not one child ever expressed the thought that the visitor should be denied equal civil rights just because they had to adapt a bit. I'm not claiming that people who are homosexual are disabled, of course, but I just wonder why they should be treated differently simply because they adapt a bit in their personal lives. And whose concern is it if they do?

Oh well. Put this in the category of life's mysteries...