Clinton, Brown, Newsom, Gonzalez in San Francisco -- a good story.

[AP]

I heard from a friend of a friend of someone who was eating at restaurant in San Francisco. Mayor Brown and Clinton were eating together in this restaurant -- I'm not sure if it was the night before the Newsom endorsement or the night of the endorsement. A woman got up to go the bathroom. She was wearing a Matt Gonzalez campaign shirt. The restaurant errupted in applause.

I hope Clinton felt bad.

[Rowdyboy]

1. I'm sure he was crushed

Especially when the returns came in last night.

[AP]

4. Clinton must know that Gonzalez stands for everything that he stands for.

Clinton was representing the party when he supported Newsom. I suspect he wasn't representing his conscience.

[msmcghee]

11. I've read a lot of your posts.

So I know you're a pretty smart guy (gal?).

But emotions always trump reason if we don't control them. Especially it seems, out here in farleftyland. IMO that's because world-view memes can easily become strongly attached to our emotions. Believe me, I suffer from the same affliction.

When some politician makes a statement that we don't like - it's so easy to imagine what terrible, crass, immoral, politically opportunistic reasons they must have had. Kind of like the reasons everyone is imagining for Gore's endorsement of your favorite candidate.

I'm only acting like the friend in the bar, holding back my buddy who's ready to fight a mutual friend for some slight. I understand how you feel. And I'm glad you have that passion. But you'll be glad later if I can keep you from saying or doing things that would cause you to lose a good friend. Especially if losing friends on the left and our sense of common purpose will hurt us politically at election time.

Here's your jacket back. ;-)

[AP]

13. You lost me. I have no idea what you're talking about.

The minute DU'ers don't want to hear gossip that is most likely true about how politicians we all care about interact with the public at large, let me know, and I'll stop posting this stuff.

I'm not lying. I was told this story by someone whom I trust, and that person was smart enough to say that he wasn't sure if it was true.

It's still a good story. I'm sharing it with DU as a story. Nothing more. I know I like stories like this.

If you want to read more into it, so be it. But your condescenion is wasted on me.

[msmcghee]

16. Sorry, it 's just that . .

. . "hoping that Clinton feels bad" caused me to feel sad, and worried about our chances next year.

The story was funny. I know it wasn't true - or Fox would have a screen-crawler running full time by now.

Didn't mean to be condenscending.

[AP]

18. I like Clinton. I LOVE Clinton. That's why I hope he felt bad.

I believe that Clinton MUST look at a guy like Gonzalez and see in him many of the same things that made Clinton want to get into politics. He must look at Newsom and see many of the things that make him hate politics.

[Cheswick2.0]

29. I think he probably wondered why Gonzalez turned Green

and broke the union solidarity. Clinton is a democratic President he owes the party loyalty. Democrats got him elected not the Green party. I'll bet Newsome is not as bad as people paint him. Even of he is then you should know as well as I that when liberals leave the party they leave it to the moderates. They don't have any right later to expect the moderate Democratic party to carry water for them. Want a liberal democratic party? Don't take your liberal butt to another party.

[AP]

32. Two things:

- 90% of Green preferrers voted for Gore in 2000. If not for the Supreme Court and Jeb in FL, we'd be saying that Gore owes his MOV to Green/left wing support.

- If Gonzalez stayed Dem, there never would have been a campaign on the issues Gonzalez holds dear. He may not have won, but he has pulled the debate to the left.

That's the ideal situation. If you care about liberalism more than you care about party politics, you have to be happy when a race comes down to Dem v Green. The debate those two candidates had was the debate that EVERY two finalists for political office should be having. And it be nice if the Greens won every once in a while.

[Iverson]

33. flaw in that thesis

In a vacuum, your argument makes perfect sense. In the present case, lefties within the party get the privilege of being ignored. Gonzalez' campaign got attention, and you know that it wasn't a product of the 3% of registered Greens. That was the Democratic base unwilling to support the corporate sponsored candidate.

I'm curious: do you think that Clinton and Gore will be flown in to support mayoral candidates against Republicans?

Does party loyalty transcend ideas, or do the ideas count for something?

[Rowdyboy]

35. AP, that analysis can't be right, can it?

You say 90% of Greens voted for Gore in 2000. Nader received 2,780,000 votes. If thats 10% of the Greens, then that means 90% would equal 25 million Greens voting for Gore. Since Gore only polled 50 million votes, you're saying that 1/2 his vote totals came from Greens and that Greens make up 25% of the electorate? Or am I reading you wrong?

[AP]

36. "Green preferrers" not "Greens". Many Dems, Inds and some Reps were

green preferrers.

Gore barely beat Nader in the condorcet match-ups, I believe.

Google, "harvard burden and third party" and you should find a paper by professor burden with the cite to the web site which has the stats.

[msmcghee]

2. "I hope Clinton felt bad."

And that's why we have a big chance to lose this election.

Enjoy those feelings, eleven months from now they will not be so sweet.

[AP]

5. If he didn't feel bad. At least I hope it was an awkward moment.

How's that?

[YNGW]

3. Restaurant News

>I hope Clinton felt bad.

A friend of a friend of someone told he that he feels your pain.

[AP]

6. Now if Bush sends us into Great Depression II

A lot of homeless people will feel Newson's pain.

[YNGW]

9. Prop N

Deal with the issue.

Prop "N" (Care Not Cash) passed by a margin of about 70-30 in SF. Aparantly some of the people there thought the current system of handing out $350 to each homeless person per month wasn't helping the situation. If you want to assign blame, assign it to those voters who made Prop "N" the law. Or better yet, how about giving "Cash Not Care" a chance as the voters mandated.

[AP]

15. Newsom is hostile to the homeless. Gonzalez isn't, and it goes beyond

Prop N.

I'm saying if things get worse, who do you trust would take better care of the interests of people on the margins? The guy who wants to keep rents high, or the guy with a track record for looking after people in desperate circumstances?

[YNGW]

20. Try Here

http://sf.indymedia.org/

You can join the bash Newsom crowd. The people have spoken.

[AP]

22. Why do you want to ghettoize honesty?

Why can't I talk about it here?

[YNGW]

26. Who's stopping you?

And why do you want to place false labels on what I said?

All the big hitters of our party went out and stumpped for Newsom. They must approve of what he stands for, right?? So, what are you saying about our party leaders?

[Terwilliger]

27. I think it says they're frightened of losing to Greens

[Cheswick2.0]

30. just doing their job as a party

I don't think the Green party is scaring anyone.

[AP]

28. Certainly not you. I'm saying:

Newsom represents access to a lot of cash for the Dem party which might go to Republicans.

I think this is a case where they put money before principle.

I think Democrats are better off when the middle and working class accumulates wealth and political power. I think that Newsom has access to SO MUCH money, the party said, well, that's more important than making sure that the middle and working class are better off in SF.

[Pastiche423]

31. Excuse me?

Are we, you and I, agreeing on something?

So that I am clear on what you are saying...

We both agree that Gonzalez was the best candiate for my beloved City?

[ronnykmarshall]

7. I heard different

A friend of a friend of a former co-worker's sister's ex-husband's next door neighbor's baby sitter said that she was there and said that didn't happen.

What happened was a women got up, went to the bathroom and flushed a Matt Gonzalez T-shirt down the toliet. This caused a flood in the bathroom and the woman slipped on the water and fell on the floor. Hearing the woman's screams for help, President Clinton rushed in and found the woman bleeding. He summoned the secret service agents to rush her to the hospital in his limo, thus saying her life.

The restaurant errupted in applause.

The t-shirt was ruined.

[AP]

8. I suspect before the end of the day, someone else will confirm this story.

[ronnykmarshall]

10. Oh yeah of course they will.

:eyes::eyes::eyes::eyes::eyes::eyes::eyes::eyes:

[AP]

14. Do you think I'm lying?

[ronnykmarshall]

21. Lighten up!

My gawd! Get off the cross, we need the wood.

It was a parody, get over it.

[AP]

23. Oh. Parody.

Right.

[ronnykmarshall]

24. Jesus H.

:eyes:

[AP]

25. hmm

[lancemurdoch]

12. Victory for the Greens

Newsom had the business establishment behind him, $4,000,000.00 and the Democratic machine behind him to the point of having to bring Clinton in. Gonzalez also got 47% of the vote. It's clear the Green party is gathering momentum, pretty soon they will be winning elections like these.

The DLC "new" Democratic did just what you'd expect it to, promised to be the candidate of business owners which brought in millions of dollars so the city establishment could defeat the grassroots opposition which was poorly funded but had all of the momentum and initiative. I can't wait until next election, when they bring out Clinton again, raise evn more millions, and lose.

[Iverson]

17. sort of: a loss for the Democratic base

It has been noted several times that only 3% of San Francisco voters are registered Greens. With Newsom getting the backing of Clinton, Gore, Bechtel, George Schultz, and business interests generally, it's pretty clear to me that the 47-48% of voters for Gonzalez represented the Democratic base.

I wish more centrists would think before they gloat at the Gonzalez supporters.

[AP]

19. It shows that people care in liberalism, and it marginalizes Republicans.

This is only good for anyone who doesn't like fascists.

[Catherine Vincent]

34. If it happened, he probably didn't feel bad.

Clinton is a good guy, he more than likely applauded with them.