Could someone please explain to me why all the flared tempers

[CatWoman]

over whose candidate is best?

I really don't understand it. Truly I don't.

I wonder if any of you plan to vote for the person who becomes our nominee, whether it is your choice or not?

While Democrats are ripping each other to shreds, the Bush administration continues to spread its greed, death and destruction throughout the world.

And the press has returned to their "Al Gore Invented the Internet" line.

Has anyone checked the Daily Howler out lately?

http://www.dailyhowler.com/dh121103.shtml

[soleft]

1. I can only imagine these are not the most emotionally stable people

to begin with.

[CatWoman]

2. I just don't get it

We should be attacking Bush, not potential nominees.

[soleft]

4. I also think however that the candidates are setting the tone

If they could present their case to the people without having to tear each other down, maybe we supporters would be inspired to do the same.

[htuttle]

7. Bingo

At least that's how many of those posts come off.

[CatWoman]

8. At first I attributed it to the full moon

but in reality it's just like the Dem/Green arguments of old.

[info being]

25. Without all these posts about "tone" and "how people come off"

This place would be A LOT more interesting and tolerable.

[dreissig]

3. I Get Impatient

I get impatient with DU'ers that attack Al Sharpton when it's obvious they know nothing about him. He's a favorite target of the right wing press, which never says anything good about him. Some DU'ers clearly get all their information about Sharpton from the right wing press. It galls me.

[CatWoman]

5. I like Al Sharpton too

but let's be honest -- he has zero chance of becoming the nominee.

[Hep]

6. What about people

who criticise him AND know him?

[diamondsoul]

19. I like Al, a LOT-

Even so, I think there are a couple of thngs he probably should do to help his credibility with some people (myself not included).

I don't fault him for the Tawana thing because, as a rape victim with no proof, we need people to stand up and say "Prove the guy didn't rape her!" a lot more often. Once he knew the charges were false, though, he should have said "I will ALWAYS believe the rape victim before the accused. Afterwards I'll admit my mistake, but her word comes above all else when she claims to have been so brutally violated.". That would have been understood by many of us.

Al Sharpton is a good hearted man, imo. I think he does a lot of good. I do not think he'd make a good President because his focus is too narrow, in MY opinion, or at least that's how he strikes me. I still like him and I'll support his remaining in the race to the end even if I don't support him as a President.

[calimary]

9. Y'know, CatWoman, I'm getting a little tired of it, too.

I'm starting to wonder if some are really bush moles.

Sometimes I get really frustrated and want to reply "Hmmm, so HOW badly DO you want to see bush triumph, 'eh?"

I'm trying to remain patient with those who simply MUST continue to chop Dean, when - excuse me, I AM sorry, but it looks more and more to me like the handwriting's on the wall for the other hopefuls, and Howard Dean is gonna be the guy. I could certainly be wrong. No fat ladies have sung yet. No primaries have been held yet. No votes have actually been cast. And, AGAIN, let me clarify - AND verify - that I WILL SUPPORT WHOMEVER is our nominee. WHOMEVER OR WHOEVER. Yes, that means even Lieberman.

But LOOK, guys, everybody who's on and on and on and on about how Dean is this and Dean is that and Dean did this and Dean said that and he's not electable and this won't work and that won't work - JUST HOW ARDENTLY ARE YOU TRYING TO FEED THE REPUBLI-CON JUGGERNAUT, 'EH??????? Just HOW BADLY do you want to enable another win by the bad guys? If you keep saying so, you're gonna MAKE IT SO!

PLEASE, PEOPLE!!! Start getting with the program!!! We HAVE TO END THIS ANIMOSITY NOW!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! AND GET WITH - WELL, OKAY THEN, DEAN!

We have to be - ALL OF US - shoulder to shoulder AGAINST THE BUSHIES!!!!!

Don't you guys get it? Doesn't anybody get it? The time to snivel about who's better and who isn't gaining momentum but deserves to - IS OVER!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

Sorry to be yelling, but I'm starting to get upset about this!!!

Not to mentioned worried that all this naysaying is only going to make it come true.

[CatWoman]

10. Thanks, Calimary

And as I have stated above, while we are throwing snow and mud balls at each other, the press has resumed it's attacks on Al Gore.

To me, these renewed attacks are just a preview of whats to come -- so the Dem nominee will need our support all the more.

[RandomKoolzip]

11. Hear, hear.

You kno, people, you are NEVER going to get the ideal candidate. You will ALWAYS have to accept faults in someone. You may feel that Dean is some sort of lying sack of shit who flip flops (whatever) and is "like a used car salesman" (saw taht on another thread, utter bullshit.) but fer crissakes, people, He's the front runner against BUSH! Rememeber Bush? That putz squatter in the big chair? Right no, if given a choice between Dean and four more years of Bush, would you really choose Bush (or go third party; same thing as voting for Bush)?? I think we all better steel ourselves for the big fight against the real enemy, not continue to squabble like tots over our prospective acres of the sandbox.

[info being]

22. Give it a rest

Allow yourself to embrace uncertainty and ambiguity. It leads to intellectual growth.

[Union Thug]

34. Is the time over or the target wrong?

Until the primaries, I'm not sure that we should say that anything is over, but I do agree that attacking the person is dead wrong and political suicide for the dems. If they were capable of addressing the issues without attacking the man or woman, the dems would look a whole lot stronger when we finally do come to a decision on who will face the unelected shaved chimp in November.

I'm a huge Kucinich supporter, but if Dean gets the nomination, so be it.. I'll back him up.

[Q]

12. Democrats using RWing lies to smear Democrats?

- They're either very petty...or RWingers disguised as Democrats.

- We need to be aware that the tactics used in 2000 to smear Gore and the Democratic party are in play again for 2004. They would rather have us talking about anything other than the most corrupt WH in US history.

[AnnabelLee]

13. I agree

I don't understand it; at first it seemed like genuine passionate debate, but as the days until the primaries go by, it seems to have taken on more of a flavor of "OK, you said something bad about my candidate, I'm gonna post something bad about yours".

The enemy does not have a "D" after his/her name, & baiting & one-up-man-ship on DU accomplishes nothing positive toward getting the usurper out of the White House, & his filthy, criminal hands (& those of his partners in crime) off of our government.

At times it makes me angry, although lately it is only making me sad.:-(

[theboss]

14. It's a Primary

Welcome to the Funhouse.

[DeepModem Mom]

15. In the spirit of the season, I've been trying to understand...

and develop a forgiving attitude. I think we all are so fearful of what will happen to our country under four more years of Bush, that we are all fighting with a degree of desperation for the candidate each of us thinks has the best chance of defeating him. Some of us go too far; our infighting does not help our cause. But I'm thankful for all here at DU -- thoughtful people, who care deeply about what we should be as a country -- who are sincerely working toward the day the "better angels of our nature" will again prevail.

[MIMStigator]

16. We want a winner

we hate * period. Flared tempers come from trying to prevent a weak candidate from winning nom.

[RBHam]

17. It's Bush's fault

People are so desperate to see this man booted out of office, and they're so convinced that only THEIR candidate can do it, that the passion boils over.

It's a good thing. It means that there's an energized base.

[info being]

18. I'm tired of all the people expressing ideas like this

- Concerned about the "tone" of everybody else...as though you were in a position to judge.

- Worrying about whether we'll all back the eventual nominee. Right now it is the season to debate, to shape the Party's values...not to all agree. By next November we'll be in a different state of mind. Its the process.

Is it so impossible to understand that the majority of Progressives are actually WAY BEYOND simply expressing outrange about Bush? These days we are more concerned with actually building a vision for the future...of defining the alternative...of pushing things forward. I know it isn't as simple or comfortable as ranting about Bush, but the American public wants a LEADER. Leaders have vision, ideas, and strong leadership. They don't whine or express outrange.

Can't you see the fact that all of our candidates are growing with each debate? Can't you see that the Democratic Party is being reborn before our very eyes? That is the story...not how many times we complain about our transparent pResident.

[theboss]

20. Well said

[diamondsoul]

24. DING DING DING! We have a winner!

In the spirit of the season have a whole tin of butter cookies! (ok if you're vegan I don't know what would be comparable, but have something yummy on me.)

[Shakespeare]

26. there's spirited debate (which is good), and then there's...

...vicious, nasty, malicious, ugly, vitriolic, hateful garbage that's being spewed by a few people in a few camps. I think that's what CatWoman is talking about, and there is a difference.

[info being]

29. I don't know who you're talking about...

I haven't seen that on DU. Why don't you address those incidents...those people...directly instead of allowing this sort of toxic waste to spill into entirely new threads.

[CatWoman]

32. How can you see anything behind that giant flame thrower of yours?

[Shakespeare]

36. You haven't seen that? Really?

Okay. :eyes:

[drdigi420]

21. I dont get it either

Although I know that Kucinich would be the absolute, hands down, no question best man for the job, I understand the reality that this country is not ready for that progressive of a candidate yet. I think Dean is going to win, but I will support anyone that runs against Bush.

Im an independant, not a Democrat, not a Green, certainly not a Republikkkan. I would become a Democrat if the party would moderate the stance on guns and get fully behind ending the drug war and replacing it with legalized, taxed, inspected, regulated markets.

Most of my politics lie between libertarian and democrat, although I can't support the total free-market ideas of some libertarians, and I can't accept a handgun version of the drug war that would give criminals the sole monopoly on the gun trade.

But I DO know that Bush is the worst thing to happen to this country since, well, ever and I will support whoever is running as a Democrat.

I just fear that the dem candidates are giving Karl Rove too much ammo by going negative against each other.

[info being]

23. Why the need to decide the country isn't ready?

Why not do your best to support who you believe in? If the rest of the country doesn't agree, so be it. Why so many worries about who is going to win?

Why don't we just focus on the part we can actually control: what we believe, who we support, how we represent our opinions to others, and who we ultimately vote for.

To fixate on things beyond your control (who the nominee will eventually be...how unfair ABC is) isn't healthy.

[PurityOfEssence]

27. THEY STARTED IT! THEY STARTED IT! THEY STARTED IT!

Which is probably the only thing on which all sides can agree.

(It's a peak moment in time; this is the feature attraction of party politics, and it only happens every four years. We've never had one of these on the board, so it's inevitable.)

It'll all be fine, but it'll be pretty wild for a while.

[Zomby Woof]

28. not you too!

Another of what I call a "Rodney King Thread"! "Can't we all just get along?" :D

You know I love you like my sister, but some of us thrive on the scrapping that comes with politics, and abhor the enforced unity being pushed on some of us just because we have serious qualms about a candidate. Democracy is messy and politics is fun. :party:

If we were all bland and lovey-dovey, nothing would get aired, differences would remain unexamined, and the party would be cast adrift, or continue to devolve into GOP-lite. I know YOU don't want that, and you also know we don't have to settle for mediocrity. I HATE mediocrity! Blandness is for those other guys.

Plenty of time to fight now, and beat Bush later. I wish people would understand we are complex creatures capable of meeting several objectives at once, or in succession. I multitask better than Windows XP! :P

:smoke: Peace, Little Sister! :loveya:

[info being]

30. Exactly!

I swear half the people here want:

- Politics without debate
- Democracy without freedom of speech
- To love humanity without liking people

A discussion forum is a free exchange of ideas. It is messy, even personal sometimes. If you want something black and white and warm and fuzzy go to church.

[CatWoman]

31. Well, you just prove my point

my connection was down for the past hour. Good thing, too.

I see you came out flame thrower first.

I'm not about to waste my time with you.

No one is asking for warm and fuzzy.

No one is advocating a non-spirted debate.

No one is advocating preventing you from freedom of speech. Heaven forbid :wow:

I'm advocating common sense.

I'm advocating concentrating all of our anger on the person that is the origin of that anger.

[Zomby Woof]

35. hehe

I have enough anger and fight in me for everyone (except maybe Dean, hard to beat him!) :evilgrin: Besides, when I have ever been shy about a good scrap? ;-)

(I know you were addressing someone else, but I am just trying to make you laugh dammit!)

Come, we swim with Opi and the dolphins!

[CatWoman]

38. You ALWAYS make me laugh!!!

especially when you put in your green-grey contacts :D

[Zomby Woof]

43. my father loved me best!

Except when he tried making me eat Green eggs and ham! x(

(btw, I also make sure to ZombyKick ALL of the good threads, whenever I see one)

[CatWoman]

37. It's not about the "getting along" Z

my concern is that we are so busy beating up on each other, we are not paying attention to the shenanigans of the Thief in Chief and the enabling media.

How many good stories have sunk into obscurity in this very forum because people ignored them because they were too busy fighting over whose hair looked better, or who took pictures with how many blacks?

[Zomby Woof]

42. that's where my multi-tasking argument comes in

I think those of us who care enough, do follow those stories and do what we can about them. Yesterday, I took enough time out from annoying people to urge everyone to pester their congresspeople and senators about the Halliburton rip-offs. I also tried getting a discussion going on just WHY Bush gets away with wearing Teflon - that yielded some good replies, allowed us to vent about Bush, and re-focus our energy on him. But my Halliburton thread sank. 1 out of 2 threads not sinking is pretty good for GD these days, when attempting serious discussion. :-)

I do observe one rule - I may take on Dean and a few other candidates, but I never start a flamebait thread. Also, I usually stay OUT of the ones that are (usually, lol). Some are just not worth scolding, and it's alert time.

I agree that a LOT of silly energy is being wasted on photo-op dick-waving and the like. But some of the scraps have merit, and some do not. I am loving the hide feature!

[sendero]

33. This is a great thread....

.... for me to use my POOPER SCOOPER on!

[CatWoman]

41. I have four litter boxes

I could really use the help.

[jumptheshadow]

39. It's the concept that the primaries are over

That gets in my craw.

[JNelson6563]

40. two words

e go

;-)