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dave29 Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Dec-10-03 12:01 PM
Original message
On Rove
Edited on Wed Dec-10-03 12:38 PM by dave29
I posted this a few days ago, but it seems especially relevent today, with so many folks looking to the Repub's Machiavelli for advice on how we chose our candidate.

The Big Bad GOP

I have some advice for all of you. Ignore the GOP until next fall. I don't mean ignore them in the "let them get away with saying whatever they want" sense. I mean ignore the quality of their argument in the sense that they have Karl Rove at the helm of their political ship. In order to beat Rove, you have to understand what's behind the words coming out of his mouth. And by Rove's mouth, I mean the collective mouths of his many, many, many surrogates. Why ignore those words? Because Rove is a spin-master. He is Ari Fliescher on crack. He will do everything in his power to frame the debate. It doesn't matter the sins of his masters, the debate never centers on that - because Rove spins faster than a supermassive black-hole.

Rove's astronomical spin machine already has a good number of you convinced that our worst commander in chief, quite possibly ever, is unbeatable. He has you convinced of this because he is good at his job. Really, really good. Hell, he made George W. Bush President (some might say it's Scalia's fault, but Rove deserves his due) - and that's an accomplishment, for sure. He made a good number of you believe the GOP has a mandate, despite losing the popular vote in 2000. He even has spun relatively small victories in the south (please look away from Louisiana), and a resulting small majority in congress as proof that the GOP is unbeatable. Yes, Karl Rove is worth his weight in gold to the Neoconservative movement.

So how does Rove do it? By any means necessary, really. Mostly though, he likes to play on people's fears. This has been a marketing ploy of the GOP for some time now, yet Rove has taken it to absurd levels never dreamed possible. Who would have thought three years ago, when Al Gore and Democrats decided to give Bush the benefit of the doubt, swallowed hard, and showed bipartisanship after the contentious election - that Rove and company would exploit a national tragedy to push their Neoconservative agenda (can you say "Iraq"?). Well some of us knew, but it's sad that we have to be so cynical. Regardless, Rove, more so than any other in the White House, is responsible for the success of the GOP. He has many convinced that Bush was the great uniter after 9/11. Sorry, Mr. Rove, it was Osama bin Laden that united us, albeit briefly - no thanks to you and your Neocon strategery.

So, what is spin, anyway? You are going to get a different answer from everybody you ask. This, in itself defines spin. The truth is relative to whomever you are asking. Rove, however, likes to play games with his spin on the truth, and is especially adept at sowing doubt in the minds of his adversaries. He does this with "dis"information, and sometimes outright lies. He doesn't want you to see his hand, yet he wants you to believe you have. Using this philosophy to maximum effect, he has created an aura of invincibility, albeit a fake one.

Take for example his known antics. An "accidentally" released campaign strategy disk. A leak here, a leak there (you'd be amazed at the plumbing problems of the GOP). Theories that he had the office of his own candidate bugged (way back in his early Texas days) in order to create the appearance of controversy. He shows up himself at a Fourth of July Parade saying he wants Howard Dean to be the GOP's opponent in 2004. All trademark Atwater tactics Rove has taken to new levels.

With Rove it is always smoke and mirrors. And the most important rule of all... IGNORE HYPOCRISY. This more than anything defines the Neocon movement in so many ways. Just ask true fiscal-conservatives boiling mad over out-of-control spending by the Bush administration - at the same time Neocons in Bush's camp say Howard Dean is a tax-and-spend liberal. All of this, of course, designed to show supposed strength and invincibility. Eventually, if the other side goes along, it becomes a self-fulfilling prophecy. Kudos to the Rove strategy. It works well.

So, how do you fight that?

You don't fight that, you can't. You just smile, point it out, and remind everyone it's dirty politics.

There's a remarkably good analogy for Rove-think, and it comes, unsurprisingly, from the corporate world these folks emerged from. Lets take for example the financial statements of any one of a number of recent corporate power-houses, like Enron. On the surface they look like an unstoppable empire. Dig any deeper, though, and that empire collapses faster than you can say "Ken Lay is a good friend and a top campaign contributor". Aside from being top contributors and subscribers to the current philosophy of Neocon economic policy, many of those at the top of these crumbled empires believed their own spin - that they could get away with whatever they wanted, as long as the people were buying it. It's a miniature version of capitalism gone awry (people will buy whatever you are selling, especially if you are a good salesman) - except that it requires you to forget there are human beings involved, and no matter how good your spin, people eventually catch on.

I'm here to tell you the Bush political machine is an Enron waiting to happen. If it looks like an Enron, talks like an Enron, and acts like an Enron (and we all know it does)... it's probably an Enron. In physics it's called Ockham's Razor. George W. Bush is Ken Lay, and Karl Rove is his marketing guru, painting over the doctoring of the books every day.

There's a reason they describe Bush as a CEO President, it's because he is. It's his style. It's Cheney's style. It's Condi's style. It's Rove's style. Image is everything in the corporate world. Never let them see you sweat. Business is booming. Strength, strength, strength. The arrow is pointing up. We've made up some charts and graphs to prove it.

It's a cut-throat world out there, and Bushco fits right in. Cheney's statement on having to work with "undesirables" in the war on terror sounded more like a secret business strategy than moral leadership. Don Evans speaking of rolling out their Iraq strategy as "new marketing" just before 2002 elections was a rare moment of non-spun corporate truth. Bush's Thanksgiving in Baghdad and Mission Accomplished fiascos made for glowing press releases, but said nothing about the condition of his corporate empire.

So when you get down to it, beneath all the glitz and glamour, George W. Bush's political marketing guru has really only done his CEO one favor (although it will ultimately be his downfall). His immaculate spin has branded Bush as the big bad wolf of politics. A big, scary, tooth-gnashing political beast - charging forward towards corporate dominance and Republican glory.

Yet, start digging (which they will do everything in their power to stop), and you'll find the one thing Karl Rove is afraid of. The fact that his big bad wolf lives in a straw house. And I for one can see the political winds shifting, threatening to blow down that house.

I think America is waking up to the fact that what it needs in these times more than marketing strategies and talking points - is true leadership. What it needs more than carefully crafted image, slogans, soundbytes and spin - is policy based on what's best for ALL Americans - not just one's corporate soulmates. Have we forgotten? The United States of America is not a corporation. It is a country of profound beauty and diversity of people and opinion. We, the people, should not be treated as employees. The country belongs to us. Stop telling us everything is perfect, we know it's not the truth.

To Karl Rove and his super-massive black hole I say this: Stop selling us product. Our country needs a President, not a CEO. Your spin to the contrary is nothing but a big bad bluff.
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impeach the gop Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Dec-10-03 12:06 PM
Response to Original message
1. Bravo
You nailed it. Thanks
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CWebster Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Dec-10-03 12:10 PM
Response to Reply #1
3. Exactly my response
Keep kicking it up to give these neophytes or operatives a clue.
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AlinPA Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Dec-10-03 12:09 PM
Response to Original message
2. I don't consider him invincible, nor do I hold him in awe-
but my belief is that he controls everything that Bush does. Every act. Even the decisions on Iraq and Afghanistan. Everything is done towards making Bush look like a "commander in chief" knowing that Americans, for the most part suck up this patriotic crap. I see his fingerprints on legislation, speeches, everything.
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dave29 Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Dec-10-03 12:16 PM
Response to Original message
4. kick
(shameless variety)
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BiggJawn Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Dec-10-03 12:17 PM
Response to Original message
5. I need a cigarette and a nap after reading this....
Edited on Wed Dec-10-03 12:18 PM by BiggJawn
...And I don't smoke anymore.
Thank you SO much for this!

OK, so Rove is the master of deception, cheerleading and pushing a crappy product. We can agree on that. the NEXT question is, how do we counteract that in this "As seen on TEE-VEE! Ask your Doctor!" consume in haste/repent at leisure culture of ours?

Rove will sell it only so long as the sheeple eat it up.
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dave29 Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Dec-10-03 12:24 PM
Response to Reply #5
6. by systematically bringing down their straw house
point by point.

One good way to do that is by making Rove the story. Point out all of the political failures of the President (and there are many).

Rove thought the "Mission was Accomplished".
Rove thought a fake Turkey in Baghdad substituted for a real Turkey in the White House.
Rove is known for deceptive campaigning. Point it out. Ceaselessly.

Another way is to take the freakin fight back to them, rather than handwringing about what Rove does or doesn't want. Ignore what he says and for the love of God, DO NOT LET HIM FRAME THE DEBATE. HOWARD DEAN IS NOT MCGOVERN, GEORGE W. BUSH IS NIXON. We cannot be afraid of Rove, it is absolutely how he wins.

We point out, ceaselessly, the corporate structure of this White House.

Just a few suggestions.
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TNOE Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Dec-10-03 12:30 PM
Response to Original message
7. Beautiful
and absolutely true. Believe NOTHING that comes out of this White House.
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TXvote Donating Member (317 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Dec-10-03 12:33 PM
Response to Original message
8. Kisses for Rove
http://www.ilovekarlrove.com/

Seriously he will give G.Gordon Liddy a run for his historic antics. I have spent a long time despairing over this man, but I finally figured out the important thing about dealing with spin. Spin is meant to turn you head until you get dizzy. It takes your eye off the target. Ignoring the man completely is the answer. Face to face, one on one dialogue is gonna win this election. That and we need to get people laughing if we want them to vote for change.

Peace,
Teresa
www.votervirgin.com
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southpaw72 Donating Member (155 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Dec-10-03 12:36 PM
Response to Original message
9. interesting post, but i have to supply a nitpick
... it's Ockham's Razor, not Occam's Razor. Named after 14th century philosopher William of Ockham.

"Pluralitas non est ponenda sine neccesitate" -- "Do not multiply entities unneccessarily." In a nutshell, if you have two competing hypotheses (i.e. both return the same predictions) to explain a phenomenon, pick the one that involves the fewest postulated terms.

(Sorry, can't help it... I work in a library, and get paid to be nitpicky.)
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dave29 Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Dec-10-03 12:38 PM
Response to Reply #9
10. You are absolutely correct
my apologies, I failed to look it up!
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dave29 Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Dec-10-03 12:54 PM
Response to Reply #10
11. and it is now
corrected :)
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southpaw72 Donating Member (155 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Dec-10-03 01:47 PM
Response to Reply #11
17. class act <eom>
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The White Rose Donating Member (804 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Dec-10-03 01:07 PM
Response to Original message
12. Excellent points.
Kick.
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mrgorth Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Dec-10-03 01:11 PM
Response to Original message
13. Awesome post man. Awesome
I think it's ready to fall too. I'm thrilled that they are going to use the war on terror and Iraq as their platform. It will sell ONLY to their hardcore base and some uber-hawk dems. We will get everyone else. Everyone. Did you here on the debate last night the dude working with Koppel saying how important domestics is to the electorate? They realize they're being screwed and are tired of it. We have a real chance here and the best way to beat the shrub is to present an alternative.

I only disagree on one thing. I think we need to be as dirty as they are. Rove would carve his own mother's belly out with a dull spoon if it got Bush the election. We need to be just as dirty. I have some ideas but frankly, I'm a little hesitant to post them as I'll likely get flamed for it. Suffice it to say we need to be making Rove work, not visa versa.
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dave29 Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Dec-10-03 01:21 PM
Response to Reply #13
14. I think we are already making him work
however, based on some of the posts today, though, he already has some DU'ers working for him.
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janx Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Dec-10-03 01:32 PM
Response to Original message
15. Fascinating.
I found myself wanting, today, to do some research on Rove. I don't have time though, and I was wondering if that wouldn't be a nice project for DUers.

You describe both him and this administration both eloquently and succinctly, Dave, although Rove as smoke-and-mirrors wizard, I think, gives him a little too much credit.

He has become predictable, almost childlike. He doesn't seem to have too large a variety of tricks up his sleeve; he seems to like doing the same one or two over and over. But it would be interesting to actually research this and find out.

There are two other threads currently active concerning Rove: one in GD and the other in LBN. The one in LBN concerns a right-wing mouthpiece and its "support" of Dean as the Democratic nominee. That might be a good place to start because it reeks of Rove.
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dave29 Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Dec-10-03 01:45 PM
Response to Reply #15
16. I tend to agree
Although I think he deserves credit for getting Bush elected (which seemed like an impossibility to me). So, while I would agree he has lost some of his touch, I still believe he should be taken very seriously.

In other words, never let down your guard :)
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lapislzi Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Dec-10-03 01:48 PM
Response to Original message
18. This deserves a kick
:kick:
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Eloriel Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Dec-10-03 05:34 PM
Response to Original message
19. Superb n/t
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NicoleM Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Dec-10-03 05:37 PM
Response to Original message
20. Excellent
I hope all the handwringers read this. Rove will do very bad things in this campaign no matter who the nominee is. Cowering in fear will only help him win.
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slinkerwink Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Dec-10-03 05:39 PM
Response to Original message
21. :kick:
:kick:
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SeattleRob Donating Member (893 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Dec-10-03 05:54 PM
Response to Original message
22. good post
:kick:
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Harrumph Donating Member (394 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Dec-10-03 06:21 PM
Response to Original message
23. Great post
:kick:
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West Coast Democrat Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Dec-10-03 06:46 PM
Response to Original message
24. I knew (in college) one of Karl Rove's "Protégés"....
...the son of a Texas politician who later took over Karl's "political consulting" firm in Texas after the Bushies* took over the White House. Rove and his people are not brilliant, they are simply conniving and desperate. They know their political beliefs are unpopular, and know that if their true agenda was discovered by the majority of the American public, they would be toast.
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janx Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Dec-10-03 07:06 PM
Response to Reply #24
26. This is not surprising.
Not at all.
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Snellius Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Dec-10-03 07:02 PM
Response to Original message
25. Sick & depressing facts about Karl Rove's so-called life
When he was 20 he found out that the man he called dad, who had just walked out on his mother, was not his real father but his stepfather. After the divorce, his mother moved to Reno and, some years later, she took her own life.

Rove did not marry until he was 36. Three years later, his wife angrily walked out on him, screaming at their divorce proceedings: "I don't love you. I've never loved you. And I'm leaving."

Fun guy.
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proud patriot Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Dec-10-03 07:08 PM
Response to Reply #25
27. well no wonder he wants everyone elso to suffer
sick puppy
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West Coast Democrat Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Dec-10-03 07:12 PM
Response to Reply #25
28. I think Karl was raised a Mormon also, wasn't he?
I believe he was born in Utah.
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Snellius Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Dec-10-03 07:24 PM
Response to Reply #28
32. Yes, I was reading "Bush's Brain"
by Texas newsguys James Moore and Wayne Slater. Highly recommended if you like biographies of dweeby supernerds. What's really weird is that he has always been like this.
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LiberalBushFan Donating Member (831 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Dec-10-03 07:14 PM
Response to Original message
29. I don't think he's so bad
In fact I hear he's a pretty nice guy.
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West Coast Democrat Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Dec-10-03 07:17 PM
Response to Reply #29
31. Sure, he seems like a nice enough guy
but what's your point?
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DemoTex Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Dec-10-03 07:15 PM
Response to Original message
30. Or in the words of that great Republican, Abe Lincoln:
"You can fool all of the people some of the time, and some of the people all of the time, but you can not fool all of the people all of the time." - Abraham Lincoln

That in essence, is the lesson of Enron and will be the lesson of Rove and Bu$h. The question is: When will their house of cards tumble? I think sooner rather than later. Yes, that's what I think.
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Homer12 Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Dec-10-03 07:27 PM
Response to Original message
33. You fight Rove by feeding it what it wants.
And you keep on feeding it, and keep on feeding it, like a a ballon untill it pops. The self-serving win at all-cost mentality main weakness is arrogance, feed posioned information, false, etc..., and you then create problems for Rovian Spin.

Roves tactics will implode, they already haev with Wilson and Plame, and they will again.

Maybe they are now with the Gore endorsment of Dean?
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SoCalDem Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Dec-10-03 07:32 PM
Response to Original message
34. He's just a pathetic , pasty little troll..
Is he married?? If so, I pity his wife :(.. What a vile creature

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Cleita Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Dec-10-03 07:40 PM
Response to Original message
35. Time to clean up Washington.
Isn't it? We need real leaders, real administrators and legislators. It's time to run the BFEE mob out of town.
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jokerman93 Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Dec-11-03 12:44 AM
Response to Original message
36. Dave29
Whoosh.
Bam!
Yay!
Home Run!
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frank frankly Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Dec-11-03 12:57 AM
Response to Original message
37. dave29, tell it, brother!!!!!!!
what a wonderful read. you are absolutely correct.

thanks man!
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DUJunkie Donating Member (57 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Dec-11-03 03:02 AM
Response to Original message
38. KICK!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
:kick:
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