Clinton, in appearance today in Canada, says he would have voted for IWR.

[flpoljunkie]

Interestingly, Bill Clinton, in an appearance today in Canada, said on CNN he would have voted for the IWR resolution in Congress because Saddam would never let inspectors in without the threat of force. In addition, in the article linked below, Clinton also said:

"I thought it was the right thing to go to the UN and the wrong thing for us to start the conflict before (UN lead weapons inspector) Hans Blix had finished his job," said Clinton.

"The president said he would let the UN process play out. What happened was Mr. Blix was begging for four to six more weeks and America (read Bush) didn't give it to him."

Clinton told the crowd he hoped the UN will now take over much of the responsibility for security and humanitarian efforts in Iraq.

http://www.ctv.ca/servlet/ArticleNews/story/CTVNews/1071055638043_122/?hub=Canada

[tjdee]

1. Oh don't you know Clinton is the devil.

He'll be even more the devil if he goes and endorses anybody but Dean.

I think Clinton knows what he's saying, doing, etc. most of the time.
He is a consummate politician and knows what most Americans want.

[Julien Sorel]

2. Traitor Clinton! Burn him!

Burn him at the stake! Pansy ass pink tu-tu no-good bastard! He's utterly worthless. Might as well be a Republican.

[Larkspur]

3. And Gore called the Iraq War a "catastrophic mistake"

which it is.

I guess this shows that Al Gore was really the brains behind the Clinton-Gore Admin.

Of course, Billy is probably just backing up his wife, who voted for IWR.

[polpilot]

39. Billy's so smitten. ANYTHING for his bride.

Dean '04...

[killbotfactory]

4. Kerry said Bush already had the threat of force

Did the excuse change?

[flpoljunkie]

8. No, Kerry said the IWR provided the threat of force...agrees with Clintons

that Saddam Hussein would not allow inspectors into Iraq with the threat of force implicit in the IWR. Get your facts straight.

[killbotfactory]

18. Bush said "we're going in with or without you" to the UN

Before any bill was made or any vote was cast.

He didn't need the IWR to attack Iraq.

[sandnsea]

10. No he didn't

He said Presidents have used military force without any authorization. He's just pointing out the obvious there. The situation with Iraq was very, very different than Kosovo, Bosnia or Haiti. Getting the UN to start taking the problem of WMD around the world is critical and that resolution made it clear the entire United States takes that problem seriously. The UN must start dealing with these countries. Unfortunately, Bush screwed it up so badly that we haven't made progress on that front either, which Kerry has also talked about.

[Tierra_y_Libertad]

5. Why am I not surprised?

Bill was always a centrist prone to play it safe. His apologia for Hillary's vote is typical. He has done much to harm the party.

[paulk]

11. It's strikes me as funny

that Dean, and his supporters, are quite willing to cite Clinton's wonderful economy as the place Dean's tax policy should return to.

I guess he's good for some things, but not others?

I think it's even funnier that you condemn Clinton for being a centrist, something that Howard Dean has described himself as.

[IrateCitizen]

22. Wrong on all counts

Dean's economic policies (thus far), unlike Clinton's, are NOT built around the idea of "what's good for Wall St. is good for America."

Bob Rubin was the chief architect of Clinton's economic policies. This is the same Bob Rubin who went on to head Citigroup in 1998, and came asking for bailout funds in the wake of the Enron collapse. It's also the same Bob Rubin who's now advising the Clark campaign.

Want to know more about Bob Rubin? Read some of Joseph Stiglitz's assessments of him in Globalization and its Discontents. They're hardly flattering, and Stiglitz is a Nobel laureate. Robert Reich was none too fond of Rubin, either -- he (rightfully, IMHO) saw him as an elitist, not on the side of the people.

I think it's even funnier that you condemn Clinton for being a centrist, something that Howard Dean has described himself as.

There's nothing wrong with being a centrist per se. The problem is when you cross over toward being a corporatist centrist (a la Clinton) as opposed to a populist centrist (as Dean has crafted himself thus far). Of course, Dean could always do the corporatist fade once he's nominated and/or elected, but his message thus far has stayed sufficiently away from that sucking black hole.

[tameszu]

35. Are you kidding?!? Dean is a DEFICIT HAWK

This means that he prioritizes the confidence of the BOND HOLDERS over fiscal stimulus to produce ECONOMIC GROWTH.

In Canada, such policies, pushed by right-wing conservative bond holders led to years of recession and suffering by the lower clases. Read Linda McQuaig's _Shooting the Elephant_ and Jim Stanford's _Paper Chase_, both solid left-wing arguments for why deficit hawkism hurts the poor.

[paulk]

40. do you mean Dean's economic policies as Governor of Vermont

or the newfound populism of his run for president?

Actually, I wasn't talking about Clinton's economic policies, per se.
I was referring to Dean's rollback of bush's tax cut, which many feel is tantamount to a tax increase. Many of the Dean supporters on this board defend this position by citing Clinton's economy as the (wonderful) place we would go back to. So it seems a tad hypocritical to me to praise Clinton when justifying one policy and condemn him when a policy difference makes it convenient.

As for centrism - I guess it all comes down to trust, doesn't it?
Is Howard Dean who he says he is? Is any politician who they say they are?

[el_gato]

6. Clinton is a servant of the ruling elite

he always has been

can you say NAFTA?

[evil_orange_cat]

7. agreed...

so is the rest of the DLC...

[Old and In the Way]

23. Can you say 23MM jobs in 8 years?

Why do people attack what were spectacular employment policies during Clinton's term...like he caused the economic ruination that is clearly attributable to Bush?

Who doubts that Clinton->Gore would not have retooled our economy to address our oil dependency and the slowdown in the hi-tech sector? They saw the opportunity to reprime the pump. That $500MM surplus would have been the springboard to an entirely new economy based on decentralized energy, if the Roilists hadn't stolen the election, implemented their PNAC plan, and wrote a treasury check to themselves.

[displacedtexan]

9. Extremely telling, considering the timing

Imagine you're a senator, and you're asked to vote for a resolution which demands that the president (regardless of who the president is at the time) seek UN support in a quest to get inspectors into Iraq by threatening military force.

What do you do? Vote NO, knowing that a majority of frightened Americans fear another rogue dictator will somehow attack... and knowing that a NO vote will hamper future presidents seeking similar resolutions?

Or vote YES, confident that the resolution includes fail safe mechanisms designed to allay the fears of Americans and satisfy the world?

Supporting the presidency (not one particular freak monkey who happens to be in the WH at the moment) is bigger than denying the UN a chance to inspect a dictator's arsenal.

What the current pResident chose to do with the resolution was criminal, but the vote itself was considered by many to be necessary to further the credibility of future American presidents.

... just my opinion.

[blm]

12. well said. Very rarely is the process of government noted

in this ongoing argument. You can't just do tit for tat all the time like a Republican. Sometimes it's actually a responsibility to go and negotiate and get the netter bill even when it costs you politically.

[bearfartinthewoods]

26. you don't understand.......

dean is going to make congress run like coakroaches and fix all this
</sarcasm>

[NewYorkerfromMass]

32. Shouldn't he make congress run like

a swiss watch? :)
I notice a lot of quiet on this thread. Dean Underground just can't stand it!

[blm]

13. well said. Very rarely is the process of government noted

in this ongoing argument. You can't just do tit for tat all the time like a Republican. Sometimes it's actually a responsibility to go and negotiate and get the better bill even when it costs you politically.

[Gin]

14. He would not have invaded a country that was not a threat.....

the pre-emption part of the shrub strategy is the really scary part...these guys will take on more countries and use our kids as cannon fodder....fuck all these people who think life is their chess board and people are the pawns.

[sandnsea]

16. What Democrat would???

No Democrat is for unilateral pre-emptive war.

[IrateCitizen]

20. Read up on Clinton's assessment of Saddam a bit

You'll find that he wasn't in too much disagreement with the PNAC crowd when they approached him toward the end of his second term. The only reason he didn't launch an invasion is because he felt the "timing was off".

[Cheswick2.0]

25. not true

he was not a supporter of PNAC and the timing he talked about being off was not about invading Iraq, it was about getting Bin Laden.
I don't agree with Clinton on this but don't twist his actions.

[IrateCitizen]

33. I stand corrected

Clinton's repudiation of the PNAC letter urging him to go after Saddam Hussein was based on the fact that he saw al Qaeda as a higher priority.

But here is an interesting article about Scott Ritter's assessment of US policy toward Iraq under the Clinton administration. It's from the World Socialist Web Service -- I know there's an instant urge by many of you to instantly write it off, but they tend to produce some pretty in-depth stuff on international affairs, so take the time to look it over.

http://www.wsws.org/articles/2003/oct2003/ritt-o17_prn.shtml

[sandnsea]

31. Unilateral war???

He was for that? The reason he didn't push for military action is because he knew there was no international support for it. Not just, the "timing was off". Kerry's position was for Clinton to get tougher on the weapon's inspections and be more consistent, which is what Scott Ritter also wanted in 1998 because he continued to be concerned about Saddam and weapons. After 4 years without inspections and continued harm to the Iraqi people caused by sanctions, Kerry decided it was time to put pressure on the UN to get those inspectors back in. Dennis actually agreed that something needed to be done as well, he just thought it could be done through diplomacy only. Kerry didn't, that's what the vote was about. It was not about supporting a unilateral war against a country that was no threat.

[AP]

19. He has been saying this for months. This is how he answers this Q every...

...time it's asked.

I've posted this fact dozens of times.

If the media choses to report it today, that's the revealing part.

[LeahMira]

15. I suppose...

... the lesson of all this is never to trust Bush.

I think many who voted for IWR honestly thought that every possible alternative would be explored thoroughly... inspections, U.S. pressure, etc. The fact that's now clear is that Bush intended this war long before he asked "permission" and even long before 9/11. Once he was in charge, an attack on Iraq was inevitable.

Some people had misgivings, fearing that Bush would run with the vote, but most imagined he would honor his word. Now we all know better.

I think we'd better start worrying about Cuba now. I suppose we'd be saving poor Elian's life... for democracy, of course.

[displacedtexan]

21. Astute observation, LeahMira!

Cuba makes sense, in that * needs the Florida Cuban voting block to get close enough numbers to cheat again. Also, everyone hates Castro (killed his own people yadayadayada); "liberating" Cuba just in time for the election would satisfy everyone, except those Dems who want to lift the travel ban and use diplomatic channels to bring about honest political change in Cuba.

[madrchsod]

17. clinton is satan`s

right hand man. the man is pure evil. for 8 years he ruled america with satan`s blessing. thank god , we now have god`s chosen one ,george bush. i feel so much better knowing george bush protects me everyday.

[reachout]

24. What else would you expect...

from a Cruise Missle Democrat?

[NewYorkerfromMass]

27. IOW: He endorses Kerry's position

excellent timing too.

[sistersofmercy]

30. Yes indeed! eom

[flpoljunkie]

37. Most definitely.

It was reported once on CNN today that I saw, and the article I found by googling after the CNN clip.

We'll see if the media sees fit to report it this evening or in tomorrow's papers.

[blm]

38. yes...hard not to notice.

Funny thing....If you read Gore's various preIWR vote statements, he seemed to be on the same page as Clinton and Kerry about Saddam and what Bush should do.

[PurityOfEssence]

28. Dear Bill, the right wing still hates you

and they will continue to try to destroy you.

[Scott Lee]

29. And I disagree with Clinton. Tis the Treason, you know.

[Forkboy]

34. Not suprising in the least

[IrateCitizen]

36. I'm not surprised in the least.

Bill Clinton was never one to shy away from promoting US militarism and imperialism abroad. He just wasn't so stupid as to be so utterly blatant about it as the neocons.

[sistersofmercy]

41. Now this is getting real interesting, isn't it?