Howard Dean's Grassroots - "For Whites Only"???

[qwlauren35]

I apologize in advance for the inflamatory (but not bigoted!) subject. I recently responded on another board to a question about whether and when black folks will become active in the Dean campaign. My answer - the majority WILL NOT.

I wanted to post my thoughts here and see how people feel. I admit that this is a highly opinionated post, and an extremely sensitive subject. I would also suggest that Dean is not the only candidate who would have this problem come the general direction. I honestly believe that unless we all work together to find and talk up the reasons why African-Americans should vote on election day, it's not going to happen.

~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
Question: What does Governor Dean need to do to reach black voters in the South and the Midwest? Can Al Sharpton distract or derail the Dean campaign in black communities? What challenges does Dean face with black voters in the South Carolina primary?



Answer: I honestly do not believe that Dean will amass a significant black following unless he wins the nomination, and even then, it's not clear whether we'll stay home.

Why not?
1.) A large number of us who are Christians will not back someone who has signed a civil unions bill.
2.) A large number of us will support Sharpton because of his snappy sound bites.
3.) Some of us have simply picked other candidates (there ARE 9 of them!) and are sticking by them for the moment.

Also - there is not enough of a visible black bandwagon for black folks to jump onto. It's not that Dean doesn't have a sizeable number of endorsements from African-American politicians, or even that he doesn't have enough blacks on his staff. It's that darned grassroots of his. It's white. Virtually LILY white. And all that whiteness repels a lot of black activists.

Many African-Americans are choosing more and more to self-segregate. They want to go to political events and activities where they are in the majority. The Dean campaign is not capable of providing this. It's not as though the campaign can advertise an event as "for blacks only". But and yet, this is the very thing that some African-Americans would insist on in order to participate. People are asking if there are any predominantly black meet-ups that they can go to. But by and large, there aren't any. One might ask "why is this a problem?" The fact is, in situations in which black people are NOT the majority, we have to fight to be heard. Sometimes it doesn't seem worth it. And, to be blunt, it's very rare to see white people attempt to take the backstage position and let the spotlight shine on black folks. It's quite possible that black folks assume that if they join, they'll be asked to FOCUS on "outreach", and not be given the space to work on ANYTHING ELSE! As if nothing else matters to us... NOT TRUE. In contrast, when black folks are the majority, they are freer to express their opinions, and to develop the direction of their ideas without "interference". I don't think it's racist to suggest the a black team and a white team might come up with two different directions for an idea. Take for example, planning a social event. You KNOW the music would be different... (Well, if you've never been to an event that was majority black, maybe you don't know...)

There are no easy solutions, because being a minority isn't easy. But from what I can see, only half of the problem is the Dean campaign; the other half of the problem is the tendency of today's African-Americans to self-segregate, often for what we believe are VALID reasons. (The ability to steer our own ships.) Unless the Dean campaign attempts to meet us MORE than halfway, I don't think we're going to jump on board.

[pistoff democrat]

1. First of all: DUCK!

(Deaniacs will soon arrive)

However, I am very interested in who you are leaning toward supporting. I'm imagining we're both going with ABB, but do you feel comfortable with any other viable (sorry, Carol and Al) candidate?

Thanks!

[TrueAmerican]

5. I am sure some will back Clark

The military is well respected in the Black Community.

[pistoff democrat]

11. I think you're right

Wonder if VP choice will be of special help...

[qwlauren35]

8. Perhaps this will come as a Surprise.

I am a staunch Dean supporter. I have been working my fanny off to get his name known in my local community. It's uphill work. Too many candidates, too many sound bites, too much apathy. Interestingly, when I talk about Dean, folks listen. And they like what I have to say. But I don't know whether they'll get out and VOTE.

So, in effect, my post expresses some of my frustration. You're dead on, I want Bush GONE so bad it makes my head spin. But I'm terribly afraid that none of the candidates have what it takes to get black folks to get up, get out and go vote in the numbers that are needed to offset the religious right.

[NewYorkerfromMass]

39. Sharpton praised Kerry as

the only other candidate who went to jail for his beliefs.

[Hope4]

67. Duck and get a first lady

I think not having a first lady is going to hurt dean when it sinks into black women. Right now DK is on drudge with a picture of his girlfriend and she gave him a kiss.

It is silly things to some but a lot of people understand how important a first lady is the president. Jackie with JFK. Hillary got in trouble and she went on today and told of baking cookies for bill in the white house and it paid off.

Mrs. Dean said he did not even tell her he was running for president. Sounds to me like she is upset. How can she have a practice with ss all around her?

[billbuckhead]

2. Dean's an NRA "Democrat"

The Confederate flag flap was just a symptom of this mindset.

[pistoff democrat]

16. yeppers!

:toast:

[Bucky]

84. Clarkie who sez "Nopers"

Dean isn't my cup of tea, but he's no Republican. The NRA thing is overblown. No one can seriously doubt who the NRA and the rank and file gunlovers will support in 2004. Dems fearing it "says something" about Dean are acting paranoid. Deanies hoping it will win them even one single vote are indulging a pipedream. The issue is a total wash.

[ibegurpard]

3. You have given me food for thought.

Thanks.

[coloradodem2005]

4. I would agree with you on a number of these things.

THere should be a number of meetups for blacks (and latinos too).

[qwlauren35]

12. The system makes it nearly impossible.

If you look at how Meet-up.com is structured, it has to get votes to be held, or else people are TOLD (via e-mail) to go somewhere else.

So, if you put a meet-up in a black neighborhood, unless people purposely support the concept, it won't get enough votes to be held there.

Been there, tried that...

And not enough people pay attention to "Get Local"... and not enough of us are on the Internet, period.

[Sir_Shrek]

6. Wow

Thanks for the insight. This is kind of an issue I've been following casually, and you brought up some things I hadn't thought about.

[slinkerwink]

7. I agree with you......

because African-Americans are used to traditional forms of campaigning and getting their votes out that way. It's all about canvassing neighborhoods, and that's what we'll need to do in DC and South Carolina, among other black communities. I'm sure that Deaniacs are doing that now.

[markus]

40. Slinkerwink wins the "been there, done that" award

for probably having knocked on a lot of door before.

Man, I used to do this in N'wawlins for years, and those main floor on the second story houses you find everywhere are *killers*.

If you've walked uptown or midcity before, you know what I mean.

The big problem I see (as a Dean supporter) is how the ministerial community is going to handle civil unions. The influence of the ministers in incredibly important. If they aren't preaching Dr. Dean from the pulpit, and it's not getting on sample ballots, we will be hurting.

[NewYorkerfromMass]

55. ministerial community is going to have problem w/civil unions?

uh oh. Just what we don't need. Sounds like Howard'd going to have a lof of 'splaining to do.

[Fleshdancer]

9. The thing that drives me crazy about this issue

Is it just my imagination, or do political journalists and news windbags talk about African-American voters as if they're some sort of alien force that Caucasians could never begin to unnderstand?

With all the speculation on who African-American voters will or won't vote for, I have yet to see anyone actually ask African-Americans. To be fair, I'm seeing the same thing regarding the ever so mysterious Southern voter and it's down right patronizing and lazy reporting in my opinion.

I'm going to go out on a limb here and assume that black people, just like white people or any other race are individuals who have various different reasons for choosing their candidate.

While the Dean grassroots movement is filled with a lot of Caucasians, I have seen a good number of Hispanic, Asian and yes, even African-Americans at the Austin meetups and at rallies. Granted the minority population isn't as big as we wish it were at this point, I don't think saying it is "Lilly white" is accurate. Maybe it depends on the city, but down here, its just not the case.

[ariesgem]

41. It's not just political journalists and the news windbags...

>>>Is it just my imagination, or do political journalists and news windbags talk about African-American voters as if they're some sort of alien force that Caucasians could never begin to unnderstand?<<<


Does anyone HERE bother to ask African Americans who participate on this board how they feel about their preferred candidate and why they plan to vote for them? As an African American, I read the conversations on threads like this and people (who I can assume are not black) make these BROAD statements about us like "African Americans feel..., or the African American Community will do that... Contrary to popular belief, we are not sheep that all think in sync. Hell, my sister is a baptist christian fundie that voted for the dim son. (will somebody PLEASE shoot me! :cry:)

Just like everyone else, we as African Americans have differences in opinions and do not need the guidance of "black leaders" to help us form an opinion. To the good folks as DU, please don't talk over us. ASK US. You'd be suprise at what you'd hear.

FYI - I support Howard Dean but if he doesn't win the primary, I will support whoever is on Dem ticket.

[qwlauren35]

44. Well, it's good to know there are two of us...

Well, Ariesgem, let me know if you think my original post was too generalized, or if some of the issues are valid. I wasn't trying to make us out to be a monolith by any stretch. I was just trying to get a conversation started about a topic that I really care about.

WINNING THE BLOODY GENERAL ELECTION...

[ibegurpard]

47. Nonsense. You've brought the issue up in a manner most

conducive to constructive conversation. Others would do well to take a lesson from you.

[Chovexani]

72. Thank you!

Couldn't have said it better myself.

FYI - I'm black and I support Dean as well (even tossed him a couple of bucks). I will work for whoever gets the nomination.

[KoKo]

10. Isn't there a way to form groups for Candidates? African-Americans for

Dean, Sharpton, Kucinich, Kerry, Moseley-Braun, etc.? I will be honest in saying that I would have trouble going to an all African-American Church for a rally for M-B or Sharpton. It cuts both ways on this.

It think it's hard for African-Americans and even Latinos or Muslims or whatever to feel they aren't being pandered to if they feel that they need to segregate themselves out to feel comfortable.

Whats gone wrong with America under Bush affects ALL of US and he and his BFEE/PNAC cronies will have all of us in jail who dessent no matter what our skin color is. Just being here on DU might be enough if he's re-elected. I don't see how we can deal with divisions when we will either hang together or hang alone.

Frankly, and I'm not African-American, I would almost hope that Carol Moseley-Braun could be our next President. She's as intelligent as Hillary, imho, has alot of experience and I think would probably do a surprisingly good job. I hope her candidacy gets her into a top slot in our new Dem President's cabinet.

I just hope that skin color, or religious affiliation will become less important as people wake up to enormity of what's at stake for America.

[HFishbine]

19. Yes

http://www.africanamericansfordean.com/

[TrueAmerican]

22. Here is a better site

http://www.africanamericansforclark.com/

[TrueAmerican]

26. And here is one for latinos

http://latinos4clark.uni.cc/

[angee_is_mad]

29. cute!!!!!

[angee_is_mad]

13. attack time!

Watch out for all the deanies who will be coming out of the woodworks to attack your post. lol, But honestly, I have made a few similiar posts in the past and its like his supporters have blinders on. I've even been accused of being the one with the problem and not his organization.
I do not think that his organization is bigoted, just unaware or maybe don't care right now. For all the money that he has raised, and all the exposure that he gets, he still haven't made a significant enroad into the black community. This is a problem. They need to face it head on, because if he doesn't, having Bill Clinton in Harlem behind Clark will go alot further to get the black vote then having Gore in Harlem telling blacks who to vote for. Also Clark will have a better chance to get that southern vote.

[LuminousX]

24. I don't think Dean supporters would be upset at this post

The title is a bit inflammatory but the substance is valid and reasoned.

[angee_is_mad]

28. I agree

especially since she is one of them. Thank God she is raising a very valid point for you all. Please pay attention to what she has to say and seat back and absorb it.

[_Jumper_]

14. Dean is 2nd among black voters, only 3% behind Sharpton

The grassroots for each candidate, with the possible exceptions of Sharpton and Braun, are "lily white."

[pistoff democrat]

18. Link please!!!!

last polling I had (2 months ago) had Clark 1st with African-American voters.

[_Jumper_]

73. It was posted here a while ago

It broke down support regionally, by age, and showed who the top two were among blacks and Hispanics.

Can you provide a link? I really would like to save that poll. Clark probably has vaulted to first among African-Americans as he has gotten his message out and as a result of Dean's courting of neo-Confederates.

[swittersnc]

21. strong dean supporter here

who couldn't agree more. has been my biggest problem with the campaign all along.
i've been hosting meetups for months and there are always just 2 or 3 black people in a room of 30 or more. it's pathetic.
i've speculated it's the meetup process. i also think that there is a saturation point in each community of people who spend enough time on the internet to deal with meetup.
we've all heard the "mousepads and shoe leather" line.
my opinion is that the mousepads have been hit hard enough for a screaming case of carpal tunnel while the shoes have been sitting in the corner.
and before anyone gets upset, i know that there are a lot of people out pounding the pavement for dean (i'm one of them and see them regularly in my city) but those of us who are doing that are a disappointingly small percentage of the 525,000 members of the campaign.

[qwlauren35]

46. Gotta agree with you...

In fact, I'll be downright wrong about it...

I'd rather write a thousand letters, and HAVE ALMOST DONE SO, than go out and canvass.

But in my heart, I know that pounding pavement is what it takes to get US to vote.

Are you by chance in NC? I'm in Greensboro.

[Q]

15. I'm not a Dean supporter...but you're making many assumptions...

...that are impossible to predict at this point. Gore pulled in a record-breaking number of Black votes in 2000. It could be assumed that many of Gore's votes would go to Dean in consideration of the historical record.

- You use the phrase 'many' African-Americans...yet you provide nothing to support this claim beyond your own opinion. You also say that Dean should meet you 'more than half way'...does this apply to all the candidates?

[Tinoire]

85. I haven't read the entire thread but it's been my observation

at DU that I haven't read the entire thread but it's been my observation at DU that most of our Black DUers are behind either Clark or Kucinich. Frankly, I was shocked at how many were behind Clark from the very get-go before he'd even announced and called some of them on it but they explained and I had to shut up.

It's kind of too bad DU doesn't have a DUer demographics data-base. There were some brilliant threads by Black DUers at the very beginning of this campaign about why Dean would not appeal to Blacks- unfortunately I didn't book-mark them but the Blacks who offered that insight were so beaten up that most of them have left.

Gore didn't appeal either and almost lost the Black vote. It was Jesse Jackson and Sharpton and Farrakhan who came to his rescue with it at the last minute and had people, like me, going door to door urging with our brothers and sisters to go vote for Gore.

The very sad thing is that White America sees one thing and Black America another.

I have no idea how things are going to go down this year.

[aneerkoinos]

17. Easy solution

If nominated, Dean picks CMB his VP candidate. Get the minority votes and majority (women) really activated in one blow.

The campaign should not be whoring for the imagined center, but getting people activated, how about getting 70% or more to vote?

[oasis]

62. "Carol Mosely Braun for his VP"? Now there's a ticket with imagination.

:think:

[hippiechick]

20. You contradict yourself.

Sounds like you already have your mind made up that it ain't gonna happen.

First you say " ...But from what I can see, only half of the problem is the Dean campaign; the other half of the problem is the tendency of today's African-Americans to self-segregate..."

But then you put the onus almost entirely on the Dean campaign to 'please' you ... "...Unless the Dean campaign attempts to meet us MORE than halfway, I don't think we're going to jump on board."

Why not look to the issues that affect ALL voters - regardless of any other variable - as Dean suggested several times in his recent appearances. Health care, child care, jobs, education, human rights know no racial or economic boundaries and embrace a candidate based on how his/her presidency would affect EVERYONE, not just a particular interest group ?


:hippie:

[swittersnc]

25. that's a great ideology

but how does that get communicated when, the vast majority of the time, it's white people talking to white people?

[angee_is_mad]

31. you just don't get it

I see why the SMALL Dean african americans supporters have such a hard time explaining Dean to the community and trying to get them to back their candidates.

[hippiechick]

45. maybe instead of being MAD you COULD explain it

...to those of us you claim 'don't get it'.

:wtf:

And please don't make the assumption that I'm white just because I don't see it from your point of view.



:hippie:

[qwlauren35]

50. It's not so much making up my mind....

It's more looking at how hard it is to go out and canvass in my community, (but doing it ANYWAY!) talking to others and hearing THEIR difficulties, seeing the numbers of African-American ACTIVISTS remain small after many months of effort, and after all that, developing some theories.

Here. I'll throw out another one, one that gets talked about in black Southern communities.

"Dean says he's for jobs, education, health care for all. Well, how is he going to ENSURE that white folks don't keep black folks from getting their fair share when it STILL happens IN THIS DAY AND AGE??? If he doesn't have a plan for ENSURING EQUALITY, then he's just blowing steam."

Unless there's an answer to this question, Dean is just another politician to SOME black folks. (I've discussed it with SOME black folks and that's the type of response I got.) So then who is going to take the question to DEAN? Somehow, I haven't seen too many white folks standing up and asking that type of question.

I guess what I'm saying is: when the majority of his support base is white, and he comes from VERMONT (fer gosh sakes), there are black folks who will assume that his promises aren't meant for them, because they have seen, TOO OFTEN, how policies don't always translate into action in black communities. There are SOME black folks who are assuming that if Dean has no experience with racism, (and that he wouldn't have gotten that experience in Vermont!) then his plan does not automatically include a way to make sure that EVERYBODY gets a piece of the pie, even if it sounds that way to "the average American".

Yes, EVERYTHING I'm saying is anecdotal. From talking to "the man on the street". But I AM getting out there and having those conversations, so my words are not based solely on my imagination.

If it's not clear... if an ethnic group doesn't see itself being embraced by the candidate, it's harder to trust that the promises that the candidate is making will actually become policies that impact THEM. Typically, to feel "embraced", it takes an image of a room full of one's own. And in the Dean campaign, those images are few and far between for black folks.

[corporatewhore]

23. he needs to change his policies

Sharpton was right-pro death penalty(a very racist institution)+pro nra +past anti affirmative action comments = an anti black (and latino) agenda Not to mention he wants to continue the occupation and you know who is carrying the burden

[Demobrat]

27. The person who runs our meetup is African American.

And so are several of the regular volunteers. Of course, there are fewer AAs than whites, but then that applies to the population as a whole, also. Then of course, they are college educated liberals also, so maybe they don't count.

[angee_is_mad]

34. what do you mean

by saying that they are college educated liberals and they don't count? Please explain, because I would really hate to take your statement the wrong way!

[Demobrat]

86. Oh, I'm just being sarcastic

because opponents like to write off Dean as only appealing to college-educated latte drinkers, so of course college-educated latte drinkers don't count regardless of their race.

[LuminousX]

30. Valid and Reasoned

Your post is valid and reasoned. And you describe a process that I call "Politics on a Silver Platter." If a candidate wants a group of people to become involved, that candidate needs to provide clear avenues for the involvement. That candidate needs to make it simple for people to be involved.

You raise a fascinating point. There is no reason why a meet-up can't be scheduled at a place that is more convenient for African-American's in each city. A minority coordinator could be assigned to major metropolitan areas and help nudge it along.

Dean needs the 90% support Gore got and then some.

So, let's analyze this a bit. What can be done to go 'more than half-way?' What can be done to encourage the African-American community to come toward Dean just a bit?

[qwlauren35]

51. What I Saw Working in DC

Was Outreach meetings. They put them smack in the heart of the black community. Different day from Meet-up. But I think the agenda was the same. Not sure how they advertised them. From the pull-out of the majority of candidates from the DC primaries, I'd say this must have been effective; Dean seems to have DC locked up compared to his Senatorial opponents.

I will ask some folks how they were advertised.

What I'm also seeing a lot of other black Deaniacs trying to do is hold events that are ritzy enough for the influential black leaders (pastors, politicians) in the hopes that these people will help with the canvassing and make donations. They are working with DFA to get influential speakers. Not sure whether this is working.

Whenever possible, we try to show the presence of black folks on the DFA staff. Down here in the Carolinas, a lot of the staff is black.

The one other thing I'm hearing though is that we need more free events where Dean is present, and they need to be held in black communities. I would add that it is DISASTROUS to hold such events on a Sunday in a Southern state. I hope that lesson has been learned after Dean's recent trip to South Carolina.

Most of the black Dean supporters I know love Dean and are doing their best to be behind him 100%... but many are having trouble getting other African-American voters to get fired up about him.

[NashVegas]

65. Is There a Local Peace & Justice Center Who'll Work With You?

Or other broad organization?

[Scott Lee]

32. That's odd - half the ones pushing campus meet ups here are

Black, and this is New Mexico State University with a majority Hispanic.

Dean's campaign is not exclusive to Whites. It's exclusive to all of us who want to kick out Warchimp and remake the Democratic Party.

[qwlauren35]

52. Wow! That is SO encouraging to hear!!!!

Maybe it's just a matter of where I'm located that the picture seems so dim...

- Lauren in North Carolina

[Romberry]

33. Here's the deal...

What group of people have the Democrats had the most problem turning out to vote?

OK, you know the answer to that. So here's a second question: Why is it that when we have a candidate who appears to appeal to a demographic that has not been turning out is it somehow a problem? Lastly, where are the cheering throngs of minorities in the crowds of Kerry, Edwards, Clark, Gephardt and Lieberman?
From what I've seen, their crowds (for those that actually draw a crowd) haven't looked all that much different from Dean's.

When the time comes, Dean will do fine. Any of our candidates would do fine.

[angee_is_mad]

35. blacks will have nowhere else to go

but to Dean after the nomination? I have already figured out that was his campaign stategy.
Well let's hope that the chickens don't come out to roost!

[xultar]

61. I love your thought process, are you BLACK?

For the record I am, and I find your assumption that we have no where else to go INSULTING. We do have somwhere else to go.

Nowhere. Stay home. Let you all who are taking our thoughts and wishes forgranted vote all by yourselves. A few endorsements by some black folks in congress won't get anyone elected. Depending who the congress person is it could end up being a negative.

So don't assume...The black folks I know have the impression that Dean's campaign is a bunch of college aged and 20 year old white kids. That dosen't interest me. When I read this board I see a lotta young white folks talking about issues that affect me as if they know. Well you don't because you DON'T listen.

So keep thinking that door to door, camping out in IA, and endorsements will get you the black vote. Because we'll all be watching GWB's Oath of Office in Jan 2005

[angee_is_mad]

81. that's my point

I do think that his campaign isn't concern about the black vote until he need them in the general election. That's why I said the chickens may come home to roost.
There isn't a candidate that has honestly galvanized the African American community that I have seen. Take for instance Bill Clinton. Clinton got in the hearts and minds of black folk and he was a centrist like Dean is. But Clinton seem to genuinely care and was comfortable with them.
The candidate that I have seen that possibly comes close is Clark.
Oh, by the way I am Black!

[xultar]

56. Are you black? Then how would you know about the cheering

crowds and what they look like?

[Rose Siding]

36. If you can come up with specific suggestions...

...the campaign responds to suggestions.

I know there's an African Americans for Dean and a "Blacks for Dean" site which even has a forum where where the meet up issue is discussed. Beyond that, have you checked the locales of meet ups near you? Or maybe on Deanlinks (I'm not registered there, so I'm not sure how it works) you could specify interest in events for Blacks.

It seems to me that as each supporter reaches out, there will be a ripple.

These can all be linked at

http://blog.deanforamerica.com/

[DinahMoeHum]

37. One problem may be with the Internet. . .(but maybe I'm wrong). . .

as a great many AA/Hispanic persons do not have and cannot afford a computer in their homes; and there are too few of them in their schools and libraries. The Internet is crucial to setting up the Meetups, etc.

:kick:

[HFishbine]

38. You're right

The core of the Dean movement has been powered by the internet. The digital dvide is evident.

[AntiCoup2K4]

42. Schools and libraries are a great place to find flyers & posters though...

...and somone who recieves the meetup notices via email could always spread the word by converting it to print and circulating the word that way.

[dave29]

43. I truly appreciate this post

There are some vaild concerns here. One problem being the internet... or the lack thereof in some lower income predominantly black communities. Same is true of other communities that are lower income. Outreach becomes difficult for a tech based campaign, but that doesn't mean it is impossible, or that attempts are not being made.

Dean is for equal rights for all - and social and economic justice for all - and that in itself should be a strong motivator for people in these communities to find some hope in Dean's message.

Meetups do not have to originate on the internet. They can be organized in other ways, and I think the more people just talk about the campaign, the more likely excellent ideas will be generated - and can be communicated back to a centralized location.

Organize a community meeting to discuss the candidates. Discuss their positions, and concepts we discuss here (for example Anybody But Bush).

I think as we approach the general election, there will be other motivators for African Americans to get involved. I know that African Americans feel screwed by Bush (and they should) so I would hope they would get involved - and maybe it will take someone like Al Gore or Bill Clinton (who have tremendous credibility with African American voters) doing some outreach to make sure they show up at the polls.

As far as Dean is concerned, all he can do is continue outreach, generating support from national leaders (congressional black caucus, Al Gore, etc), and hope that his grassroots organization can make it happen.

There is absolutely no "White's Only" sign in the Dean grassroots. Please help us figure out ways to be more inclusive and ensure that your voices are heard.

[CivilRightsNow]

48. Great points

A a twenty something this is my experience:

1.) A large number of us who are Christians will not back someone who has signed a civil unions bill.

I talk to alot of possible swing voters in my rather large, (18K congregation) moderately ethnically diverse church. They arent happy with bush.. heck, they are even willing to do some bending and vote for a prochoice candidate.. but the line comes when there is talk of civil unions. There is alot of talk in the churches about the decay that we are facing as a nation.. the decay in family, the decay in media.. and the decay in government. Civil unions are a huge hotbutton. Many seem to believe that they are unable to support a candidate that not only condones but supports marriage between two people of the same sex as well as abortion, no matter how much they are second guessing the current commander in thief.

2.) A large number of us will support Sharpton because of his snappy sound bites.

Heck, I love Sharpton's snappy come backs and Im a pasty caucasian :) I loved his comment at the end of the debate the other night! It was about how Saturday Night Live had higher ratings then Ted Koppel, but he wouldnt hold that against him. Alot of the African Americans that I know say that there is no chance of him being elected but they have become even more enamored with him throughout the debates and that they are waiting to see who he endorses. Ive also heard a great deal of good things about the ambassador. I think that maybe these two people being involved in the debates will fire up the minority majority to get out there and vote. Alot of the people I know say they feel like they have some representation, for the first time, in the election process.

3.) Some of us have simply picked other candidates (there ARE 9 of them!) and are sticking by them for the moment.

Ive heard a surprising amount of support for "The Ambassador", as a woman, I think that is fantastic. I also notice that Dennis Kucinich is getting alot more murmurs lately. There is also alot of support for Kerry. From the older, more affluent folk, I heard some positive things about Edwards and Kerry. Surprisingly, I heard very little about Bush.

I have to note this...
I do however, disagree with the comment about Wesley Clark that another poster made.. I stay out of discussions at my church about politics because Im just so opinionated I know it would do more harm then good.. but Im not seeing any support for Wesley Clark. I was amazed yesterday when someone started discussing the antichrist after a group had been talking about how he he had just been given military related questions during the debate and circled back into how the minorities were cannon fodder in the military. Then.. the discussion turned to the antichrist and NATO...Who would have known the average joe was so informed about world affairs? I think it was brought up half jokingly... but needless to say, I was flabbergasted. While I believe Wesley Clark is the same beast as GW Bush, except an even bigger militarian... I had only thought serious wackos had been relating him to the antichrist. Given, Im in Dallas and maybe there is some hidden proclivity towards GW Bush.. but I found it really odd and creepy. This is the first political discussion I had been party to during actual church activites.. not just youth initiatives.

Anyway, that's my scoop.

[maddezmom]

53. you think Clark is the antichrist?

:(

[CivilRightsNow]

58. NO, I DO NOT THINK CLARK IS THE ANTICHRIST.

Please read my post.

I said that I was amazed that it was spoken about!

I am firmly against Clark, but Im not saying he is the antichrist. I did find it funny/scary/intriging that a group of people at my church seem to atleast be giving it some thought. And these folks are Bush dislikers...Not Republican fanatics.

Thank you, please drive through.

[mrgorth]

49. Ah the bigger problem

We support civil rights but only for us. It was the Irish, the catholics and now blacks and hispanics. They like the dems to further their cause but let it be something that the good book doesn't endorse and it's rush over to support the cannon fodder party. Apparently we're going to have to become a banana republic before we learn to help each other out.

[qwlauren35]

54. Wish I had an answer for that one...

But I don't.

In my family, it took a family member coming out to shake sense into some people's heads. *I* believe that civil unions PROMOTE marriage, but then I know I'm liberal on that issue.

I think maybe we just have to be blunt. Which would you rather. A down low brutha infecting half the community because he won't come out of the closet, or two bruthas making a commitment to each other in public so that the world knows and nobody else gets hurt. Better still, making a public commitment to be MONOGAMOUS - much harder to spread disease that way!

I choose the latter, every time!

I keep trying to tell people that gay does not equal PROMISCUOUS, and it is the PROMISCUOUS black men (straight or gay) who are hurting us, not the monogamous gay black men.

As I said, I wish I had an answer...

[LatinManNH]

60. As a gay Latino...

...from a very Catholic family that has always voted Democratic, I think that Dean does need to reach out more to minority communities and address the way African Americans and Latinos can be liberal on economic issues but conservative on social issues. And it's true that the Internet does not connect with a lot of minorities, but going to their cultural events, their churches, and their places of business does help. Apparently, he has already put together an ad in which he speaks Spanish, which will air in New Mexico. I'm afraid, though, that once Dean does reach out to minorities more consistently, people will accuse him of pandering.

[ibegurpard]

68. Catch-22 isn't it?

n/t

[Chovexani]

75. SO true.

I believe we ought to think more about this issue. White Christian fundie conservatives have found a new tactic to divide and conquer Dems in the last few years and that is using black folks in their fight against gay equality. They play to certain black folks' homophobia by perpetuating the myth that the GLBT community is white, wealthy and wants to have rights they don't deserve (like there's only a limited amount of rights?). This tactic worked in Cincinnati (I think? not sure offhand) and a gay rights ordinance was struck down because of it. Don't think Foulwell & Co. won't try this again, especially if Dean becomes the Dem nominee. It'll be fifty times worse.

As a bisexual black woman I am INCENSED by the fact that the Religious Reich is always trying to pit the GLBT and black communities against each other--making GLBT people of color even more invisible, and we all shoot ourselves in the feet in the process. I don't have an answer either, but I think a start would be to remind black folks that the GLBT community are not all rich white people trying to take their "piece of the pie"--that gay rights means rights for their own sisters, brothers, sons, daughters, mothers, fathers, etc. This is not an issue of orientation it's an issue of fairness. If you frame it like that black folks really don't have a problem with it, in my experience. In spite of what I've said black folks are really no more homophobic than anyone else. What black church in America doesn't have a gay Minister of Music, choir director, etc?

I'm just rambling now, but I appreciate your posts. You've given me a lot of things to think about.

[chimpymustgo]

59. Dean's biggest problem is his style IMO - pointing finger, I know what's

good for you. He has a "preppie white boy" thing in spades (so to speak).

Perhaps there is a natural ability to connect when people have grown up around with each other. It looks as though Dean didn't have much contact with blacks until he was old enough to analyze them in a racial context. Contrast that will Edwards, who grew up with blacks, and the struggles of the civil rights movement. It's in his bones. Like Clinton.

Clark has it too. He projects a real sense as listening, caring about what you think - and he is going over gangbusters in the black community. Edwards, is doing well too.

Even Dean's statement last Sunday from South Carolina, which was hailed around DU as though it were "I Have a Dream", still had the tone (and I only read the speech), of a politician saying, I've figured out what your problem is, and here's the solution. Quit voting on those silly issues of God, guns and gays, and vote on important issues like healthcare and jobs.

Dr. Dean, I hear what you're saying, but pick up the clue phone: Gods, guns and gays are IMPORTANT to many of these people.

Listen to the way Clark and Edwards talk to Southern voters, to black voters. Guess what? It's the exact same way they talk to white voters.

[Scott Lee]

78. And that out of place hair on his left eyebrow. That could spell trouble.

Middle America simply won't vote for a guy like that.

[1songbird]

57. The discussion that I'm hearing on a local minority owned radio

station is that he is out of touch and does not know the issues facing African Americans. There is still resentment about the Conf. flag comments as well.

[Jerseycoa]

63. What do you think about this?

Form a Committee to Unseat George W. Bush. You could develop a questionnaire along the lines of the League of Women Voters and solicit policy responses on issues of concern and distribute it among the various AA communities.

Once any candidate has met the standards of the African-American community, in general - individuals still think and vote as individuals - then reform the group around the group's preferred candidate.

None of the white candidates, to my observation, have yet to solidify black support to the extent of challenging each other. It will take time for it to play out, so why not organize the vote meantime against Bush and go from there?

:dem:

[qwlauren35]

70. I LOVE YOUR IDEA!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

I think I'll try it!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

[ulysses]

64. seems to me

that at least some of the problems you present relate to the rest of the white candidates as well as Dean and as well as past Dem candidates. Take your musical-at-a-social-event example. Are Kucinich events, or Clark events, or Kerry events, any more likely to feature "black music" (what is that, anyway? Hip-hop? R&B? Mozart?) than a Dean event?

on edit:

They want to go to political events and activities where they are in the majority. The Dean campaign is not capable of providing this. It's not as though the campaign can advertise an event as "for blacks only".

Please show me the candidate, including Sharpton and CMB, that has ever advertised an event as "for blacks only".

[qwlauren35]

69. Well, actually....

It's easy to have a "for blacks only" event. Just put it somewhere that white people refuse to go to. I don't know where you live, but where I live, I can think of plenty of places where I could have an event and white folks would NOT show up.

And yes, it would be done ON PURPOSE, so that African Americans would have the opportunity to be the majority. Honestly, it's not that anyone truly wants black ONLY space, just black MAJORITY space, where there is no fear that the white people who are there are "the enemy".

I was interrupted and lost my train of thought. I think you may be missing my point. It's not that it's possible, but that people want it that creates and issue that needs to be addressed. African-American voters want an opportunity to be in the majority so that their issues dominate the table once in a while.

And no, it's not clear to me that any of the other candidates are offering this... I'm starting to think that the Dems just aren't courting the black vote this year. Or if they are, they aren't making a lot of noise about it.

[ulysses]

71. I still don't see how this is a Dean thing

and not something the other candidates have to address. Being white, though, I may well have missed something.

I live in Atlanta. Yes, it should be easy to set up a Dean meet-up in an African-American neighborhood and not have a bunch of white folks show up, but what if they did? What if you set up a Dean social gathering in East Point and a bunch of well-meaning white liberals showed up? Does it ruin things for that to happen? Insofar as I can, I understand your point about freely voicing opinions in different crowds, but to what extent do we segregate a given campaign?

And why haven't those meet-ups been organized? If Dean genuinely has a race problem, let's talk about why. One of the issues that I had with Nader in the last two elections was the lack of involvement with the black community, but how does a white Democrat and/or progressive connect with that community in 2004, especially with "outreach" now, evidently, being a bad word?

Race is still the 800-lb canary in the corner.

[Schmendrick54]

66. What a wonderful thread!

Hello Lauren,

I think you raise an important issue, and it seems to me that you have already received some useful feedback. I hope mine will be useful, too.

It seems as though you share my reticence about canvassing. I, too, would much rather write a letter than go door-to-door, but I have to admit that when I overcame my fear and did it I found it to be a pretty positive experience.

One of the things I like about the Dean campaign is the encouragement I get to try out new ideas and share what works via the blog or meetups. The downside is the people at Galactic Headquarters are not always readily available to answer your questions, but there seems to always be hundreds of volunteers (like you and I) monitoring the blog and ready to come up with suggestions on how to do things.

One other observation I would like to share is that I did a quick tally of all of the replies to this thread just before I posted this, and I counted

2 - Warnings that you would be attacked by Deanies;

5 - Replies that were from Deanies and very complimentary;

and 0 (that's zero, nada) - Posts which were attacks by Deanies.

I am not suggesting that such a thing does not exist, just noting some anecdotal data.

Thanks again for your post.

Regards,
Schmendrick

[quaker bill]

74. It is not for 'for whites only'

Our local meetup is chaired by a black woman. Blacks and hispanics were in the group. I do not know that this is true everywhere in the campaign nationally at the grassroots level. I suspect that it is not. Outreach will be required of any campaign.

I disagree slightly with your point about African-Americans. People involved in presidential politics this far in advance of an election are a somewhat self-selecting lot. Most people that I know have not actually begun to focus on the election yet, and that goes for any race.

The people I have met who are involved anywhere this early on are largely movement activists or folks with disposable time and/or money. Most folks are still focused on making a living, Christmas, and raising their kids. This will change as the election draws near.
I think that is is simply too soon to make a judgement in this regard.

[cigarstore]

76. Howard Brush Dean will not be the nominee

Mark my words

[Hope4]

77. Why?

Why? Have you talk to Bill and Hillary?

[arendt]

79. This thread confirms my fear that the Black community is on the verge...

of giving up on Democracy.

Somewhere in this thread it said that AAs are
going the separatist route.

> half of the problem is the tendency of today's African-Americans
> to self-segregate

This is the Republicans dream come true. Perhaps the
straw that broke the camel's back was when the Democrats,
by their cave-in in Florida 2000, convinced the blacks
that since the Dems would't fight for white interests, they sure
as hell wouldn't fight for black interests. So, I can sure
sympathize. BTW - in today's economic climate, what is
the take in the black community about the new welfare
system?

But, when other posters say: "we are angry that we are being
taken for granted and have nowhere else to go; we may just
sit on our hands"; I say to you: every liberal in the Democratic
Party has been triangulated to death for ten years by the DLC.
You aren't the only ones taken for granted. Hell, you've got
Sharpton and Braun, which is as many candidates as I can
enthusiastically support (Kucinich and Dean). Just fight the
fight. I assure you that us liberals are as sick of Bush as you are.

Somewhere else it said that preachers swing a lot of
weight and civil unions are a serious issue.

Let's see, blacks who have been persecuted for
200 years in this country refuse to vote for a candidate
who refuses to persecute gays who have been persecuted
just as long. Where is the logic in that?

If the Dems have to choose between gays and blacks, then
we are doomed. Don't minorities get that they are the
beneficiaries of tolerance and compromise?

----

I live in Massachusetts, where the black population is about
1% I thiink. What am I supposed to do, travel 50 miles to find
the Boston Black community? I'm busy trying to convert the
local white dittoheads.

Can't we all just pull together? Well, I can see what the answer
would be; so, yeah, from your point of view it is no sure thing
to try this. Thinking some more, I can see that blacks might
think southern democrats (the few actually left) are more
likely to support blacks than northern democrats.

So, in the end, all I can ask is that you judge the campaign
yourself, in person, and don't make up your mind based on
all the spin and lies from the corporate media and the
fundamentalist churches.

Sorry. This whole post is incoherent. If I offended, I;m sorry.
It just was one of my worst nightmares confirmed at a time
when I just didn't need that.

arendt

on edit: inserted "since" in second paragraph

[Gman]

80. Thank you Lauren

for posting something on an issue that I believe the future of this country if not the world depends on.

You may have noticed another thread that I caused a bit of a riot on here: http://www.democraticunderground.com/discuss/duboard.php?az=show_topic&forum=102&topic_id=265127#265296

In the old days, African-Americans had to yell, scream, march, agitate, protest and do it again to finally be heard and recognized. Hopefully after enough agitating, yelling and screaming Dean will get it.

I am well aware that there are Dean supporters, if not the governor his self, that are concerned about the lack of color in prominent positions in Dean's campaign. (I would also hope and expect that the Governor shares those concerns but I'm not convinced he does in a real way.) Unfortunately for Dean's supporters, (and I don't mean this in a bad way) too many of Dean's supporters are too white to understand how to include the AA community. Putting up a website for African Americans for Dean doesn't reach a lot of AA's. While there are, of course, a good many AA's that will visit that site, it won't reach the people in the poor inner city that are just hoping the power company will accept their arrangements to pay their bill and not cut the power off. I suggest there are many times more eligible voters in the inner cities that would vote for Dean or whoever the candidate is if they were talked to face to face as they don't even own a computer for many reasons, not the least of which is computers are not cool.

However, regardless of how Dean's supporters feel, the lead must come from Dean his self. Dean has to go to South Carolina and speak in the Black churches and NOT take the TV cameras and NOT have a press conference there. Dean has to go to Mississippi and meet with the Black preachers ... and NOT take the TV cameras with him and make it a media event. Dean has to go to Alabama and find out what it's like to be male, young, Black, unskilled, undereducated and very unemployed. Or go find out what it's like to work at the rendering plant by putting on rubber boots and a heavy apron and working... and not gratuitiously take the TV cameras or have a press conference. If Dean were to anonymously do these things, I guarantee you word would spread within the AA community like wildfire for many miles around and without one word about it on the national news.

Dean ALSO has to talk with the many African American corporate professionals (who by virtue of their socioeconomic status are statistically more likely to vote, regardless of race) and explain to them why they should support Dean and not Bush. He has to address them NOT on the issue of the plight of being Black in America today, but on their own concerns about why Dean can do a better job for them with the Dow at 10,000 than Bush. He needs to talk to them about why he should take back their tax cut. Young AA professionals really don't care about MLK or civil rights. That's something from the history books. They want to know what Dean, or whoever the nominee is, will do about a weak dollar in relation to the trade deficit and how he will strenghten their own buying power as well as improve conditions for them to make a better ROI on their own investments.

Dean has a race problem not of his intentional making, but simply because he, up until now, has been virtually unknown in the AA community nationwide. And, if Dean has a race problem, then by extension in November, the Democrats have a race problem, which means me and my family have a BIG problem figuring out how we'll make it the next four years, and that is not good. Its not Dean's fault that he comes from a state with a .5% AA population. Dean just does not have the benefit of having lived in the South and knowing what it takes to connect with AA voters. Dean doesn't have the perfect experience of being raised as a child surrounded by an AA community. (BTW, don't give me the "he worked in an inner city hospital" stuff. W did community service time in Houston's 5th ward for his cocaine conviction and look at him.) And Dean is absolutely NOT going to connect with the AA community through references to MLK. Black folks have a very accurate and high capacity radar for empty rhetoric (i.e. bullshit), especially from white folks. When Dean talks about MLK after he steps in it over the Confederate flag snafu, that's how it comes across, good intentions not withstanding.

As Lauren has so eloquently pointed out, if the AA community feels they do not have a meaningful place at the table (i.e. not in charge of how many more AA's can you get to vote for Dean), but substantive input on structuring responses and issue policy, they will stay home on election day and not think twice about it. After all, for a great many AA's, after 400 years, just how much worse can it really get? At least they're not slaves any more. (Don't get offended. Blacks actually explain away things just like that.) A great many AA's have had it this way their entire lives, so what's four more years?

Dean needs to get the message and get it right now. June is too late.
Tomorrow is not soon enough but will have to work.

Dean needs a serious shot of Donna Brazille.

[angee_is_mad]

82. Preach my brother, PREACH!!!

[qwlauren35]

83. Hmmmm!

YOu make it sound as though most of the youngbloods are REPUBLICANS! And maybe you're closer to the truth than I want to believe.

I admit that I care about my ROI. But I also care about my libraries, schools, local swimming pools and parks and other things that the government sponsors. I admit, I'm a socialist at heart.

I think you're right the the young professionals WITH JOBS are caring about the standard points of the economy. But I also think that the young professionals who do NOT have jobs are caring about the job market. And a lot of us with jobs whose friends do NOT have jobs are worried about our friends.

So, I think Dean can reach us from that angle, as long as he can show fiscally that those of us with 401K's will not suffer under his leadership. Some things are beyond Dean's control. The fall of the dollar against Europe, for example. He actually has an excellent track record with labor issues. I just think it's going to take some amazing out-of-the-box thinking to get Americans employed again, and better still not UNDERemployed. The rise in low paying service sector job opportunities and the loss of high paying tech jobs overseas is hurting our middle class. My personal belief is that until we can undo 50 years of government programming toward individualism and me'ism (which all that post WWII suburban tract housing spawned) and return to living clannishly, we will HATE whatever new jobs are offered...

[Gman]

88. Regarding the youngbloods...

The point is to not address them with the same generic message about civil rights, discrimination, etc. The folks I've talked to say they don't want to hear about that as its ancient history. One guy in particular told me, "...and I hated history." They do not suspect or even fear discrimination as they often work in solid corporations where they have been recognized accordingly for their contributions to shareholder wealth. They often see people of colour in high positions so they know they can get there too. So, the "traditional" approach to AA's of civil rights and discrimination do not work, and may even insult the youngbloods.

I really think when we see figures like Gore getting 90% of the AA vote, the other 10% were these youngbloods that are more often becoming independents and even Republicans. Resources would be better spent targeting these guys with the same message sent to all independents and liberal Republicans.

But, for time and money reasons, we shouldn't expend any special effort attracting youngblood votes than we would any other higher level socioeconomic demographic. There are many times more votes out in the hood that can be targeted in voter registration drives and GOTV drives that can make the difference.

[catherineD]

87. If Dean wanted voters with playboy logos on trucks, it would repel me

So why would anyone want to join a guy who wants to bring on board voters with confederate flags on their trucks? These have got to be the most conservative and racist voters in America and he wants them voting for him? If he were able to put together a coalition that included them, do you think Dean would dare be "pro" black issues? He'd be pandering to the guys in his coalition.

As a woman, it would be as if Dean were saying he'd like to bring on board a bunch of guys with Playboy logos on their trucks. How could I be interested in voting for a guy who thought that was a good idea? Leave these kinds of people to the Republican party and find a candidate who has a proven record of supporting African-Americans. (Clark filed a friend of the court brief with the Supreme Court in the past, I believe, supporting affirmative action.)