Changing minds and candidate loyalty

[nomaco-10]

I was perusing GD as is often my afternoon ritual and was was just struck by some of the things I read. I thought my queries could be clarified by some of the posters here, new and old. First question, how is it so many of you can go from Dennis Kucinich to John Kerry? Seems a real stretch for me, but maybe someone could enlighten me, then perhaps somebody else can explain to me how you leave the most exciting grassroots democratic campaign in years (Howard Dean) and say you'll vote third party or not at all if he is the nominee? Please note that I did not include General Wesley Clark because this thread is actually not about flamebaiting, and I certainly don't perceive most Clark supporters as ABD people, atleast not yet.

If you started out with Lieberman, I can see transfering your support to Kerry or Gephardt or Edwards, I don't need that "splained" to me. I've decided it's pretty safe to consider myself ABL, but I'm not worried about any repercusions of that since Joe has about as much chance of getting the nom as I do of Hugh Hefner calling to ask me to pose for Playboy.

I have been behind my chosen candidate since early August and vowed to keep an open mind as the process went on thru the ensuing months, I am one of the lucky ones, my candidate represents my views and I have not had to question very many of his stands on the issues, and the questions I have had, have been answered to my satisfaction.

Before this turns into a Dean/Clark/Kerry free for all, let me say this, I admire the General's stance on the war and I could throw him my support if he is the last candidate standing, enough said.

There is a much posted link to the presidentselect.com sight and I have taken it three times in the last five or six months, do I put a great deal of stock in this survey, not really, but I think it is generally, not specifically a very good indicator where you stand with a candidate on the issues. It ranks the candidates from 1-10 (includes bush*) based on a series of very candid questions on the issues. I could not fathom taking my candidate #6 and replacing him as my #1 when there are five candidates that are more closely in line with my political beliefs.

Nobody owes me or anybody else an explanation of why they support their chosen candidate, but you owe it to yourself to study all the candidates and give each one your full attention because many of us may have to choose an alternative candidate eventually. I only mention this because I see alot of burning bridges going on in here lately.

For me, there are two very clear issues that drive my support, the war and the economy. I also factor in experience in the executive branch of governement and consise and well thought out solutions to this country's problems. I want a president that will surround himself with some of the finest military, financial and diplomacy experts in the world and not be driven by ego and secrecy.

All I ask is that everyone try to discuss this and all other topics with an open mind and stop all this backhanded sniping. I have found myself being turned off by some posters and subject lines because of their heavy handed approach, these are often left unopened by me, and I can only imagine all the great dialog and information they must bring to the table, but it's disregarded because of how it's presented. It really is a shame.

[blm]

1. Kerry and Kucinich are closer on the issues than

many seem to realize. And the two are closest on the environment.

In fact, Kerry had the lifetime liberal rating closest to Wellstone's of all the candidates.

[JohnKleeb]

2. Heck Kerry being generally liberal on the all around issues is what made

him my second choice. Its hard to explain why really why I made Kerry my second choice, I've had him at that longer than the original poster has had their first choice. The reason I assume why one would go from DK to Kerry, is that they dont feel DK will do well yet they wont a liberal who can win. Why I have Kerry at number 2 is because of his overall liberal views, plus I read what he has had to say and it makes sense to me, I am disappointed with that IWR vote but I can follow Ted Kennedy's example. Its hard to explain simply why I do like Kerry as my number 2. Undoubtly, the Kerry supporters have helped, and looking at Kerry myself has too. Its true though, Kerry is among the more liberals in the race though. BTW I am for sure not the only DK supporter who has him at number 2.

[blm]

9. Odd that someone as young as you are has more of a grasp of

history and the facts than many twice or three times your age. I can't tell you how many people will swear that Kerry is more conservative than Dean.

[redqueen]

10. Yep

Just another sign that we need to hurry up and lower the voting age, already!

:)

[La_Serpiente]

3. Are you asking why a Kucinich supporter can go to Kerry???

If so, I am one of those. I am kind of in a halfway spot, and support both candidates. I'm supporting Kerry because he has had a long history in wiping out corruption at the highest levels. He WAS THE ONE WHO BLEW THE LID ON IRAN/CONTRA!!! To me, that takes a lot of guts and he deserves GREAT respect for that. He was also very active after the Vietnam war in protesting it and even made it to Nixon's list of enemies. He is solid on gun control, someone who I feel has great concern for veterans, and one of my favourites, on the environment. Both of them are practically the same except on Health Care, the Tax Cuts, Trade, and the war (although I honestly do believe that we would not be in Iraq if Kerry was president).

I trust Kerry a lot basically. I know that he would never do anything corrupt. On top of that, he understand the issues of not just domestic concerns, but of international relations. We live in a radically different world - a post 9/11 world, and 2 years from now, it won't matter whether you voted for the Iraq war or not - you will have to learn how to handle the changing foreign affairs of the world and only someone with experience can handle that.

I also like Kucinich, but I don't like his stance on trade. I would rather we have fair trade and reforming the WTO/ NAFTA, etc. instead of pulling out of the trade groups. I agree with every single issue that he speaks of though.

But to speak more highly of Kucinich, he talks of Peace as a goal - and I REALLY REALLY LIKE THAT!!!! A bunch of people on this board say that he is unelectable - well you know what, I DON'T GIVE A SHIT!!!! He may be an idealogue on the campaign trail, but he brought back the TRADITIONAL, HISTORICAL IDEAS OF THE DEMOCRATIC PARTY!!! He was the only candidate talking about Peace as a reality - do you know how much hope that brings? He has radically changed my viewpoint of the world and I thank him for that.

[JohnKleeb]

4. seems like it

I am firmly for DK, but if he were to withdraw :(, I would be for Kerry. Serp you brought up that he stands up for veterans issues often, and I do like that too. I can say its definely possible and understandable for a DK supporter to go to Kerry. The war is an important issue for many of us, so that could be why that was suprizing to the poster but to me, the war is a number of the reasons I want change, Kerry on the environment I think is great, I always tell the Kerry supporters with a big fat :) that I envy them for getting Bobby Kennedy Jr. Plus I think Kerry is also against the death penalty, and I know is not a hardline drug warrior. Hard to explain but theres reasons why I would support Kerry.

[La_Serpiente]

5. Sorry

I just thought of more things to add to my post

brb.

But I really do like Kucinich, I really do.

[JohnKleeb]

6. Sorry?

Youre apologizing to the wrong dude. You dont have to. Hell man, I really like Kerry too, info his supporters give me and info I find out on my on makes me like this guy. Dont apologize to me for having the same number 2. I am just solidly for DK, but I like Kerry as my number 2. :hi: apologize to someone else not me.

[redqueen]

7. May I ask why you support WTO / NAFTA?

Do you really think they can be reformed? They're staffed by unelected people and are heavily slanted to favor corporations over people or their governments.

Do you think Kucinich is being dishonest when he says NAFTA can't be amended under the terms of the WTO?

What positive results have come of free trade? We have a huge trade deficit, and millions out of work... the only benefit I can see has been to corporations, whose top executives have certainly benefitted mightily.

[La_Serpiente]

8. I just want to change them

Let us work with what we have. The New President will be able to make trade agreements in his own vision now. Before, Congress was entitled to that privlege.

I just think they are a reality we have to deal with. I also want to incorporate environmental standards and labor standards into the trade agreements.

If you want to talk about it more, either PM me or put it in another thread.

[nomaco-10]

11. Just what I figured.....

another legitimate post challenging the members of this board to discuss the issues and insight into the reason they're voting for their candidate.
I guess everybody is too busy slamming good dems, or then again, I guess the sum of this board are picking their battles more wisely since there is the 24 hour/30 post tombstone dilemma to deal with. Smart on everyone's part.