For the record, 'ABB' kicks in after the primaries.

[WilliamPitt]

ABB = 'Anyone But Bush' = Whoever the nominee is will get my vote, money and vociferous support. Period. No questions necessary.

But the primaries are still more than a month away. Primaries = hard fighting, vetting, yelling, anger, excitement, endorsements, mudfights, screaming, hair-pulling, teeth-gnashing, etc. Thus it has always been. Thus it should be, for two reasons:

1. Whoever the nominee becomes will need to have gone through a blast furnace first, so as to be hardened for the GOP onslaught. You think we got dirt to sling here? We just use Google. Wait until the GOP, with its hundreds of millions of dollars, gets through spending a chunk of that on opposition research. The nominee better be ready for that, and the hard-core primary process is part of the deal;

2. The Framers designed American democracy to be messy. When it isn't messy, something has gone wrong.

For myself, I will be 100% ABB once a candidate has nailed down the nomination. I will ram a yard sign into my skull and walk all over town with it waving high above my head. I will paste candidate stickers over all of my face, leaving open space only for one eye and half my mouth. I will write and write and write for that candidate. I will do everything I can.

But until then, I reserve the right to brawl, to disagree, to refuse to march in lock-step with any seemingly inevitable nominee. ABB is for later. Now, we are in the Framer's world, and the primary score is still zero to zero to zero to zero to zero to zero to zero to zero to zero.

I remember walking around Manchester on the night of the 1992 primaries in New Hampshire. The Buchanan people were screaming at the Bush people in the streets, really tearing each others guts out right in the middle of the road. We at DU have not invented something with our fighting and arguments here. This is the way it works.

Fret about unity elsewhere. Unity comes after the nomination. Primary politics is rough, always has been, always will be. Frankly, I have tried before here to advocate for everyone playing nicey-nice. It is never gonna happen, because it cuts against the grain of what primary politics are all about.

Bring a helmet.

(Edited to note clearly that, per the civility rules, it is best to disagree without being disagreeable)

[MaineDem]

1. "Nail on the head" comes to mind

Thank you, Will.

[slinkerwink]

2. uh, ok.

It was very nice of you to take Dean's quotes out of context though. That's a nice preparation for the "blast furnace" now. So your nefarious plan is revealed, to play devil's advocate against ANY of the candidates, right?

[WilliamPitt]

6. I called it like I saw it

and I'm not sold on the explanations I was given. But that's for another thread.

[La_Serpiente]

3. Tantaran

*Charge*

[vi5]

4. I agree, which is why the thin skin on here is more disheartening

than anything else. Really, people crying and whining that the slightest bit of disagreement or scrutiny on their candidate is "bashing" and somehow makes them a martyr is just sad and doesn't bode well for us.

[WilliamPitt]

7. I hesitate to say this

but I think that, for a goodish number of people here, this might be the first campaign they've ever really gotten root-down into.

[adadem]

20. Me, too

All of a sudden there are a bunch of new faces at our local Dem Party meetings. Which is great except that the ones supporting a certain candidate are alienating many people. I have a feeling that after the campaign season is over we'll never see them again.

[Schmendrick54]

45. Alienation - wasn't that a TV show?

Hello Cheryl,

It is great news about the bunch of new faces at your local Dem Party meetings. I am truly sorry to hear that some of them are alienating people. I am one of the new people at my local meetings, and I hope I have not alienated anyone.

When you say that you get the feeling that they'll disappear after the campaign season, I presume you mean the general election season. In that case, I am sure you are right about some of them, but speaking for myself, the last three years have awakened in me a realization that politics in this country is a dreadfully important part of life. After we remove the unelected fraud from office, some of the outrage which served as motivation will dissipate, but I think a lot of us will find the feeling of satisfaction which accompanies such an achievement will keep many of us coming back for more.

At least, it is to be hoped.

I am a little disappointed to hear that a particular candidate's supporters are alienating others. Do you really feel that this trait is unique to one candidate's supporters? Is it a possible that much of this alienation would disappear if the candidate was not leading? (Boy, I know that question sounds like I am trying to be a jerk -- but I really am not. I truly want to defeat Bush more than I want my particular candidate to win, so I am really trying to figure out how to help all of us find a way to work together to achieve that goal.)

Well, I guess my hole is deep enough now. I shall stop digging.

Regards,
Scmendrick

[DancingBear]

40. Hey, I can dig it

You mean populism didn't get invented 3 months ago???

I'm psyched......

:) :)

[frank frankly]

51. true for me

and I think we all might die, so I am REALLY deep into it

[wryter2000]

5. Provided it's accurate

If I see one more "Dean/Clark/Mosely-Braun/Sharpton voted for the IWR and/or the Patriot Act" post, I'll scream.

[adadem]

22. Screaming with you

ARRRRRGH!

[curse10]

8. Yeah!

We have to keep the brawling and bashing goin' on- we have to stay on our toes.

(P.s. are you gonna be at the Kerry b-day bash tonight?)

[WilliamPitt]

9. Where is it?

[curse10]

12. copley westin

it's a minimum 250 donation :-(

Unless you're lucky like me and have a ticket through the young lawyers association.

[meegbear]

19. C'mon Will ...

I'm sure you'll find a way in.

[MaineDem]

16. I have a ticket but can't get down there.

Have a good time! :)

[mmm]

10. fair enough

I can live with that

[Zomby Woof]

11. I have trumpeted many of these same points

In particular: "Primaries = hard fighting, vetting, yelling, anger, excitement, endorsements, mudfights, screaming, hair-pulling, teeth-gnashing, etc. Thus it has always been. Thus it should be."

And: "The Framers designed American democracy to be messy. When it isn't messy, something has gone wrong."

(Though I will add that many of the framers - Hamilton comes to mind - frowned on democracy in a purer form, likening it to mob rule, but you're close enough to the point I have made over and over about the necessity of all voices clamoring to be heard. Sometimes it isn't pretty, nor should be).

I have said more than once, once the nominee is decided, I will eagerly cast my vote to remove Bush from office. I don't care if anyone wants to dismiss that as a protest vote. A vote is a vote - Diebold nothwithstanding, they all count the same.

[mzmolly]

13. And ABD kicks in now...

:P

[Q]

14. I think you missed the point of...

...my 'what happened to the anyone but Bushers' thread.

- I was referring to those who feel compelled to go beyond mere argumentation and get into character assassination of candidates they don't want to see win the nomination. Worse yet...these same posters sometimes use the opposition's talking points to trash Democratic candidates. In the end result...it's nothing more than spreading lies and giving the Right more ammunition.

- No one if 'fretting' about unity. But we should fret about the way we treat each other and the future of the Democratic party.

[WilliamPitt]

28. It's funny

You enjoy calling me 'egomaniacal' at times, and yet somehow think I started this thread with you in mind.

[meegbear]

15. Let's rumble!

I'll take yah ALL on!!

[curse10]

18. I've seen ya meegbear

I'll stay outta your way! :-)

[meegbear]

23. I'll let you win the first round

;-)

[adadem]

17. On the mark

once again, Will.

I need to be able to trust a candidate that I will support financially and "emotionally" (that's what it's all about)

For me to begin to trust Dean again just because Al Gore says so
ain't gonna fly. This former staunch supporter of Al Gore just lost
faith in him when he attempted to get me to "fall in line", if you will. I will line up behind the candidate with the most integrity, honesty and vision.

I have no faith in Dr. Dean and I am glad that, finally, the other candidates are bringing him to task for his misleading statements on his support for the invasion of Iraq. With the exception of Rep Kucinich, Dean is in line with the other candidates who HAD to make the decision to approve or decline the resolution including Lugar-Biden. Will the media report this discrepancy?...probably not.

For the sake of our country and our children's future I pray that my "gut feeling" is wrong....that a Dean vs Bush matchup in the general will lead to four more years of Republican rule.

[adadem]

26. and my point was

that all the candidates must be vetted out and held up to what they relly stand for. If their soundbites are untrue then they, including Bush, must be held accountable. This did not happen in the last presidential campaign. We must make sure it does happen this time...first in the primary then in the general.

[Wetzelbill]

21. and so on principle.......

Kucinich gets my vote in the primaries.

Next up a wholehearted and exuberant vote for ABB.

But I always loved the idea of a Kerry-Edwards ticket. I'm sorry, but if Dean gets the nomination, I think we missed the boat on a couple tad better candidates.

[dave29]

24. Bring it on

lets do this

;)

[Tierra_y_Libertad]

25. ABB? No problem. But, I may be voting Green.

If any of the Rose Garden four should manage to steal the nomination from Dean or Clark.

[chimpymustgo]

44. Might one of them get the nomination by getting the most votes?

Quite unfair to implicate them in derring-do. There are many good candidates - let the voters decide who they want.

[Andy_Stephenson]

27. Will Please don't do this

"I will ram a yard sign into my skull and walk all over town with it waving high above my head."

A mind is a terrible thing to waste. :)

[WilliamPitt]

30. Uh...well...I already shaved a bald spot on top of my skull...

so I guess I'm locked in here. :)

[Andy_Stephenson]

34. Bet you look like a monk...

even though you don't act like one.

[Zomby Woof]

29. THIS ABB kicks in NOW!

[WilliamPitt]

31. *bass line to Whipping Post kicks in*

:)

[Wetzelbill]

32. why the hell did I laugh at posts 29 and 31?

[Zomby Woof]

33. *flicks lighter*

:-)

[DancingBear]

41. Sometimes I feel like I'm dyin'

<recalls days of seeing ABB at Fillmore East>

[Terwilliger]

35. I would hope not

ABB post primaries means "I'll vote for anybody who's not Bush" and that might include Nader

Maybe there should be a new slogan after the nom is chosen, unless Nader or Buchanan or the Libertarian is acceptable.

[WilliamPitt]

37. ABBENBL

Anyone But Bush Except Nader, Buchanan or Lieberman.

:)

[Terwilliger]

46. and socialists, and LaRouche, and Natural Law Party, and....

Maybe you should change it to AD - ANY DEMOCRAT

[Green Mountain Dem]

36. For the record...and FWIW....

I have read all the arguments, pro and con, for all the candidates, by all the pundits, all the supporters, and all the detractors and I am still undecided!! The Gore endorsement for Dean, albeit significant, was not enough to sway me into making an ultimate commitment to the Dean campaign.

I have truly enjoyed the contributions that Will Pitt continues to make in this forum, but again, his passion for his candidate has failed to pursuade me that I should cast my vote for Kerry. I am impressed by ALL the candidates, and what they offer for the future of this country.

It is not easy to confront this challenge....which candidate would be best in representing the core values of our Party and be able to lead our Nation out of the depths of despair??

I can tell you this.......if and when, my hero, Sen Robert Byrd, endorses any of the candidates...I will jump in, hook, line and sinker, to support his choice. He is, right now, the sanest voice in America...and it is so sad that we failed to listen to his ominous forebodings of impending disaster in pursuing the path we took.

[goobergunch]

38. The score is not zero all

It's 19-36-10-36-35-3-17-2-2 ;).

Of course, that leaves 3661 delegates to be determined. So it's still anybody's race and your point is well taken.

[LynneSin]

39. Great Post - make sure you take pictures

I want to see how crazy you look with a yard sign sprout from the top of your head and stickers covering your face.

Is this a new look for the next book???

:hug:

BTW - we missed you in Philly!

[Paragon]

42. Guess who's not waiting until after the primaries?

Bush.

Oh, and I'm getting a big kick out of the notion that the other 8 candidates are somehow being squeezed out of the process. No...they're fucking LOSING. There IS a difference.

But let's say Dean pulls out tomorrow --you still won't catch me carpet-bombing the other candidates. I'm smarter than that, and I thought you were, too.

[VelmaD]

43. Sorry I'm late...

I was busy fighting about Muslim dress codes for women. Vice-president of ABB reporting for duty, sir. :-)

Seriously though, you'd think people had never seen a primary before. Were these people not alive in 1980 or something when Teddy Kennedy got down and dirty with a sitting president? Were they not paying attention early on in 1988 when it seemed like everyone on earth was running for the Democratic nomination?

Good lord people, this is the fun part. :evilgrin: Nothing in the world like a big ol' family feud. Once we have a nominee we all have to start pretending to get along again. Booooo-ring. If you don't like this you're never gonna survive the general election.

[MaineDem]

47. Umm, I even remember '68

and '72.

It's what draws me to politics like a moth to a flame. Those who get it, get it. Others don't.

You're absolutely correct.

And about those headscarves... :)

[Crewleader]

48. Love it!

:7

[WilliamPitt]

49. Kick

[frank frankly]

50. exact-o, yo

yard sign through your skull and walk all over town...LOL!

I hear you, brother, loud and clear.

not a single vote has been cast.

it is getting interesting.

[Myra]

52. Perfectly said WillPitt. Thank you.

Thank you also for defining "ABB."
I had no friggen clue what that meant.

[HuckleB]

53. One thing.

Why is it that we would love to see a Repub challenge Georgie and pound him all the way?

I suspect it's because we know that a pounding in the primaries softens him up.

So, why is it that a pounding in the primary doesn't do the same thing to our eventual candidate?