NYC Smoking ban leaves nightclub staff in the lurch, layoffs mount

[Loonman]

http://pqasb.pqarchiver.com/nypost/488404161.html?did=488404161&FMT=ABS&FMTS=FT&desc=CLUBS+BLAME+SMOKING+BAN+FOR+STAFF+CUTBACKS


THE NEW York Nightlife Association is trumpeting a new survey that it says proves Mayor Bloomberg's smoking ban has crippled the city's nightlife industry. The survey, conducted by International Com munications Research of 300 bars, hotel lounges and nightclubs, found that 34 percent of bars, hotels and nightclubs have reduced staff by an average 18 percent since the ban took effect, and 74 percent of those establish ments blame the layoffs on the ban. The survey also showed that 76 per cent of them have lost customers by an average of 30 percent. And 78 percent of businesses reported a negative impact on their businesses. "Before the smoking ban was passed, we told government leaders that bars and nightclubs would take the brunt of the economic fallout," said NYNA president David Rabin. "This survey confirms that devasta tion. The smoking ban is driving a multibillion-dollar nightlife industry into the ground."

[creativelcro]

1. they can blame it on the ban, but it's BS.

It's a campaign mounted by the tobacco industry.

[Rainbowreflect]

3. I agree.

It makes no sense. If 80% of the public does not smoke why would this happen.
My city is looking into a smoking ban. If it passes I will start going to the bars again. Right now I cannot, for health reasons, even go into a bar that allow smoking.

[cigarstore]

7. Baloney

As my name implies, I enjoy a good cigar now and then. Why not require some kind of ventilation that would allieviate the SO-CALLED second hand smoke problem?

Next it will be fatty foods, then too much TV watching, then physical fitness mandated by the government. Notice I left out booze because most of the governing class like to get hammered now and then.

There's a saying about Calvanists that I think applies here: "Calvanists are afraid that someone, somewhere may be enjoying themselves."

[Loonman]

8. "second-hand" smoke is a bogeyman

It's only been proven to be an irritant, not a health risk.


Patchouli irritates my nose, should we ban that shit, too?

[creativelcro]

24. oh yeah ? http://www.epa.gov/iaq/pubs/strsfs.html

Inform yourself before you speak on these issues...

http://www.epa.gov/iaq/pubs/strsfs.html

[Loonman]

30. cause cancer at typical environmental levels.

cause cancer at typical environmental levels.


Now I wonder what that means.....

If you live in a city with lots of bus and car traffic, you're a smoker and you don't even know it.

[creativelcro]

46. yes, so why should people be smoking two packs instead of just one ?

[really-looney]

70. From one Looney to another

I am a bartender. I have been for the past 18 years. I do not smoke. I have in the past. I work 3 nights a week I start having nicotine fits with in 1/2 hour of walking in the bar. The mornings that I work I wake up coughing up some nasty shit. Second hand smoke is an irritant and to those with health problems it is a health risk.

Having said all that, if you are not happy in a smokey bar go to one with less smoke or one that the owner chooses top make non smoking. I choose to work in a smokey bar. Is it the best thing for my health, most likely not? I can think of jobs that are much more dangerous than showing up to work in a smokey bar. I can also think of plenty of a job where I can make a lot less money and that is a bad thing with two children.

Dont fool yourself smoking is more than an irritant

[FlaGranny]

73. Speaking from the perspective

of having a mother who had lung cancer (the kind caused by smoking) but who never smoked a day in her life, I must disagree. She was very social and every one of her friends smoked and she breathed their smoke for many years. Her cancer was caught early and she survived it. In fact, she survived all her smoking friends by many years.

[creativelcro]

45. The famous ventilation solution....

Why don't you start a smokers only bar and have your kids work in it full-time ?... That would be an acceptable solution....

[Loonman]

50. Oh it's "for the children"

:eyes:

[creativelcro]

52. what children ? Adults get cancer from 2ndhand smoke too...

[OhioStateProgressive]

59. do you drive a car?(nt)

[radwriter0555]

28. The nightclubs in Los Angeles on the Sunset Strip are doing FINE...

ALL of them.

This is a bogus report.

[creativelcro]

31. agreed on that. if NYC is in financial bad shape that is not caused by

the smoking ban...

[theboss]

36. It's not 22 degrees in January in LA

It's easy to light a cignaretter on a patio while wearing a cool vintage t-shirt. Now try to light a cigarette at 12:30 AM in a driving snowstorm in the Village while wearing a parka.

[creativelcro]

49. smoke in your freaking home man...

[theboss]

78. I don't smoke, man

Why does everyone think that I have to have an agenda when I make an arugment? I criticize Dean so I must like Clark. I criticize smoking bans so I must smoke.

Is life really this simplistic?

[Loonman]

58. Maybe because the article is about NYC, not LA?

:eyes:

[AP]

82. it's funny that it isn't the Bush economy that is killing business, it's

unfairness to a death-merchant which happens to have close links to the Bush administration.

[Loonman]

2. It's anti-smoking busybodies

Telling people what to do and when and where to do it.

[trumad]

4. Well those anti-smoking busybodies are the majority

who want the no good inconsiderate Cancerites to stop blowing smoke in their space.... I see no reason for smokers to not have their own little space for suicide I:E outside......

[wakfs]

9. It's legal

Get over it.

If smoking tobacco is legal then smokers should be free to smoke period. You don't like it? Don't go where the smokers are.

I can't stand stupidity and greed but those are legal too. I have no choice but to endure stupid and greedy people. Same thing with smokers.

ON EDIT: By the way, I'm a non-smoker.

[trumad]

15. That's right it's legal... But guess what

It's not legal to smoke in a public place in Florida.... So get over it! It's the law!

[Cascadian]

53. Like I said....

let's just ban alcohol (sarcasm). Listen. Prohibitions have never worked. Never have and never will! It will just make some people want it more. Driving cars is bad for the atmosphere and more deadlier than a cigarette, maybe we should ban that too. Look. I don't smoke (my choice!) but this call for a prohibition is just absurd! Sure it's a bad habit but so is drinking alcohol!


John

[FlaGranny]

74. Drinking alcohol does not

cause a problem for the person sitting next to you. The alcohol cannot migrate over into his personal space. It is illegal to drink and drive, though, because that can cause harm to others. Simple.

[creativelcro]

25. Absolutely. PLUS I'm entirely sick

of subsidizing health insurance for suicidal idiots who develop all sort of (preventable) diseases when they are still young.

[MadHound]

69. Ahh here we go folks, the slippery slope

"Plus I'm entirely sick of subsidizing health insurance for suicidal idiots who develop all sort of (preventable) diseases when they are still young."

So now are you wanting to ban cigarettes because you feel they drive up health insurance costs? Grab a frikkin' clue friend, life is terminal. Tell me, do you drink? Drive a car? Mow your own lawn? Live in a city? Eat fast food? Then you too are a "suicidal idiot" who will develop all sort of preventable diseases.

Besides, if you would go out and do some research, you will find that the reason why insurance companies are jacking up their rates is mainly because they've taken a bath in the financial markets the past three years and are trying to recoup their losses. But hey, why let the facts of the situation get in the way of a good anti smoker rant, eh?

Nannyism like yours friend is partly why the Dems get a bad name.

[theboss]

40. I always thought we were the party of the minority

I'm a non-smoker (except when I get really really drunk), but I think it is borderline Un-American to ban smoking in a bar.

I'm waiting for the day they digitally remove Bogarts ciggie in Casablanca.

[pnb]

48. What makes it "your" space?

What makes space the automatic property of non-smokers? Why can't non-smokers go outside for their own space?

[WhoCountsTheVotes]

5. Smoking is air pollution

It's an environmental hazard.

[radwriter0555]

26. Smoking is DEADLY. I smoked for 20+ years, and watched a dear friend

die last year from lung cancer. He was only 52 and it took almost 5 years for him to die.

He spent his LIFE in nightclubs and concert halls, and smoked a pack of marlboros a day. (He was the drummer for a very famous band until his death.)

I spent my younger years in those same smokey clubs and concert halls, and I hope that somehow I haven't contracted cancer from all the exposure.

I hope others don't contract cancer due to my smoking and putting them in harm's way.

Trust me, people don't NOT go to an event because they can't smoke. They might drink less, but if someone wants to see a show or party, they're going to see a show and party regardless if they can smoke or not.

[creativelcro]

32. these single cases mean nothing.... Sorry....

Statistically there is PLENTY of evidence http://www.epa.gov/iaq/pubs/strsfs.html. There are many people who smoke and don't get cancer. But on average the risk is higher... No question about it.

[WhoCountsTheVotes]

65. people who smoke and don't get cancer died from emphazema

I don't care what tobacco corporations say, the scientific data is clear and consistent - smoking is deadly and addictive, and second hand smoke is deadly too.

[theboss]

76. Of course smoking is bad for you

No one disagrees with that. So is any number of activities.

[Rainbowreflect]

81. Yes, but smoking is not only bad for you, it's bad for those around you.

Adults can legally drink, but they cannot leagally drink & drive because they are then putting others in danger.
Smoke in your own home, car or what ever is fine, but smoking in public you are putting others in danger.

[notadmblnd]

67. NOBODY gets out alive

Just a couple of months ago we found a healthy jogger dead in our parking lot at work. Now who'ld a thunk?:shrug:

[Loonman]

6. So pushing people out of jobs for some moralistic crusade is okay?

The anti-smoking coalitions tell as many lies about smoking as the tobacco industry does.

[papau]

11. other cities - as in Boston - found no change after smoking ban.

Seems those that want a drink in a bar find they can live without the smoke via adjusting to a life with a pause for smoking outside.

No change in the business economics in Boston.

[trumad]

13. Florida's doing great since it's ban

The 9 out of 10 folks I know who are smart enough not to smoke love the ban.

[TorchTheWitch]

61. yep

but none of the folks in Florida have to smoke outside in subzero temperatures do they?

Have you gotten the opinions of the workers about their income level since the ban? I worked in Florida for awhile doing nightclub bookings. It's not nearly as bad there with the smoking ban 1) because the the climate and 2) because there's nowhere else to go unless the business is close enough to the boarder where people can cross over and smoke. The boarder clubs are suffering but not as much as the northern areas that have the ban. Florida is another place I probably won't be doing bookings in again because the drop in income since the ban doesn't make it worth it to travel there anymore.

[Bandit]

85. "have to smoke " ~ being the key words here

:shrug: addicts will do and say anything to keep their drugs

[zbdent]

23. Maybe so, but the anti-smoking crusaders did not scour

the earth to find the 20 total physicians (worldwide) to testify that "it needs more study".

George Burns notwithstanding, why do you think that almost every doctor that gives you a physical suggests that you give up smoking?

My mother-in-law's hacking cough really sounds wonderful from all those years of smoking.

[creativelcro]

27. Moralistic ? http://www.epa.gov/iaq/pubs/strsfs.html

Since when cancer prevention is a moralistic crusade ?

[Northwind]

10. I was in New York

This summer. I was in Manhattan for two days, a Thursday and a Saturday. I was there from morning until after midnight. The crowds were so thick that one could barely walk. The nightclubs and restaurants were full to capacity. This was well after the smoking ban took effect. This report is bullshit.

[trumad]

12. SO-CALLED second hand?....

Here goes another thread where maybe 10 out of a thousand folks will respond defending the cigarette industry...Next ya'll will be saying that cigs aren't addictive.

Like I said...There's about 10 of you out there arguing for the right to annoy other folks with your bullshit weak kneed habit so why argue.....

[Loonman]

14. Hell yeah

If smokers have to put up with Rob Reiner and those "The Truth" propaganda horse shit commercials, so be it.

[trumad]

16. Smokers have to put up with a whole lot more than that!

Like widdling away to 70 pounds as your body is riddled with Cancer.... and then of course...,DYING! Idiots!

[LynneSin]

18. Same thing in Wilmington, DE

The smoking ban is simply evolution. All of the bars I go to are still packed filled with patrons. These bars have evoled to ensure patrons still visit even with the smoking ban in Delaware. Many of these places have set up outdoor decks where there is not only cover, but propane heaters which will allow them to be open even during the Winter Time.

Have bars in Delaware lost business due to the smoking ban? Yes, but overall the ban seems to be very popular and many establishments are still thriving quite nicely.

[TorchTheWitch]

21. whatever

I worked in a nightclub in Delaware until a month ago and quit to go work in Philly again where there is no smoking ban. Yes, it HAS hurt the business. From the DAY the ban went into affect, my tips fell to about half of what they had been in stayed that way. Everyone I used to work with in Delaware has made the move to either Philly or Jersey and I'm working with almost as many people who live in Delaware now then who live in the Philly area... many of these people are commuting an hour or more to work but it's worth it because of the difference in money. My friends in NYC have complained bitterly about the drop in business since the ban there went into effect and some have already left for greener pastures because of it. Instead of doing my usual stint in NYC this year, I'm going to Vegas for bookings.

Sure it was nice in Delaware not having to come home stinking like an ashtray, but it sure as hell isn't worth a half cut in income.

[creativelcro]

29. in Boston the smoking ban has INCREASED business in

restaurants. People bring their kids now. Bars ? You mean those stinky holes with drunks watching wrestling on TV all day ? Oh well, they can go to hell... They are bad for the community anyway...

[Loonman]

51. Bars are bad for the community

Those stinky drunks are a danger to society.


:eyes:

[TorchTheWitch]

56. huh?

Was I talking about restaurants? No.

All that goes on in nightclubs is drunks watching bad TV? All nightclubs are "holes"? When's the last time you've been to a nightclub?

Nightclubs are bad for the community? It's bad for a community for people to have somewhere to solialize? It's bad for a community to have businesses that employ people? It's bad for a community to have somewhere for people to dance and listen to music? It's bad for a community to have somewhere where musicians can ply their art? It's bad for communities to reap billions of dollars a year off the nightclub business?

Good grief.

Tell me something... if nightclubs are as bad as you seem to believe, then obviously you aren't going to them. If you aren't going to them anyway, why the fuck do you care if the people in them smoke or not?

[IrateCitizen]

17. NEW YORK POST

The source of the article says it all. :eyes:

I wouldn't trust that rag to wipe my ass.

[vision]

19. Anybody remember Al Jaffe?

In Mad Magazine he was pretty anti-smoking but his suggestion would be great. All smokers were allowed to smoke where they wanted and when they wanted but they had to have basically a selfcontained chamber/bag around them to keep the smoke to themselves. :)

[Fuzz]

20. Joe Jackson (the great musician's take) with which I agree

LYON I never thought I'd say this, but I'm thinking of leaving New York for a city that's free and tolerant and treats me like an adult. Berlin, maybe, or Barcelona, or even London, the city I left nearly 20 years ago.
.
I came to live in New York to be a musician and a bohemian, but the last time my band played in the city, in April, there were no fewer than five "No Smoking" signs in our dressing room. Two weeks later in Hamburg, Germany, our dressing room had five ashtrays. You can guess where we felt more welcome.
.
New York used to have an edge - that sense that something thrilling can happen at any moment and that anyone, not just rich people and tourists, can be a part of it. Now even the bohemians are turning sanctimonious.
.
Singers I know, who got through 20 years of smoky gigs, have become overnight converts to the total smoking ban in New York (though they don't complain about the smoke when they're in Europe). Can't we just be grown up? Besides, a bit of haze in the air makes the lights look better.
.
The smoking ban is just one part of the strangulation of New York's night life - a crackdown on everything from topless bars to noise - which began under Rudolph Giuliani and has continued under Mayor Michael Bloomberg. Many of us preferred to old X-rated Times Square to the new "Disneyfied" version. Besides, shouldn't a great city be able to tolerate a red-light district?
.
Nightclubs and bars can't allow their patrons to dance unless they have an expensive, hard-to-obtain cabaret license; clubs are closed if even one customer is found using drugs; and rich condominium owners who move into neighborhoods made fashionable by trendy clubs go to court to complain about the noise.
.
But the smoking ban is the last straw, the thing that has me packing my bags in utter disgust. And the new state law that is going into effect in July is even more draconian. What exactly is the problem with separate, enclosed, ventilated smoking areas?
.
I like a couple of cigarettes or a cigar with a drink, and like many other people, I only smoke in bars or nightclubs. Now I can't go to any of my old haunts. Bartenders who were friends have turned into cops, forcing me outside to shiver in the cold and curse under my breath (the bar can also be fined if I make too much noise). I go back inside to find my drink gone, along with my place at the bar. It's no fun. Smokers are being demonized and victimized all out of proportion.
.
"Get over it," say the anti-smokers. "You're the minority." I thought a great city was a place where all kinds of minorities could thrive.
.
"The smoking ban works in Los Angeles," they say. But Los Angeles has a very different culture, not to mention more space and a better climate for outdoor smoking.
.
"Smoking kills," they say. As an occasional smoker with otherwise healthy habits, I'll take my chances. Health consciousness is important but so are pleasure and freedom of choice.
.
As for secondhand smoke, there is research that shows it's not nearly as dangerous as some, like Bloomberg, would have us believe. And common sense tells you that a bit of smoke now and again, just when you're in a bar, isn't going to kill you - especially if you're in a separate nonsmoking section.
.
There are ways to keep everyone happy. Make high-tech clean-air ventilation units, which are used in many pubs in London, compulsory; they really do suck out most of the smoke from the air. Have separate smoking rooms. Have separate smoking establishments. Stop putting unreasonable restrictions on smoking outdoors; if traffic fumes, garbage trucks, panhandlers and who knows what else can't spoil a tough New Yorker's al fresco supper, surely we can handle a bit of cigarette smoke.
.
Let employees who smoke, or are prepared to sign some sort of waiver, work the smoking venues. Have smoke-free serving areas and let patrons carry their own drinks into smoking areas. Keep the ban but allow people to apply for exemptions or smoking licenses. Limit the number of licenses so that plenty of places remain smoke free.
.
See how reasonable (or desperate) we smokers are? We just want somewhere to enjoy a legal product in a sociable environment. This can be resolved in a spirit of tolerance, which is increasingly rare in this increasingly joyless city. Bar and club operators should unite and lobby for fairer laws. Meanwhile, London is looking pretty good. Or Paris, or Reykjavik

http://www.iht.com/articles/97175.html

[Rainbowreflect]

22. A LTTE in my local paper said it best.

"Having a non-smoking section in bar is like having a non-urinating section in a swimingpool."

[creativelcro]

35. LOL!! That is good...

[elvisbear]

84. Yech, second hand urine in the swimming pool.......

Excuse me kid, but would stop urinating in my general direction. :-)

[pnb]

75. That would never work

Non-smokers would think they might be missing something cool at the smoking places and demand that people cease and desist there eventually.

[SoCalDem]

33. It's driving it "underground"..

People who would have gone out to a club or bar, are now entertaining privately..

People who would have gone out to dinner several times a week, are now doing take-out or cooking at home more..

We used to eat out 3 or 4 times a week, but now only go out a couple of times a month..

The restaurants always complained that the smokers did not "turn the tables" fast enough, because we lingered for afterdinner coffee or dessert and a cigarette.. The places we go never seem to have any problems with that anymore.. There are always empty tables..

Surveys and polls can be made to say whatever the person doing them intends.. The real tale will be told when these same bar/restaurant owners file their taxes.. It will be in black & white (and red) then.. If a restaurateur makes less this year than in past years, or when his taxes paid to the state drop significantly, they will know the real impact then..

My husband and I just decided that if the places we went to did not need our business, we were ok with that.. There are some who have ooutdoor patios and we go there.. Actually we enjoy them more.. I prefer to dine where I do not have a bunch of loud kids in the next booth anyway.:)

Just as an aside.. A few years ago in Vegas, lots of the casinos had very large non-smoking areas, (with lots of empty slots).. The most recent trip to vegas, I noticed that the non smoking sections had gotten smaller.. I guess money talks in vegas.. but then we all knew that already :)

[Cascadian]

34. I think we should just ban alcohol altogether.

That's bad for you too you know. If not then maybe the bars should curb their opening hours. Close at say 10:30PM so people can get 8 hours of sleep. No dancing either. You don't want to mess up your muscles doing areobic like moves. It's a load of crock and I say let the market decide on a person's habit. People are already quitting anyway and regulating one's habit is so counter-productive. This is America, not Singapore.

BTW Should we ban chewing gum in public too?


John

[creativelcro]

41. your post makes no sense...

[Cascadian]

44. Could you elaborate please?

My point is you ban one thing, then you might as well ban everything that is bad for you.

John

[creativelcro]

47. How is chewing gum bad for other people ?

[Cascadian]

54. Singapore bans people from chewing gum in public.

http://www.simonandbaker.com/singapore_content.html


They also ban a ton of stuff that allegedly bad for you there. Should we become another Singapore?

That is what I am talking about.

John

[Cascadian]

37. Pierce County, WA has just banned smoking in their bars.

Take a look.

http://seattlepi.nwsource.com/local/151029_smoke04.html

[theboss]

38. First, no smoking.

Then, no drinking. And finally, no talking.

God bless Eddie Izzard.

[creativelcro]

42. First, no smoking, THEN no lung cancer in my 40s

[Cascadian]

39. I found non-smoking bars to be boring.

I went to one and it was one of the most boring, narcisstic places I had ever gone to. No atmosphere, no ambiance. It was no different than going to a milk or juice bar. I fear that if there is a no-smoking ban in bars everywhere, it is just going to dull the nightlife scene. New York City is sheer proof of that.

John

[creativelcro]

43. Bars in NYC look just fine to me these days...

[efront]

64. lol! Smoke in the air makes a bar more exciting?

That is the dumbest fucking thing I've ever heard. I don't have a feeling either way on the smoking ban, but dumb-ass statements like yours should be banned.

[OhioStateProgressive]

55. f_ck smoking bans, and those who support them

it's fascist

do something about cars, factories and massive deforestation before you give me shit about my cigarette

[Cascadian]

57. Thank you!

My thoughts exactly and ironically I am a non-smoker!


John

[OhioStateProgressive]

60. i am sick of health elitism in this country

these people who rail about second hand smoke are the same people who believe obese people are second class citizens

the same people who look down upon anyone who doesn't run four miles a day

it's all part of the "Pretty people" society we are buiilding, and I believe it is fascist

[Selwynn]

62. EPA report says 3000 die of 2-hand smoke each year - less than 1%

Here we are freaking out about smoking in this country - here it is becoming one of the issues that people are most willing to debate, talk about or have strong feelings on. And the impact to the population is at best a fraction of a fraction of 1%. And that's using a lower confidence interval for their findings than 95%. So the EPAs best speculation, which is murky at best, is that second hand smoke is an issue potentially effecting a fraction of a fraction of 1% of people.

And yet, this is what we're all concerned about. You have a higher risk of cancer by putting a cell phone to your ear or doing a lot of other things than you have of getting any kind of cancer from second hand smoke.

[OhioStateProgressive]

66. agreed

i smoke...i know it isn't healthy

i don't smoke near people...i am considerate

but to see people make fascist posts that basically condemn those of us that smoke to second class status galls me to the point of apopleptic ranting

it is all part of something deeply sad in this society

we are moving further and further away from our collective humanity...we find new wedges to drive between each other...this idea of being the "perfect person", seen in how we dress, how we eat...the new medicines we develop to hold on to the fountain of youth

it's all superficial...while we bitch abot such things, people die of hunger in massive quantities, kids get cancer from carcinogens the government puts in the ground...car companies are allowed to bypass fuel efficiency laws by making SUV's

fake plastic America

i can't even rant coherently it boggles my mind so badly

[SoCalDem]

63. I agree with you..

Smokers may indeed end up with diseases that are "smoking-related".. But then ALL diseases are "living-related"..

Heart disease can be a result of smoking, but then it can also be a disease of pizza/donut/gravy/ice cream/fried chicken/5 pound burrito/potato chips..etc..

The health of EVERY citizen is heavily impacted by pollution, acid raiin, mercury-laden fish,and any number of chemical concoctions that we inhale,absorb every day we are on earth.

Every person alive now, will some day die.. They may die from an accident, a disease, or by any number of other causes..

I really feel that someday, cancer will be found to be a result of a lifetime's exposure to MANY toxins.. Trying to eliminate them may be a good thing, but there is no perfect solution.. Setting up the government to be the lone entity that gets to decide who is "good" and who is "bad", is very GeorgeBushian..Anyone who is not totally "good", automatically becomoes "evil"..

There are really only two groups in America that it's okay to demonize.. Fat people and smokers..

[OhioStateProgressive]

68. YES!!!!!:):)

that is a fantastic answer

the degredation of heavy people in our society is extreme

kids commit suicide because of it

men and women go their whole lives without personal love because society dictates it

it creates a quality of life gap, worse than any economical factors...it is emotional poverty at it's most extreme

it reduces art to what is biological...and we all know that art (art and beauty are the same) can only come from within, for it speaks to inner truth

the new Construct of today is for beauty and art to be defined from "outward to inward" is false

it can only go inward to outward

[annagull]

71. Why not allow a choice? Smoking and Nonsmoking bars?

That is what I don't understand--if you don't smoke you can go to the nonsmoking bar, and if you do you can go to the smoking bar.

[SoCalDem]

72. They tried to get this in CA....BUT

The bars/restaurants who wanted NON smoking howled like a scalded cat.. They wanted the STATE to be the bad guy, so that when patrons complained, they could throw up their hands and say "Hey, it's not ME, it's the state"..and to the ones who patted them on the back,they could say "Yes, We fought hard for the ban".. They wanted it both ways.,..

PLUS.. the bars that allowed smoking would have attracted more crowds.. The smokers who just quit going to their hangout places did NOT go elsewhere..they just quit spending their money there.. They could not be wooed back from a different place..

I find it hard to believe that a bunch of non-smokers out there just all of a sudden developed a yearning for hanging out at bars..

Most research I have seen, leads me to believe that drinkers tene to want a cigar or cigarette when they drink.. They are also usually sociable people who enjoyed going out..

Some smaller places out here just folded up completely..

[pnb]

77. Choice?

You're suggesting choice? It doesn't seem as if many people like the idea of choice.

It also seems to me that if the majority of people wanted non-smoking bars, then non-smoking bars would already have existed more so than they did, meaning the ban would not even be 'necessary.'

I guess the people who own and run bars were just too stupid to realize that it really was in their best interests to not have smoking...

[FlaGranny]

79. I used to smoke and go to bars and

drink alcohol. I still have a drink or two. Even when I smoked, I found smoke-filled bars to be unpleasant. Stinging eyes and burning throat unpleasant. An American Legion bar I went to had smoke filters and they worked pretty good if you positioned yourself just right, but if you got between one and a smoker, you suffered. But, even I thought it was going too far to stop smoking in bars. From my heavier drinking days I learned that smoking and booze do go together.

I remember a trip to a restaurant with my young (at the time) son. We were being blasted by a chain smoker at the next table. My son was about 5 or 6 and he announced loudly "that smoke stinks" as he waved his hands in front of his face trying to get rid of the smoke. The smoker was unconcerned and made no effort to redirect his smoke. We had to ask for another table. That was before smoking and nonsmoking areas were sectioned off.

Cars do pollute too, but there is little reason to add to the pollution we get from cars by going into smoke-filled rooms.

I have an asthmatic friend who had been hospitalized multiple times for acute asthma because of smokers in the workplace. Everyone expressed concerned for her health, but evidently they were not worried enough to stop lighting up next to her. She was the one expected to leave the building when the smokers lit up I guess. She nearly died, twice that I know of, just from working in a smoke-filled office.

[karabekian]

80. people like to smoke and drink

no suprise there. this is just another example of government meddling and unintended side effects. Why not patronize bars where smoking is not allowed if it bothers you. Why not allow smokers to go to bars where they can smoke. Its smoker discrimination and a blatent attempt by the government to control behavior. If 80% of people don't smoke, wouldn't 80% of bars be non smoking or at least offer seperate smoking section. People like to smoke and the pleasure police hates it. I think the people will win out in the end,

[Cascadian]

83. This is why I say let the market decide.

Let's have non-smoking bars and let's have smoking bars. Nobody is forcing non-smokers to go the bars where smokers are.


We are far more educated about the dangers of smoking than we were 40 years ago and almost everybody smoked back then now smoking is actually decreasing, but where does it end when you start banning smoking in bars? The prohibition in the 20's and 30's should have taught people a lesson about forcing habit laws on people. They simply don't work.


John