Bush’s Coming Betrayal of the Evangelicals

[JewelDigger]

http://www.lewrockwell.com/manion/manion47.html

<snip>

Ever since the invasion of Iraq, Karl Rove has been traveling the country mobilizing the evangelical vote for the 2004 elections. In city after city, he is meeting with evangelical leaders. He begs: "in 2000, only 16 million of you voted. We need the other four million."

Rove has coupled these overtures to evangelicals with similar meetings with the Jewish community (in Cincinatti, he left the evangelical meeting to join the representatives of Jewish organizations one floor up in the same hotel). In both meetings, Rove stresses the importance of President Bush’s invasion of Iraq and his support of Israel. But only with the evangelicals does he stress the president’s unwavering support for the moral issues that are their priorities – abortion, pornography, judges, and (most important) the Marriage Amendment.

<snip>

Well, the neocons got their war, with the fervent support of the evangelicals. Now the evangelicals want the country to address their priorities. What about the filibustered federal judges? What about the Marriage Amendment? Will the neocons, in gratitude for the indispensable support of the evangelicals for the war, return the favor and support the conservative moral agenda?

Don’t hold your breath.

Quite the contrary, in fact. The last fortnight has witnessed the emergence of a long-planned neocon assault on any and all efforts to put legal protections of traditional marriage on the books. Day after day, neocons have mounted a concerted barrage across Bush’s bow. Safire, Brooks, Sullivan, and virtually everyone at National Review and the Wall Street Journal have sent Bush and Rove a counter-intuitive message: the Marriage Amendment will divide not the Democrats, but the "Republicans" (in other words, the neocons would jump ship).

<snip>

[fishguy]

1. Weren't most evangelical Christian denominations opposed to the Iraq war?

Aren't issues of war and peace THE most important issues facing man?
The Bush Cabal is such an amoral group. The indiscriminate use of religion depending on the issue and audience is absolutely Repu(blican)gnant.

[Lars39]

2. Southern Baptists are FOR the war.

[Bill McBlueState]

3. welcome!

Welcome to DU, fishguy! :toast:

All I know is that the Southern Baptist Convention was in favor of the war. I'm not so sure they count as evangelical, though; they're more in the fundamentalist camp.

Do you know of evangelical denominations that opposed the war? My somewhat limited experience with those types (Campus Crusade for Christ, for example) was that they seemed willfully uninformed about anything political.

[zanana]

15. Evangelical/Fundamentalist; What's the difference?

Not being a religious person myself, I don't keep up with things like this. I'm interested for political reasons, though. I thought all right-wing religions were the same. What's the diff?

[Hamlette]

19. evangelical vs fundamentalist

I've never met a fundamentalist who wasn't conservative and evangelical. I've met liberal evangelicals who are not fundamentalist.

Evangelical means you believe you must preach and convert others to Jesus.

Fundamentalist means you believe the bible in a literal sense.

I LOVE this split in the GOP. Shades of 1992. Bush can't be a compassionate conserative war monger hater of gays. Too many hats. His coalition of the fringes will fall apart.

[IrateCitizen]

4. No. The Religious Right was highly supportive of the invasion.

It was the mainstream and liberal denominations (through the National Council of Churches) that denounced it.

But I agree, Bush's use of religious overtones in promoting the kinds of policies that Christ would denounce him for if he were to come back today is sickening.

BTW -- welcome to DU! :bounce:

[soup]

5. welcome to DU, fishguy

:hi:

Bishop in Bush's Church in New Antiwar Ad

By Alan Cooperman
Washington Post Staff Writer
Friday, January 31, 2003; Page A18

The National Council of Churches will begin airing a television commercial today in which a bishop of the United Methodist Church, President Bush's denomination, says going to war against Iraq "violates God's law and the teachings of Jesus Christ."

The 30-second ad, scheduled to appear several times a day over the next week on the CNN and Fox cable networks in New York and Washington, is part of an accelerating television, radio and print media campaign by Win Without War, a coalition of organizations opposed to invading Iraq.

The choice of a Methodist bishop as a spokesman is intended to emphasize the opposition to war from America's mainstream churches and to convey that the peace movement is middle-of-the-road and patriotic, according to Win Without War's national director, former representative Tom Andrews (D-Maine).

Some national TV networks and local stations have rejected the antiwar coalition's efforts to buy advertising time, citing the controversial content of its ads.
http://www.ccmep.org/2003_articles/Iraq/013103bishop.htm

[fishguy]

7. Evangelical can cover a broad spectrum of Protestant denominations

Usually, Southern Baptists are not considered Evangelicals, but it depends on one's definition and the particular sect and/or church.
Does anyone know if the SBC was included in this meeting?

[Lars39]

10. Sorry, Southern Baptists ARE evangelicals.

Some Southern Baptist congregations might also be American Baptist, but most are pure SB.

[fishguy]

13. SBC and ABC are different

Split in 1840s over the issue of slavery.

[Tinoire]

11. The majority of Evangelicals backed and still back this war

It was mostly the mainstream religious that don't buy into milleniallism and read the bible as a whole as opposed to picking out a few cherry verses that opposed it.

There were 40 Evangelical leaders who denounced and opposed him but the rest are lock, stock and barrel behind him because Babylon had to be disarmed...

If this is true, I would be surprised but very, very happy. I'm not sure I agree yet; there are at least 50 million of them and I've been keeping track of their brain-washing propaganda... It hasn't let up and it's mighty, mighty powerful. They are convinced that if they MUST support this lest the wrath of God fall on them and America.

The Left Behind series is still an important part of this brain-washing and still too popular to think otherwise. 6 months ago, two hard-right Israeli ministers were meeting, here, with the heads of the Evangelicals to cement the support even further and the Evangelical preachers haven't let down.

I would love to read other DUers persective on this because if these people abandon Bush, he will lose. If these people abandon Bush, they might possibly consider a Dem who isn't too in your face about abortion and gay marriage because they consider those EXTREMELY important issues... They are convinced that that is the evil they have to fight lest we be destroyed like Sodom and Gomorrah
and then of course, there can be nothing but unequivocal support for Israel's hard right so that Israel's borders go from the Tigris to the Euphrates. I'm not sure we could ever work with the Bush-voting Evangelicals until they're de-programmed.

[janx]

17. I don't think they're going to abandon Bush.

Sadly, the evangelical types have latched onto him, and no matter what he does, they'll still cling.

This "rapture" business concerning warring in the ME is the icing on the cake to them.

The neocons will continue to use them.

[cosmicdot]

16. the United Church of Christ and the Methodists were

UCC had a petition on its website

I'm sure the Methodists were because it contrasted from the one who adopted 'the Methodists as his chosen church.

of course, Rove is after the Pat Robertson-Jerry Falwell-John Ashcroft-Rapture obsessed crowd ... which is an entirely different thing from e.g., Protestant churches

[newyawker99]

23. Hi fishguy!!

Welcome to DU!! :toast:

[WhoCountsTheVotes]

6. Immigration is about to split the GOP alliance too

The corporations and wealthy people at the core of the GOP want increased immigration, and in fact Ridge just called to legalize most undocumented aliens. A few Republicans out west and the rank and file are screaming bloody murder.

Come on, Buchanan, you have work to do! :bounce:

[fishguy]

9. The Religious Right are not necessarily the Churches

The Religious Right are not really the Churches or denominations, they are religious organizations. Maybe with the exception of the SBC.
A denomination and religious organization are two different things.

For instance, I belong to Network Lobby, a Catholic Social and Economic Justice lobbying organization. It bases its stances on the Catholic view of Catholic social justice.
The website is www.networklobby.org

Network is definitely part the Religious Left.

[truthspeaker]

14. they are churches, just not the ones you go to

Church of Christ
Southern Baptists
Assemblies of God
Pentacostals
"non-denominational" churches

I'm pretty sure all of the above supported the Iraq War. They call themselves evangelical, so their critics often use the term to describe them. Unfortunately (I've learned recently) this tends to alienate non-fundy Christians who also call themselves evangelical. That's part of their plan. The extremists want moderate and liberal Christians to leap to their defense whenever the extremists are criticized. Sometimes it works. I am amazed at how many Christians in America are unaware of the very large, very powerful, extremely fundamentalist groups in this country also calling themselves Christians.

I'm trying to remember to use the terms fundamentalist, extremist, or (my new favorite) Pharisees to describe these whackos instead of evangelical. Rest assured, when I attack extremist Christians I do NOT mean all American Christians, just the bigoted nutjobs.

[GreenPartyVoter]

8. potential GOP splitters

civil rights issues, separation of church and state, fiscal responsibility

As a venn diagram you will find an overlap between libertarians and evangelical christians, but only a few will be in tht overlap. Most right-wing Christians are severaly rightwing authoritarian types.

So bush has to figure out who he wants to appeal to more..whose vote he wants to capture.

And whether or not he still appeals to the "moderate" voter? Who knows? I guess the ones who are still feeling terrified and support the war on terra will back him, if only for that reason.

[WhoCountsTheVotes]

12. "neocons have always appreciated the duplicitous Maoist dialectic"

this is interesting:

The neocons have always appreciated the duplicitous Maoist dialectic. Working both sides of the fence, and speaking out of both sides of their mouths, comes as second nature to them. So, sometime after 9-11, and before the Iraq invasion, we can assume that they went to their fellow Democrats and laid out their case along these lines:

"We’re surprised at the sudden prominence we have acquired in this administration, but we’re going to use it for all it’s worth. We would like to have your support on our key issues, and, in return, you will have ours, because, after all, we agree on them – we always have.

"But you need to understand something. You will begin to see us in an alliance with evangelical Christians, the "Religious Right," the bane of your existence. Do not fear. We are using them, on a single-issue basis, for one goal only – to achieve our designs for the Middle East. We know their theology is laughable, but it is also useful. Don’t worry, we will not reciprocate when they begin asking us for our support on "moral" issues. We promise you that. In fact, we will make sure they fail on those issues.

"Remember: for us, President Bush is a means, not an end. You and we agree on the same ends. And we will make sure that the evangelicals don’t frustrate those ends. And neither will Bush."

[David__77]

20. More like Trotskyite, not Maoist.

I think that's actually unfair to the Maoists. This is not a dialectical thing at all, though it is duplicitous. The "double-speak" is actually wanton deception, in the tradition of Leo Strauss. Leon Trotsky, the intellectual godfather of the first generation neo-cons, thought that workers must literally be "conned" into fighting for revolution while only the elite petty bourgeois intellectuals were aware of the true aim of the movement.

[WhoCountsTheVotes]

25. I think they meant "Hegelian dialectic"

as in the thesis/synthesis/sythensis approach. I've heard this idea floating around the right-wing for years (never actually read any Hegel myself). Basically playing opposites against each other, and working the end result for yourself.

[rucky]

21. Interesting theory...makes sense

Explains the Democratic * enablers.
Explains the favorable SCOTUS rulings.
Explains the RR's "adopt a Jew" program (speaking figuratively, of course)

Fanatics always work under an "end justifies the means" framework.

[David__77]

18. Neo-cons are not conservatives in real sense.

Neo-cons are "former" socialists of a most perverted type who are bent on an American version of "exporting revolution"--ours being ostensibly democratic rather than socialist. They have no concern with homosexuality or even abortion, or any such thing. Their aim is to solidify a social base for imperialism, that's all--and that includes good imperialist gays like Andrew Sullivan and any pro-choice neo-cons as well.

[NoKingGeorge]

22. neoCon party versus the rePub party.

So the neoCon party has the support of the funDies with the revelations and all .The rePub party has the support of the evanGelicals who want the money and power that accrues with coporate
alignment. I expect kArl will have to go after the evanGelicals because as everyone in the mob knows ,wars are bad for business.The big boys will only take so much whining from the cOrporations before they reign in the captains and soldiers of the neofamily.

[bobbieinok]

24. the religious right voters are the foot soldiers in the corporations'war

Even if there's some back off from religious right goals, where will they go??? They KNOW the democratic party is 'rabidly anti-christian.'

The republicans HAVE to get all the religious right to vote. They're ready for Dean with a major 'homosexual agenda' rant going on and gearing up for the election.

PLEASE NOTE: I like Kucinich, Dean, and Clark. From my years growing up as a southern baptist in OK, going to college in TX, and back living in OK since 89 --- the only one of these 3 who MIGHT have a chance in the states where the religious right is strong is Clark. That's MY opinion based on MY experiences.