One thing has stunned me, and I would like thoughts

[frustrated_lefty]

You like Dean, you hate him. Ok, that's cool. He "raises the bat" for democrats who are in danger of losing their office. For those who don't know the term, "raising the bat" means asking your supporters to donate, step up to the plate if you want a change. He has brought up the bat and raised in excess of 50 grand for 2? 3? 4? minor congressmen in tight contests.

The message is: this tide carries all the boats on the sea.

When is the last time we've had a candidate who could divert his own resources towards the future? It's a genuine question, I mean no disrespect.

[toddzilla]

1. who says it's going to generate change.

change from bush warmongering? yes. change in status quo of gov't doing nothing for the interest of it's people? hardly.

[frustrated_lefty]

6. Every person who has lived within his state

says he does what he says he will do. He has a record of doing what he said he'd do. That is so uncommon.

[unfrigginreal]

9. Dean says it

So unless you consider him a liar you've got a candidate to take a look at.

--------

Restoring the American Community

snip

We're going to talk about justice again in this country, and what an America based on justice should look like -- an America with justice in our tax code, justice in our health care system, and justice in our hearts as well as our laws.

We're going to talk about making higher education available to every young person in every neighborhood and community in America, because over 95% of people with a 4-year degree in this country escape poverty.

We're going to talk about rebuilding rural communities and making sure that rural America can share in the promise and prosperity of the rest of America.

We're going to talk about investing in more small businesses instead of subsidizing huge corporations, because small businesses create 7 out of every 10 jobs in this country and they don't move their jobs overseas -- and they can help revitalize troubled communities. We're going to make it easier for everyone to get a small business loan wherever they live and whatever the color of their skin.

We're going to talk about rebuilding our schools and our roads and our public spaces, empowering people to take pride in their neighborhood and their community again.

We're going to talk about building prosperity that's based on more than spending beyond our means, a prosperity that doesn't force us to choose between working long hours and raising our children, a prosperity that doesn't require a mountain of debt to sustain it, a prosperity that lifts up every one of us and not just those at the very top.

The politics of race and the politics of fear will be answered with the promise of community and a message of hope.

And that's how we're going to win in 2004.

http://blog.deanforamerica.com/archives/002565.html

[Name removed]

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[Rose Siding]

3. I've never seen it before

Another board had a post about how the DNC isn't worrying about Dean losing 49 states- they're worried about him returning their calls.

[cryofan]

20. Is this just more "dean is an outsider" propaganda?

THe problem is that the DNC and DLC love Dean, I am sure. He has a record as a centrist, and he says that is what he is.

So, you see that this claim of the DNC worried about him not being close to "THe Establishment" could be a product of a collusion between Dean and "THe Establishment". Certainly there is motive.....

All I know is that after 46 years reading and learning (OK, well at least 46 years of learning), I have learned that whenever I see that "THe Establishment" has a defined political goal, I always should always regard that goal with suspicion, as their political interests are usually counter to the political interests of everyone except those with power and lots of money.

I now see the Democratic Establishment and the Media Establishment falling all over themselves about Dean. THerefore I am suspicious about Dean and will not support him in any way unless I have very good evidence otherwise.

Whatever THEY want, I should want the opposite. Their monied interests usually run counter to my own. If they ignore or denigrate a politician or an idea, I feel I should investigate and fully consider that idea or politician, for I know that that politician or that idea has a good chance of furthering my own interests.

[Ellen Forradalom]

5. It's all part of him putting together his political organization

which is what he needs to do. Nothin' wrong with that.

[mikehiggins]

7. What "change for the future" does returning incumbents to office

constitute? I'm all in favor of keeping Democrat incumbents in office but mostly because I don't want to see even more Bush fanatics in control.

Are these guys "better" because they're democrats? Hell, Zell Miller is a "democrat".

Politics is not a pretty way to make a living, lefty, and just because a guy has a label, that doesn't mean he's a good guy.

I know one congressman quite well who is blatently in the pockets of asian business interests. He's a democrat and you've seen him on tv quite a lot. Would I lose any sleep if he lost? If he was replaced by a junior Tom Delay, sure. Otherwise, what difference does it make? He takes contributions from folks who are getting our jobs shipped to their country. Raise a bat for him?

Helping these guys out is good politics for Dean but don't delude yourself. It's still politics.

[frustrated_lefty]

13. Well, if I were you, I would ask who is Dean helping?

It ain't Zell Miller, that much is clear.

[JNelson6563]

19. Here's the difference

Dean is working to keep incumbent Dems in office and, I'd wager, will work to increase Dem seats as well.

This seems to have been beyond our Dem leadership in recent elections. Perhaps this is what causes your confusion and renders you incapable of seeing the advantage of a presidential candidate who can help us win back a majority in Congress.

Hope this helps.

Julie

[RainDog]

10. such typical, easily regurgitated replies

to what this poster has to say...

how do any of us on this board know what will happen, no matter who is elected?

Yes, we can look at past actions, but please recall that Bush was touted in the press as a moderate governor...according to Texas, at least.

Which candidate running has no contradictions in his or her political resume?

What politician does not seek financing for campaigns and form coalitions to help elect other candidates??? If that bothers you, maybe you need to check the oil in the reality engine.

I'm honestly at a loss to understand the perceived value for people on this forum who cannot find anything substantive to say and so simply find something negative to say, no matter what. That goes for people supporting all sorts of candidates.

I spend less and less time in GD, just because it gets boring to hear people argue like they're on the playground.

[Lexingtonian]

11. well

It was a gesture designed to impress people like you. And it was an easy (and very cheap) way to buy off an Iowa Congressman- maybe not to buy his endorsement, but enough to prevent him from endorsing some other candidate. Clue: an actual competitive campaign for a House district requires half a million as a minimum.

I would be impressed if Dean did fundraising for Stephanie Herseth or Ben Chandler or Gary King Jr. or Henry Cuellar, or if he got someone significant to run for the New Hampshire House district abutting Vermont (it went plurality for Gore but the Republican holding the seat has had for ten years or so).

But no, that's not how the Dean campaign actually works. As you know, people want a reputation for generosity, but they want to get it as cheaply as possible.

Btw, with all the establishment types now piling onto the Dean bandwagon, you're not going to be hearing the words 'revolution' and 'Dean' in the same sentence anymore. Even 'renewal' is going to get pretty rare.

[virtualobserver]

14. if Dean restored a missing limb.....

he would be attacked for harming the prosthetic industry.

[frustrated_lefty]

15. Ok, I'll bite

Who exactly are "people like you?"

I find it amazing you can be critical of a man not yet even in the primaries, addressing 8 other candidates for just the nomination. The man doesn't even have the nomination, and still you want to slam him because his supporters are "people like me?" AND he supports fellow democrats?

Enlighten us, exactly whose campaign have you assisted, and how have you spent 50 grand improving the party?

[Lexingtonian]

17. you must be kidding.

Who exactly are "people like you?"

You will perchance notice there are a number of Dean people around here including some who have posted endless amounts of Dean drivel via obvious sock puppet aliases. I have personally been told on this board by such people that Howard Dean singlehandedly has driven down Bush's approval rating, that he hasn't changed his story about supporting the Iraq war (see Josh Marshall's posting at http://www.talkingpointsmemo.com for the flip flop/hypocrisy documented in the public record), that his record in Vermont was a liberal's dream, that he's a real doctor (when did that license lapse, what would it take to get it again, and what were his internal ratings?), that he got elected in Vermont on his own record and was regarded as outstanding (not evident at the time), and that's just a start of the propaganda/Coueism.

I find it amazing you can be critical of a man not yet even in the primaries, addressing 8 other candidates for just the nomination. The man doesn't even have the nomination, and still you want to slam him because his supporters are "people like me?" AND he supports fellow democrats?

Are you denying that the $50k to Boswell was a payoff?

Enlighten us, exactly whose campaign have you assisted, and how have you spent 50 grand improving the party?

I'll have to decline on handing you material to derail the focus of this discussion and engage in ad hominems on other candidates. I'd like to stick with Howard Dean's use of money to buy other Democrats' goodwill.

My money has gone to individual candidates, including some of those mentioned, in $1k chunks once I have convinced myself of who they are and what they represent. (Integrity and adept understanding of the present national situation are personal sticking points, ones I don't feel Dean meets.) I have offered substantially larger contributions than that to the DNC if they would spend it on reorganizing and revitalizing the Democratic state party apparatus in Florida. (I was unsatisfied by the reply I got and have- of course- not sent them that kind of money.)

[WillyBrandt]

12. It's amazing

Smart politics, a good thing to do. Qualms about his candidacy at a national level, but if all Dems ran campaigns like his we'd be unstoppable.

In fact, it's two ways. Unless we start running Deanish campaigns, we're done. If we start running Deanish campaigns, we win left and right.

[dfong63]

18. Dean put his money where his mouth is

supporting fellow dems. bravo!

[blm]

21. Pols have been helping other pols in need for decades.

They raise money and donate themselves or share their excess campaign funds.

Because Dean is using the internet in this way, hardly means he started something new. He wants congressional candidates not to fear him. But internal DNC polls show Dean at the top of the ticket hurts the more vulnerable congressmen in the competitive districts. Why do you think many in the DNC are worried about it?

[Hep]

23. I don't feel as though

marginalizing what the Dean campaign has accomplished and subesequenbtly offered to ANY D running for office is a very civil thing to do.

[Hep]

22. This is only the beginning

ALL Democrats in contested races are URGED to go to Burlington VT and discuss with the Dean campaign how they can use the Dean campaign model and resources to help them run their campaigns. The Dean people will sit down with ANY candidate and talk about the web, the concentric circle campaign model, and grassroots organizing.

WHo else is offering that?