L.A. Tmes boycott for "anti-Israel" stance...

[loudnclear]

http://www.chronwatch.com/content/contentDisplay.asp?aid=5276

Why is it that Israel complains to the UN and the US when Arabs want to boycott Israel, yet it's ok for Israeli supporters to call for boycotts whenever they want? This is especially unnerving because it is a newspaper. I mean, anyone should be free to boycott whatever they want but when the shoe is on the other foot, they should shut up. I've had enough of hypocrisy.

[pistoff democrat]

1. Bad analogy.

People can and should boycott corporate entities with which they disagree.

Countries boycotting countries seems somehow wrong, doncha think?

[Liberal Veteran]

5. I think countries boycotting countries is called sanctions.

And I have no problem with sanctions used appropriately.

[durutti]

19. Cuba?

Cuba? Iraq? Countries routinely boycott other countries.

[Loonman]

2. One set of rules for Israel

Different set of rules for everyone else.

[creativelcro]

4. that's right

[Blitz]

12. Lord knows that's true

And I think it will always be thus (or at least until Israel is destroyed).

[durutti]

20. I hope Israel isn't destroyed.

But I fear you're right.

[democracyindanger]

3. Chronwatch is wingnut press

I use the term 'press' loosely and 'wingnut' with added emphasis.

[Terwilliger]

6. Israeli organizations have made co-ordinated attacks on newspapers...

in the last few years.

It's definitely happening, and I'm surprised more people aren't thoroughly pissed off by these activities.

[Dan I am]

8. Israel has a reason

Israel does what it does out of necessity. It pains me when people believe that in order to be an activist liberal, you have to side with the Europeans in condeming Israel.

The fact is, there is too much Anti-Jewish and Anti-Israeli sentiment here.

If you were fighting a war against an enemy that plays by ZERO rules and lives right next door to you, I think you would feel markedly different than you do about Israel's tactics. They go out of there way to attempt to prevent civilian casualties which is much more than their enemies would do.

[thebigidea]

9. Little Israel must be defended at ALL COSTS!

perhaps Little Israel should erect a fence around the LA Times so its sickening propaganda does not infect others.

[Bombtrack]

10. Amen. the anti-israel chic has really sunk in deep on the acitivist left

there are alot of the more free-thinking, well informed leftists who, like me, despise the "zionism is racism" crowd, but they just aren't vocal enough

[durutti]

25. Leftists?

No. Liberals, yes. I take exception to the idea of "leftists" defending apartheid.

[Must_B_Free]

31. Ahhh - the tactics are revealed

Paint anyone who is liberal like christ as a "leftist" so they can all be rounded up as terrorists.

[Malva Zebrina]

29. but it seems to me

a relative detached observer, that Israel is increasingly wanting to expand it's territory and is increasingly abusing others on thatland in order to do so.

Why is Israel expanding it's territory by force? I read that Israel is losing it's purely Jewish citizens, for one thing. When one looses it's pure culture , as the Jewish culture has been, and begins to assimilate others into it's culture, an upheaveal is predictable because of the mix.

I read that Sharon wants to restore Israel to it's "biblical" boundaries for another thing. That in and of itself is an incredible goal,-- to claim a god , thousands of years ago, gave to his "chosen people" a certain amount of land in the ME, as if this god were an independant real estate agent making deals and granting land out to those who followed him. That, to me, is an incredible bit of logic and religious belief that has no verifiable credibility at all.

I think that eventually , Israel will be defeated in some way again. I do not wish for it, because I abhor the loss of human life in order to pursue such stupidity. I would have it that Israel would exist peacefully with it's neighbors without displaying it's superior military, provided by the US.

But I do think that in some future time, Israel will again be defeated in spite of all of it's accumulation of weapons if it continues on it's current course.

It is still surrounded by Arabs who are becoming really pissed off at the US,which as everyone knows is bound at the hip with Israel. In this case, since Israel is often the arrogant aggressor, and since it would be deemed a "war", I think that it would probably be the best thing for the stabilisation of the middle east for Israel to sink into the sea or be defeated and ousted. End of conflict, death and destruction of innocent people.

[Terwilliger]

11. honey, they used to not be the neighbors

and they've been mighty un-neighborly ever since

And now, you folks are so stringent in your ideas and goals that you have to be un-American and squash dissent and everybody who disagrees with you is anti-Semitic...

yeah, I've heard it allllll before

[Bombtrack]

13. How many Israeli homicide-bombers murder people in muslim countries?

or finance the murders? What percentage of Israeli jews are taught from birth that Arabs are by there very arabness evil and demonic?

I don't label everyone who is part of the "pro-palestinian" hard-left anti-semetic, but alot of them are a little to sympathetic to the anti-semetic islamofascists who are Israels biggest enemies

[thebigidea]

14. what's a homicide bomber? I don't do FOX lingo

[Name removed]

16. Deleted message

Message removed by moderator. Click here to review the message board rules.

[durutti]

27. Phew, good thing you didn't post that in I/P!

You'd be banned for a week.

[Cassandra]

57. Personally, I prefer homicide/suicide bomber

A suicide bomber would be killing only him/herself, while it is more accurate to indicate that these are people who intend to kill themselves and as many others as possible.

[DACT]

63. Translation: it's not homicide because Jews are not really people :sarcasm

These bombings are homicides no doubt!!!!

[Terwilliger]

15. so you're an Israeli before you're an American?

what about the Liberty? You going to demand accountability?

Israel creates its own problems and the US lets them do it with impunity.

[Bombtrack]

18. That is a blatant excuse for murder

terrorism is never justified, and you just did it. Doesn't surprise me your a hostile Deanie

[Terwilliger]

36. in fact, I'm a Kucinich supporter

if terrorism is never justified, why are is US history REPLETE with terrorism?

As much as you may not like the notion, desperate people do desperate things. Do you think Israel is simply some innocent bystander?

[durutti]

40. I agree.

Terrorism is never justified -- whether it's done by Palestiniansor by the IDF.

Of course, seeking to understand why people commit acts of terrorism isn't the same thing as justifying those acts.

[Aidoneus]

23. density is not a virtue

The Zionist state has tanks and jets, and have used these tools to murder thousands in every decade since its birth. (I had to think about that claim, but I cannot think of any decade since Israel came into existance where they have not killed thousands)

[Bombtrack]

28. And it wouldn't have needed to kill anyone were it not under attack

from maniacle islamists.

Post-zionism is the only legitimate and just school of thought as far as I'm concerned.

[Name removed]

30. Deleted message

Message removed by moderator. Click here to review the message board rules.

[Scott Lee]

35. Not that the ongoing subjugation of Palestinians means anything, eh?

Oh heavens no. Arabs just woke up one day and decided they were going to strap dynamite to their chests after lunch. for ha-has.

Thanks

[Bombtrack]

41. the Palestinians are citizens, not subjects

and one of the main reasons they continue to fail to become a prosperous people, is that they, like 90 percent of the rest of middle east, have corrupted and/or ineffective leaders who scapegoat the israelis/jews and blame them for all problems

the terrorists are either justified or they aren't, it's like being a little bit pregnant. And Israel either should have a common defense from terrorism or they shouldn't.

The fact that the Israeli government has made plenty mistakes is a seperate issue

[Scott Lee]

55. Funny way to treat citizens - blow up their homes, kill them,

seize their lands, rob their dignity.

[Bombtrack]

58. The government doesn't target non-terrorists

and it doesn't seize there land, unless you subscribe to the anti-zionist BS that the jews have no right to there homeland

[durutti]

26. What percentage of Israeli Jews?

You'd be surprised.

Currently, parties that are part of the Sharon coalition (as well as some in Sharon's own party) openly advocate ethnic cleansing. These groups hold rallies where they chant, "Expel the Arab enemy!"

And even by the admission of the U.S. State Department, racism is rampant in Israel.

Of course, not every Israeli Jew hates Arabs. But the same is true of Palestinians, especially among the more educated.

[Jim Sagle]

34. Yeah, we're so pushy. I've heard THAT all before, too.

:puke:

[Cassandra]

56. Jews have never "not been the neighbors"

There have always been Jews there; now there are more of them.

[Jim Sagle]

59. Oh, you're just being argumentative.

:hi:

[democracyindanger]

17. Welcome to DU

A few points:

1) I, personally (and I believe almost all liberals, because of the whole liberals-are-more-open-minded-and-seek-information thing) don't choose positions because they're "liberal"; my positions define me as a liberal;

2) "The fact is, there is too much Anti-Jewish and Anti-Israeli sentiment here." I assume you mean DU, and sorry, but I think that's a completely unfounded and indefensible statement. You're suggesting that anti-Semitism flourishes here, and that's just plain insulting;

3) Neither side is without blame. Both contribute to the problem.

Again, welcome to DU.

[durutti]

24. Ummm... no.

Israel does what it does out of necessity.

Expelling 700,000 Arabs wasn't necessary. Neither were Deir Yassin and the other massacres that occurred during the War of Independence, the Law of Return, the military administration under which Palestinians lived for 18 years, the expropriation of Palestinian land, segregation, the Jewish National Fund, the Sinai campaign, the Six Day War, the invasion of Lebanon, or Sabra and Shatila. And neither are torture, terror, collective punishment, and occupation.

It pains me when people believe that in order to be an activist liberal, you have to side with the Europeans in condeming Israel.

Liberals have always been just as pro-Zionist as conservatives.

The fact is, there is too much Anti-Jewish and Anti-Israeli sentiment here.

I've never seen any DUer post anything even vaguely "anti-Jewish".

Anti-Semitism and criticism of Israel are not the same thing. To conflate the two is itself anti-Semitic.

On the other hand, I've seen many displays of anti-Arab and anti-Muslim bigotry, mostly from conservative Zionist posters.

If you were fighting a war against an enemy that plays by ZERO rules and lives right next door to you, I think you would feel markedly different than you do about Israel's tactics.

Plays by zero rules? No Arab country has ever invaded Israel. Israel has violated more UNSC resolutions than any Arab country.

They go out of there way to attempt to prevent civilian casualties which is much more than their enemies would do.

This opinion is not shared by Amnesty International, Human Rights Watch, B'Tselem, Physicians for Human Rights, or any other mainstream, credible human rights group; or the United Nations. I trust them just a bit more than the IDF.

During the first Intifada, for every one Israeli that was killed, the Israelis killed 10 Palestinians. During this Intifada, Israel has killed 3 Palestinians for each Israeli killed, 80 percent of them noncombatants. 40 Palestinians have required hospitalization for every Israeli wounded.

[durutti]

22. Who reports it?

Of course people aren't pissed off. They don't know about it. Right-wing Zionist groups have scared the media away from critical coverage of Israeli policy.

[durutti]

21. Indeed

Another well-funded propaganda machine.

[RPG-7]

7. Do you think the LA Times gives a crap?

You will never, ever, ever, make "chronwatch" happy unless you sound like some parody of Fox News. Their ideas on "objectivity" would be hillarious if it wasn't so lethal. Read the things they gripe about:

Angry that the times reported a story that no one else did about Israeli involvement in American Iraqi Intelligence. Does that even make sense?

Angry that there was a story about Israeli attrocity that didn't include some ritual condemnation of Palestinians. (When there is a mention of Israeli attrocity in context of a Palestinian attrocity there is a completely different standard and shows "anti-Israeli bias")

These same bunch of idiots have been yowling away for years at the LA Times and the paper isn't in any danger of folding any time soon.

[OhioStateProgressive]

32. anti semitism is sick, and it is widespread in america and the world

i find it revolting how much anti semitism is on the left

Israels policy is slightly fascist

I can't blame them for it

[Aidoneus]

33. "Israels policy is slightly fascist / I can't blame them for it"

could you please expand on that?

[OhioStateProgressive]

39. yes

I am pro Israel

I find many of Israels actions offensive lately, but I cannot blame or criticize them right now, the fact of the terror bombings makes it hard for me to condemn Israel right now

[Bombtrack]

37. you can't blame people for racism?

every single islamic arab country is a million times closer to being fascist than israel is

It's a democracy with an established religion, just like England

[OhioStateProgressive]

38. what??

I am pro Israel

I cannot blame Israel for it's actions when they face suicide bombers

I also find their administration laws harsh, but i cannot ciriticize them when their peopel are being slaughtered

I am sorry it came out wrong

[Bombtrack]

42. ok, point taken

you have alot more sense than probably half the posters on this thread

[durutti]

43. Wrong on all three points.

1. There is very little anti-Semitism on the left. You're conflating criticism of Israel with anti-Semitism -- an act which is itself anti-Semitic. (And it's no more logical than accusing critics of U.S. policy of being "anti-American".) I am a leftist. I read leftist publications on a regular basis. Most of my friends are leftists. And I've never seen or heard a leftist say or do anything anti-Semitic.

The only thing that comes close is Moran's remark about Jews and the Iraq war of a few months ago. That statement really *was* anti-Semitic.

2. Israel is in no way fascist. I am a tireless critic of Israel's oppressive policies, but Israel is still worlds away from fascism. The comparison between Israel and Nazi Germany is hyperbole.

3. You can blame them for it -- indeed, you should -- because they, like all people, should be held accountable for their actions.

[OhioStateProgressive]

44. hmmm

i can't marry my Israeli girlfriend and have it recognized when we go to Israel because I am not Jewish...that ,too me, is slightly fascist

there is a ton of anti semitism in the world, and alot of it is on the Left...a TON of it is on the right as well, and i was unfair in my two sentence post (always happens when you take the short cut)

I am sorry to upset you with my post, Israel does much to be criticized about, but I cannot criticize them for actions in response to terror

[Terwilliger]

45. is that like slightly pregnant?

maybe they get what they give...ever think of that?

[OhioStateProgressive]

46. yeah, just like they give back what they are given

it's a two sided issue, and constant condemnation of Israel without equal condemnation of terror is repulsive

I know most disagree, I don't care, I won't debate further on this issue

[Terwilliger]

48. why not?

Look, I want to slam Palestinians for using terror to effect political change, but they're KILLING themselves...the problem is getting worse...a war criminal is the leader of the Israeli government...I simply cannot fault the Palestinians when their only other choice is simply to surrender.

[OhioStateProgressive]

49. understood

i think that is fair assessment

it is a bad situation, but I see peopel criticizing "Israel", when they should be criticizing Sharon

[Terwilliger]

50. Sharon represents a large train of thought within Israel

it's kinda like the Repuke party here in the US, see what I mean? there are people dying today and few are really addressing a solution to the problem

Having pro-Israel groups going around threatening the (maginally) free press in the US does NOT elevate them in my standing.

[OhioStateProgressive]

52. i still thinks its wrong, blame the leader not the people(nt)

[Jim Sagle]

54. Yeah, but then I sobered up.

[Hope4]

47. At one time the largest owner of LA times was the Mormon church

I was shocked when I found that out. I do not know if it still is.

Maybe that has something to do with it.

[Deja Q]

51. Why isn't this in the Isreali affairs board?

:shrug:

[Jim Sagle]

53. Damn good question. Although it really belongs in the shitter.

[tinnypriv]

60. Can't believe this BS got to 50+ posts

Did anyone even read the ChronWatch piece (which would be immediately locked in FA/IP because it is a bullshit outfit)?

Try it. It's hilarious.

[Jim Sagle]

61. Or in other words, this thread ain't nuthin' but shit.

[tinnypriv]

62. You could say that

I'd hate to imitate though.