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Magazine "Black Commentator" Says Dean Makes Racial-Political History

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slinkerwink Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Dec-11-03 09:59 PM
Original message
Magazine "Black Commentator" Says Dean Makes Racial-Political History
Edited on Thu Dec-11-03 10:00 PM by slinkerwink
Howard Dean’s December 7 speech is the most important statement on race in American politics by a mainstream white politician in nearly 40 years. Nothing remotely comparable has been said by anyone who might become or who has been President of the United States since Lyndon Johnson’s June 4, 1965 affirmative action address to the graduating class at Howard University.

For four decades, the primary political project of the Republican Party has been to transform itself into the White Man’s Party. Not only in the Deep South, but also nationally, the GOP seeks to secure a majority popular base for corporate governance through coded appeals to white racism. The success of this GOP project has been the central fact of American politics for two generations – reaching its fullest expression in the Bush presidency. Yet a corporate covenant with both political parties has prohibited the mere mention of America’s core contemporary political reality: the constant, routine mobilization of white voters through the imagery and language of race.

<snip>

Howard Dean has taken history in his hands by hitching his ascendant campaign to a straightforward, anti-corporate message that does not pander to white racism. He presents whites in the South and elsewhere with the only principled choice they should be offered: to vote their interests, or vote for their bosses’ interests (if they are lucky enough to have a job). Although corporate media called Dean’s statement his “southern strategy,” it is in fact the only position that holds out any hope for a national Democratic victory in 2004 – whether enough southern whites emerge from their racist “false consciousness” or not.

The December 7 speech is a clear and definitive break from the lethal grip of the Democratic Leadership Council, the southern-born, corporate-mouthpiece faction of the party. The DLC’s favored presidential candidate is Senator Joe Lieberman, it’s most illustrious personality is Bill Clinton, and it’s most prestigious founding member is none other than – Al Gore. Gore’s endorsement of Dean should be viewed as head-swiveling proof of the bankruptcy of the DLC’s white “swing voter” strategy. The DLC-Emeritus has effectively jumped ship.

<snip>

link: http://www.blackcommentator.com/68/68_cover_dean.html
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slinkerwink Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Dec-11-03 10:00 PM
Response to Original message
1. kick
Edited on Thu Dec-11-03 10:03 PM by slinkerwink
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janx Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Dec-11-03 10:01 PM
Response to Original message
2. Impressive!
And yes, it was a gorgeous speech.
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slinkerwink Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Dec-11-03 10:01 PM
Response to Reply #2
3. they even REPOSTED his speech in full
at the end of the article.
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janx Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Dec-11-03 11:10 PM
Response to Reply #3
49. Dean is at his very best when he makes his speeches.
They are full of history, hope, and passion. He's GOOD, Slink.
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slinkerwink Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Dec-11-03 11:12 PM
Response to Reply #49
50. I know, that's why I signed onto the Dean campaign
;-)
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pruner Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Dec-11-03 10:02 PM
Response to Original message
4. maybe Charles Rangel will endorse Clark again…
Edited on Thu Dec-11-03 10:03 PM by pruner
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slinkerwink Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Dec-11-03 10:04 PM
Response to Reply #4
6. *snickers*
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mmonk Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Dec-11-03 10:05 PM
Response to Reply #4
7. Everything isn't about us.
The post was about your candidate and his speech and a nice reception to it. But we're flattered you think of Clark so much.
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pruner Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Dec-11-03 10:07 PM
Response to Reply #7
10. as I've said many time before…
I like Clark… he's my second my choice.

I just don't like Clarkies or their condescending attitude towards Dean supporters.
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_Jumper_ Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Dec-11-03 10:09 PM
Response to Reply #4
13. Maybe Rangel thinks that Dean is less likely to win than Clark
Edited on Thu Dec-11-03 10:10 PM by _Jumper_
n/t
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coralrf Donating Member (656 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Dec-11-03 10:26 PM
Response to Reply #4
31. Pruner...
can you send us links to 'all these endorsements' or drop the spin? You have put that claim all over this board but have yet to back it up. Rangel often said he supported Clark and would probably endorse him. He then did ONCE!.

What you are doing is classic GOP stuff..but if you can link to 3 endorsements, not supportive statements, Ill admit you are the man. 3 independent endorsements Pruner..can’t be that hard to do...
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w13rd0 Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Dec-11-03 10:03 PM
Response to Original message
5. Considering some of the other statements...
...by blackcommentator, I'd say this is pretty remarkable. Hey, I can't remember the last time I felt this excited to be part of a campaign...part of a movement...
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slinkerwink Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Dec-11-03 10:05 PM
Response to Reply #5
8. I mean, we can't take anything for granted now
it's still hard work all the way.
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SahaleArm Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Dec-12-03 06:32 AM
Response to Reply #5
78. BC's endorsement has mostly to do with Jesse Jackson Jr's
If you don't believe me read BC's progression from Sharpton/Kucinich to Jesse Jackson-Jr's endorsement to what is printed today. Dean did a great job in aligning himself for that endorsement.
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xultar Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Dec-11-03 10:05 PM
Response to Original message
9. Here ya go! from blackcomentator.com
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slinkerwink Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Dec-11-03 10:07 PM
Response to Reply #9
11. so? the Black Commentator clearly likes Dean
and is pleased with him for recognizing the Southern Strategy.
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_Jumper_ Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Dec-11-03 10:12 PM
Response to Reply #11
16. 99% of people have never heard of the Southern Strategy
Certainly "Middle America" has no idea what it is. As a minority I will forever be grateful to Dean for bringing this to the attention of millions of Americans.
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coralrf Donating Member (656 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Dec-11-03 10:30 PM
Response to Reply #16
33. agreed..Dean has a shot here to let America see into its attic
and it may not like what it sees. The 'Southern Strategy' a ghastly manipulation of the white male and hideous rejection of everybody else needs to be hashed over. Let us hope that Dean will go with it.

I must admit, Dean turned that "pick up" thing around. Have not heard much spin on it lately.
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SahaleArm Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Dec-12-03 06:26 AM
Response to Reply #33
77. There's a reason why the spin died and why it will return...
should he win the nomination. The same reason why Ted Koppel asked three of the candidates to quit and the same reason why Al Gore said we should unite behind a certain candidate.
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Eloriel Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Dec-12-03 07:24 PM
Response to Reply #16
89. :-) THANK YOU.
I appreciate your remark because it caught me up short: I've known about it for ages; somehow it never occurred to me the naked truth is that I'm in the minority on that.

I love how Dean calls out their stuff -- names it, clean and true. Gives them nowhere to hide. Confronts the ugly truth. That's the ONLY way to handle bullies and thugs: confront them and speak truth to power.

Thanks again for your remark.

Eloriel
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xultar Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Dec-11-03 10:16 PM
Response to Reply #11
20. They didn't endorse him....They appreciate the fact that he's
Edited on Thu Dec-11-03 10:18 PM by xultar
opening the dialog. Just like I mentioned when he first started the CF bullshit.
But don't be mistaken a speech isn't going to get it done. ACTION is where it counts. That is what I'm waiting to see.

Slinkerwink, I wanna see you at a Black Church passing out flyers,
I wanna see pruner at a community center registering voters,
I wanna see all of you guys in a black neighboor hood rallying the vote.
Dean brought this issue to the front. Now he needs to take action. I haven't seen any action by him or anyone else in the black communtiy.

So don't think a little speech is gonna get the job done. Words don't mean jack when you're not in the trenches.

Kucinich was in the trenches in Detroit. He went to talk to black families. He hasn't made a "speech" on race, he hasn't tried to start a dialog. He just did what needed to be done without the fanfair. He just did what was right without tryingto prove a point.



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SahaleArm Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Dec-12-03 06:16 AM
Response to Reply #20
75. They endorsed Sharpton then switched to Dean after Jesse Jackson Jr. did
Edited on Fri Dec-12-03 06:17 AM by SahaleArm
The magazine's editors endorsed Sharpton and Kucnich prior to Dean getting JJ-Jr's endorsement. The previous article on Sharpton was their excuse to drop him for Dean.

Sharpton/Kucinich: http://www.blackcommentator.com/58/58_cover_dems.html

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Eloriel Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Dec-12-03 07:39 PM
Response to Reply #75
90. Pssst -- it's not an emdorsement
It's an article praising his speech. Get it?
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SahaleArm Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Dec-12-03 07:46 PM
Response to Reply #90
91. Here's the quote and article including the editor's POV
Edited on Fri Dec-12-03 07:47 PM by SahaleArm
Meanwhile, the Service Employees International Union (SEIU) and the American Federation of State, County and Municipal Employees (AFSCME) have endorsed Howard Dean. is pleased that both these large (numbers one and four, respectively) and heavily Black unions are backing the former Governor, the only top-tier candidate who credibly opposed the Iraq war. We were equally impressed with his remarks on pickup trucks and Confederate flags, which we understood as a rare statement by a white politician on the idiocy of delusional white men. How ironic that it took a temporarily delusional Black man to mangle Dean’s words beyond recognition.

http://www.blackcommentator.com/64/64_cover_sharpton.html
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mzmolly Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Dec-11-03 10:10 PM
Response to Reply #9
14. And heres the story on that subject..
http://www.blackcommentator.com/65/65_jackson.html

"If Howard Dean wins the nomination around an economic agenda, and can effectively combat the certain Republican tactic of diversion - using social issues openly, and race more subtly, to sublimate economic concerns - then Democrats may once again be able to win in the South and pursue a progressive economic agenda for the benefit of all Americans."
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slinkerwink Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Dec-11-03 11:28 PM
Response to Reply #14
54. good excerpt
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xultar Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Dec-11-03 11:41 PM
Response to Reply #14
57. I'm very happy that you guys are
Edited on Thu Dec-11-03 11:42 PM by xultar
congtatulating your selves by going on the web and finding something that proves your point that Dean has made the most important speech a white person has m!ade about race in 40 years. You quote a source that most of black america doesnt have access to.
Thats fine. Keep foolin yourselves that you have the answer and based on your view he's the best answer for what ailes Black America.
I'm sure you know because you've done lots of outreach in the black community to know.

Again, I'd like to ask all Black Dean Supporters here @ DU to PM me. Id like to get together on AIM and chat.
Thanks


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Nazgul35 Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Dec-12-03 12:09 AM
Response to Reply #57
58. Funny....
I thought the whole point Dean was making was that we are trying to solve the problems of low and middle income Americans of all races....

But I guess that wouldn't work...stoping the working poor from fighting over the lousy scraps thrown to them by the fat cats that dominate the repug's party and has made inroads into our party over the last 20 years...

Yeah...we can't help African Americans at all, can we?

Maybe the difference is that we think of everyone as human beings who share common problems that can be addressed by this party...but hey, you're right...let's keep fighting along racial lines...that'll solve everything!!!
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SahaleArm Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Dec-12-03 06:21 AM
Response to Reply #58
76. How did Southern Democrats win elections prior to Dean?
Oh, they used Dean's new southern strategy...
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QC Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Dec-12-03 12:13 PM
Response to Reply #76
81. Excellent point.
The old Populist Movement of the late 1800's proposed creating a cross-racial alliance of working people. (In fact, the elites instituted Jim Crow in order to prevent that from happening.)

In more recent years, Southern Democrats have won by building cross-racial coalitions on such issues as workers' rights, education, health care, etc.

It's great that Howard Dean is talking about this, and his speech was truly important. I wish more Democrats would say these things. But Howard Dean did not invent the idea of uniting blacks and whites along class lines.
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DancingBear Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Dec-12-03 09:05 PM
Response to Reply #76
95. Now stop that

Howard Dean invented that strategy.

From his many years of initimate relationships with the black community.

In Vermont.
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qwlauren35 Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Dec-12-03 12:36 PM
Response to Reply #57
85. I Can't.
I don't know how to send an AIM, I can't write you a private e-mail because I don't have enough posts.

But you can write to me at qwlauren35@aol.com.
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Eloriel Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Dec-12-03 08:05 PM
Response to Reply #57
92. xultar!
Good grief!

Is The Black Commentator a white-run and -written publication? I don't know of any white person who made that claim -- it was the article in The Black Commentator that said it.

I rather thought the speech was brilliant (and he writes his own speeches, btw), but the TBC article put it in a perspective historically that certainly made me think more highly of it than I already did.

I'm very happy that you guys are"
congtatulating your selves by going on the web and finding something that proves your point that Dean has made the most important speech a white person has m!ade about race in 40 years. You quote a source that most of black america doesnt have access to.
Thats fine. Keep foolin yourselves that you have the answer and based on your view he's the best answer for what ailes Black America.


Absoutely none of that has been said, implied, or even THOUGHT, to my knowledge, and I'm personally offended by the entire misguided, misinformed statement.

And yes, I quoted a source that most of black America doesn't have access to (in the separate, dupe thread I started) -- does that make iy an invalid source, not worthy or authorized or entitled to speak out as African Americans?

Here's what drives me batty. Dean makes what SOME blacks consider an important and seminal speech; that's not good enough and in fact you find fault with it for some unspoken reason. Dean has spoken repeatedly (every stump speech) on the subject of race and has every intention, drom his very heart, to bring us together, healing the racial divide; but that's not good enough. YOU taunt Deanies about getting out into black neighborhoods -- outreach, you call it -- and yet we white folks (not Deanies, ANY campaigners) are often resented mightily for going into black neighborhoods to ask for votes for candidates.

Aside from the f'ing flag remark (which I presume you were upset about) -- what the hell do YOU want out of Dean? Seems like a case of damned if you do or don't to me. Or is it a case of since you're a Clarkie, nothing Dean can do will matter and WILL be used against him? I suspect the latter.

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jpgpenn Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Dec-11-03 10:08 PM
Response to Original message
12. Amazing...
How this article came out right around the time dean couldn't find enough black folks to back him up in Harlem. LOL speaks for itself. I guess more GOP help huh?
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slinkerwink Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Dec-11-03 10:13 PM
Response to Reply #12
17. wtf?
The magazine "Black Commentator" is one of the most respected minority magazines in this country, and you trash it?
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maddezmom Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Dec-11-03 10:19 PM
Response to Reply #17
23. Andrew Young is a respected person regardless of race
and yet you asked who he was?
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slinkerwink Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Dec-11-03 10:20 PM
Response to Reply #23
24. so, I'm 21
Andrew Young and George McGovern has no real relevance to us.
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coralrf Donating Member (656 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Dec-11-03 10:32 PM
Response to Reply #24
35. How about George Washington...
or Abe Lincoln...both a little older than Young.

If you read what you wrote ..just look at it..you will see how relevant any articulate American is to you.
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slinkerwink Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Dec-11-03 10:58 PM
Response to Reply #35
43. I know my history, but not people like Andrew Young and McGovern
who wasn't covered extensively in my textbooks.
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mitchum Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Dec-11-03 11:06 PM
Response to Reply #24
47. You do know that your response sounded like a parody...
dreamed up by someone like...me, don't you?
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jpgpenn Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Dec-11-03 10:20 PM
Response to Reply #23
25. ummm you are referring to the wrong poster dear.
I never once asked how he was. try to remember what you read please.
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maddezmom Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Dec-11-03 10:23 PM
Response to Reply #25
30. dear...
I directed my post to Slinker and she responded.
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jpgpenn Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Dec-11-03 10:23 PM
Response to Reply #23
29. sorry
I followed the thread wrong. have a good day
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Eloriel Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Dec-12-03 08:56 PM
Response to Reply #23
94. Um, I don't respect him much
Except for his civil rights work way back.

He was a lousy mayor of Atlanta and pretty much a sell-out since.
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quaker bill Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Dec-11-03 10:23 PM
Response to Reply #17
28. They gotta do what they gotta do
It doesn't need to make sense. It just needs to trash Dean.
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mmonk Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Dec-12-03 12:51 AM
Response to Reply #28
63. You need to check the thread
to see who threw the first stone (hint: pruner).
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Very Good Dem Donating Member (99 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Dec-12-03 12:21 PM
Response to Reply #17
83. Where did you hear THAT?
The Black Commentator is certainly not one of the "most respected minority magazines in this country." It hardly even registers a blip in the black community. In fact, it is not even a magazine, just an online blog, that most black folks don't even have access to.

Now, if you're talking Ebony or Jet or Black Enterprise or Savoy or any one of the other established black publications in the country, you might be making some sense. But please don't try to convince people that the Black Commentator is anything more than it is or that any significant number of minorities give it any credence.
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Scott Lee Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Dec-11-03 11:24 PM
Response to Reply #12
52. Your helping Dean more? Thank you again!
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slinkerwink Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Dec-11-03 10:12 PM
Response to Original message
15. kick
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DinkyDem Donating Member (148 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Dec-11-03 10:14 PM
Response to Original message
18. A truely cynical speech
Edited on Thu Dec-11-03 10:16 PM by DinkyDem
that insults the intelligence of the very people it was aimed at.
Who does Howard "Confederate Flag" think he's fooling?

Black Commentator Magazine would do better by praising one of the candidates who actually are black... or have at least met someone who is.
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slinkerwink Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Dec-11-03 10:17 PM
Response to Reply #18
21. don't you think that Black Commentator has some credibility there?
did you even read the entire article? I think not.
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DinkyDem Donating Member (148 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Dec-11-03 10:27 PM
Response to Reply #21
32. I was commenting on
the speech itself... and Howard Dean's lack of credibility.
It strikes me as old out-dated rhetoric that rings hollow and contrived in this century - and unltimately unconvincing, particularly coming from Howard Dean.

Though regarding the article, I believe it marginalized the Reverend Sharpton as a one-dimentional candidate whose only use is to act as a shepherd for a flock of black sheep.
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Jim Sagle Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Dec-11-03 10:44 PM
Response to Reply #18
37. Is that tagline of yours a confession?
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DinkyDem Donating Member (148 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Dec-11-03 10:56 PM
Response to Reply #37
41. No, it's a reference
to Wesley Clark's long relationship with the Republican party (not to mention the military) and Howard Dean's pro-gun anti-medicare NRA-approved platform.

Now don't attack me personally if you lack the intellectual argument to defend your candidate.
My observations were valid.
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Shakespeare Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Dec-11-03 10:58 PM
Response to Reply #18
42. You might want to correct your sig line.
You've fallen into the republican trap of using the grammatically incorrect "democrat" as an adjective.

It should be "democratic."

Please, folks...this one's obnoxious and just plain bad grammar. Don't let the right wing get away with it.
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DinkyDem Donating Member (148 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Dec-11-03 11:05 PM
Response to Reply #42
46. My Representative
is Nancy Pelosi, and she says "Democrat Party", not "Democratic Party". Maybe it's a regional thing.
Now what is obnoxious is not capitalizing the 'D'.

:bounce:
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Shakespeare Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Dec-11-03 11:14 PM
Response to Reply #46
51. It's not a regional thing, it's a grammar thing.
I've never heard Ms. Pelosi get that one wrong, but maybe you've listened to her more than I have. I can tell you for sure that it's not a northern California thing (Pelosi's area).

But hey, go along with Gingrich and company and screw the grammar and say the word in that nasty, unflattering way. Knock yourself out.
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DinkyDem Donating Member (148 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Dec-11-03 11:36 PM
Response to Reply #51
55. Well I've never given it all that much thought
but I gotta say, "democratic" is a process, not a party.
However, on this topic - I hadn't heard it said "Democrat" until fairly recently, and it seems to be the new trendy way of saying it - and it's certainly not only Republicans who are saying it.

I think politicians just got tired of having to say "big D Democratic" or "little D democratic".

Now I think you are a bit to obsessed with the grammar, but then again, you're god damn Shakespeare! ;)

But of course the whole discussion becomes moot when I explain that I was refering to "Democrat clothing" as a noun - a specific thing, not an adjective in the first place. If anything, I should change it to "Democrat's clothing", though that sounded odd.

Chalk it up to poetic license if you must. I wanted to keep both "Republican" and "Democrat" in the same form. I didn't even give it any more thought than that before just now.

But now I know, it's a serious issue to some people!
We all need our core issues to be passionate about, for sure.
Keep up the good fight brother. :D
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Shakespeare Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Dec-12-03 12:44 AM
Response to Reply #55
62. sigh...it's the republicans who started this
You've really never heard about this? About 10-12 years ago, a group of republicans (Gingrich, and Grover Norquist, and a couple of others) put out a list of party talking points on manipulating language to make liberals look bad. One of their favorites is using the (grammatically incorrect) "democrat" as an adjective instead of the correct "democratic." Doing so puts emphasis on the "rat" part of the word, and is generally a dismissive, perjorative way of referring to our revered party.

So, yes, it's a big deal. It's NOT a matter of politicians getting "tired" of saying that extra "ic" at the end of a word. This has been discussed at length on DU, by the way.

And yes, the gramatically correct ways of writing it are "democratic clothing" or "Democrat's clothing."
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DFLforever Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Dec-12-03 01:19 AM
Response to Reply #55
65. Democratic is an adjective, Democrat is a noun
A Democrat is a member of the Democratic Party ...but don't take our word for it here at the Democratic Underground - just look it up in any English dictionary.
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Eloriel Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Dec-12-03 08:22 PM
Response to Reply #55
93. Democratic is an ADJECTIVE
Edited on Fri Dec-12-03 09:14 PM by Eloriel
Democrat is a noun.
I see DFL beat me to it.
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Lisa0825 Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Dec-11-03 10:15 PM
Response to Original message
19. I haven't read that speech yet, but.....
Edited on Thu Dec-11-03 10:16 PM by Lisa0825
I was at the fundraiser in Houston on Nov 18th, and one of the things he elaborated on more than I had heard previously was the definition of institutional racism. Whites get uncomfortable with racism, because we are constantly told we are racist by default, even if we try not to be. In Houston, he really explained it well, that it is more about just being comfortable with people like yourself, and more of a subconscious thing. He took the blame out of it for those who don't ever intentionally try to keep anyone down. I think one problem in the south is that GOOD people here get tired of being lumped in with intentional racists. With his explanation, it was much easier for people to understand how it happens incidentally, and that it doesn't mean someone is necessarily insulting them personally by saying society is racist. I had never heard it explained in such a way that was so non-accusatory yet had such clarity that you could imagine yourself having unintentionally contributed. I think that is one of the biggest problems with talking about racism... people who think it doesn't exist think so because they don't want to be accused of it or accept that they were unwittingly a part of it.
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slinkerwink Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Dec-11-03 10:19 PM
Response to Reply #19
22. that's a great first-hand account!
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SmokeyBlues Donating Member (385 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Dec-11-03 10:39 PM
Response to Reply #19
36. With all due respect...
Many African Americans and a fair number of whites have long tried to explain the distinction between institutional racism versus individual racism in America; however, despite the clarity and sincerity of their presentation, be it written or oral, many other white Americans (in my opinion) simply refused to understand how ingrained institutional racism is in this society. Many whites would become extremely defensive and shout how they treat everybody the same or how they don’t judge people by skin color and so on; while totally overlooking or contemptuously dismissing the everyday benefits and privileges (some more subtle than others) that come with being a member of the favored and dominant group.

Nevertheless, I’m genuinely pleased to hear that Dean was able to bring this very important distinction and reality home for many whites whom, for whatever reasons, were unable to acknowledge it before.
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Lisa0825 Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Dec-11-03 10:59 PM
Response to Reply #36
44. I am sure that many others have defined it before, but.....
I think most whites (myself included) don't read about racism on a regular basis. Sure, there is the occasional article, and there was history or sociology class way back in high school and college, but what do we hear/read on a regular basis? Hearing it again, and on a regular basis is important.

For me, and for the people I spoke to after the speech, it was a moment that affected us. That doesn't minimize what others have said before, but maybe this time it reached people who either hadn't been reached before, or who had just focused on their own lives, and had let it slip beyond their attention.

Every voice counts.

And in my opinion, the way Dean delivered the message resonated better than others I can recall (but I wasn't fortunate enough to experience the speeches of the great activists of the civil rights movement... only recordings, which were incredibly moving. I think it makes a bigger impact to hear someone speak in person about something you feel passionate about)... but everytime that message is presented, someone new hears it. At least that's a little progress.
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SmokeyBlues Donating Member (385 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Dec-12-03 12:39 AM
Response to Reply #44
60. Let me say again
That I'm pleased that Dean's speech provided insight and inspiration for you and others in attendance. It's amazing and encouraging how an often-told message can take on a whole new meaning by simply changing the messenger.

And, yes, repetition is good if the message is positive.

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madfloridian Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Dec-12-03 12:36 AM
Response to Reply #36
59. I think we just did not know. I posted a thread on this the other night.
I had no clue that Nixon and Agnew were as ugly about race as they were. When I read Dean's Southern Strategy speech, I got angry. He explained it clearly and simply. I did not know it went on.
I am ashamed I did not know.

I think he may make a difference with this. I sent it to some friends at meet-up, they are printing it off and sending it around.

Oh, and just remember please that many of us born into the " favored and dominant group", (your quote) accident of birth, may I say, are not as you say. So often it is just being unaware.

An African American parent in one of my classes once accused me of living in my "ivory tower." I almost let it slide, but I called her back to the room. I gave her a rundown on some tragedies in my life, and the hardships I was going through then. She grabbed me and hugged me. Sometimes people need to let down and just talk. She became a dear friend. She always asked me about my ivory tower, how it was doing that day.



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BlueEyedSon Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Dec-11-03 10:21 PM
Response to Original message
26. Thanks, Slink. *kick*
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slinkerwink Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Dec-11-03 10:47 PM
Response to Reply #26
39. no problem!
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durutti Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Dec-11-03 10:23 PM
Response to Original message
27. Dean anti-corporate?
Hahahahahahahahahaha...

Ha.
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quaker bill Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Dec-11-03 10:32 PM
Response to Reply #27
34. Yup
re-regulation....

Can people change? Yup.

Could the experience of Enron, Worldcom, Global Crossing, the Dot.Bombs, and on and on be informative?

Could a modestly alert person have a different opinion of corporate governance after this experience?

Does changing ones view of corporations after this experience indicate some moral weakness?

Life is contextual. Situations change. People in contact with reality change with the times. Tried it?
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Don Claybrook Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Dec-11-03 10:46 PM
Response to Original message
38. You're doing a great job fielding all the anti-Dean hate garbage
Just wanted to say thanks--it's noticed. Keep your back to the wall.

But take heart. As soon as Dean wins the nomination, a 'support-the-candidate' rule will kick in here, and all of these folks will have to SHUT THE HELL UP, or find somewhere else to bitch about Howard Dean.

Thanks,

Don Claybrook
(who doesn't whine about others' candidates)

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slinkerwink Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Dec-11-03 10:47 PM
Response to Reply #38
40. thanks!
:hi:
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Scott Lee Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Dec-11-03 11:27 PM
Response to Reply #38
53. Yeah - Slink's on FIRE
Always rips the hataz. I love it.
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slinkerwink Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Dec-11-03 11:37 PM
Response to Reply #53
56. thanks
:-)
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WhoCountsTheVotes Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Dec-11-03 11:01 PM
Response to Original message
45. most important race statement by a mainstream white politician in 40 yrs
I'm not going to say yes now, but if Dean can pull it off, and actually get guys with conferedate flag stickers on their pickup trucks to vote for him against Bush, than I will gladly eat crow in front of all DU. I wish nothing but success.
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slinkerwink Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Dec-11-03 11:07 PM
Response to Reply #45
48. heh, thanks
I'll be in the kitchen preparing Crow Deluxe Pie for you ;-)
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Cooley Hurd Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Dec-12-03 12:39 AM
Response to Original message
61. Nice catch, Slink!
This should end the silliness about Dean and race issues. Howard Dean is for all Americans!
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slinkerwink Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Dec-12-03 01:37 AM
Response to Reply #61
67. that he is!
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dajabr Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Dec-12-03 01:17 AM
Response to Original message
64. Thanks slink! (nt)
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slinkerwink Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Dec-12-03 01:38 AM
Response to Reply #64
68. no problem!
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Myra Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Dec-12-03 01:25 AM
Response to Original message
66. That's very good for Dean. They also had serious questions about Clark...
That have not been answered to my satisfaction, even though I
am for Clark (right now).

("They" being "Black Commentator.")

Why did he wait so long after finding out about PNAC in 2001,
to report on it in his book in 2003?

I would greatly appreciate genuine discussion and not flames.
This is my biggest reservation about General Clark, and flames
will only end this discussion.

BTW, I did create a thread specifically to discuss this,
but it was ignored.
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slinkerwink Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Dec-12-03 01:47 AM
Response to Reply #66
69. maybe because it wasn't politically expedient to speak out about it?
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SahaleArm Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Dec-12-03 06:05 AM
Response to Reply #69
74. Flip-flop Dean is the King of political convenience
Edited on Fri Dec-12-03 06:18 AM by SahaleArm
Pot meet Kettle
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SahaleArm Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Dec-12-03 06:00 AM
Response to Reply #66
72. Because at the time it was rumor from inside the Pentagon right after 9/11
Edited on Fri Dec-12-03 06:08 AM by SahaleArm
The administration would have painted him right after 9/11 and didn't start going after Iraq till mid-2002. You don't banty about rumors unless you're Howard Dean, in which case you backtrack like hell. PNAC itself has been around since 1997.
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FrenchieCat Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Dec-12-03 01:48 AM
Response to Original message
70. The Black Commentator....
Does not represent anyone but himself. I wrote him a letter about Clark a couple of months ago, and in essense he wasn't interested. He had already fallen in love with Dean. He responded to my letter saying that I was and "illogic". I responded to his response and told him that he could kiss my beautiful soft cafe au lait Ass!
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slinkerwink Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Dec-12-03 03:01 AM
Response to Reply #70
71. the Black Commentator is a MAGAZINE
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SahaleArm Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Dec-12-03 06:01 AM
Response to Reply #71
73. And magazines have writers and editors who reply to letters from readers
Edited on Fri Dec-12-03 06:03 AM by SahaleArm
You do understand that don't you? Letters to the editor ring a bell.
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Very Good Dem Donating Member (99 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Dec-12-03 12:25 PM
Response to Reply #71
84. The Black Commentator is a BLOG, not a magazine
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SahaleArm Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Dec-12-03 05:26 PM
Response to Reply #84
87. No it's a weekly on-line magazine *nm*
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BlueEyedSon Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Dec-12-03 11:16 AM
Response to Original message
79. kick
worth it to read (or re-read) Deans speech....
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slinkerwink Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Dec-12-03 12:11 PM
Response to Reply #79
80. kick
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Very Good Dem Donating Member (99 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Dec-12-03 12:16 PM
Response to Original message
82. Oh, please . . .
Edited on Fri Dec-12-03 12:28 PM by Very Good Dem
From a post in Politics and Campaigns:

"Dean's speech was a good one, but it is hardly "the most important statement on race in American politics by a mainstream white politician in nearly 40 years." Anyone who would make such a claim is either lying outright or is woefully clueless.

"Of course, consider the source - blackcommentator.com is hardly a representative or credible authority on race issues in America. First, it is an obscure internet site that, as far as I can tell, most people have never seen or even heard of (funny, a Google search pulls up mostly hits to the Dean website, where the site is obviously getting a lot of play). I know of not a single black person who reads this outlet. At least, not until a couple of months ago when it started getting a lot more attention as a result of white Republicans continually cite it as a source. For example, it recently provided Republicans a massive amount of ammunition by running a racially offensive political cartoon attacking Janice Rogers Brown - a horrible Bush judicial nominee.

"The cartoon was unnecessarily nasty and played to the worst racial stereotypes and, as such, helped to divert attention away from Brown's record (which, in and of itself, is more than enough to demonstrate she is unqualified to be a federal judge) to questions of her race, which made it all the more difficult to block her nomination. Republicans couldn't get enough of it, even blowing up the cartoon to gargantuan proportions and propping it up in the hearing room and on the floor of the Senate as a visual aid for their harangue against Democrats who, according to them, were attacking poor Justice Brown because she's a black woman. And the response in the civil rights community was universal - "what in the hell is blackcommentator.com?!"

"While those who are unfamiliar with speeches on race in our political history might swoon over Howard Dean's comments, those of us who have been paying attention and actually deal with the issue know that his speech, while good, was hardly groundbreaking or even particularly noteworthy.

"This is, frankly, one of the problems that I have with some of Dean's supporters. Rather than just showing the good your candidate is doing, you try to convince us that he somehow has invented the race dialogue in America, that he is some kind of maverick on the cutting edge of the issue. He isn't. And the belief that he is doing or saying anything new only highlights how out-of-touch the Dean campaign is with the racial issue since no one who is even remotely familiar with race and politics would believe that Dean is a racial prophet.

"For those of you who believe that Dean is doing or saying anything that no white politician has done or said in the last 40 years, I urge you to do a little research before you make this claim again. There is ample material out there, but you can start with such speeches as Bill Bradley's 1991 speech on race and civil rights, John Kerry's speech on race, civil rights and judicial nominations given earlier this year, and just about any speech on race or civil rights given by Jack Kemp, Bill Clinton and Bobby Kennedy. If you take off your "Howard Dean is the second coming" blinders long enough to actually research the topic, you will find that, while Dean's perspective and comments are commendable, he is hardly the first or only white politician talking about this issue with eloquence and insight."
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Eloriel Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Dec-12-03 09:12 PM
Response to Reply #82
96. Let me guess
An Edwards supporter?

This stupid and flat out wrong notion started with him:

Rather than just showing the good your candidate is doing, you try to convince us that he somehow has invented the race dialogue in America, that he is some kind of maverick on the cutting edge of the issue. He isn't.

NO ONE imagines that Dean invented race relations Sheesh. Should he get NO coverage of a sterling speech? Why the hell are his detractors exaggerating in order to make a false point?

Soooo dishonest.
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Very Good Dem Donating Member (99 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Dec-13-03 12:13 AM
Response to Reply #96
97. What is soooo dishonest?
There is a huge difference between covering a good speech and claiming that the speech was "the most important statement on race in American politics by a mainstream white politician in nearly 40 years."

Why the hell are his detractors exaggerating in order to make a false point?

Who is exaggerating? Do you actually believe that Dean's speech was "the most important statement on race in American politics by a mainstream white politician in nearly 40 years?" If your answer is yes, you are either exaggerating or stunningly ignorant. If your answer is no, you must admit that the Black Commentator exaggerated.


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amazing grace Donating Member (23 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Dec-12-03 03:57 PM
Response to Original message
86. Kick
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slinkerwink Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Dec-12-03 05:36 PM
Response to Reply #86
88. thanks and welcome to DU!!!!!
:hi:
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