Is the nascar dad the new black?

[angee_is_mad]

Fellow DU'ers, is the nascar car dad the new black(minority) for the democratic party? Instead of getting the black or minority vote will they replace them with the white southern male vote?
What strategies will the party use to attract these men without alienating their dependable black base. Is the only way to get their vote is to go negative on social issues?
We must be honest. The southern white male vote republican because of the military and social issues and not on the economy. I am in a manufacturing state where people are getting laid off left and right because the republicans are allowing those jobs to go overseas. And they still vote republican and complain about the democrats giving the country away in handouts to minorities.

[sasquatch]

1. Do you know why NASCAR is so popular?

No black drivers. That's why southern whites like stock car racing.

[Room101]

2. My dream would be a BLACK man to dominate Nascar

I bet that would piss them hehay boys off;)A black man winning races would be an emotional orgasm for me.

[sasquatch]

6. Never happen

Nobody would sponsor him.

[arewethereyet]

9. un-true

flat out un-true.

[sasquatch]

13. Denie it all you want but it's true

Sorry to dissapoint you:(

[arewethereyet]

19. you obviously have no idea

or you would know better

[sasquatch]

26. I've got more of a idea than you do!

Do you need to see a map on who usually votes republican to democrat? I don't think I need to do I because you know that awnser.

[arewethereyet]

34. look a little closer

those horrible southern states don't vote 100% republican and 0% democrat.

Thats leaves quite a lot of PEOPLE of all colors to be marketed to. And if you don't think NASCAR knows a thing or two about marketing you would be mistaken.

[sasquatch]

45. Of course they know about marketing

They know this country is prodominantly white so they give them something that is dominated by white people. That's why NASCAR sells to white america so well especially in the south. The southern states have tradionaly went repug or repug lite democrats. I don't need history lesson to see that my friend but you do.

[pnb]

129. You don't have the first clue what you're talking about

Why is it then that hockey, a predominantly white sport, sells so much better in the north? Your association of NASCAR to this phenomenom is one of the most assinine reaches in logic I have ever seen.

According to your logic, Alabama and Mississippi should be bastions in the NHL, right?

[sasquatch]

151. That's because hockey is from Canada

There arn't a lot of minority's in Canada BTW. But that's changing everyday though.

[cindyw]

30. You have no understanding of NASCAR and how it works.

I grew up in racing and I have been involved in NASCAR racing. Up until a couple of years ago my father was the Goodyear tire distributor for NASCAR on the west coast (NASCAR is more than Cup racing). Two things can be said to be absolute truths.

1. There are few black fans because there are few blacks in racing. They do exist. Hell there are Japanese for that matter.

2. There are no black drivers because racing is a family affair. Nobody comes from nowhere and becomes a driver. It takes a life time of commitment. The idea that a driver comes from nothing and makes his mark is a myth to make the fans feel like they could do it. Many fans do on Friday nights in their home towns. Small time racing can be affordable for low income people because of the local town sponsorship advertising and because it is a team sport. But to get to BUSCH, truck or NASCAR Cup you must have either grown up in a racing family or had a family that dragged you from the age of 10 to races where kids can compete. Like drag racing, and then marketed you to every person who would listen. Like kids who get into acting.

Blacks will come to NASCAR when black families start raising their kids to be drivers. NASCAR also has a responsibility to do outreach in small towns to bring in black racers. latino too for that matter.

[arewethereyet]

38. and you could add that NASCAR has been actively promoting

blacks in racing at all levels with big bucks. There are black owners coming on-line perhaps next year (have not heard recently, perhaps cindyw has).

[sasquatch]

41. You live in California you're out of your element to make a debate

California is a racially diverse place where the races get along. Yes NASCAR is a family affair but, no sponsor will pick up a black driver because they'd lose sale's amongst NASCAR fans.

[arewethereyet]

51. and they would gain sales from a largely untapped market

getting nowhere bigfoot

[sasquatch]

55. No I'm not the. The point I make is true

A majoruty of NASCAR fans like it because it's dominated by white competitors. NASCAR is taking off in California because whites for some reason feel disinfranchised. That's why they voted in the son of a Nazi as their governor.

[arewethereyet]

59. they've been racing in California for decades

its not a new thing. Maybe some people just like it.

[sasquatch]

63. That's motorbike and dunebuggy's though

Completly different but Californians might be true race fans though.:shrug: As for the south I stick to my earlier statement because it's true.

[cindyw]

76. You are making a blanket, bigoted statement about Californians.

My father started racing here in the early 70's. Racing has been big here for a long time. The reason it was so easy to start tracks here is because there was an already established base of fans to fill the seats.

As far as the south, I think more of people there than you do. Given your obvious willingness to make blanket statements about millions of people, I am guessing that you are willing to that about southerners. Therefore your opinion is not credible to me. The south is joined by westerners and Northerners in NASCAR and we will all find a way to move forward to a more diverse sport together.

[sasquatch]

81. NASCAR isn't a sport

It isn't a blanket statement if it's true that southerners would rather stick to their racist feeling and vote repug. Even though voting repug will hurt them in every part of their lives they'll still be doing it for another 30-60 years. Anyone that considers NASCAR a sport obviously has no idea what a sport is. So their statement has no credibility. California and racing for some reason is different I don't no why but it is.

[cindyw]

83. Okay, I'm done with this.

I do not relent, but maybe you are right. You are obviously living in an alternate reality from me.

[sasquatch]

85. No I live in what is known as the real world

You live in denial and what you wish the world was. I wish the south wasn't still upset about losing the civil war. I wish they didn't consider black people as animals for hundreds of years but they did. I can't go back in time and tell them they can't have slaves or screw thier workers. I'm sorry that's how it is:( And I can't really change it.

[cindyw]

106. What strawman are you arguing against?

I never said that the south didn't have racial disparity problems or a very sad history. We were talking about NASCAR and black fans and drivers.

I think the proper term for your defense if the Wookie Defense.

[Red_Storm]

107. Should Nascar, black fans and drivers...........

be used in the same sentence ?

[sasquatch]

152. No

It shouldn't for quite a while I'm afraid:(

[pnb]

132. What is your logic or proof for that?

Exactly how do you "know" why NASCAR fans like NASCAR?

[cindyw]

56. Out of my element? The west is on the rise in NASCAR as is the Northeast.

I do not consider being from a diverse place a bad thing or something that disqualifies me. The Northeast and the west are leading on diversity issues and in NASCAR and we are getting listened to.

Racing is racing. I don't care if you are from the south or not. The sponsors of the sport make money in all parts of the country.

Did you know that NASCAR donates to Jessie jackson and his organizations. The organization is all about diversity and the future. They will lead the fans will follow.

I don't know about the black owner thing, but from what I have seen and read over the past two years, I would believe it.

[sasquatch]

60. It grows in the northeast and west because there was no growth...

out there before. NASCAR is trying to shed it's racist image but that will never happen because it's racist by virtue. You don't know what NASCAR base fans are but I do and Californians are considered "Yankees" in their book. But they'll take your money if you're willing to shill it out for such a dull sport that takes no true athletic talent.

[catzies]

145. NASCAR has races in Yankee states. California, Delaware for two.

I have NASCAR base fans in my family tree who tell me these things.

[sasquatch]

153. You forgot Indiana and Michigan

But it's core fan values lives below the Mason Dixie line though. It's there competition and they like to keep it that way though.

[Syrinx]

3. Are you serious?

NASCAR isn't just popular in the South. It's most popular in the South, because that's where it started, but it continues to gain popularity across the nation. As a Southern white male who finds auto-racing, not just NASCAR, to be mind-numbingly boring, I can't say why exactly it's so popular. But it seems your hatred for southerners is much more apparent than any hatred for blacks by white southerners. We mostly get along down here. Police beatings seem to be a lot more common in New York, Los Angeles and Cincinnatti, than in Atlanta, Birmingham or New Orleans.

[sasquatch]

5. That's because the locals do it for them

If you don't believe about racism in the south go ask Mike Malloy, Molly Ivins or Jim Hightower. They'll verify what I said is true. Why NASCAR is gaining popularity in the rest of the country? Mainly because of Appalachain culture that has spread throught the country likes to stay close to it's southern roots. Also because there are no black drivers in NASCAR. There probably never will be because nobody will sponsor one. Besides NASCAR is not a sport it's a competition which is based from criminality and religous insanity.

[angee_is_mad]

12. They said the same about Tiger

too! But I forgot he is only 1/8 black.

[sasquatch]

16. Tiger doesn't need sponsors like a NASCAR driver does though

All he really needs to do is win tournaments

[arewethereyet]

22. where do you think the money comes from ?

as is the case with many big time golfers, he most likely gives tournamant winnings to charities. Nike checks, however, go into his account.

You don't know much about professional sports do you ?

[sasquatch]

28. No you don't know anything about pro sports

Yes he get's a lot of cash from Nike. He gets his notarioty though from wining the damn tournaments. Earth to AREWETHEREYET, is anyone home.

[arewethereyet]

47. whe did he win last ? still notable

all golfers have sponsors or they would not be competing. They do not need the winnings. Even the lowest rated golfer on tour lives on his sponsorship, not his winnings and more's the pity as it's ruined golf.

[sasquatch]

53. But wining's is what get them noticed then they get the sponsors

NASCAR is purely sponsor driven though and no advertiser will sponsor a black driver. Sorry that's the awful truth.

[arewethereyet]

58. Every player on tour was a winner on some lower circuit

every driver in NASCAR was a winner on a lower circuit as well. Owners look for the winners on lower circuits for new drivers irrespective of who the driver is.

Its no different from minor league sports/competitions of all kinds.

If the were so biased the would have all southern drivers. Most of the top 25 this year were not from the south.

[arewethereyet]

17. OH I see now, you haven't a clue but you've had much beer !

Its a competition based on the ages old notion of who is faster. People have been racing whatever they can find for eons.

Some pray for safety so I guess thats where the religous insanity thing comes into play.

As for racism in the south, sure we have some as does the rest of the country and the world from what I've seen. Its just that up north is where people now get hurt over it.

[sasquatch]

24. What are you talking about?

Are you just going to slander me like Koppel did the canidates last night or are you going to use facts. Obviously you aren't going to use facts. Look Bartcop had this discussion with someone that was in denial about the south. A racer is not an athlete not by any means of the imagination. Is it dangerous yes but so are other occupations. Are people going to start showing up to watch construction workers? Hell no. Criminality part of my argument is stock car racing was comes from moonshine runners. They would have arguments on who is the best car and they would race each other. The religous insanity part of it comes from abollitionist and their insanity over alcahol.

[Catherine Vincent]

114. I didn't know that was how NASCAR derived.

You learn something new everyday.

[DoNotRefill]

126. It didn't.

Bigfoot's just blowing smoke. Car racing has been around since before prohibition. It's probably been around since the first two cars driven by kids met on the road going the same direction.

BTW, I'm descended from a moonshiner. In Ohio.

[sasquatch]

157. Not Stock Car racing though

Car racing used to be who could make the lightest one seater like formula 1 racing. Stock Car racing became popular from moonshiners in the south that ran their cars on Sunday because they didn't have anything better to do. My acesters used to make moonshine in Ohio BTW.

[DoNotRefill]

183. excuse me....

but "stock car" racing was originally about people racing "stock cars"....cars in the condition they left the factory from. The first two teenagers who met on a road and raced "stock" Model Ts or Model As were the first "stock car" racers. There's no way in HELL that such an event postdates prohibition.

[pnb]

136. Jesus H Christ!!!

You have the balls to complain about slander and the use of facts after the drivel you've spouted here and your blatant hostility towards an entire region of the country?!?

That's the damndest thing I've ever heard...

[sasquatch]

158. Calm down

I just said what a region in this country is actually like. You DLCers can't handle that.

[Syrinx]

31. Why the hell do I need to ask Mike Malloy?

I live in the South. And I visit the North all the time. We have racism in Alabama, but guess what? You've got it in Ohio, too! I'm sick and tired of people coming on here and saying that the South has the monopoly on racism. Rodney King didn't get beat down in Huntsville. That Diallo (sp?) guy didn't get buttfucked with a plunger in Biloxi. That fat guy at White Castle didn't get murdered by white cops in Savannah. Get off your sanctimonious high-horse. There is racism everywhere in this world. And there probably always will be. But I bet you there is no more of it in Tuscaloosa than in Dayton!

[sasquatch]

43. I'm not on one, I know there's racism in the North

I grew up around appalachian people all of my life and I know how they feel about minority's. The cops never kill black people in the south because the local whites beat them to it. The guy was killed in Cincinnati BTW not Dayton.

[Syrinx]

50. "local whites beat them to it"

That's just bullshit. Do you just make this stuff up?

[sasquatch]

57. No there's still lynchings in the south

Along with other racially motivated hate crimes. Ask Charles Barkley or Ricky Williams what it's like to live in the south. They;ll tell you what it's really like. I think you grew up in the city though so you probably don't know what it's like in the rural south.

[Syrinx]

71. I live in the country

And I can assure you there are no lynchings going on. It's just not true.

I don't know where you get your information.

[sasquatch]

73. How long though?

A couple of years? Wait a while you'll find out.

[Syrinx]

86. I really don't think you ever visit the south

It's just not the way you think it is.

[sasquatch]

89. You didn't awnser my question

Please do. I think you know I'm right but don't want to admit it. Look I like you southern DUers you're truly a diamond in the rough. I just wish you'd come to terms with where you live is all. I did and so should you.

[Syrinx]

98. What's your question, exactly?

I know slavery was bad. But the North was in-deep on it too.

All the good guys should unite to defeat Bush.

[sasquatch]

99. My question is how long have you lived in the country?

Look I like you southern DUers. You truly are a diamond in the rough and I admire you for that. Your region is your region and you need to come to terms with that. I've come to terms with the fact that Cincinnati is the capital of midwestern fascism. Yes Ohio is a union friendly state and a silent dem majority just waiting to explode. But living near Cincy is having to deal with the relaity of what she is. You need to do the same:)

[DoNotRefill]

127. How patronizing.

"Look I like you southern DUers you're truly a diamond in the rough."

Southern DUers are not all knuckle-dragging cretins like you insinuate. Who is guilty of stereotyping now?

I live in the mountains of VA, and have a doctorate degree. I'm not racist, either. Sure, there are racists here, but I saw a lot more people with racist attitudes in Akron and DC than I have down here.

[Isome]

111. "It's just not the way you think it is."

No, it's not. It's probably different, but worse.

[Character Assassin]

113. I see you've never been to the South

Or walked around with blinders on.

[Isome]

118. I LIVE in the south. n/t

[Character Assassin]

119. Ah, so you wear a blindfold around all day.

Thanks for clearing that up.

[Isome]

120. If I did, I wouldn't see how bad it is.

I don't wear rose-colored glasses, which is apparently what you wear. Good luck with that.

[pnb]

139. Have you ever been to the northeast?

They actually have racism there too you know. As a matter of fact, as someone who has lived in either NY or GA my entire life, I contend that NY is worse. The only reason it may even appear better to some is because segregation still exists much more so up north so there is less contact between the races.

Ask older black people who have been to many US cities and ask them what they think the most racist city to live is...the answer you'll probably here most is Boston.

I am a native northerner lived there most of my life but too many northerners need to get off their high horses regarding racism and realize that it is not a 'southern' thing.

[Isome]

143. No kidding, you don't say?

That must be WHY my friend from Boston derides the racist Irish? Is that why Charles Stuart was able to blame his wife's murder on some "black" man with a "sing-song" voice and everyone fell for it?

Interesting. I didn't know that. Who knew anywhere but the South had racists in it?

[pnb]

144. Then why do you say the south is worse?

Worse than what? The north?

"That must be WHY my friend from Boston derides the racist Irish? Is that why Charles Stuart was able to blame his wife's murder on some "black" man with a "sing-song" voice and everyone fell for it?"

What does that have to do with anything?

[Isome]

146. I said "probably different".

Not knowing WHAT they think, but knowing HOW it is, I said it is "probably" different, but worse than they realize. Is that clear to you now?

In either case, I KNOW "older Black" people, my parents, aunts & uncles (and some cousins) to begin with, and they have never said the North was worse, with regards to racism, or that the south was better. They've all said it is different. One region is known for its racism presented with a scowl, and the other's racism is presented with a big shit-eating grin.

Having lived in Illinois & Pennsylvania, I know a bit about the North as well.

The Charles Stuart fiasco represents the same racist attitudes held in the South.

[theboss]

104. Cite a lynching

I'm calling bullshit on this.

I grew up in WV. Hell, I know Klansman. Hell, I've voted for a Klansman (hello, Senator Byrd). And there aren't lynchings there.

.

[sasquatch]

160. West Virginia is in the North

Someone needs to go back to history class:eyes:

[theboss]

181. Have you ever been to Buchannon, WV?

It's not 1864 anymore. West Virginia was part of the Union - mainly because it had no slaves and hated the rest of Virginia. But it's not exactly Boston.

Perhaps you've heard our Senator speak. Hear that accent?

(Actually, I am technically from the "North," since I grew up in the tiny section of the state that is above the Mason-Dixon line.

[sasquatch]

186. Yes Byrd has a Appalachian accent

But WV isn't in the south I'm sorry as much as you wish it was it isn't ok. Hell I live in SWOhio and I have a little bit of a accent like Byrd does.

[Red_Storm]

121. Why don't you get your information straight.............

before posting..........Diallo did not get buttfucked with a plunger.....since you couldn't be bothered with getting the victims name right, afterall I'm sure you could care less who the black guy was that that happened to but it was not Diallo, so next time you decide to use a case of police brutality as an example of racism in the big city at least have enough respect for the victim by getting his or hers name right......Another thing, I think it's quite funny and ridiculous that you would try to compare race relations in the South and in the big cities and use the conduct or misconduct of police as an argument........I'm from New York but I have lived in the South, different parts of the South ( Lousiana, Texas, Oklahoma, Georgia as well as Missouri) and I can say that when comparing race relations in the South with NY and the east and northeast region in general, there is no comparison !!!!!! When I first went to the South I felt like I was in a different planet and i'm not exagerating......and when I got to witness upclose.....real upclose, the extreme and hateful prejudice that is not just a part of everyday life but absurdly enough, considered a normal part of everyday life in many parts of the South, where I was.....it was more than just an eye opener.....it changed my life.....I could give 1,001 examples of the racist acts, attitudes, that I not only saw but experienced while living in the South........and let me tell you there is NO comparison between race relations in both regions.....because in the South the concept itself has still not evolved, it's the complete opposite........and I say this, not because I read about it, or saw a movie about it, or was told about it........ I LIVED IT............

[Isome]

148. For the record:

The victim who was sodomized with a plunger is named Abner Louima. Horrific business that... unthinkable!

[rppper]

101. sasquatch is correct, i'm afraid......

and let me start this off by saying...

1)i live in daytona beach, NASCARS hq and....

2) i dated and currently befriend a lady who worked inside nascars marketing division for 5 years....this is partly her opinion and mine...

despite the fact that nascar donates to jesse jacksons project, there are currently no black drivers in winston cup or busch, nascars two biggest sanctioned bodies. i do think there is one black driver in the craftsman truck series, but i could be wrong. to race in each division, a driver must earn a nascar sanctioned drivers license...meaning they must move up through the various divisions...example...from ARCA to busch series to winston cup. you can not just get a nascar license, even if you have raced in indy or formula one...and it is not a short process. there are currently no black drivers in line for a nascar raceing license. owners? anyone can own a car, but only a certain few can drive them...

ever been to a nascar raceing event? one only has to look out into the infield to figure out who the true fans are...look at all the rebel flags...believe me, nascar see's this...they know who their fan base consists of, and they market to those masses...subliminaly and exclusively. and i will tell you from experience that there are very few blacks working for nascars offices either. not at the professional level anyhow...none of the managers or vice presidents are black, and there are few women in high places either. nascar is a good ol' boys network in real time, have no doubt about it.

and what if some of these new black owners or an outside group raise a big enough stink about no black drivers? nascar will cave...they will grant a license allright...showboat the token black driver for a season or two, then find a reason to get rid of him...drugs, aggressive driving, unfriendly to the media...whatever. tony stewart would not be driving nascar today if he wasn't so popular with the fans...he has trashed nascars directors, questioned their safety standards, hit reporters and generally been a pain in the ass to nascar, but he sells t-shirts and fans like him. he is also lilly white...

that 1% of fans supporting a black nascar driver will not constitute nascar keeping him or her around long. and that percentage number may be high. there is way to much a rebel flag element to nascars fan base for a black driver to be succesful...he will not sell merchandise and hardly any "fans" will care when he fades away...aka-loses his sponsors, wrecks to much or the above mentioned troubles. and this is how nascar will justify his or her being let go...unless he wins 10 races and leads the points race...and that is not likely to happen. i truely believe that any black driver that makes it to the winston cup series would be set up for failure.

again, look around at a nascar race...there are no black drivers, owners, crew chiefs, pit workers, officials...nothing, nada, none....and from going to nascar races all over the U.S., at least the southern U.S., i can safely say there are few if any black fans attending the races, at least not at the georgia, south carolina, north carolina, virginia and florida races i have attended...maybe 1 for every 1000 white fans...can you blame them? would you feel comfortable going where you are not wanted? and i have personally witnessed the few black fans that attend become objects of that wonderfull inbred southern hatred.

is nascar going to tell those infield fans to take down their rebel flags? not in my lifetime...they will do nothing about it now and they will continue to do so because no one will challenge them, and when they do get challenged, they have the money and or legal team to get away with it...aka-nascars donations to jesse jackson. they denied a license to a black driver a few years ago, falling back on the qualifications standards they have in place for all drivers....they said, or proved, by their own standards, that the driver in question couldn't pass the test. they were right, at least legally. when you are the sole sanctioning body for stock car raceing, you can get away with things like that.

it isn't going to happen any time soon, and if it does, it wont last long...not long enough to make a difference anyhow. nascar accepted it's first woman driver only 2 years ago to the winston cup, and only a few years earlier to the busch series. that didn't alienate the fan base because the women who were selected were both white and attractive...gave female fans someone to root for and male fans eye candy. they have yet to win or place in the top 20 of any winston cup race.

this is a quote from my former nascar employee room mate..."there is no room in nascar for a black driver....". a good portion of what i have said here came from our disscussion about this very thread. i take her at her word, not because of her beliefs...she is quite liberal , but because she worked with nascars top officials for nearly 5 years and she knows, as i do from attending their company picknicks and haveing box seats for the events in daytona sitting along side their inner office teams, managers and vice presidents.

it is all unspoken of course, but ris definatly ingrained racism throughout nascars hierarchy and their fan base. nascar is not willing to lose a sizable chunk of that base to satisfy a small minority. it will take some large entity with both money and press to change that way of thinking to, and it will be no easy task when and if it ever happens....

* ON EDIT *

i would like to say i have been a long time fan of car racing, nascar and open wheel racing. i am also a huge fan of pro football...demographics with sports mean nothing to me....it is not, or at least was never meant to be, a republican or democrat thing. i stopped attending nascar events last year, not due to money troubles, but because of the political and racial overtones they choose to exhibit and support that clashed with my personal beliefs. i still watch the races on tv, but i do not buy sanctioned nascar clothes, ashtrays, pins or whatever else they peddle. i also try to avoid the advertisers whenever possible. there are personal reasons for this as well.....

[Isome]

109. No, we don't get along... but we smile alot! n/t

[arewethereyet]

8. then why do so many southern blacks go to the races ?

face it, some of those NASCAR dads are not white. More than you would believe. Strangest of all, they sit inches away from guys with confederate flag t-shirts and if they're wearing hats with the same car number, they celebrate successes together ! Imagine that ! And no violence ! Incredible ! And in the SOUTH ! Miraculous !

Please try and avoid sterotyping.

[sasquatch]

18. I've never seen a Black NASCAR fan...ever

I work with a lot of Black people and there arn't any NASCAR fans. I think you just made that last one up:)

[arewethereyet]

23. funny, I see thousands of them at every race I've been to

don't believe me ? go to one and see for yourself.

[sasquatch]

32. You've never been to a NASCAR race you just said that to make yourself...

feel better didn't you. I've known NASCAR fans and I ask why they like the sport so much? They give the following awnsers=
-no athletic talent in order to participate
-no n******
-no black fans
-no unions so no particapants strikes


That's why there aren't any black people in NASCAR.

[arewethereyet]

42. I have a seat on the start finish line at Richmond, both races

and I occasionally go to Martinsville as well. And I've been going for years. I think I still have the ticket or pit pass from the last one, maybe I'll mail it to you. Or just watch the next race, I'll wave !

And there are blacks in NASCAR if no black drivers at the top levels.

[sasquatch]

48. Maybe a few black fans

Mainly because the south is so goddamned boring to be in you need to do something every once in a while to break up the boredom. NASCAR is not a sport so I won't watch it. Got it yet or are you to southern stupified to figure that out yet.

[arewethereyet]

54. I see you've never been in the south either

but I'll not invite you to such a horrid place.

[sasquatch]

66. Yes I have been in the south

I've got carpetbagger relatives and they live in Tennessee and South Carolina. My aunt in SC tells me about how the people she works with in her hospital hate Kennedy. When she ask why? They awnser "because he helped the n****** all of those rights." My aunt and grandma in Tennessee tell me that it isn't as bad as it is in SC but says she hears stuff simular to that a lot. Besides the south is too damned hot for me my god how do you people stand that misquito hole I'll never understand.

[pnb]

142. They never said that...

...you just said it to make yourself feel better, didn't you?

[sasquatch]

166. No they've said that

Do you need to go see what states vote red and which vote blue just to remind you of whom supports whom?

[angee_is_mad]

21. same amount in the republican

party. Just because Colin Powell is Secretary of State doesn't mean that the republican party is black friendly. Nascar is identified as a white southern male sport. 50 blacks in the stands out of 8000 doesn't change that fact.

[arewethereyet]

25. the point is sterotypes, they're wrong and libs should be above it

its a sport, guys like sports, black guys, white guys, yellow guys. And the same for women. If you don't go, you really should not make blanket generalizations.

As another poster pointed out, there is a history of blacks in stock car racing and they do compete at lower levels.

[sasquatch]

39. It isn't a stereotype if it right though

Once again NASCAR is not a sport. It never has been, it never will be. Football, Basketball, Baseball and Hockey are sports. NASCAR isn't a sport it's a competition. Pornography has more right to call itself a sport than NASCAR does.

[arewethereyet]

44. ok, same post as before, sub "competition" for "sport"

your sterotyping and you're not doing it well.

[sasquatch]

49. It's not stereotyping if it's true though

Jesus can't you get that through your head yet.

[arewethereyet]

61. yes I do

apparantly you can't

its just not true no matter how badly you want it to be.

[sasquatch]

67. Yes it is no matter how bad you don't want it too be

Why do people prefer to live in the suburbs? No minority's. Why do people in the south love stock car racing? No black drivers and anyone can do it. Look it's ok to like NASCAR I won't hate you or anyone else because of that. Do you understand yet?

[DoNotRefill]

128. So how do you explain....

the lack of minorities competing in professional hockey?

Must be a racist sport, right?

[sasquatch]

167. Hockey is from Canada

Where there arn't many minority's. But from what I understand that's changing everyday though. So look forward to black hockey stars my DU friends.:)

[DoNotRefill]

184. nice generalization.

there aren't many minorities in Canada? Where did THAT factoid come from?

[sasquatch]

36. Not only Angee_is_mad, but she is right as well

Sorry people that keep the shade over their eyes:)

[nn2004]

108. Do you have any kind of proof to back that up?

Where did you come up with that idea?

[sasquatch]

169. Just from the local appalachian culture around me

If you see a stock car sticker on their truck you'll se a confederate flag most of the time as well.

[NoMoreRedInk]

112. Most ignorant post I've ever read*********

nm

[sasquatch]

168. Excuse me

But you've obviously haven't been here that long.

[TSElliott]

124. Hmmmm, Wonder why Hockey is so popular in Cadada?

n/t

[sasquatch]

170. Because it's their national sport!

HELLO!! EARTH TO BUELER

[DoNotRefill]

125. Come on.

I'm sure that lots of NASCAR fans also watch other sports, most of which DO have minority athletes participating. I don't think there are many blacks who play professional ice hockey. Does this mean hockey fans are racists?

Could it be that NASCAR fans just like to watch cars go really fast?

[sasquatch]

171. First of all NASCAR is not a sport

But you're average southerner likes stock car for those main reasons though.

[pnb]

130. What about the others who like NASCAR?

You know, those who aren't southern whites?

[sasquatch]

172. It could be for legitimate or reasons I listed

They just might like the fact that something they see on I-75 is doing over 200mph's:shrug: Who really knows about the non-southern stock car fan?

[Solomon]

182. "Do you know why Nascar is so popular?"

Because black athletes have dominated football, basketball, and baseball. If and when blacks get into Nascar and start winning, then a "new" sport will be invented or become popular, a "sport" dominated by whites.

[sasquatch]

187. Thank you for seeing it as it is

:)

[DianeG5385]

4. I hope not

Im not a dad but a mom, I'm not black, but I am an educated progressive woman who lives in No Calif. who also LOVES NASCAR!!!! There are MANY like me who love the cars and never gave a thought to politics until it became a "demographic". Problem is, they got it WRONG!!! It's like trying to get a football or baseball demographic. It is beyond politics. Hey!!! I can't explain it, I just LOVE IT!!! Went to SEARS POINT and saw Dale JR. and Tony Stewart. Bought souveniers. I am an executive and a liberal. I support Dean or Clark. Don't pander to me, I've got your number and I know who I'm going to support and it is NOT BUSH!!!

[sasquatch]

11. Yes it is a demographic

You might be one of the few NASCAR fans that I know that truly just like cars. NASCAR is popular because there aren't any black drivers. Football, Basketball and Baseball don't have the same racial barriers as NASCAR. Mainly because you've got to have actual athletic talent not just the ability to drive a car and put up with heat.

[1songbird]

7. What's ironic is that blacks at one time played a huge part in racing

during segregation. Racing was a popular past time for blacks at one time. Just a historical note.

[QC]

10. I'm tired of these meaningless but cutesy categories the mediawhores

invent to describe large groups of people.

Angry White Males.

Soccer Moms.

Security Moms.

NASCAR Dads.

Of course the mediawhores do this, but we don't have to go along with it. How about we describe this demographic as "working class"? That's a nice, old term that takes in men, women, blacks, whites, Latinos, Asians, Southerners, Seattleites, Protestants, Catholics, South Bostonians, what have you.

Put those people together and you can't lose.

[rumguy]

20. Yeah what ever happened to the "Soccer Moms"

Do they not vote anymore? Fuck the media and their lame ass nascar dads. Another Rove meme propogated far and wide. I wish we could have another civil war, I'd love to kick the South's ass again!

[KaraokeKarlton]

14. This is ridiculous stereotyping, and it's false

All kinds of people like Nascar. It doesn't have anything to do with income, race or region. Nascar is very popular in both NH and Vermont. It's popular among the poor, the middle class, upper middle class and wealthy. Basically, Nascar appeals to people who like fast cars. I can't speak for all other areas, but I can talk a little bit about what I see regarding the majority of Nascar fans in Vermont and NH. These racing enthusiasts also usually like snowmobiling, hunting, fishing, camping, ATVs and football. If the Nascar fans in other parts of the country are anything at all like the Nascar fans in my neck of the woods the reason they tend to vote Republican is because they don't trust Democrats on the gun issue. Every Nascar fan (the men at least) are also gun enthusiasts who hunt. A lot of Democrats don't want to hear this, so they pretend guns don't hurt them. They do.

[angee_is_mad]

27. Let's be for real

When the democrats are talking about nascar dads, they are not talking about nascar fans in the North or on the west coast. They are talking about the south.
The point of my thread wasn't the pros and cons of nascar, but what would the democrats do to attract this group(southern)without alienating their dependable base.

[KaraokeKarlton]

37. You're still stereotyping

Not all southern working class men like Nascar. If you want to appeal to anyone regardless of where the live or what they like you need to appeal to the things EVERYONE cares about and is concerned with. Health Care, Education, Jobs, the Economy and any other issue that just about everyone can actually agree on regardless of what party they belong to or most sympathize with. Focus on the issues you have in common with the group of voters you want to win over and don't allow the discussion to be about issues that divide. Answer any questions, frame those issues in a common sense way when it gets brought up and keep going back to the issues that unite. This will work wonders with ANY group of voters. It's all about embracing what you have in common while respecting the differences.

[QC]

40. Exactly! Social class takes in race, region, gender, etc.

It can be a powerful unifying force in the hands of politicians who are willing to use it.

[angee_is_mad]

46. that's nice and pretty

But i am learning that politics isn't nice and pretty. Of course, not all southern white men are nascar fans. I am not the one who thought up the label, the party did. The party want to attract the nascar dads. These are their words not mine.
I just want to know what the party plan to do to attract them and also why do the nascar dads vote republican? The democratic party feels that they vote republican. There is no reason to try to attract something that you already have right?
Remember when Clinton got booed at a nascar race?

[KaraokeKarlton]

52. big sigh

Unfortunately, you missed the entire point of my post because you are working too hard to search for some secret hidden answer when it's right there under your nose and so obvious that it always gets overlooked.

Why do people try to make things so much more difficult than they need to be or actually are?

[angee_is_mad]

69. double sigh

you are missing the purpose of my original post. Please read it. This is not about whether or not nascar is good,redneck or exclusively southern.
It was about the possible strategy of the democratic party to attract the "Nascar Dads" from the republican.

[KaraokeKarlton]

74. And I clearly told you exactly what strategy would work

two posts ago and you totally missed it.

Perhaps you would rather offend other DU members than actually discuss a way to unite the southern working class vote regardless of race. I have to say that is the impression I'm getting.

[angee_is_mad]

80. that is your right

and my purpose is not to offend, but I refuse to apologize for asking a question, even if it makes some people uncomfortable.
If you think that this is offensive, that is certainly your right. This is a free country after all.

[sasquatch]

70. No she isn't. It isn't stereotyping if it's true

You can deny it all you want but it's true. Besides screw the knucledgragging, inbred racist south. If they want to hurt themselves by voting for racist repugs let'em.

[KaraokeKarlton]

78. My nephew lives in the south and he loves Nascar

His knuckles don't drag, he's not "inbred" and he's not "racist". He's also not white, he's black. Gee, I guess that blows your claim out of the water.

:eyes:

[sasquatch]

82. What are a majority of NASCAR fans though?

White knuckle dragging racist. The reason why he loves NASCAR is because that is basically all that goes on in the south year round. It's a very boring and hot place.

[KaraokeKarlton]

91. Gee, thanks for calling me a white knuckle dragging racist

I really appreciate it. Are you going to call me a white cracker next? How about a "honkey"?

I spent several years in 3 different southern states.

Perhaps you don't realize this, but you, my dear, are part of the problem between the races in this country. Your behavior is befitting of those very "types" of people you are complaining about. Now why don't you tell me just what about the chip on your shoulder and bad attitude in your busy little typing fingers does to help race relations? Do you honestly think inciting hatred is the answer? If you do, and someone treats you with disrespect they didn't do it because of your race, they did it because you're behaving like a jackass.

[sasquatch]

94. I said majority not all

Read what I write or are you willfully ignorant like a majority of southerners?

[KaraokeKarlton]

97. Oh for the love of God...

I'm done with this discussion. I was really in a good mood until I started reading all this negativity and hatred. And yes, that's exactly what it is.

[sasquatch]

100. No it isn't

The reality of the south is what the angee_is_mad said earlier. You can keep the cloak over your head all you want but it won't change a goddamned thing about the south. A majority of southerners would rather take their hatred out on minority's than the corporations that laid them off. The majority of southerners would rather send their kids to crappy schools with no future except to be cannon fodder for the armed services than have higher taxes. That's the stone cold reallity of the south and I know that because my carpetbagger realitives point it out to me.

[Character Assassin]

110. The majority of morons extrapolate with personal anecdotes

Exactly like you're doing here.

That's the stone cold reallity of the south and I know that because my carpetbagger realitives point it out to me.

I see you believe that a sample base of one somehow, magically, justifies your extrapolating its characteristics over the 'majority' of Southerns.

Up your dosage, Einstein.

[Isome]

140. "...morons extrapolate with personal anecdotes"

Personal anecdotes like the one that contends there are "thousands" of Black fans at the NASCAR races they attend?

[theboss]

122. One piece of data would be helpful

Hell, one anecdote would be helpful.

It's like you are building an entire case against the South based on something you saw in a Joel Schumacher movie.

[sasquatch]

161. Look around for crying out loud!!

And get a clue:think:

[DoNotRefill]

131. the high here today is 40....

the low in the teens. We've got around 6 inches of snow left on the ground. And we're below the Mason-Dixon line.

I'm ashamed to have the same party affiliation as you do.

[theboss]

185. A bigot is a bigot is a bigot

Doesn't matter if he hates Jews or blacks or white men.

[rumguy]

15. Screw the nascar dads and screw the South!

I'm so sick of hearing about these people. Fuck 'em, and fuck the South...it's all media manufactured garbage!

[arewethereyet]

29. been into the rum again rum guy ? asprin before bed

it'll help with the hangover.

I'm a NASCAR Dad and southern but I think I'll just ignore your charming remarks. Its not like its unusual around here.

[rumguy]

62. What I'm sick to death of is

all the "oh the dems don't understand the south" crap. How come we never hear how "the repukes don't understand the west coast, or the northeast?"

I'm sick of the south dominating our political landscape. I'm sick of having to pander to them.

I'm sick of how the pretend they're the "real americans". God I hate that crap. Well I'm from the American West, and I can gurantee we are a hell of a lot more bad ass than those lame ass saps that hang around racetracks sucking down hot dogs and cheap beer.

Bring it on baby! Fuck the South!

[sasquatch]

72. No I agree with him because are southern apeasing get's us nowhere

We end up trying to nominate republican lite everytime to get the knuckledragging whites to vote for us. If they want to make their lives a living hell they can go ahead just don't make mine one.

[ronzo]

33. You know,

That's just the sort of thing that southern Democrats love to hear.
I'll leave it at that.

ronzo

[sasquatch]

75. Look southern dems, I have this to say about you

God bless you one and all. You truly are a diamond in the rough but it's your region that predominantly votes republican though. If your region does go dem it's usually for a dem light like Zell Miller or Bill Clinton.

[DoNotRefill]

133. Well....

My state governor is a (D). My Congressional Representative is a (D). My State rep is a (D). And I live in an area where NASCAR is popular.

And if anybody in this thread is dragging their knuckles, it's YOU.

[sasquatch]

173. If you live in WV you don't live in the south

During the Civil War the western part of Virginia seperated and became it's own state. Hence forth you live in the (D) friendly northern appalachian state of West Virginia. Which southerners I know call "fake Virginia".

[DoNotRefill]

178. Heh....

If you call somebody from WVA a Yankee, they'd most likely be upset. Most of WVA is below the Mason Dixon line. Most of the industry there has been of an extractive nature, not a manufacturing nature. By just about any criteria out there, west Virginia is a southern state. Not Confederate, but Southern.

[incontrovertible]

35. Well, okay then,

tell your neighbors to stop moving here by the millions, and we can just go right on being fucked.

Texas, that festering scumpit of cacti and oil spills that Yankees like to imagine, picked up two Congressional seats last census. We took them from New York.

[rumguy]

68. I lived in New Mexico for awhile

and they were all sick of the loud, rude, ignorant, lame ass, inbred, wanna-be outdoorsy Texans that would invade that wonderful state.

Thus giving rise to the wonderful saying - "IF GOD WANTED TEXANS TO SKI HE WOULD HAVE MADE BULLSHIT WHITE!"

Texans: wanna-be tough guys, wanna-be outdoorsmen, phonies.

I grew up in Montana and there are some aweful game ranches in MT where rich dudes come to "hunt" semi-tame Elk. Some of the biggest patronts of these foul disgusting evil places were those lame-ass wanna-bes: the Texans.

And yes I know there are good Texans. But Texas, and the rest of the south, DO NOT, represent the "real america" anymore than any other part of this country does.

[sasquatch]

77. Are neighbors only move there because the company moves there...

because you've got those anti-union right to work states. I like Texans and know there are some real good people from Texas. But the south is the south and there's nothing you can do to change that.

[K8-EEE]

64. We Don't Need Them!

OMG!! I'm from L.A., I went to one NASCAR thing in Reno when I was visiting relatives, like, 15 or 16 years old there were just a lot rednecks there and LOUD ENGINES and LOUD REDNECKS and what I considered REALLY OLD GUYS drinking beer and being gross and...gross.

ROUND AND ROUND AND VERY LOUD AND NOT TOO SMART AND GET ME OUT OF HERE!

That was my impression, I'm sure all the lovers of this "sport" will start screaming at me go ahead....I CAN'T HEAR YOU! RRRRRR!!! RRRRR!!!

[QC]

65. Wow. That was an intelligent post.

:eyes:

[sasquatch]

84. It's the truth though

You can call offensive if you want but it's true. Besides if we win back Ohio, West Virginia and keep Pennsylvania we don't need one southern state.

[DoNotRefill]

134. Is West Virginia NORTHERN now???

That's news to me....

[sasquatch]

162. It always has been!!!

Gee is the fact that Paul McCartney was in a band before wings be news to you?:shrug:

[DoNotRefill]

179. By what criteria?

Southern doesn't mean "Confederate"...

[sasquatch]

188. Yes it does

When one talks about the "south" they generaly talk about the old states of the Confederacy. Considering West Virginia broke away and became it's own state and stayed with the union. So henceforth it is a northern appalachain state.

[QC]

88. Hmmm. Looks like Ignored is trying to say something to me.

[deminflorida]

79. Remember they're not NASCAR Dad's...Remember what Dean

Called Them, Keep it up....as we say down south...plant corn seeds and you get corn.

"After Dean's speech, he called people to come forward to register to vote. Those who came forward included a man wearing a coat decorated with a Confederate flag."

http://www.heraldtribune.com/apps/pbcs.dll/article?AID=/20031207/APN/312070859

[sasquatch]

87. The only thing Howard Dean is guilty of is saying what is true

And people that live in the south but don't like to see what their nieghbors are don't like it because it is true.

[Arwennick]

90. Nascar Dads Unite!

Actually I'm a Nascar Grandpa.I've been going to races for 35 years.There are Black Nascar Fans.I've seen them in Daytona,Talledega,Brisol,and Darlington.Each year I see more blacks at the races.It will increase as soon as some more blacks get involved in the local tracks first.Here is a site which should tell you more about Blacks and Nascar.The first Nascar race won by a black man was in 1963.

www.nascar.com/2003/news/headlines/wc/11/06/bc.car.nascar.driveford.apl-43k

[Arwennick]

92. Correction on the link for

Blacks and Nascar

http//www.nascar.com/2003/news/headlines/wc/11/06/bc.car.nascar.driveford.ap/

[Arwennick]

95. I'll try once more

http//www.nascar.com/2003/news/headlines/wc/11/06/bc.car.nascar.driveford.ap/

[Arwennick]

96. I give up

n/t

[sasquatch]

93. I hope everybody in America votes for dems

But us hopeing to get NASCAR dads as we call them is ridiculas. They vote repug for a reason and NASCAR is still a white dominated sport and will continue to be for another 30 years I'm affraid. You can watch whatever you want to watch ok, I'm fine with that. I personally think NASCAR isn't a sport. Football, Baseball, Basketball and Hockey are sports. NASCAR is a competition not a sport. Never has been never will be. I don't cars how many people watch NASCAR it still isn't a sport.

[angee_is_mad]

103. thank you

for at least attempting to answer my original thread about the dems trying to attract nascar dads. Once again this isn't whether or not it is a real sport or not. This isn't about how nascar has grown out into the north and the westcoast.
This is about democratic party stating that they will like to attract the nascar dads and the ways they could possibly do to attract them.
Also, why is there a perception that nascar dads vote republican? If this is true why do the vote republican? My perception is that most nascar fans are working class people. So why do they vote republican?

[Name removed]

102. Deleted message

Message removed by moderator. Click here to review the message board rules.

[relaf]

105. in general

I personally think NASCAR sucks, but only because it is boring and I don't like motor sports in general(F1 maybe). Then again, I don't like the NBA because it is boring, contrived, and seems fixed at times. It all comes to down to personal preferences. To make blanket statements about one sport's fan base is painting with quite a broad brush. Plus, I think attracting so-called NASCAR dad's is pretty lame, what about NFL dad's? Seems all pretty irrelevant me.

[SmokeyBlues]

137. Please explain this comment...

"The simple fact is that it is difficult to attract blacks to ANY form or racing ANYWHERE in the world. They grow up wanting to play the stick and ball sports."

I never knew this. What is your source of information, or is your comment based on a 'gut' feeling? Please help this Black person understand.

[Isome]

138. "They grow up wanting to play the stick and ball sports."

How do you know that? Did you do a study, a survery? How did you become so knowledgeable about what Black children grow up wanting to do?

Is is that "stick & ball sports" are a sure way into a free college education? Since my son LOVED racing as a little boy, is he no longer interested in it?

What makes those sports so attractive to Black kids, since you're holding yourself out as an authority?

[Name removed]

163. Deleted message

Message removed by moderator. Click here to review the message board rules.

[Name removed]

177. Deleted message

Message removed by moderator. Click here to review the message board rules.

[Elwood P Dowd]

176. That's what my black friends tell me.

What else can I say? They tell me they were raised on football, basketball, and baseball and could care less about any of the other sports, including racing, golf, hockey, swimming, soccer, and a few others.
I only know one black person that’s interested in boxing, and blacks dominate that sport.

NASCAR, and any other form of automobile racing, is unique as far as participation is concerned. You have to own a racing machine to get started. You cannot simply put on some tennis shoes and try out for the team. Once you start racing, you have to work your way up through various divisions. You can start with midgets or basic stocks as a teenager and work your way up to the entry levels of NASCAR, IRL, or CART. Not all drivers are like Jeff Gordon who started racing midgets in California and Indiana before he was 7 years old. Many are in their 30s before they start making a decent living. The idea of investing all this money and a decade or more of racing to have a chance of “making it” doesn’t appeal to either race as much as the stick and ball sports, but for almost a hundred years there has always been a small fraction of white people that pursued auto racing. They were doing in the early 1900s when the Brickyard was first built in Indianapolis, and it had absolutely nothing to do with racism. Blacks were not allowed to participate in any professional sports back then.

Racing never had much TV exposure, but with the recent packages signed with Fox and NBC you will see more minority youths become interested in the sport. They will grow up watching the sport on television, and some will follow the same paths as those before them that grew up watching the stick and ball sports and went on to become superstars. It’s not going to happen overnight, because that is impossible with a sport where you have to drive at speeds of upwards to 200 MPH with 42 other cars around you. That takes years of experience to perfect as the drivers work their way up from short tracks to the big leagues, but it will happen. A Tiger Woods of auto racing will show one day. Bank on it.
Unless.........the Bush family is allowed to run amuck indefinitely and bankrupt this country.

[wtmusic]

159. Thanks Elwood, good post

and welcome to DU!

:bounce: :toast: :bounce:

[Name removed]

165. Deleted message

Message removed by moderator. Click here to review the message board rules.

[sasquatch]

164. First of all NASCAR is not a sport

Second Golf is for the rich and elitest and I would pick on them but this thread is about NASCAR. Hockey is from Canada and there arn't a lot of black people in Canada. From what I understand that is changeing everyday though because of the fascist grip on the us. Don't you ever fucking dare say I'm the reson why this party is dying. I'm not the one that likes it when Dems try to act like Repugs so they might get a few yuppie votes. I'm not the one that supported IWR and I was upset when it passed through a Dem controlled senate.

[littlejoe]

115. If Dale Earnhart was so good, why is he dead?

[Character Assassin]

116. If Einstein was so smart, why couldn't he accept quantum theory?

[wtmusic]

156. He had no problem with quanta, it was Heisenberg's

uncertainty principle he didn't like--'God does not play dice'.

Sorry, off topic. What does Dale Earnhardt think of uncertainty?

[Isome]

117. NASCAR is just new codespeak.

In the same vein as "soccer moms" and "welfare queens". It was coined to speak to the latent racist in many people.

[sasquatch]

174. You're probably right!

It's just purely that but the people they talk about though don't live in Vermont. They live in Alabama.

[Catherine Vincent]

123. Interesting posts from everybody.

Not a fan of NASCAR. I have never been to one of their games. There may be some blacks that go but a lot of my friends and family don't even discuss NASCAR. I don't know why. Btw, I am black. Who knows? Maybe in a few years more blacks and hispanics will start liking it. Give it time.

[Snivi Yllom]

135. I find the labeling of any American discusting

Especially when any group is targeted politically to be used for its vote.

[HFishbine]

141. Do you know what NASCAR fans favorite position is?

Doggie style. So they can both watch the race.

[wtmusic]

154. lol good 'un

I thought, this has to have the word 'pole' in it :-)

[sasquatch]

175. LOL...No wonder it was banned in the south for all those years

The preacher man had his panties in a bunch over that.

[helleborient]

147. The racist stereotyping in this thread is downright embarrassing...

In the racist stereotyping that has been rampant in sports over the years...I've heard that white people like to watch black athletes in basketball and football because they enjoy watching gladiators...how obscene. Now, we hear another side that white people like to watch automobile racing because they don't want to see black people. That's just as obscene. Do you get to have both??

For whatever reason, there are simply a lot of people that like to watch cars race around in circles. I've seen the redneck label slapped wholesale on fans of professional wrestling as well...and I would assume racist would follow quickly, although there are a number of black professional wrestlers, and have been for decades.

Maybe people just enjoy the spectacle, competition, and yes, the background soap opera that goes with all of sports.

I've assumed that the Democratic Party was THE party that worked hard to fight racial stereotyping, but when I read threads like this, it is depressing.

[Isome]

149. I've heard the fans of football...

compared to the Roman people's bloodlust gladiators often. I've not heard it specifically refer to Blacks on the field though. That would be too odd.

However, for some, the sadder part is the rampant denial of ongoing bigotry, expressed in codespeak that is deciphered as soon as the words leave the lips of the speaker.

[Character Assassin]

150. That's because racism knows no pigmentation barrier.

And non-whites can be equally as myopic and racist as whites.

The more things change....

[wtmusic]

155. The spelling in this thread is downright embarrassing...

(not you, hb)

:silly:

[DinkyDem]

180. ALL OF YOU

are about as clueless and full of bigotted stereotypes on both the South AND African-Americans as Howard Dean.

You all need to re-read your posts REAL close and you'll discover the reason why Democrats have lost the South.
Or... if you can't figure it out, I'll spell it out for you:
YOU AND YOUR MENTALITY IS THE REASON!

For all the railing we Democrats do against Racist Republicans, many of us seem to be blind to the racism that runs through our own Party and attitudes -or- perhaps we think we are immune because we are too "Progressive" for that -or- perhaps we just don't care because we don't think it can stick to Democrats.

This is embarassing.