If Dean wanted voters with playboy logos on trucks, what would u say?

[catherineD]

I don't think most people really understand how offensive that confederate flag remark was. Put aside the conventional pcness of being a liberal Democrat, and just imagine what it would be like to be black, living in the south, and to hear those words about how this candidate wants to bring on board guys who fly confederate flags on their pickup trucks.

These have got to be the most conservative and racist voters in America and he wants them voting for him? If he were able to put together a coalition that included them, do you think Dean would dare be "pro" black issues? He'd be pandering to the guys in his coalition. Let's see if we can't get those KKK guys to join our side, too. And all of those who belong to country clubs that don't allow blacks, jews or women. How about that military guy in Iraq who described Saddam as under the influence of Satan? Let's bring him on board, too.

If Dean were to suggest that he'd like all of those guys with playboy logos on their cars and trucks to join in his fight, I'd have to seriously consider turning to a third party candidate in a general election, if he were the Democratic candidate. How could I consider voting for a guy who thought that something like this was a good idea? It's not enough to say, "Oh, he just meant to reach out to more people and be inclusive." I'm sorry, but the insensitivity goes deeper than that. Reaching out to moderates is more than reasonable, but people with confederate flags aren't moderates. There could be an argument made that many of those with the playboy logos could fit into that category -- I suppose -- but reaching out to such people as a group...I could never stand it.

Leave these kinds of people to the Republican party.

[truthspeaker]

1. if there were a demographic group

... that consistently voted against their own economic interest who also were known for putting Playboy stickers on their cars, then sure.

But then, I don't find Playboy all that offensive.

[Nicholas D Wolfwood]

2. Uhm, no.

I don't want to leave a single vote to the Republican Party. Of course, we could have 99.8% of the vote, and still Katherine Harris would handglide in out of nowhere and rig the election for Bush.

[Padraig18]

3. Yay! Another Confederate Flag thread!

What is this--- the 193rd or 194th? :eyes:

[Ediacara]

5. you're behind the times man, at least the 246th!

[Padraig18]

8. That probably happened while I was in Chicago, visiting family. :P

[tsipple]

4. Welcome to DU, CatherineD!

Unfortunately I think your 20th post is going to be locked by the moderators pretty quickly. Perhaps even before I finish my welcome message to you.

But welcome anyhow.

By the way, please visit Dean for America to get connected to the campaign and to learn more. I'm sure you'll agree that George W. Bush must be defeated in November, 2004. Thanks for your help.

[sendero]

6. this is a great thread...

... for me to POOP on.

[littlejoe]

7. Don't be silly

Of course he wants these voters. Do you realize that, over the last 40 years, with ober 1300 electoral votes cast in southern states, democrats have garnered only about 250? That does not spell success in the south. Like the remarks or not, they happened to be true.

[RetroLounge]

9. Welcome to DU!

and I Poop on this thread...

[eyesroll]

10. Welcome to DU, catherineD!

First of all, not everyone who has a confederate flag on their pickup is a racist. Some of them are misguided. Some of them just think it's "neat" (I live in the north, and I've seen confederate stickers on cars driven by white people, and black people, and hispanic people -- I'm specifically thinking of the student parking lot of the high school where I taught -- not necessarily out of racism but because of ignorance or a misguided attempt to be cool).

Second: You say, "I don't think most people really understand how offensive the confederate flag remark was." Well, if people don't understand, maybe it's because they don't find it offensive. Offensive is relative. Nothing -- well, almost nothing -- is universally offensive. Perhaps, "I don't think most people really understand how offensive TO ME that was." That's a fair statement.

Third: I think just about everyone running for office wants the votes of all of their constituents, not just the ones who pass an ideological smell test. You can be sure that DK, Al, CMB, DG, et. al., will not ask that votes cast by racists, etc., for them not be counted. Dean, if anything, was being honest.

Fourth: Although I do think Playboy logos are tacky, Playboy Magazine itself is read by a wide variety of people. Democrats, Greens, Republicans, independents. Women and men. I know gay men who like the interviews. (Hell, I like the interviews. I'm female.) Something like three million people read Playboy.

Fifth: One of the best ways to change someone's mind is to invite them to your table. We accomplish nothing by just condemning or berating people who we don't agree with or whose views we find reprehensible -- sure, it makes us feel better, and we go publicly on the record as someone who doesn't like it. But, by not engaging the conservative/racist/sexist/etc. people in dialogue, we will never change their minds.
(Think about it here on DU -- We get nothing accomplished with "Dean eats kittens! Clark is the antichrist! You all suck!" but I think constructive dialogue has helped a lot of people here.)

[Bombtrack]

11. thing is, he didn't really think those people would vote for him

he said that to appeal to starbucks and sushi liberals who vote in primaries, who think of southern voters as overwhelmingly ignorant racists.

Whether Dean is in fact one of them, and actually buys into his offensive stereotype of southernors is arguable.

[bearfartinthewoods]

12. well put and welcome to DU

[CWebster]

13. It is slightly more complex than that

The Right won them over because they pandered to the worst weaknesses in people rather than appealing to a broader awareness of how they've been played while their jobs disappear or they can't pay for medicine or education. Dean isn't putting a seal of approval on racist attitudes, he is commenting on how those attitudes are used to divide people and keep people from evolving past their attitudes born of ignorance and often, poor economic circumstances. Racist attitudes create easy scapegoat targets and a sense of entitlement for those with little else.

Why would Christ hangout with sinners? What would be the purpose of preaching to the choir?

[Upfront]

14. Nader Is Your Man

Because is ours, go for it. You won't be missed.

[loyalsister]

15. well....

I assume you're trying to get at a demographic that is a little different from guys who just like their nudie magazines. I don't assume all of them are extreme misogynists.
However, a misogynist with cancer who can't afford health insurance is someone who I may not want to have a conversation with but I do think that he deserves health care and deserves to have the attention of politicians who want to deliver it to him.
To put that in context, I am a member of NOW, and am going to the march on Washington in April with the feminist groups.