What happened to the Anyone But Bushers?

[Q]

- Just a few weeks ago, certain DUers were demanding that Democrats support ANYONE BUT BUSH. But after Gore's endorsement of a candidate other than their favorite...it's suddenly 'anyone but' the endorsed candidate.

- What happened to supporting each other's candidates and working together towards the noble goal of ousting Bush*?

- It seems that when we get down to the nitty gritty of politics...everyone starts taking sides and 'anyone but Bush*' becomes every Democrat for themselves.

- A comment from a fellow DUer: "I am a Democrat against Dean and have been ripped to shreds on DU. This is no longer the place to be if you do not march in lockstep with the McCarthy-like Dean supporters."

- Democrat against Dean? Why is that even necessary? "McCarthy-like Dean supporters"? Why say such horrible things about other Democrats?

- Why can't we support all the candidates and let the best man or woman win? Let's show some grace and civility and respect towards each other and stop the character assassination of Democratic candidates. Each and every candidate would be better for America than Bush*. Stop the infighting and direct your anger toward the true enemy of the Democratic party and America: George Walker Bush*.

[RebelOne]

1. Well, I'm still an ABB person. I don't care who is nominated.

As long as we get Bush out of the White House.

[GreenPartyVoter]

65. Ditto

I prefer Dennis to get the nod, but if he doesn't I'll still vote dem. Just won't be as excited about it is all.

[NNN0LHI]

2. I didn't go no where Q n/t

[Q]

8. I can't believe my eyes...

- I've never seen such nasty infighting...and I've been participating/watching Democratic politics for thirty years.

- This is vicious stuff...and none of the candidates deserve to be treated like this.

- To make matters worse...in desperation some are actually using RWing talking points to discredit other candidates. Now it seems...working for planned parenthood is a crime against humanity.

- We should be fighting the White House criminals instead of each other. Will common sense prevail?

[NNN0LHI]

15. I am not making excuses but I cannot ever remember the stakes any higher

I think we all know that 4 more years of Bush could very well bring the end of the world as we know it today. I have never felt this way before. I always thought this country could take the blows of Republican administration and still survive. I am not so sure of that right now. Really.

Don

[Bucky]

44. Yes, the country will survive 4 more years of Bush

I wanna see the boy "GTT" but let's not over-react. I'm old enough to remember people saying the same stuff about Reagan's reelection. I can remember people saying Poppy getting into office would bring the Bill of Rights to an end. This old gal we call America managed to endure the worst the clowns could dish out and kept on kickin'.

The Republic will certainly survive a second Bush term. It'll suck, of course. I think we need to kick the bum out and get back to sane policies and honorable government. But let's not surrender to despair. The country will survive George Bush. There'll just be that much bigger a mess for us all to clean up, but we as a country will be here to do job when the idiocy's over.

That said, I do fear that a lot of our fellow citizens in uniform will not be around, or at least won't have legs to keep on kickin' with, if Bush gets elected to his first term. It's imperative that we stop him.

[NNN0LHI]

52. Over-react nothing.I was never concerned about Reagan or Poppy having this

http://www.globalsecurity.org/wmd/systems/nuclear-football.htm

The Football

It follows the President where ever he goes and is never more that a few steps from his side. It is carried by a military officer who must undergo the nation's most rigorous security background check - the "Yankee White". It contains a secure SATCOM radio and handset, the nuclear launch codes known as the "Gold Codes" and the President's Decision Book - the nuclear playbook that the President would rely on if he would ever have to decide to use nuclear weapons. Its real name is unknown but it is popularly known as "the football".

The concept of the football came about in the aftermath of the Cuban Missile Crisis. President Kennedy was concerned that some Soviet commander in Cuba might launch their missiles without authorization from Moscow. After the crisis, Kennedy ordered a review of the U.S. Nuclear Command and Control system. The result was the highly classified National Secuirty Action Memorandum that created the football.

The White House Communications Agency which oversees the military unit in charge of the Football, was created with personnel from sections of the Defense Communcations Agency, composed of units fo the Defense Communications Operations Unit (responsible for communications and emergency power engineering) and the Defense Communications Support Unit. To work in these units, a candidate must pas a special seucirty investigation, called "Yankee White." The criteria include U.S. citizenship, unqeustionable loyalty , and an absloute absense of any foreign influence over the individual, his family, or "persons to whom the individual is closely linked." The aide who carries the Football come from the four military branches and are ranked Lt.Colonel, naval Comander, or Marine Major. They must be knowledgeable about all aspects fo the overall SIOP, as well as the various options available to the President for implimenting the war plan.

more

[chromotone]

3. I'm still here...

I'm voting for the candidate who's name ends with capital "D" :dem:

[Kremer]

27. GOD?

No matter how much someone pissed anyone off it can't be bad enough to vote for Bush. You're so angry you'd go against all your beliefs and join the crowd who is destroying America, just out of spite/anger. Well that is truly revolting and I couldn't see how such a person could live w/ themselves!

[goobergunch]

31. I think it's a reference to the (D) tag after a Democrat's name (n/t)

[Terwilliger]

33. no, ZOD

[Code_Name_D]

48. Yes, I will vote against Bush...

and any Democrat who choses to stand along side him. Dean dosn't stand with Bush, even when it was fashonble to do so. Clark did until it was no longer fashonble to do so.

[retyred]

56. So when dean said

GLORIA BORGER, U.S. News & World Report: Governor, what exactly does the president then have to prove to you?

DEAN: I don't think he really has to prove anything. I think that most Americans, including myself, will take the president's word for it.

That was a statement against bush?

Now that I close my eyes and spin around real fast, I can see that too.



retyred in fla
“good night paul, wherever you are”
So I read this book

[goobergunch]

58. Would you mind quoting the full statement? Thanks. (n/t)

[bpilgrim]

4. ABB.mp3 ------------------------------------------------ LINK

http://therandirhodesshow.com/randi_audio/abb.mp3

peace

[Wazoo]

12. ...

[NNN0LHI]

21. Welcome to DU Wazoo. If you wish I will post this to the forum to discuss

Just let me know and I will be happy to do it for you. Again, welcome to DU.

Don

Edit: The software has a bug in it so only hit send once or the darn thing will double post on you. It happens to me all the time.

[Wazoo]

26. Thanks NNN

Please Do!

(BTW, I double posted the stupid message, and couldn't figure out how to delete one of them.

Thanks..and thanks for the welcome!

[newyawker99]

62. Hi Wazoo!!

You cannot delete a message. Only the moderators or Admin can do that. If you want, you can click edit and erase the message instead.

Welcome to DU!! :toast:

[liberalmuse]

22. Welcome to DU!

And thank you for that very optimistic post. We sure could use more of those! Hope to see more of you here. :)

[Cleita]

23. Hi and welcome to DU.

I've been thinking along the same lines too except that I think the Greens will still vote for Ralph Nader again if he runs. Go figure.

[dweller]

25. Welcome Wazoo!

:hi:

Just wanted to post a welcome note, and suggest if you haven't already, to check out the blackbox voting threads here, also those dealing with diebold, touchscreen voting machines, etc.
Since i guess you can't search the site, keep your eyes open for BBV, Diebold, etc.
And in the meantime, http://www.blackboxvoting.org/

Enjoy your trip at DU,
dp

:)
gentle enough?
HEY, WHERE'D YOU GO?......oh, now we appear psychic and were expecting your arrival!

[Wazoo]

19. Hello! I am brand-spankin’ new here…

…and though I’ve been lurking for a little while, this will be my very first post. (I wanted to post this in its own thread, but board rules won’t let me—sorry to tag this long-winded post onto someone else’s thread, and this seemed like the closest in subject matter).

Anyway, I’ll say up-front that I’m consider myself an “Independent”, but thought that maybe some of you might be interested in the perspective of someone who wasn’t a member of the “hard-core party faithful” (pardon me in advance if that was a wrong assumption). But I wanted to make some personal observations about the upcoming Presidential election. Please tell me if some of you think this analysis (from your perspectives) is completely off-the-wall (but please be gentle with me because I’m a fragile newbie).

In the 2000 presidential election, Bush won to a large extent because the Nader folks (3 million votes) split off from the Democrats. From all I've read, they're decidedly NOT going to take the chance of doing that again, and will almost certainly vote for whoever the Dems put up this election.

Additionally, I think it highly unlikely that those who voted for Gore last time out will have converted to Bush supporters this year (given Bush's policies and Dems' traditional opposition to his approach), which--taken with the Green vote--suggests that whoever the Dem nominee will be will start out ahead of Bush by 3-4 million votes. (Assuming they will vote again this year, a reasonable assumption, I think).

Now add to that two things...First, from what I’ve read, the Dems (Dean, Sharpton, and the "Hip Hop Artists" in particular) have been pretty successful in registering new voters; And second, Bush's policies have turned off alot of the "traditional” Republicans (so-called Rockefeller Republicans) and “right-leaning Independents." At it's most basic, Rockefeller Republicans believe in fiscal conservatism, smaller government, personal responsibility, meritocracy, lower taxes, states' rights, a foreign policy where the US is not the world's policeman, and a domestic policy where government stays out of the personal affairs/choices of citizens. Most of all, they do NOT cotton to being deceived, and are not at all comfortable with the “neocon” takeover of the party (which is why you might hear a lot of “I’ve been a conservative voter but I’m NOT supporting Bush next year”). For reference, probably the most widely known "Rockefeller Republican" today would be Colin Powell.

Taken together, and added to the Dem base mentioned above, suggests to me that whoever the Dem candidate will be will have ALOT more support going into the election than Bush will. (I believe this explains, in part at least, why the "unnamed Democrat" does so well against Bush in the polls. Regardless of who the Dems put up, a number of people intend to vote against the current President, as I see it).

So the question then is "Do you think enough ADDITIONAL people feel so much better about the world under Bush's Presidency that they'll either switch their vote from what they did last time (unlikely), or that if they didn't vote last time, they like him and approve of him so much that they'll come out and vote for him THIS election?" (also unlikely). We're talking about several million votes here for Bush just to break even with the Dem candidate, let alone to win the election...I just don't see it happening.

So just looking at the raw numbers, I think this is a pretty strong indication that Bush will lose, regardless of who the Dems put up…especially if they pick a relatively strong candidate (who doesn’t shoot himself in the foot of course), and if the core party members present a united front.

As I said, I’m an Independent, with many of those “Rockefeller Republican (fiscal conservatism/social liberalism) tendencies. And, truth be told, I despise what’s been going on the last three years, and think GWB has been absolutely wrecking the country, so my analysis here may very well be biased against the President.

But it really DOES seem that way to me. Comments? (please be gentle).


--BTW, I would definitely fall into the ANYBODY BUT BUSH category, which is why I posted here.

[michaelbmoore]

32. Welcome!

Wazoo!

ABB!

[AndyTiedye]

57. We Need to Win by A LOT or They Steal It

Hi. Welcome to DU

> In the 2000 presidential election, Bush won to a large extent because the Nader
> folks (3 million votes) split off from the Democrats. From all I've read, they're
> decidedly NOT going to take the chance of doing that again

Where did you read that? I haven't seen anything one way or the other.
After what Nader did in 2000, naturally we fear the worst. He may feel that
2004 is his chance to destroy the Democratic party for good, so that the
Green Party might eventually replace it as the opposition party. If he runs,
he will still pull a percent or two. His being in the race also makes it easier
for the Republicans to plausibly steal the election, because they can then
shift Dem votes to the Greens where a high Repub vote might look suspicious.

We really need to set our sights on a landslide, because that is what we need to win.

Just winning the popular vote is not enough. We won that last time.
Convincing a majority of eligible voters in states with a majority of electoral votes
isn't enough either. We did that last time, but too many eligible voters in Florida
were prevented from voting by being improperly removed from the rolls.

Now the votes in Georgia, Florida, and many other states are to be counted
by Diebold and ES&S machinez that are own3d by fundies and Republican
operatives. 2002 saw unprecedented shifts to the Republicans in Georgia
with their new Diebold DRE machinez. The networks refused to publish
their own exit polls and spun the 16-point shift from the last published polls
as a surge of "angry white men", though the precinct-level numbers belied this.

The only way we can prevent the theft of the election is to be so far ahead by
November that Bush* is afraid that he will get the Shevardnadze treatment if
he tried to rig the numbers and claim victory.

And we have to do this without any help from the media, which will be savaging our
candidiate, whoever he is, every hour of every day. We will have only short
advertising spots to respond with, if we can even get them on the air.
The major networks may refuse Democratic ads once Dems are no long using them
to savage each other in the primaries. Clear Channel has already said they are considering such an embargo, if they get away with it, the others are likely to follow.


We need to build a campain that can overcome all of this.

[Don_G]

5. Anybody With A "- D" By Their Name

Some people can't see it that way though.

http://www.democraticunderground.com/discuss/duboard.php?az=show_topics&forum=104

[robsul82]

6. Quite simple.

They drowned in the tidal wave of tears spent by the Anyone But Deaners.

Later.

RJS

[goobergunch]

7. I'm still here

:hi:

[MrSlayer]

10. I like Clark but....

I'll vote whoever gets the nomination.

[Robbien]

9. I am here and it is easy now to keep away from the infighting

Tons and tons of threads are relegated to my hidden list.

[Kathleen04]

11. ABB! n/t

[opihimoimoi]

13. Took 10 min to get 8 guys here

Not bad

But count me in,

would not vote any other Party,

The Dem Philosophy of Sharing/Caring is enough for me.

Come, we avoid the Alamihi Syndrome

[Bucky]

46. Alamihi Syndrome - had to look that one up

It's about how crabs in a bucket aways pull each other down whenever one is about to rise to the top. Much like the belief that a vigorous debate in the primary season weakens the candidate in the general election, the Alamihi syndrome is a myth.

http://www.moolelo.com/alamihi-letter.html

[Frances]

14. ABB

That's me

[JVS]

16. I guess they were lying

I refused to sign onto ABB. Thought it was undemocratic. Didn't think it was a reasonable position anyway. Sooner or later SOMEBODY has to be the one, you can't just nominate anybody.

[Bunny]

17. "They" did not appreciate being told on Monday that it was

all over, the nomination had just been clinched, and that they now had to get behind Dean, pull together for the good of the party, MOVE ON, GET OVER IT, blah blah blah. All this without a SINGLE vote being cast!

As someone who was as ABB as they come, I was EXTREMELY turned off by the attitude of the Dean supporters. And I won't go into specifics, but you know who you are and you know what you said. Don't even try to say that it didn't occur.

For the first time since 2000, I actually understand and empathize with the Nader voters. I resented like HELL being told that it was over, before I had a chance to vote. I resented like HELL being told that refusing to get behind Dean would bring four more years of Bush.

Dean' supporters on this board have so completely turned me off to him that, if he in fact becomes the eventual nominee, I will vote for him, but I will DAMN WELL hold my nose while doing it.

[goobergunch]

24. "The Dean supporters"?

As a Dean supporter, I challenge you to demonstrate where I said anything of the sort.

I am getting really sick of the broad-brush attacks. Every candidate has obnoxious supporters. However, every candidate has positive supporters as well.

[Bunny]

30. The obnoxious ones were out in full force on Monday.

And I don't recall naming YOU at all. I said in my post that you all know who you are - if it wasn't you, we got no problem.

[dweller]

47. You are probably one of the positive posters

you speak about goobergunch, but look up and down on this thread.

As a Kucinich supporter, imagine how if feels to read some of the most inane, asinine and simply childish criticisms of my candidate daily here. I have only felt the need to defend, never attack.

read on,
dp

[ibegurpard]

43. And I did not appreciate being told

that Gore was undermining the democratic process by doing something completely appropriate in campaign season...endorsing who he believes in. That was offensive in the extreme, considering the actual undermining of the democratic process we have witnessed in places like Florida.

[Le Taz Hot]

68. Excuse me?

99.9% of the DU Dean supporters said no such thing. You make a judgement on ALL Dean supporters based on .01% of DU Dean supporters? Go over to LBN and take a look at the thread stating ABC is pulling their reporters out of the Kucinich, Mosely-Braun and Sharpton campaigns. You'll find LOTS of Dean supporters, including me, that object to the media trying to take over OUR primaries.

Good goddess, I see some pretty offensive Kerry, Clark, Kucinich, etc., supporters on this board as well but I have the good sense God gave me not to lump them all together. It's real easy, put the most offensive ones on ignore. And just for the record, I have just as many obnoxious Dean supporters on ignore as I do the other candidates.

I'm sorry, but this post was EXTREMELY offensive to those of us who do not engage in candidate bashing.

Think before you post next time!

[jmags]

18. I've never taken part in Dean bashing

and I think he very well could win the general election, not to mention the fact he has done wonderful things in reviving the idea of empowerment in the grassroots base. That said, he's not my favorite candidate, and of all the candidates that could beat Bush, I think he's much lower on the list, but I will not reflexively attack him, and should he get the nomination, he will have my complete and total support.

[qanda]

I'm still around

If I have to, I will hold my nose and vote for whoever wins the nomination.

[Mattforclark]

20. Raises hand

ABB.

[Sterling]

28. Now that Dean is way ahead it seems some want to take their toys

And go home. What sore losers.

[Bucky]

39. thanks for that "sterling" example of Deanie arrogance

With all due respect, my fellow Democrat, I'd like to point out that nobody's lost yet and so can hardly be a "sore loser." The good Deanies are the first to point out that Dean hasn't won anything yet except for endorsements. It is not disloyal to the party to argue that Dean is going to present us with a whole lot of electibility problems if he gets nominated. He is, as Skinner pointed out in a GREAT post, not the safe candidate this year.

If I criticize Dean, that doesn't mean I won't vote for him or work my ass off to get him elected. I criticize Clark whenever I think he's wrong. If he knew me, I'm sure he'd be okay with that. I'll betcha good money Dean wouldn't accuse me of wanted to "take my toys and go home" just because I am supporting someone else and arguing against Dean during the primary process.

Please don't be so arrogant as to call me a sore loser because I'm willing to debate what is the single most important question about any nominee.

[ibegurpard]

42. Hello?

You're obviously not the kind of person he's talking about.

[Bucky]

49. Howdy

Correct me if I'm wrong, but my participating in the democratic process is the "toys" referred to. I have not read a single person on DU who writes that he or she will refuse to vote for Dean if he's nominated. That's clearly what's implied by "take their toys and go home." That's the accusation and the accusation is without substance.

[ibegurpard]

53. I have seen that very sentiment expressed

But I don't believe all supporters of one candidate or another feel the same way because one purported supporter expressed that sentiment. The person you were replying to is venting...don't wear the label because it obviously doesn't fit you.

[maddezmom]

29. still ABB n/t

[Bucky]

34. Just because I'm working against Dean for the nom doesn't mean I'm not ABB

It's a little insulting to me that anyone can't see the difference. ABB means I will vote for any Democrat against Bush. I will gladly work for and support and vote for Dean if he's nominated.

But I really don't think he's our best candidate for the general election. Those two notions--that anyone's better than Bush and that Dean's not very electable--are hardly inconsistant.

[Catherine Vincent]

35. We're still here.

We're just laying low until the Clarkies, Deanies, Kerries, Kuchinichkies, Sharptonies, Liebermanies, Edwardsties, Gephardties, and the Braunies get their act together and calm down.

[killbotfactory]

36. Their candidates are facing desperate times...

so they are resorting to desperate measures...

[LeftCoast]

37. I've got my pick for nominee, but will vote ABB!

.

[Zero Division]

38. Anybody But (place popular Dem candidate here) people sometimes

drown us out. But have no doubt, we ABBers are still here. We're just trying to dodge all the flames flying overhead. :hi:

[Carni]

40. I'm a "ABBTB"

"Anybody but bush that's breathing"

[msanger]

41. we moved on...

some of us have gotten committed to a candidate, and our spending our efforts supporting the candidate rather than working the "abb" side of the street. But I think most of us are still rabidly ABB.

I still work the site, but am spending more time with

[WilliamPitt]

45. ABB comes after the nomination, Q

You're a smart guy. You know that. Before the nomination and during the primaries, we vet candidates and argue and get angry and run it all through the wash. This is how its done. Politics is a contact sport. Wear a helmet or find a new hobby.

[Q]

51. It's only a 'contact sport' because the bullies are in control...

...of the debate. That's why we have an unqualified boob in the White House instead of the person who actually won.

- What many on this board are doing can't be described as 'arguing'. They're out for blood and they don't care who they trample in the process.

- I think of elections and voting as a responsibility...not a 'hobby'. The process of elimination doesn't have to be the 'last man standing'. We shouldn't have to find dirt on the other candidates in order to make 'our guy' look better by comparison.

- Perhaps your problem is that you consider politics to be a contact sport instead of a democratic process?

[WilliamPitt]

55. It has always been a contact sport

That you do not know this tells me a lot about the value of your opinions on the matter.

[HuckleB]

50. Still ABB, but...

I'm scared. According to a poll earlier today, 20 percent of DUers are not ABB. That's a losing number, if it sticks.

[bain_sidhe]

54. NBC now, ABB later

Right now, I'm "Nobody But Clark" - I'm supporting the person that *I* personally think would make the best President. After the nominating process is complete, I'll be ABB, meaning I'll support whoever the nominee is. (Unless they somehow find a way to raise Hitler from the dead and then somehow manage to get him nominated as the Democratic candidate for President. So I guess that means I'm really AABB - Almost Anybody But Bush. I wouldn't vote for Genghis Kahn either. Or Stalin. And certainly not Mussolini. Or... well, you get my drift.)

[ComerPerro]

59. Im still here

Haven't left

[ldoolin]

60. We're still here.

See my graphic below. ABB all the way. That fascist sleaze merchant has to go.

[David Zephyr]

61. I'm With You, Q. And I Am ABB.

:thumbsup:

[Art_from_Ark]

66. ABB here, too

[LeahMira]

63. OK, Q...

I'm surprised because your posts are of the quality that when I see your name listed I make a point to read what you say on the subject. So, I'm wondering what's up with you on this one.

Are you afraid that if Dean gets the nomination, for example, the folks who like Clark or Kerry or Kucinich will write them in come November?

Are you worried that some Democrats will jump over and vote for the Green candidate if their favorite Democratic candidate doesn't get the nomination?

Are you concerned that the opinions against some of the candidates that are expressed here will give Republican lurkers ammunition to attack the eventual nominee?

Are you just generally the kind of person who would like everybody to play together nicely? (My husband sometimes tells me that I do that, even while I'm stirring up the pot, so I don't mean to offend you here.)

There have been several of these kinds of "lets show a strong front and stick together" kinds of threads appearing and I'm sort of puzzled. I really do think that folks want first and foremost to get "that man" out of the White House. So let's take a look at the question you raised, can we? Exactly what are you and others afraid might happen, worst case scenario here?

[Mairead]

64. If instead of Bush Regular, we're railroaded into Bush Lite--who wins?

If we only 'win' the status-quo-with-tweaks, then who will really have won?

[JNelson6563]

67. I'm still here

Still working like crazy to grow my local party, line up many volunteers and fatten our party's bank account so we can jump right into promoting our Candidate as soon as we know who it is.

Rock on Dems! Kick the neo-cons out!!

Julie

[Logansquare]

69. ABB all the way

They're all better than him.