Draft Hillary campaign up and running in New Hampshire

[Samantha]

I am going to apologize in advance if this is a dupe. I skimmed the threads and didn't see anything.

CSPAN just announced there are Write-in Hillary ads running in New Hampshires. A caller on the line was announced as a sponsor of the ad. When questioned as to who is paying for these ads, he answered a grass roots campaign has sprung up to write in Hillary. She is the strongest polling Democrat in America, so said the caller.

I am aware there are many Hillary fans at this site, but it appears to me the rift between the Gore-Dean alliance and the Clinton/DLC/New Dems has grown into a clearly visible war to seize the hearts and votes of the base of the party. Who will prevail?

[madfloridian]

1. Bob Kuntz.

He's doing it because we don't have any good candidates.

[IndianaGreen]

2. Hillary said she is not running

Don't these people believe her, or is this another attempt to cause trouble?

[Samantha]

5. The timing is suspect

These ads just started running today, the day after Gore publicly endorses Dean. My personal opinion is the longstanding division between the Gore wing and the Clinton wing for control over the party has just sprung into open view.

In a thread started by Seventhson probably about a year ago, I commented on this issue that Bill Clinton was influencing the DLC to ditch Gore to throw the election in 2004 so that Hillary would have a clear ride in the 2008 election. I have always believed this and I more firmly believe it now. I am sure I will get flamed for saying this but sometimes you just have to call them as you see them.

[Cleita]

14. No flames here. It's beginning to look suspiciously like that.

eom

[WhereIsMyFreedom]

41. I hadn't thought about it that way,

but what I did feel was that Gore endorsing Dean was his way of getting back at the establishment for not supporting him running again.

[bearfartinthewoods]

34. i wish she would have really denied it on MTP

with a "i am not seeking nor will i accept the nomination of my party"

it would have put an end to it better than giggling and saying 'it's not gonna happen'

[Liberal Veteran]

3. No thank you. We have 8 good candidates and that will do...

We don't need Hillary in the race as much as I respect her.

[Catch22Dem]

9. nine, right?

Who are you leaving out?

[Liberal Veteran]

12. I was referring to good candidates, so Lieberman didn't count.

:evilgrin:

[Hope4]

42. 8 dems plus clark

Why does anyone want Hillary?

I thought most on here are agaisnt the bush war and she is for it.

I still have never seen a thing she has done that has been successful. The 8 dems have done something and even clark got fired as a general.

[Name removed]

48. Deleted message

Message removed by moderator. Click here to review the message board rules.

[Gman]

4. This is an absolutely wonderful idea

Do you have a link? I wonder who to contact to get the momentum going. DU would be a great place to start getting the word out to write in Hillary.

[IndianaGreen]

6. Shame on you for saying it, and shame on you for wearing the Clark...

Shame on you for saying it, and shame on you for wearing the Clark button after saying it!

Clark is better qualified than Hillary!

Any "draft Hillary" movement is suspect!

[Samantha]

7. As a longstanding member of draftGore you might conclude I didn't note

the website address. I am really tired of people saying Hillary is the top-polling Dem in the Democratic party. That occurs only when Gore's name is left out. Additionally, the caller said Gore didn't fight back in the 2000 election and that is why this Country is in the shape it is in. Hi

It's easy to see how something as inflammatory as this could cause a huge rift within the party. However, if I were you and I truly felt she is the person I wanted to support, I would attempt to do an Internet search using "Write-in Hillary" or draftHillary and hope to locate the newly-formed Website. And good luck with your search.

[ibegurpard]

11. You forgot the sarcasm alert with your post

n/t

[goforit]

8. Truely over-rated!!!

LOL!!!!

[Samantha]

10. Hillary?

You know, I am really concerned about this. I think it is very odd this happened the day after Gore endorsed Dean. I think it is a direct reaction to Gore's endorsement. I think the New Dems are truly irate that the pendulum has started to swing out from under their control.

Additionally, I am not sure if you saw my post a couple days ago mentioning the Washington Post article about Dean. It was quite a lengthy article which ended with the words that some the Democratic party leaders were concerned about Dean's electability and his anti-war and anti-tax cut stands. These two positions put him out of the mainstream and some of the Democratic leaders openly have been saying they might do something to stop Dean. The article literally said that. My question to you is: is this it? Is Hillary the candidate the New Dems will run to stop Dean? If that is the answer, it's going to get ugly.

[Zhade]

32. Got a link to that article?

I'd be very interested in reading it. My concern over the DLC's right-leaning stance grows when I hear things like this.

[bearfartinthewoods]

36. was that the article that talked about congress people being worried

about dragging Dean around and listening to him trash anyone who voted for the war while they themselves are campaigning? do you have a link? i can't find in in my bookmarks.

[Samantha]

46. Hey, Zhade and BearFart -- I found a link to the article

http://www.washingtonpost.com/wp-dyn/articles/A43916-2003Dec7.html

This article starts out discussing Dean's comments about the Republican party seeking to divide the Country over "guns, God and gays." You have heard this discussion before. Rolls along to discuss Nixon's (hear that Pat Buchanan) dividing Americans against one another, stirring up racial prejudices "and bringing out the worst in people." That is the Repubicans "Southern Strategy" and they have used it since the days of Nixon.

but here is the show stopper I mentioned above:

"Secondly, a large number of influential Democrats, many of them former high-level advisers to President Bill Clinton and state leaders, are growing increasingly concerned that Dean's antiwar, anti-tax-cut campaign could doom the party's chances of winning back the White House and Congress. If Dean can't quickly exhibit an ability and willingness to broaden his appeal, especially in the South, these Democrats may join together in a campaign to stop him, several said."
(emphasis added)

Think back over the last four days:

Hillary goes on Meet the Press and is grilled by Russert about jumping in. For the first public time, there seems to be a slight crack in the door opening.

Monday, The Washington Post prints the above article, referencing the "influential Democrats, many of them former high-level advisers to President Bill Clinton..."

Tuesday, Al Gore publicly endorses Howard Dean. My private theory is that Gore stepped in when he saw the Clinton element attempting to do to Dean what it did to him. Gore would not stand quietly and allow this to happen because of Dean's position on the war and because it simply is not the Democratic way for a few elite to make or break a United States President. Think Renquist, Scalia, Thomas, et al. This, in my opinion, is exactly why Gore stepped in and he should be commended for it.

Wednesday, draftHillary website springs up in New Hampshire.

Wednesday, Thursday, parade of Clinton coterie commences trashing Al Gore -- Rangel, Lieberman, Kerry, Edwards, etc. These are all "New Dems" Bush-lite people. If you listen to their increased rhetoric, they reference the Clinton economic policy and criticise the repeal of the entire tax package. One of the candidates has even used the Republican rhetoric of accusing Dean of raising taxes.

It is clear this party has a huge problem, and in the ensuing days it will only escalate. Karl Rove must be loving it. His big promise a year ago as a strategy for capturing 2004 for Bush* was that he intended to divide the Dems. This he has done. But if many in our party did not consider themselves to be the elite and thus much more knowledeable about who we should choose to run, as opposed to allowing the people within the party to participate in that selection, Rove could not have divided us in this manner. It all boils down to ego, power struggles and money and the sum of those factors might cost us four more years of George W. Bush.*

I hope through talking about this problem openly we can work our way through it as opposed to allowing it to destoy us, because that's exactly what four more years of Bush* will do. And that was the point Gore tried to make in Iowa.

Further, if I were a Dean supporter, I would be truly p*ssed to see this happening to my candidate, especially after witnessing the ditching of our former frontrunner by the DLC. If they could do that to Gore, they can do it Dean. Heads up, Dean supporters.

[Zhade]

49. You just might be on to something.

Add the (at least alleged) ties between DLC and PNAC/AEI, and there could be something to this.

I'm going to do some digging on this. Let ya know if I find anything worth mentioning.

Thanks for the heads-up, btw!

[Samantha]

50. I would be very interested in learning anything your research reveals

I think this is an important discussion on several levels. The more we learn, the better we fight.

Who within the Democratic party is the current "Kingmaker." It's not Al Gore, as recently alleged, from the standpoint of control over the DLC (or DNC). Al Gore was a "target" of the DLC and had his political legs cut from beneath him even when he was polling a 50 percent approval rating among Dems shortly before the DLC started coaxing its members to publicly dissuade him not to run. A more recent poll said 84 percent of Dems approved of Gore. I translated that to mean 84 percent would vote for him.

What I see now is a parallel in the treatment Dean is receiving at the hands of the same party insiders. It's disgusting. Do Dean supporters recognize the similaries in the way Gore was treated and the way Dean is now being treated?

On a smaller scale, is the treatment of Carol Mosley-Braun, Al Sharpton and Dennis Kucinich more of the same?

What happens within the Democratic party when the will of its voters champions candidates and issues not supported by the party leaders? Is the will of the voters squashed by those who tend to pass themselves off as just not that dissimilar to Bush*? If the answer is yes, how do we subvert the grip a small elite group of people have over our "choice." Is there any difference in their mentality than that displayed by the Supreme Court Five when it negated the votes of 51 million voters in preference for one of their own political favorites? Once we learn to assert ourselves at a party level in making our issues and our candidates prevail, we only make ourselves stronger on a national level in the art of doing the same.

John Edwards said very emphatically shortly after the Gore endorsement Dean will not be the nominee. Such a declarative statement must be taken on its face and the question must be raised, says who? And what role does Hillary play in all this?

In short, we need, as Al Gore says, to keep our eyes on the prize. Once we spot trends and coteries that present a threat to our working towards and achieving our own political goals, we need to identify those threats and work to circumvent them. I don't say this in support of any one candidate; I say this in support of the base of the party having its rightful opportunity to select the candidate of its choice. As far as I can see, that translates to an anti-war, anti-tax cut, anti-special interest nominee who has in his or her heart what is in the best interests of the people.

As I said earlier, please share any results of your research with us. We are very interested in learning what is cooking beneath the political surface of our party, and we are interested in learning who exactly is stirring the pot.

[Cleita]

13. Has it occurred to anybody that maybe this

rift is being orchestrated to derail Dean? Maybe none of the establishment Democrats thought that he would get this far? So now they are bringing out the heavy artillery. I hope Senator Clinton keeps her word and finishes her Senate term like she promised. She and Bill seemed to be content in sitting this one out, so I hope they don't interfere. This would divide the party and the BFEE would be the beneficiaries.

[Samantha]

15. Exactly

This is the point I am trying to drive home, but I am surprised at the lack of reaction, especially from the Dean supporters. This New Dem versus the populists rivalry has been bubbling beneath the political surface of our party since the end of the Gore quest for the White House. It became more visible when the DLC encouraged its members to speak out against a Gore run in 2004. Think back to the poll it supposedly ran among its members and the random remarks (think Barney Frank: Gore should get out of Kerry's way) which oozed out afterwards.

Lieberman (a longstanding Clinton ally and friend), Edwards (been calling Bill as Dean has called Gore), Kerry and Gephardt are from this wing of the party. Hence their pro-war votes. Hillary is in the same club.

It's an open secret in Washington that Hillary and Gore have never gotten along. During Clinton's White House years, they were frequently at odds with each other, and the speculation has always been they were at odds because they each had conflicting political ambitions. I can't exactly be objective in this rivalry because I have always considered Gore to be one of the brightest politicians the Dems have. Hillary has some good points, but I do not think her resume can begin to compare with Gore's. Additionally, I have always assumed she and Bill Clinton helped knock Gore out of the running for 2004, a blow to the odds of our winning the election. Now that Gore has aligned with Dean, it will be interesting to see how things shake out.

I do believe with the advent of these ads the first shot has been fired by the New Dems to stop Dean. It was an inevitable war.

[burning bush]

25. Gore Fires The First Shot?

Read this:

http://www.townhall.com/columnists/patbuchanan/pb20031211.shtml

The Nixonian strategy of Al Gore

mirrors what you are saying, but hearing it come from Pat B.'s mouth may make you hesitate before repeating it :)

[Samantha]

39. There's one giant logical flaw to Buchanan's reasoning

Gore's endorsement of Dean makes him less likely as opposed to more likely to be a "compromise" candidate if the convention becomes tied up. Keeping quite and not further alienating the clique that supports the Clintons would have improved his odds. Now that the New Dems have been fired up and spoken out against Gore's endorsement today, Gore is clearly with the grass roots (formerly the populist movement), evolving squarely into the old liberal left wing element as opposed to the right-leaning (read Bush-lite) Clintonites (I support the war, I support the tax cuts), Hillary in 2008....

Did I make my point clearly? In essence, Gore could have played the middle by just keeping mum as opposed to totally alienating the right-leaning arm of the party by his hearty endorsement of Dean.

Additionally, Gore doesn't need the Dean cover to re-enter the race. He has money and he has a great following. He could have entered under the cover of the draftGore movement. That's all he would have needed.

[Samantha]

16. Bumping this thread

eom -- I can't believe more Dean supporters have not made comment on these ads. Maybe I should have made it clear -- these are television ads and 30 are planned. This is no small effort to stop Dean in New Hampshire.

[WhereIsMyFreedom]

45. Do you really think that it will draw more votes

from Dean than from the other leading candidates?

[Kenneth ken]

17. that would be a pity

we have plenty of good candidates who are willingly seeking the presidency. I don't think any useful purpose (for Dems) would be served by "drafting" a reluctant candidate.

I suppose it could be a useful COINTELPRO-type operation by the Repugnant party; they have lots of money, and could fund such tripe.

[ButterflyBlood]

18. not this bullshit

it's straight from Karl Rove's playbook. Bring up the mention of President Hillary and scare the freepers shitless, and then they start to get generous with their donations. I just can't wait to see what they'll say when the candidate is selected and it's not Hillary.

[LTR]

19. Hmmm...what's that smell...

it smells like...BUSHIT!!!

C'mon people! This has got to be a freeper thing. You know they're all obsessed with the Clintons THREE FRIGGIN' YEARS after the left the White House.

Sheesh, Hannity still talks about her every night. Makes me think he wants to have sex with her or something.

Sounds like a freeper's wet dream to me.

[Cheswick2.0]

20. it seems to me that this is a repug plan

to disprupt the primaries and split the democrats.

[ldoolin]

21. Not a good idea, I think...

...because it's too late to get a serious campaign going, and because if Hillary is the nominee, we really will (unlike with any of the other candidiates) see a 50 state sweep in 2004 for B*s*.

[Name removed]

22. Deleted message

Message removed by moderator. Click here to review the message board rules.

[oasis]

23. Clintonzilla: Two headed demon of Democrat destruction.

:tinfoilhat::tinfoilhat: Bill 'n Hill's gonna getcha.

[JustJoe]

24. This is a write-in campaign run by a guy on a website...

http://hillarynow.com/

The guy seems to be a genuine Dem activist, but
a semi-wacko who I cannot believe Hillary would
want to be associated with or drafted by under any
conditions. He boasts on his site that she hasn't
told him to cease ... yet. She ought to.

[oasis]

26. Is Hillary aware of the website?

[JustJoe]

27. I dunno. If she isn't, she will be soon

& I hope disassociates herself from it
quickly and clearly. It's as much Dean-hating
& Gore-bashing as it is plugging/pushing Hillary.
A war between Dean and the Clintons is the
last freaking thing the Clintons, Dean, the
party or the country needs or wants.

[oasis]

28. It could be a stealth Repug website. Don't put it past those sly bastards.

[JustJoe]

29. Read the guy's bio.

If he's a stealth repube he's a dedicated mofo.
He's been a gay activist for decades, worked
hard against the Florida fiasco, etc., but his
views as expressed re Dean & Gore are extremeoid.
My point is, I dont think it's going anywhere, but
if I had my druthers she would disavow it like
yesterday.

[oasis]

30. I saw their ad on C-SPAN,it was amateurish....Hillary's people would flip.

[mmonk]

43. I think she's aware of his campaign to have her

as a write in candidate but is disavowing it.

[ima_sinnic]

31. so far 119 people have signed up for HR Clinton meetup

--it appears Robert Kunst, who runs this website, has his work cut out for him.
He ran as an Independent for Florida governor in 2002: http://www.kunstforgov.com/

[jpgray]

33. Yikes! DUers overreacting a little here?

Seems like your regular ol' amateurish draft campaign. Secret conspiracy? Don't think so.

[Enjolras]

35. Answer to GOP prayers

A lot of conservatives, especially in the south, desperately WANT Hillary to run, or at least make people believe she will. The "Hillary for president" rumors you kept hearing after her election to the Senate were actually put out by RNC strategists. There may be no more polarizing figure in America. The visceral hatred of her on the far right is so intense that just the mention of her name gets money flowing to the Repug campaign coffers. They send out donation appeals with a picture of her super-imposed over the white house or the Oval Office, with a caption reading "Not in My America!!"

Repudiating Al Gore (if you can call that repudiation), or Howard Dean or John Kerry at the ballot box is one thing, but a solid, humiliating drubbing of the Democrat they consider the antiChrist would be the sweetest victory imaginable for those ignorant, hate-filled rednecks. Many are, even now, in denial of the fact that she's not running next year. Even by election day, you'll see footage of conservative Bush voters in little backwater towns -- especially in, but not limited to, the south -- burning Hillary in effigy, and singing "Ding-dong the wicked witch is dead!". Never mind that her name isn't even on the ballot.

Remember Rick Lazio's infamous "I hate Hillary" campaign in the 2000 New York Senate race? Well, on a national scale, it would be much more effective. Much of the country is a lot less moderate -- and less informed -- than New York.

[Samantha]

47. Excellent post, Enjolras, but as far as polarizing figures go

I thing Bush* gives Hillary a run for her money. He's only been at it three years now, think if he had had eight years.

Don't get me wrong. I am trying very hard not to be too critical of Hillary. But I do resent the power struggle going on within the party and the effort by a few to make our decision for us. I find that almost as offensive as I found that Supreme Court per curiam decision in Bush v. Gore . The same mentality is behind both. That thought process leads back to the days when the Constitution was being framed. Half of the participants felt the average man was not intelligent or informed enough to participate in the selection of the President of the United States, hence, the compromise was reached with the other half of the framers, those who thought the people should choose their leader, through the institution of the Electoral College mechanism.

This is the Information Age, not the Stone Age. We are informed and we have the right to choose.

[JNelson6563]

37. Idiots

They must believe a few thousand e-mails can actually convince someone to run for Prez. There's lots more like 'em.

How gullible can ya get?

Julie

[Loonman]

38. Dumbest Idea I've ever heard

I assume people would want to beat Bush in 2004.

[HuckleB]

40. You know, I would understand this if we had a weak field, but we don't!

We have a very strong field. This is energy that could be put toward winning the general election. I don't understand it.

[Stephanie]

44. There is a group out of Florida promoting this

I spoke with one of the guys who had a table set up in Times Square. This was months ago, before Clark got in the race. He was fanatical. I told him about DU - maybe he's here.