Wesley Clark--One Of The Smartest Generals In U.S. History

[in_cog_ni_to]

Here is one reason we have been given the GIFT of Wes Clark....he is BRILLIANT! There is no doubt that this man can learn everything he needs to learn about Domestic issues and learn it FAST. I thought this was very telling.

How does General Wesley Clark compare to legendary West Point Generals? See for yourself.

1. General Robert E. Lee - Class of 1829 #2 in class of 46
(Civil War)
2. General Ulysses S. Grant - Class of 1843 #21 in class of 39
(Civil War)
3. General John J. Pershing - Class of 1886 #30 in class of 76
(World War I)
4. General Douglas MacArthur - Class of 1903 #1 in class of 94
(World War II + Korea)
5. General George S. Patton -Class of 1909 #46 in class of 153
(World War II)
6. General Dwight Eisenhower - Class of 1915 #61 in class of 164
(World War II)
7. General William Westmoreland - Class of 1936 #112 in class of 276
(Vietnam)
8. General Norman Schwarzkopf - Class of 1956 #43 in class of 480
(Dessert Storm)
9. General Wesley Clark - Class of 1966 #1 in class of 579
(NATO/Kosovo)

Definitely one of the smartest generals in U.S. history.

Let Americans know we have a once in a lifetime chance to put this brilliant mind to work solving the problems of this country.

[Bread and Circus]

1. Thanks for this...he's definitely got brains....

[Name removed]

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[Gloria]

4. Clark will go right back and reveal what's going on with those

"beloved" generals. He's already done so and will do it again...

He bucked the Pentagon. People might actually like that....

[Name removed]

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[in_cog_ni_to]

22. Prove it. n/t

[Name removed]

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[Qutzupalotl]

191. They did not fire him.

You keep saying that, but can't back it up.

[Donna Zen]

236. Exactly why do you keep saying that?

Do you love General Shelton so much? Shelton, the defense lobbyist who endorsed bush in 2000 and now refuses to back up his slur. You do know that this "shit" is rightwing junk. Are you proud to carry their water? Does it make you feel superior to General Clark to lie about him?

What could it be? Clinton, who might know just a bit more about the Shelton-Cohen cabal has said Clark was NOT fired. Clark was a victim of the "Clinton Wars." So by trashing Clark along with those bastards, what does this say about you?

[deminflorida]

251. Strange that after he retired he was awarded the highest medal

that can be awarded to a civilian by President Clinton....

Sinks that whole fired for integrety issue doesn't it.

Maybe if Dean would have won a Downhill Olympic Ski Medal he would be able to counter the shit the GOP is going to throw at him just as well.

"In August 2000, President Clinton awarded General Clark with the Presidential Medal of Freedom, the nation's highest civilian honor."

[Name removed]

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[Qutzupalotl]

10. Clark has answered them

calling Shelton's attack unsubstantiated. Note that Shelton has yet to provide specifics. Schwartzkopf was just repeating Shelton's innuendo. That tells me the WH is scared shitless of running AWOL against a real general.

Did you see Clark on Hardball?

[Name removed]

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[Qutzupalotl]

15. Schwartzkopf blew his credibility

by protesting the 2000 recount. America will see him as the partisan hack that he is.

[oasis]

58. Blowhard Schawartzkopf, a tool of the GOP, will try to extend his 15 min.

but to no avail.He will just make a bigger fool of himself. Same goes for Tommy "Marshal Law" Franks.

[OKNancy]

137. Wish I could remember the source, but Schawartzkopf

backed off his statement. He admitted he was only repeating Shelton's comment. Also they can always throw up Colin Powell's glowing statements about Clark.

[Name removed]

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[BootinUp]

196. Yes, I saw him back off

on a second Hardball appearance, not only that but he had some nice comments about Clark and the democratic candidates and said he is an independent.

[TorchTheWitch]

83. as I recall

Schwartzy pissed off Poppy Bush because he wanted to go after Saddam at the end of Gulf I, and Poppy said no. Had some not so nice words exchanged... me thinks that was also the end of Schwartzy's career, but can't recall exactly. In any case, Repugs don't even like him... Repugs don't like folks making meanie on their Bushie.

That pooch not only don't hunt, it can't get it's fat lazy ass off the porch.

[Name removed]

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[eileen_d]

16. Nobody is being forced on anybody.

If you don't like Clark, support your own candidate. Other people are supporting Clark because they have chosen to do so. Nobody is being "duped."

A vote for ANY Democrat, including Clark, is a vote against Bush.

[Name removed]

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[eileen_d]

24. OK, now you're just not making sense.

On many levels.

[TorchTheWitch]

87. it's a language barrier

among other things

[Name removed]

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[Qutzupalotl]

103. You were wrong in your statement

that he was praising the Bush team "weeks ago."

[Name removed]

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[bicentennial_baby]

110. No he did not

As a Clark supporter for the past 4-5 months, I am very aware of what my candidate is saying and not saying. In no time in the "past few weeks" was he singing Bush's praises. That is simply false.

[Name removed]

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[Rowdyboy]

146. Youve been a Democrat since VietNam and you despise Clark

Well, I've been a Democrat since before VietNam; So was my grandfather. Who cares? Its irrelevent. I think Wes Clark is a great Democrat, and will make a great Democratic president. You disagree. Fine.

Thank God, I have the freedom to ignore your obviously biased opinion. You've made a career during your short time at DU for single-mindedly attacking Wes Clark. Thats your right. But don't expect to change any minds with your shrillness and virulence.

[Name removed]

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[Qutzupalotl]

150. You made the statement. You back it up.

You'll find he praised the new administration in 2001, not 2003.

[CivilRightsNow]

186. Bull crap

4/10/03 in the London Times:
http://www.fair.org/press-releases/clark-antiwar.html

Clark made bold predictions about the effect the war would have on the region: "Many Gulf states will hustle to praise their liberation from a sense of insecurity they were previously loath even to express. Egypt and Saudi Arabia will move slightly but perceptibly towards Western standards of human rights." George W. Bush and British Prime Minister Tony Blair "should be proud of their resolve in the face of so much doubt," Clark explained. "Their opponents, those who questioned the necessity or wisdom of the operation, are temporarily silent, but probably unconvinced." The way Clark speaks of the "opponents" having been silenced is instructive, since he presumably does not include himself-- obviously not "temporarily silent"-- in that category. Clark closed the piece with visions of victory celebrations here at home: "Let's have those parades on the Mall and down Constitution Avenue."

In another column the next day (London Times, 4/11/03), Clark summed up the lessons of the war this way: "The campaign in Iraq illustrates the continuing progress of military technology and tactics, but if there is a single overriding lesson it must be this: American military power, especially when buttressed by Britain's, is virtually unchallengeable today. Take us on? Don't try! And that's not hubris, it's just plain fact."

.....
As for the democratic nature of Clark.. We know he supported the bush team by doing a fundraising speech for them at a Republican Party Dinner in Little Rock in 2001, that was after the election.. so when was he supporting Gore? Did he give any speeches when Gore was screwed over in Fl? Im curious.. how many Democrats did Clark speak about? A New hampshire reported debated wether his change of heart on saying that he had voted for Gore was a lie. Unfortunately that article is now a pay to view... Here is some more little factoids for you.
.....
Adding to doubts is Clark's short life as a Democrat: In the past, like many in the military, he voted Republican - for Richard Nixon, Gerald Ford, Ronald Reagan, and George Bush's father. (He did vote for Al Gore in 2000.) To a C-SPAN caller wondering how any Democrat could vote for Reagan, he says that in the Army, he wasn't a member of any party; he just "voted for people who were strong for national security."
http://www.csmonitor.com/2003/1212/p01s03-uspo.html
......I suppose all you people who have been fooled dont remember that C-Span appearance where he admitted to voting for all repubs till Gore.. I do. I dont believe him on Gore, but hey.. Ill have to take the man's "word" eh?


Or what about this quote?
"If this party is going to win in the future," Clark reportedly said, "it's going to need a lot of people like me--people who voted for the man in the past and not the party, people who don't have strong party affiliation."

http://www.tnr.com/primary/index.mhtml?pid=780

Oh.. and since Im sure this will be an issue, it always is. No matter who the links are to.. washington post.. time.. yadda yadda....

Attack the sources all you want. There are other sources with the same information.

[Qutzupalotl]

190. He voted for Clinton twice.

And your quote was him praising the military operation, not Bush.

[Name removed]

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[Qutzupalotl]

201. I know you have no facts.

Let the four-star lead.

[CivilRightsNow]

215. And I thought this was the democratic party...

Not the wishy washy whatever suits my political means party.

"If this party is going to win in the future," Clark reportedly said, "it's going to need a lot of people like me--people who voted for the man in the past and not the party, people who don't have strong party affiliation."


I guess you "Dems" (I use that term loosely cause you arent the dems I grew up with and not true members of my chosen party) should have no problems for people voting Nader, eh? Party affiliations are for rookies, right?

[QC]

207. How do we know who you voted for?

[CivilRightsNow]

213. Well..

Since I didnt feel it was any career move to keep my morals and voting record underwraps.. you would have known Ive been a registered democrat since my 18th birthday.

[QC]

258. How very noble of you!

Same story here. Walter Mondale was my first candidate, and I got out and campaigned for him and then watched him lose 49 states, thus giving us four more years of Reagan.

That's when I learned that winning does matter.

[CivilRightsNow]

212. Okey dokey.... Musta sucked to campaign for Bush while...

voting dem in the last two elections.

And praising the military operation, eh? I dont guess you've actually read the article.

[Qutzupalotl]

217. The last three elections.

Yes, I read the article. Did you? Or did you just look for confirmation of your preconceived notions? He praised the military operation.

[CivilRightsNow]

218. Keep telling yerself that..What you said is UNTRUE

Maybe some day it will be true if you guys repeat it over and over enough.

"As for the political leaders themselves, President Bush and Tony Blair should be proud of their resolve in the face of so much doubt. And especially Mr Blair, who skillfully managed tough internal politics, an incredibly powerful and sometimes almost irrationally resolute ally, and concerns within Europe. Their opponents, those who questioned the necessity or wisdom of the operation, are temporarily silent, but probably unconvinced. And more tough questions remain to be answered. "

http://www.commondreams.org/views03/0917-14.htm

Would you like to eat yer words now? Or later? Would you like a drink to wash them down with? How does "As for the political leaders themselves" mean the military operations?

[Qutzupalotl]

239. Damning with faint praise.

He didn't say they were RIGHT to go in, just that they stuck to their guns. Their opponents are probably unconvinced. And more tough questions remain to be answered. Like where are the WMDs?

[Name removed]

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[CivilRightsNow]

222. But yet he did this year....

So, when's the cutoff of it being unacceptable to praise Dubya for General Clark? Just curious...

July? September?

What?

[BootinUp]

203. The only thing Clark has to prove

Is that he can win the primary and win the general election. How many more posts are you going to put up saying the same inflammatory crap. I feel like I am being spammed or something.

[Qutzupalotl]

32. He wasn't fired.

Read what he has to say:
http://www.msnbc.com/news/1003084.asp
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
GEN. NORMAN SCHWARZKOPF, U.S. ARMY (RET.): He was fired because of matters of character and integrity. That is a very, very damning statement which says if that’s the case he’s not the right man for president as far as I’m concerned.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
MATTHEWS: Well, response?
CLARK: Well, I think you cut off the first part of it, which is, first of all from him, it’s hearsay. He’s quoting another officer who says that that’s why I was fired. And he said if that’s the case. Well, it’s not the case. I wasn’t fired for reasons of character and integrity. In fact, according to the statements of Secretary Cohen, Hugh Shelton and everybody else, I wasn’t fired at all. What we actually had...
MATTHEWS: Why did Schwarzkopf say that?
CLARK: I have no idea. But I’ll tell you what we really did have, Chris, we really had a policy dispute. We had a policy dispute in which one group of officers in the Pentagon working with the Republican-dominated Congress didn’t believe that the United States should act to prevent another war in the Balkans with another round of ethnic cleansing. But it was my area of responsibility and it was my duty to warn the Pentagon and the entire U.S. government and NATO about the dangers ahead. I took my responsibility seriously.
I gave those warnings. I recommended a policy be adopted. It was adopted. The Pentagon had the chance to block that policy, it chose not to. When the diplomacy fail, we went to war. And it was my responsibility to hold NATO together and put the strategy in place. And I believe when you commit American soldiers to combat, or airman or sailor or Marines, once you commit this country’s forces to war and the prestigious of this country, and all of the moral authority of this country, you must succeed.
And I pushed very hard to make sure we did. And there was some people who didn’t like that. But I think my judgment is validated by the fact that today 1.5 million Albanians are back in their homes. And Kosovo is a place of peace. That was achieved through leadership. This is a comment about my leadership, and I think my leadership is proved by the events.
MATTHEWS: Did Bill Clinton agree in your policy?
CLARK: Absolutely.
MATTHEWS: Why did he relieve you?
CLARK: First of all, I wasn’t relieved.
MATTHEWS: You weren’t?
CLARK: No. Uh-uh.
MATTHEWS: You weren’t relieved as supreme commander as NATO.
CLARK: No, I wasn’t. No. I was asked to retire three months early.
MATTHEWS: How is that different?
CLARK: Because, the way it works...
MATTHEWS: Weren’t you hurt by that?
Weren’t you hurt by the president whose policies you supported against the opinions of other high-ranking military people that he would undercut you after you supported him against these other fellows?
CLARK: But you have to let me answer the first question you asked.
MATTHEWS: Go for it.
CLARK: If you relieve someone, you take them out of command. What happened here was, I was asked to retire early and then it was then leaked to “The Washington Post” in an effort to keep me from talking to Bill Clinton about it. So this was a behind the back power play. Bill Clinton told me himself he had nothing to do with it, And I believe him.
MATTHEWS: Why do you believe him?
CLARK: Why do I believe him? Because he’s the command-in-chief and he would not have done this this way. This undercut the ability of the Democrat administration to claim credit for success in the Balkans. And the first thing that happened to Bill Clinton when he went to overseas four days after it was announced everybody said why did you fire the commander who won the war. And he stood up there again and again and said he wasn’t fired, he wasn’t fired, he wasn’t fired.
Have you ever read the statements that Bill Cohen made on my retirement?
Have you looked at how he praised me and said I was a great leader?
Why do you think all this is happening now?
It’s one word, Chris, one word, it’s a word you’re not unfamiliar with: politics.
(APPLAUSE)

[TLM]

88. Being asked to retire early is being fired...

it is simply the polite way of doing it.

[Qutzupalotl]

Not the way they did it.

It was a total behind-the-scenes backstab.

MATTHEWS: You were relieved...
CLARK: Chris. Chris, now wait a minute, I was not relieved, OK?
MATTHEWS: You were asked to retire early.
CLARK: Yes.
MATTHEWS: Who asked you?
CLARK: Actually Hugh Shelton called me. I was in dinner with the president of Lithuania.
MATTHEWS: And what we reaction on being told to retire three months early.
CLARK: I said well why?
MATTHEWS: And he said?
CLARK: He gave me a couple of phony reasons.
MATTHEWS: Were you angry with him?
CLARK: I said can we talk about this?
He said no, I have to tell Secretary Cohen right away that I’ve told you.
MATTHEWS: So Cohen told Shelton to tell you?
CLARK: So I then went back and finished the dinner with the president of Lithuania. It was a really cheery evening. When I came back and got on the phone back in the hotel there and I had my secure communications guy, I said I want to speak to General Shelton. He said sir, there’s a Mr. Graham on the phone. And I was thinking Bob Graham, Bob Graham. I said what’s his first name? He said, well, I don’t know, do you want me to ask? I said no, no, put him through. I thought it was Senator Graham. He said, General, he says, this is Bradley Graham (ph) from “The Washington Post,” and we have an official authorized Pentagon news leak that you’ll be replaced by-he said, and I would just like to ask you when were you consulted with this and what’s your view on it?
CLARK: And I said well, Brad, I wasn’t consulted, I was informed about 45 minutes ago. And you don’t want my view right now.
MATTHEWS: But you weren’t fired?
CLARK: No.
MATTHEWS: Well, it sounds like it. You were told to leave. And I just want to ask you, why do you trust the president? Because the president heard about this, he must have read the news reports, that you had been asked to retire three months early. And he didn’t lift a finger to keep you in the post, when you had fought the war for him and won it. Isn’t that shocking to you and disappointing that the commander in chief you served so nobly and victoriously allowed you to be asked to be retired three months early and didn’t lift a finger to help you? And now you say such glowing things about this man.
CLARK: Well, let’s go back into the story a little bit more, Chris.
MATTHEWS: OK.
CLARK: Because this is a night that’s sort of indelible in my mind.
MATTHEWS: I would expect. What did you feel towards Bill Clinton as you were going to bed that night and you had your head on the pillow? I should ask your wife Gert (ph), by the way. But what were you saying? I just love that Bill Clinton. I mean, I won that war for him, and here’s how he thanks me?
CLARK: Well, as a matter of fact, the first person I talked to, of course, was Hugh Shelton. And the second person was Bill Cohen to talk to.
MATTHEWS: What do you feel about him?
CLARK: So I called Hugh, and he was in a meeting and he couldn’t take the call. And then I called for Secretary Cohen. Of course, he was in Japan.
MATTHEWS: They have phones in Japan.
CLARK: And he was busy preparing for an important meeting.
MATTHEWS: OK.
CLARK: So we had a little problem getting through.
MATTHEWS: You said a while ago...
CLARK: Finally I got through, and I said to Hugh, I said, you know, this is going-this is a mistake. I said, you don’t have to do this. I said, I can’t understand why you’re doing it. But you know this is going to backfire on you. And it’s going to make the United States look bad and look screwed up, and it’s going to look like all the frictions that were there during the war, the frictions that Norm Schwarzkopf had with Colin Powell were identical frictions. I mean, it’s a difference between the perspective of a guy in the field and people in the Pentagon. Always happens every war. And I said, all that’s going to come out, it’s going to make you look bad.
And he said, I’ll-you know, he said, I’ll check with-and I’ll check with our public affairs guy, you know. He called me back about five minutes later and said, he said, you know, he said, I’m really sorry, but the paperwork has already been sent up to the Senate on this.
MATTHEWS: Well, it sounds like you said the buck stops here with the president in another matter tonight, but it seems like in this case you don’t think the buck stops with the president. You don’t hold Bill Clinton responsible for asking you to retire three months early.
CLARK: Well, he could have-he could have reversed it after it was public. But I guess his judgment was that that would in turn undercut the secretary of defense.
MATTHEWS: He would rather undercut you, the guy who helped him win the war.
CLARK: The secretary of defense is-he’s his No. 2 in the national command authority.

[Selwynn]

172. Your right - but I believe being "fired" only shows him to be better --

I believe him when he speaks of being fired because of policy dispute. I believe that's the kind of thing the pentagon would do if a General honestly beleived different than than the standard right-wing owned pentagon brass felt was right. I even think its probably part of the reason Clark embraced democrats - he realized his own values were not apprecated and in fact were punished by his coservative collegues.

Anyway, reguardless of that fact, I think even more highly of a man who was forced into early retirment for standing by principles I believe in in the face of a monstrous organization.

[Name removed]

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[BootinUp]

205. **blind sided**

nice, that is a good question.

[youngred]

86. so party loyalty is a determinant of best person for the job?

what is this communist russia?

Being a part of a party is normally the best way to advance in politics, however, it is not the only way nor is it necessarily the best. When picking someone for office I would rather have a qualified republican or green with whom I agree on most issues with then a dem party hack who doesn't represent my opinions, or beliefs and is unqualified for the job.

[Name removed]

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[youngred]

115. No, not at all

I'm merely pointing out the flaws in your argument. My candidate is Kucinich who happens to have been working in dem politics most of his life.

One doesn't have to be a long term party member to have real feelings and share our issues. In fact some new converts may be more into the issues we cherish than long term hacks

[catherineD]

268. Zell Miller is a Democrat. Read Dean's like moderate Republican

I read an article about Dean the other day that was very positive and supportive, but interestingly said that he might be confused with a moderate Republican! And there have been plenty of conservative Democrats from the south -- in fact, voting Democrat locally in the south, like Arkansas, back when Nixon was running was probably picking the more conservative guy. Read Clark's issues and decide from those whether they agree with you. Clark04.com

[roguevalley]

262. a vote for someone is equal to bush being forced on us after losing

a vote. What a ridiculous statement this is:

If you vote for clark, you should not ever gripe about bush being selected.

[in_cog_ni_to]

21. Clark voted for Clinton

and then Gore when he ran in 2000. How long does someone have to be a REGISTERED Democrat to get YOUR approval? Get your facts straight. Cohen was singing Clark's PRAISES at his RETIREMENT ceremony with....guess who??? standing by his side??? Riiiight! GENERAL SHELTON. Shelton is just pissed off that Clinton agreed with Clark on the Kosovo stategy and has decided badmouthing Clark will be his revenge.

 Collection of Military Testimonials for Clark


Most of these were gathered together by someone who posted them weeks back on the general blog running at the Clark official web site. I added a few more that I had pulled off the open letters written to Clark during the Draft Clark days. Sorry if the formats differ, and I warn you, this is a long post. But all of it involves comments made by people who worked with Clark in the military.

Gerry Smith, West Point Classmate
Gerry SMITH continues to send occasional emails from the Balkans and
recently made some observations that are quite laudatory of Wes
CLARK. " As I travel around Kosovo and visit business owners and
presidents, so many have calendars, posters and photos with Wes
Clark's visage in their offices. While they speak with respect of the
Clintons, Holbrookes, and Walkers, they speak with awe and reverence
for Wes. I am always treated nicely by those I visit. Invariably, in
the small talk that follows, Wes Clark comes up and I mention that we
were in the same West Point class. From that point on, I am treated
like royalty even though I point out that I knew him very little. You
would think I was the hero. I am certain they go home that night to
tell the family they met somebody that knew Wesley Clark."


(http://www.washingtonpost.com, By Vernon Loeb,Washington Post Staff Writer, Wednesday, September 17, 2003; Page A01) “Army Col. Douglas Macgregor .... An author and strategist who has also had his fights with the Army brass, Macgregor said he will forever be indebted to Clark for taking a chance and naming him as director of planning at NATO headquarters in Belgium in 1997:
"There is this aspect of his character -- he is loyal to people he knows are capable and competent," Macgregor said. "As for his peers, it's a function of jealousy and envy, and it's a case of misunderstanding. General Clark is an intense person, he's passionate, and certainly the military is suspicious of people who are intense and passionate. He is a complex man who does not lend himself to simplistic formulations. But he is very competent, and devoted to the country."

(http://www.washingtonpost.com, (By Vernon Loeb,Washington Post Staff Writer, Wednesday, September 17, 2003; Page A01)”William J. Perry, who as deputy defense secretary first encountered Clark in 1994 when he was a three-star general on the Joint Staff. "I was enormously impressed by him," said Perry, a mathematician and legendary Pentagon technologist who later served as secretary of defense under Clinton. Perry was so impressed, in fact, that with Clark facing retirement unless a four-star job could be found for him, Perry overrode the Army and insisted that Clark be appointed head of the U.S. Southern Command, one of the military's powerful regional commanders in chief, or CINCs. "I was never sorry for that appointment," Perry said.www.veteransforclark.com
(Chuck Smith, Command Sergeant Major – Army, City - Clay Center, Kansas)“I am writing this not only to let General Clark know that he has my support, but to let whom ever reads this understand what makes Wes Clark tick. I have known General Clark professionally since he was a Major in Bamberg Germany and I was a Staff Sergeant. I had the privilege to serve with him two more times at Ft Carson Colorado when he was a Brigade XO and then when he was a Battalion Commander. The man is a brilliant leader! He does not make rash decisions. He checks out every option. He listens to his subordinates but asks them the hard questions and then checks out his options again. He is a true professional. If he was in the White House the American public would feel secure in knowing that the decisions he would make would have their best interests in mind. He is a true patriot! What he does and what he says is how he feels about this country and the future of it. He will think about the little guy just as he used to think about the young soldier in that tank engaging the enemy, and what that soldier would have to deal with because of his decision. Wes Clark is the right man for the job!”

Forrest (Bill) Hilbish, CW04 (Retired), US Navy, Mogadore, Ohio, 1975-1999
Comments - I worked for General Clark while stationed at SCJ6 Current Operations Branch for USSOUTHCOM in Panama. He was an excellent leader and commander. My wife was impressed by the fact that even though there were hundreds of officers working for him, he knew both of our names. He replaced General Barry McCaffrey (Drug Czar for Clinton). I am a Republican but I would vote for the "ONE" Democrat. Good luck General...

Louie Yepez, SPC, ARMY, Long Beach, California. 1997-Present
Comments - I first saw Gen. Clark when I was in Bosnia in 1999 and he spoke to us in a theater. I always felt he had strong leadership qualities, which is why i will support him for 2004! Thnak you.

Sam Closkey, Rank - LTC – Army, City - Palm City, FL, 1966-1986
I worked with General Clark at the National Training Center. I always thought he would be an excellent president. He was the easiest guy to work for, smart, appreciative, confident and he really cared about people. I am a registered republican, but he's got my vote. How can I help?

T. Ryan, Rank – SSgt, USMC, City – Boston, Ma, 80-84 87-2003
Comments - Prior to joining the Marines I was a 17 year old Soldier in the 1st Bn 77th Armor 4th ID. Then LtCol Clark was my Bn Commander. I can honestly say he was top notch, very well respected by Enlisted and Officers a like and lerned a lifetime of respect from myself. A true Soldiers Soldier. Thanks for everything Sir and Semper Fidelis.


"I have watched him at close range for 35 years, in which I have looked at the allegation, and I found it totally unsupported," said retired Gen. Barry R. McCaffrey, who taught with Clark at West Point in the 1970s. "That's not to say he isn't ambitious and quick. He is probably among the top five most talented I've met in my life. I think he is a national treasure who has a lot to offer the country."http://www.azstarnet.com/vote/31012nClark-Military.html"Look, for 34 years when there was a tough problem the local leadership asked Wes Clark to take on the problem," McCaffrey said. "This guy has been incredibly successful at doing the country's business." http://www.azstarnet.com/vote/31012nClark-Military.html "Two other retired lieutenant generals who worked with Clark, Dan Christman and Don Kerrick, said friction involving Clark was to be expected as he tried to balance the interests of NATO allies and the United States.
"We knew that he was a man of his word and that he would deliver what we expected," said Kerrick, who was deputy national security adviser to President Clinton when Clark was at NATO.

Colonel David Hackworth (www.clarkmyths.com) “At the interview, Clark came along without the standard platoon of handlers and treated the little folks who poured the coffee and served the bacon and eggs with exactly the same respect and consideration he gave the biggies in the dining room...”

Military Support from the Draft days:

FirstName: Tony
LastName: Jones
City: Mandeville
State: LA
Date: 09/13/2003
Time: 09:42 PM
Comments
Dear Sirs, As a former military officer myself and having served under Clark, I can attest to the fact that Mr. Clark is a strong leader and a truly innovative thinker. Not afraid to make decisions but wise in mechanics of diplomacy as well. I applaud his stance and feel that as any American, he has the right to question the current administration and it’s policies. As a member of the military you do not enjoy these rights only the heavy often dangerous burden of protecting them. My hats off to him and any other American who has the courage to be a free thinker and not ignorantly mimic those who choose to use political spin to support a very flawed policy for the US. I fully support Mr. Clark’s ability and his courage to take a stand for what many millions of Americans believe in but are afraid to express – a strong nation with a solid foundation capable of operating with tact and discretion a global society. I am disgusted with the current administrations tactic of wrapping their poor decisions in an American flag and declaring those who challenge them as unpatriotic. How dare them and any other citizen who is a true American to believe that free speech is something to be suppressed. I, like Mr. Clark and millions of others, have spent a large portion of our adult lives defending this great nation and it’s constitution and fully support the right of each and every American to express his or her rights of free speech. Good or bad, pleasant or not, these rights are what make this country great. I and all my friends will be behind Mr. Clark should he decide to make this very important decision, one which I know will be of great benefit to this country and the entire world.

FirstName: Frank
LastName: Adams
City: Spanish Fort
State: AL
Date: 09/12/2003
Time: 09:57 AM
Comments
General Clark was my last boss in the Army. He was the J-5. I never worked harder, but it was clear that what he had us doing was important. He is the smartest, fairest man I have spent time around. If he runs, it will be for the good of the country, not for any type of self aggrandizement. I am prepared to actively work for his election. I am also pledging $500 to his campaign. General, duty is calling you once again. Please answer the call.

FirstName: Angelo Ray (GSE-15 CIV/COL) KFOR
LastName: GALAS
City: New York
State: NY
Date: 09/15/2003
Time: 09:14 PM
Comments
General Clark, America needs you. Please run for president. I served with you in Albania and Kosovo, first as part of TF Hawk, then into KFOR. I'd like to "meet up," with fellow supporters at the New York Athletic Club, which I think would be a great venue, no host. Keep me posted. You're a leader and a true hero, our military, our citizenry, deserve an intelligent, experienced, multilateralist to lead. You and your family will make a great First Family and I'd be honored to serve you again. Very Respectfully, /s/ Ray Galas Commissioner City and County of Honolulu (Now resident of New York City.)

[Name removed]

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[youngred]

94. and you can't prove he didn't

nor can you prove he voted for Reagan twice.

The point is, a moderate with liberal leanings like Clark is very representative of Middle America. He like many many many Americans could have voted for Reagan and Clinton twice. He could, as he has said and as his military service demands have been largely apolitical. You don't know and neither do I.

PS my candidate is Kucinich before you accuse me of being a clark supporter

[Name removed]

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[jpgpenn]

74. "purge" ?

...as in your addiction to enemas?:hurts:

[JasonFromWaltham]

84. Shrink the sample size

Many of Clark's supporters like myself were in the draft, because we saw no other candidate we though we could support. If clark dropped out, I doubt we would flock to any candidate. Some would go to each candidate and some might simply throw up their hands and start looking at immigration laws in places like Canada and Norway. :) (I have admittedly looked at them when I get down on the process).

[mikehiggins]

104. What about Australia?

Years ago I considered moving there, even with the sharks and the damn spiders. People with skills are always welcome.

And Freemasons

[JasonFromWaltham]

164. Thats good, and NZ too. :)

[QC]

9. Do you ever get tired of dropping the very same turd into every thread?

You know, there are many subjects that you are allowed to discuss here and lots of smart people to discuss them with.

You don't have to cut 'n paste the same bit into every thread, you know. Branch out! Expand your horizons!

[Name removed]

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[eileen_d]

19. Do not pretend to channel RFK

It makes you look a tad foolish.

[Name removed]

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[eileen_d]

29. Nevertheless, you are not RFK.

Can we at least accept reality on that one?

[mikehiggins]

114. You are the Queen of Understatement ;^) n/t

[in_cog_ni_to]

28. He retired...he wasn't fired. Get your facts straight. n/t

[QC]

34. Did he tell you this during a seance or something?

Perhaps you just can't take the truth about how pointless and irrelevant your spamming of right wing talking points is.

[Name removed]

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[eileen_d]

44. Ah - Hillary!

The plot thickens... Tell us your opinion of the Clintons.

[Name removed]

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[eileen_d]

53. "It is on this board" therefore it's true?

Let's talk about Monica Lewinsky. Who do you think she'll endorse?

[Name removed]

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[Name removed]

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[youngred]

96. her name is Eleanor not Mrs. FDR

she did some pretty amazing things without having to be attached to her husband's name

[Qutzupalotl]

102. Do you have a link?

BTW, Clark was not selected, Bush was. Clinton isn't endorsing anyone until after the primaries.

So this seance...where did you hear about it? Lucianne.com?

[in_cog_ni_to]

220. Wesley Clark was DRAFTED

by the CITIZENS of this country. THAT is the only reason he agreed to run. He was happily retired until then.

[roguevalley]

263. I talk to my dead grandma because I miss her and it comforts me.

That doesn't make me senator from new york.

[QC]

45. Support whoever you like

and I will do the same.

Or, if you want to persuade me, try using something that wasn't beaten to death on Free Republic months ago.

[Name removed]

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[in_cog_ni_to]

48. A few months ago??? Hahaha!

Again, get your facts straight.

[Name removed]

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[in_cog_ni_to]

55. Why does it matter how LONG?

What matters is...he voted for Clintin and then Gore in 2000 and is NOW a registered Democrat.

[Name removed]

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[bicentennial_baby]

64. How can you prove he voted for Nixon and Reagan?

Goes both ways...

[Name removed]

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[bicentennial_baby]

68. Weeks ago?

No, he was'nt, you are being disingenuous.

[Qutzupalotl]

69. Weeks ago?!

Try years ago. And try listening to people instead of being a broken record.

[Name removed]

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[bicentennial_baby]

80. Again, you are being disingenuous

Clark was not a registered anything until September, when he registered as a Democrat. In Arkansas, you are not required to affiliate yourself with a particular party if you choose not to. You can check the Arkansas State Elections website, they have a .pdf of the form.

I'm a registered Independent, should I go away too?

[Name removed]

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[bicentennial_baby]

99. You don't make sense

Seriously, I don't know what you're saying, so buh-bye.

[Name removed]

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[bicentennial_baby]

116. Excuse moi?

Because you make no sense, I support Clark? Uh-huh, ok... :eyes:

[in_cog_ni_to]

223. First of all,

Clark was in the Military for 34 years. They DO NOT register with a party to vote. Let me ask you this. WHY do you accept the fact that he voted for Reagan and Nixon, but refuse to accept the fact that he voted for Clinton and then Gore? Could it be you are being biased here? Second, as stated above, he was not required to register a party affiliation in Arkansas, so he very well could have been a Democrat all these years, for all you know.

[Qutzupalotl]

81. YOU be honest.

You said he was praising the Bush team "weeks ago." Prove it or remain silent.

[Donna Zen]

267. Liberals are broad-minded

In cyber space people say anything. They say they are long term Dems, when they may be registered repubs. They say they are supporting a Dem. while they may actually supporting bush. Because it is difficult to know who is telling what lie and why they are doing so, all another poster can do is look at the record.

Has that person posted rightwing talking points? (check)

Has that person consistently since making the scene, attacked a particular candidate? (check)

Does the person in question, continue to post the same accussations regardless of being refuted? (check)

Has that poster knowing lied? (check)


Does that person play the game by using the framing technique of claiming to be a great but concerned Democrat, and then feeling the need to flame away? (check--check--)

At some point, one needs to point out the credibility gap of one so willing to carrying the water of deceit and dissention. I Hope 4 more credibility than the current rants of someone who is not broad-minded. The poster doth protest to much.

[Qutzupalotl]

59. Inventing a new issue, huh?

not one person said a thing about clark's state rebel flag.

Maybe it's because HE HAD NOTHING TO DO WITH IT.

[knight_of_the_star]

148. DOES IT MATTER?

Seniority should NOT be a basis for choosing a candidate. If you want to do it that way, you can go over to Communist China. I hear they use that system there.

[mikehiggins]

111. Bullshit

RFK didn't put "party loyalty" first at any point in his tragically truncated career.

If that was his rule he never would have stood in opposition to LBJ.

RFK followed principle, and welcomed support from everyone, even newcomers to the party.

If Clark says he was a Democrat since birth there is no way you can say he wasn't. Hell, Zell Miller says he's a democrat and he's behind Bush all the way.

Your posts and your arguments are both worthless and senseless.

Welcome to the wonderful world of ignore.

[Name removed]

119. Deleted message

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[Walt Starr]

14. Poop

:hurts:

[TorchTheWitch]

75. he's baaaaaaack

Also a fired General but a bush team player

He wasn't fired. He's Clinton's boy.

Wake up, if he is our candidate, the bush team will bring on generals that americans love and respect to tell how he was fired and scare the people of him being soft on terrorist and they will believe them.

They tried that already... where were you? And they couldn't even use that tired "fired" line because he wasn't. Best they could come up with was "had character and integrity issues". They couldn't back it up when called on it so they crept away never to be seen again.

Let us all vote for dems and I would love to see a poll of what would happen if this bush team player (has he register yet as a dem) was out of the race.

Yep, he's a registered Dem... you're kind of slow getting up to speed, huh?. Again... Clark is Clinton's boy.

The rest wasn't close enough to English to respond to.

Nice work Serbian dude... recognized your writing style. How's that website coming along? Still got that multi-pop ad problem?

[Name removed]

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[Name removed]

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[Name removed]

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[Qutzupalotl]

130. You're not being logical.

He was selected by the clinton power group
1) he wasn't, and 2) so what?

you all are telling me and their is a power struggle between gore and clinton report on here.
This has been debunked. Keep reading in GD, you'll see it.

Logical thinking is saying clark should prove he is a dem by running for a lower office
Logical thinking tells me that you don't want Bush to run against Clark because you're afraid Clark would beat Bush.

[Name removed]

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[Name removed]

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[TorchTheWitch]

109. he wasn't selected

he was drafted.

I think you need to become an American first before you can accurately discuss American politics.

You still have that multi-pop up problem on your website, Serb dude.

[Name removed]

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[Hope4]

I was a military person - served several tours in nam

I was a register dem.

I also do not like dean being attacked for what he did to stay out of the war. Our party was strongly against the Nam war.

I am just not for fired generals.

I would love to welcome him but not for the top position. Not one person on this thread has shown anyone why he should not prove to us he is a dem by serving.

What gives him the right to jump over all the rest?

I hope all see what some of you stated about the rest of our fine dems running.

[dutihampi]

232. Are you for real??

You sound like a repug troll... And in response to your
arguments...

1. The Arknasas flag is not the rebel flag. It resembles
the rebel flag but obviously is NOT the same flag.

I would love to welcome him but not for the top position. Not one person on this thread has shown anyone why he should not prove to us he is a dem by serving.

2. To me and the majority of his Dem base he has proven he is
a Dem. And as far as serving, he has served our country his entire
life.


What gives him the right to jump over all the rest?

3. Because he happens to be an american citizen. I may be
mistaken but I'm pretty sure that american citizens over the
age of 35 are able to run for president...


I would suggest that if you would like to debate his qaulifications
that maybe you should come with better material to support your
argument.

[wyldwolf]

170. If you do not come through and prove your allegations..

...you will only be known as... well, can't say it -- the post would be deleted.

[TrueAmerican]

3. Now More Than Ever! America needs Wesley Clark!

Vote for him in the primaries.

[Walt Starr]

6. His West Point standing always draws me back to Clark

He's abrilliant man, and it takes one hell of a lot more than brains to get the #1 standing in West Point.

A definite positive point! One that will work in his favor, especially when compared to the Chimp's "Gentleman's C".

[arewethereyet]

255. one point

not that top of the class is anything other than admirable at any institution, but no one has ever heard of any of the other hundred(s) of other such notable folks.

And it really is largely brains that gets that. Distinction once the diplomas are handed out is quite a bit harder to come by.

And Clark has some of that as well but not so much as people give him credit for.

[MIMStigator]

7. Clark is smart as hell

nt

[Hope4]

11. Not enough to be not fired

Dems, why do we need an outsider with all the good loyal people we have running.

You all should be ashamed that we have to go outside. As a party that backs unions, no union would let that happen to loyal workers. You would see protest of the bosses trying to bring in a friend to take a postion from a loyal union worker.

Stand up to selection. ABCD!

[Walt Starr]

13. Poop

:hurts:

[JasonFromWaltham]

23. Guess I am not wanted either

Hmm... I guess I am not wanted in the party then too. I am a former independent who has voted republican and has now changed parties and joined my Democratic City Committee. Good to know my new party is so welcoming to new members.

[eileen_d]

27. Wahoo! Welcome to DU, JasonFromWaltham!

:yourock:

Your political background sounds a lot like my dad (except he hasn't made "the switch" formally yet). Believe me, the majority of DU is always glad to meet and welcome new Democrats like yourself.

[chiburb]

30. Nah, the party IS a big tent...

The poster you responded to has been dropping the same line in numerous threads lately... yawn.
Welcome to DU!

[JasonFromWaltham]

35. Ok I feel better

Good to know, I guess this is the vitriolic nature DU is trying to rid itself of.

[eileen_d]

39. Yes, the primaries are making "General Discussion"

more like "General Bar Brawl." It's kind of a bummer sometimes.

[QC]

36. Pay no attention. We're not all members of the Purity Patrol.

[in_cog_ni_to]

40. We LOVE you JasonFromWaltham!!!

:loveya: :7

[Hope4]

41. No your doing it the righ way

Your getting in and working hard.

We have all these loyal dems running and have spent years with us and then a few powerful people go out and get a fired general from the bush team. Makes no sense to me.

You work hard for us and you should be rewarded. How would you feel if they bump you off the city committee for a guy that was on the bush team and was fired but some powerful people wanted him and not you.

Think about facts.

[JasonFromWaltham]

43. My city committee can't fill its roster

We have open seats in every ward and one ward with NO members. That says it all. Take people's good will and interest in the party for what it is, just that. We want to get involved because we feel the country is going in the wrong direction and the Republican party is broken beyond repair. Don't chew out people and presidential candidates who wish to help this party and save us from a single party political system.

[Hope4]

46. What dems want is what you say

I just want to support dems and it is not right to go outside.

We have good candidates but have to go get a bush team player. Makes no sense to me.

Ask the unions what they would do if the bosses tried to bring someone in over a loyal person with senority.

[in_cog_ni_to]

52. Clark is a registered Democrat

he's NOT an outsider. He voted for Clinton...hear that? ..
C-L-I-N-T-O-N.
THEN, he voted for GORE. Hear that...does it sink in? G-O-R-E. Get your facts straight before you say something, it makes you look bad.

[Hope4]

60. How do you know who he voted for?

Can you see the future?

How long has he been a dem?

Less than a year?

Less than a week?

Less than a day?

I am trying like many dems to win this with a liberal dem. I don't like selection.

If your going to go outside, get a winner not a fired general from the bush team.

[in_cog_ni_to]

65. I know who he voted for because he said

he voted for them. It doesn't matter how long he's been a dem.....what IS important is he is one NOW. He's pro-choice, pro-environment, pro-affirmative action, ect... he's a dem...trust me. What? Is he a threat to you and your candidate? I understand because you SHOULD be threatened, he's going to win.

[Hope4]

126. No problem with him joining us, just not to be the leader

Hey, he wants to run for lt gov of Ark, fine with me. Get a track record.

He has no record as a dem.

[Qutzupalotl]

67. This is getting ridiculous.

How do you know he didn't vote for who he says he voted for? Why would he admit to voting Republican at all, if he were unethical?

Look at Clark's stance on the issues. He's one of the most liberal candidates out there.

And for the last time, HE WASN'T FIRED!

[eileen_d]

70. Look, people - it's a BOT! It can't process new information!

Its I/O function is broken. It cannot accept new input. It can only output what it was programmed to output.

[Qutzupalotl]

73. LOL

Sorry, thought he was real.

[arendt]

82. Cool. I made the same comment in a usenet forum about 5 years ago

Nobody got it then; its a commonplace now.

I feel old. -)

arendt

[QC]

259. I just had a sudden flashback to ELIZA!

[Hope4]

128. He has no record as a dem holding an office

Anyone can say something.

Are other dems running have a record as dems.

He could be a wolf in sheeps clothing.

[Qutzupalotl]

132. Could be--but until you know

why keep stirring the shit? You don't know anything.

[Hope4]

151. You know nothing either about him

You don't try out people for the top job.

He has no history with us.

Look at all the dirt thrown on this web site at him. What will the other side do.

I want to win with a dem.

You may get your wolf in sheeps clothing with him.

Take the dean route. Job - Lt Gov - Gov. then run.

Or the others with records not clarks smoke and mirrors and trust what I say. I don't.

I join the other generals and fire him as an outsider for my choice.

[Qutzupalotl]

159. Sounds like I know more about him than you do.

Look at his stance on the issues, then tell me he's not a Democrat. Listen to him speak, not what Rove wants you to say about him.

All you've done is repeated the same talking points, and when they're refuted, you repeat them somewhere else. You're just weakening your position, digging yourself in deeper. But you have no credibility.

Look at all the dirt thrown on this web site at him.
Most of it's coming from you. I wonder why. :eyes:

[Hope4]

162. You do not have to wonder, I want a liberal democrat

You only state he tells us.

The others can show us actions they took, results they got. He is all talk.

Welcome him and ask him to run for lt gov of ark. Show us.

That is logical my friend. What if he did that and got killed in the election. Better there than here. Or he started to gov like bush.

Think of what carter said about miller and you know little about clark than he was good at taking test, was fired as a general and just became a democrat.

[Qutzupalotl]

179. Repeating a lie doesn't make it the truth.

He wasn't fired. I've already shown that.

you know little about clark than he was good at taking test
He taught himself to play the piano, has a Master's degree in Philosophy and a Master's degree in Economics. He speaks four languages (Russian, French, Spanish & English). That's more than just taking tests. That's a brilliant man.

The others can show us actions they took, results they got. He is all talk.
He got Milosevic out of power without losing a single American life.

What if he did that and got killed in the election.
What you're really afraid of is Bush losing. Admit it.

[knight_of_the_star]

231. Excuse me, but he isn't all talk

He is a man of his word, something that is a bit of a rarity these days. His word can be honoured and trusted. If he says where he stands on something, then I can be sure that he is truthful in that regard.

[in_cog_ni_to]

226. What you need to read is

the CLARK/KUCINICH comparison that was posted on DU. Didn't I read that you are a Kucinich supporter? Well, BRACE yourself. Clark and Kucinich are closer in their political compass' than any of the other candidates. Clark is VERY Liberal.

Does ANYONE have that comparison that was posted here in GD about a month ago? I don't know if I bookmarked the thread. If I did, I'll post it.

[youngred]

112. Not all feel that way

Welcome to DU and to the Dem Party

[chiburb]

26. Is ABCD...

Anybody But Clark/Dean? You seem to smear them equally. Now if I could just figure out who YOUR candidate is...

[Name removed]

31. Deleted message

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[Hope4]

57. I was for dean but DK'ers are trying to get me over

I did not like hearing on hear how there are two powerful groups trying to select who will be our candidate. I learned it on here. It is the only political board I go on.

Dean seem to be against that and then fell into it with gore.

You will see me strongly as a viet nam vet support dean and say knock off the attacks about Nam.

As a dem vet, I have no respect for Clark. If we want to win he will not help but hurt. NO fired general will help.

I would love to see a poll with him dropping out and what it would do to loyal long term dems running.

I started the abcd on here and may go away from dean. I really like what he has done with the internet but he seems to be selling out to the power groups.

[TorchTheWitch]

117. haha

Now if I could just figure out who YOUR candidate is...

Oh that's easy... Milosevic.

[Hope4]

143. No was strong dean now leaning to dk

DK people care.

[in_cog_ni_to]

37. He's not an outsider. Get your facts straight. n/t

[Doctor_J]

18. Or, to put it in a sound bite

Wesley Clark - 1st in his class, wrote a seminal book on international affairs
George W. Bush - Needed AA to get into college, boasts about not reading books

Oh, what a thumping Smirk is headed for in 11 months.

[PATRICK]

33. Dear Lord

Don't in any way put him on the same plane as MacArthur. And I don't mean militarily, I mean politically. MacArthur was neo-aristocratic poison. Maybe Clark is the polar opposite of MacArthur politically but he certainly smudges your point.

It is true in the past the US founbd better results or comfort in the lower ranks of the academic achievers for their workhorse, grinding strategies of industriasl strength inevitability. For elan and brilliance(needed by underdogs) others turned to the smart guys. As did the South, the Germans, the French Empire.

But there was always a political conflict, jealously, fear in those equations. In fact Lee became the South in the last years. The German Generals conspiracy. MacArthur(underdog forces int eh Pacific) became Shogun then insubordinate to Truman. Napoleon couldn't trust his best generals who betrayed him big time when the chips were down.

Clark is more unique, in his historical position at least, and unique as a democratic idealist.

[moondust]

49. Clark can handle complexity.

Unlike the "with us or against us", "dead or alive", "my way or the highway" barnyard boob currently wrecking the world for fun and profit.

[Myra]

54. His intelligence is just stunning.

And his wit, and warmth, and eloquence.

[JNelson6563]

61. Whee-hoo!

I just got in form an invigorating sign posting mission and a brief concert (grade school level) and the first post I spy is one that is positively promoting their candiate!

Very nice.

I'd also like to add I agree that Clark is one smart fellow. No doubt. He could kick ass in a debate with boy king or Cheney, should he be in either position on the ticket. I'd look forward to it with great anticipation.

Good post! *applause*

Julie

[GOPBasher]

63. Wow! That is incredibly impressive!

Thanks for posting that. I'm going to hang that on my wall. :bounce: I had no idea that so few of those other generals had been #1 in their class, and the only one who had didn't have a class anywhere near as big as Clark's.

[Hope4]

135. It has no meaning, look at where grant placed

He did more for this country in freeing the slaves.

Bill gates never finished college. You can go on and on. Number one in class does not mean that much. He was good at taking test.

Still got fired.

[Qutzupalotl]

155. Clark was not fired.

[JasonFromWaltham]

76. Integrity

For those who do not know at the military academies class rank is not only determined by scholastic aptitude, but also an integrity system in which each cadet is given demerits for violation the honor code. Finishing #1 in your class is not only the measure of a cadet’s intelligence, but also his integrity making his ranking even more impressive.

[youngred]

78. class grades are not necessarily an indication of intelligence

or of competence in office. While I may like Clark that is not any indication of anything

[neuvocat]

85. What about teaching there?

I guess to you that would be an indication of his lack of intelligence. Way to analyze. Yeah.

[youngred]

122. I didn't say lack of intelligence either

and cut the sarcasm, I'm just making a point.

I like Clark, but this is no measure of the man himself.

[neuvocat]

158. Then nothing else would be

when it comes to what he's done and how he's lived.

If you're going to knock him down on one of his strengths, you don't need to stop there. Just keep going and mow the man down. Go ahead.

[youngred]

224. *yawn*

now I see what everyone complains about the embittered partisans who take even the slightest criticism (when i never even posted a criticism of Clark) as a personal insult and goes on the offensive.

The same rule I think would apply to all candidadtes not just Clark.

[neuvocat]

230. What's the matter?

Did you somehow manage to get even yourself bored with repeating yourself here?

[youngred]

233. No I was bored

by your lame attempts to slam me over nothign because of nothing more than a *percieved* slight against your candidate. Yet you have the audacity to question my maturity.

[neuvocat]

237. Even though you told me to "Grow up"?

Nah, that's not boredom, that's being childish.

What is boring, in case you didn't remember, is your own repetition of saying someone isn't capable of leading the country despite their academic qualifications.

Bill Clinton would disagree with you. After all, he said that Clark would make a good President.

[youngred]

241. Wrong

I never said he wouldn't be good because of that. I said that it was not an accurate indicator. Those are very different points and I'm sorry you can understand the distinction. Its not childishness when I call you on your own childish behaviour (which I may point out started the whole interaction as I had nothing negative to say about Clark at all in this thread). I have to keep repeating that however in the hope that you might understand that point instead of blindly attacking anything remotely critical of your saviour candidate.

and I didn't say Clark wouldn't be a good president, just that this information is not a way to tell that. And as for Bill Clinton's opinion, I could care less. He has his opinion I have mine. I defend Clinton as a Democrat against the illegal and vile attacks of the right, but that does not make him a progressive or his opinion matter more to me than my own and those of other people I respect.

[neuvocat]

243. Here's an extra oar for you

to help you with all that backpeddling.

[youngred]

244. hahahhahahaha

nice try, but my statements haven't changed throughout this thread.

You can't find a valid criticism, and you can't back out now so make shit up...nicely done!

I note you still haven't said anything about the actual content of my post, just make your false accusations and fail to acknowledge your knee-jerk reaction. Excellent

[neuvocat]

246. Let's review:

"class grades are not necessarily an indication of intelligence or of competence in office. While I may like Clark that is not any indication of anything"

You never brought forth any reasons or any proof as to why this is.

I also pointed out that you can single out any of his qualifications and summarily say that they aren't good enough to reflect a man's charachter or leadership.

[youngred]

247. why test grades and school grades aren't necessarily...

an indication of intelligence. I think that should be pretty obvious. Most people can study hard enough, or get through on native intelligence enough to get good grades. This however does not assure anything like decision making, ability to lead, etc. I would have thought this to be obvious but I guess not, sorry for assuming you would know

[neuvocat]

248. You don't need an oar

you need a shovel with the way you're digging yourself into a hole.

And while I'm at it, I guess I should apologize because you didn't do more to elaborate on your position. Not everyone is a mind reader here, you know.

[youngred]

252. Please

I try to be nice and you still attack me...yet I'm the juvenile one. I'm not digging any holes.

I would assume however, that most people would know that good grades in school aren't a guaranteer of success or of competency. Plenty of other men have graduated #1 from west point and would have made horrible Presidents. I'm sure some have graduated last and would make excellent ones. So I didn't think most people would need it s-p-e-l-l-e-d out for them in the manner in which you seem to need, in fact if I was so unclear how come you seem to be the only one with this comprehension problem?

in fact look, I'm not even the only one who feels this way: http://www.democraticunderground.com/discuss/duboard.php?az=show_mesg&forum=104&topic_id=890041&mesg_id=893845&page=
from lower in this thread...or perhaps you'd like to jump down their throat and attack them with groundless accusations for denouncing the sacred name of Clark?

[neuvocat]

253. Groundless accusations?

Saying that a man's intelligence means nothing with regards to leadership?

Damn dude, you can't even back up what you say and instead of bringing up what you said with either quotes or links, you have to link it to what someone else posted.

I guess I can't blame you when you put up shit like this:

"...or perhaps you'd like to jump down their throat and attack them with groundless accusations for denouncing the sacred name of Clark?"

I never said that Clark's name was sacred. You're the one who's putting words into people's mouths. I've already acknowledged that if there was a better choice for whom to vote, then I would make that choice.


Maybe you think what they have to say is more valid than what you have to say, even if its the same thing.

And then to top it all off, you make assumptions as to what people are supposed to be thinking.

[youngred]

256. My god you're being dense

I'm sorry but if you're going to continue in this vein I'm done (and I hope you're glad that you've managed to drive a potential supporter from the field with your obnoxiousness).

Anyway, I have backed up what I've said, you however have not proved anything about your man's leadership abilites or effectivness as a the next chief executive of this country. It's a good thing that I have already done some reading and researching on Clark and like him. You have given no reason to support him, only attacked me about with something that most posters seem to have no problem in understanding...that good grades do not equal a good person. If that is the kind of element that your candidate draws then I may choose to take my support elsewhere.

No, you never said Clark's name was sacred, but the manner in which you attack all criticism (even when there is no criticism even leveled) of him leads me to that conclusion about your opinions. I don't make assumptions but the manner in which you have conducted this exchange leaves little doubt in my, or others minds where you stand (and believe me I have had that opinion corroborated by others here to see if I was being as loony as you have accused me of being).

Maybe you think what they have to say is more valid than what you have to say, even if its the same thing.
I can't tell if that's supposed to be criticism, but it sure is incomprehensible. I repeated what I said (which was patently obvious to most elementary readers) but you persisted in mis-interperting an insult where there was none. What I said was perfectly valid, and an opinion shared by others. If you cannot see that then I rather pity your critical thinking abilities. I didn't say it means nothing, but that it is not necessarily an indication of anything. Eisenhower, who is one of the few conservative presidents I actually respect, ranked 61st in his class, placement in a class is not a representation of anything, like I said. I posted the link to the other poster in the hope that maybe you would comprehend my point when worded differently and you were not looking through it as a lens of attack and criticism (which my post was not, hell I even defended Clark in this thread to another poster).

[neuvocat]

257. "I can't tell if that's supposed to be criticism"

Really. Just how did that one go over your head? Maybe there was something I implied that you didn't get. Oh yeah, that's a good one. Why not just use that to arbitrarily defend myself instead of actually having to put any thought into what I say? Its awfully convenient.

If you really think that I could sway you from supporting Clark then you give me a lot more credit than you say you do.

[youngred]

260. and you still refuse to get the point

I put a lot more thought into my lengthy replies than you do in your 5 sentence bashes and cheap shots. You invoke no thought, no argument, no logic, nor any sort of accurate defense...just mindless stupid posts which serve no purpose than to start a fight (at which you've exceeded masterfully). You are not half so clever as it went over my head, rather your incomprehensible rants about nothing other than attacks on me (you've stopped even trying to refute my valid point because you can't)

You don't sway me for or against, but with an attitude like yours don't expect many converts to your side. I finally understand why everyone complains about the candidate wars, I come into one thread and this is the reception I get?

It's not worth my time to fight your stupidity any further so go ahead and attack me all you want I'm not going to post anymore to this thread.

Bon chance and see you at the convention

[Qutzupalotl]

90. Fair enough. How about Rhodes Scholar

with two Master's degrees who speaks four languages?

[neuvocat]

98. I'm sure he's gonna say that only counts for booksmarts

and that combat experience isn't enough to balance out his academic qualifications and count as real life experience.

[youngred]

127. and I'm sure that you can keep putting words in my mouth all day long

and still be wrong.

Just because someone isn't convinced by your evidence does not mean they're attacking your candidate. Grow up.

[neuvocat]

153. What kind of shit are you trying to pull here?

You mean that you can't tell the difference between disagreeing and bashing a candidate? I sure as hell can. Look at what's going on here and see this for what it is.

IF somehow you're mature enough to tell the difference.

[Hope4]

160. No bashing just welcoming clark to the party and telling him

where to start to be a leader here. Get a track record not just what I say and as a clarkie add here he is bills buddy.

Run for lt gov of ark. I will support that.

Prove to us your a dem and liberal.

[Qutzupalotl]

165. Prove he's not.

And tell me, why would a Republican want Bush to lose?

[Hope4]

183. Send the rookie clark to the minors

Let him prove he can win and govern.

No rookies with the all stars we have.

[Qutzupalotl]

193. That's not a proof.

Just a misguided opinion, designed to deceive.

[youngred]

229. That's your opinion

and while I am leery of a change of position from him come the general election/presidency I doubt he would do it. He is shrewd enough to know that changing again would be political suicide and he certainly doesn't want that

[youngred]

228. Let's hear it for low blow partisan stupidity!

because that's all my 'immature' person can read in your posts.

I do see it for what it is.

yr: Grades in college are not an accurate determinant of success
neuvocat: YOU HATE CLARK YOU HATE CLARK, I BET YOU ARE GOING TO SAY HE'S AN IDIOT
yr: no, my point was that it doesn't matter if its Clark or not, that isn't important...I even like Clark
neuvocat: You obviously don't understand what's going on AND you're immature.

Oh yeah, I can see who doesn't understand what's going on :eyes:

[youngred]

125. Again, intelligence doesn't equal competence

no doubt its an important thing to have in an executive (see current resident for an example), but this does not make the case, for me at least, that he is the best man to lead the country. I would gladly vote for Clark and think he may have the best chance to beat Bush, but this doesn't convinceme of anything

[Hope4]

131. Note his list, he has Gen Westmoreland on it

He ran the mess in nam and the clark guy puts him on the list.

Tells you a lot. He should have been fired like clark was.

We have what many say is too many people running. Well thank goodness if we have a choice of dems and why do we need an outsider who became a dem a few weeks ago.

I want him as a dem but why should he take over?

[JasonFromWaltham]

136. and he is the worst on the list!

Want to know of a General who finished LAST in his class.... Custer! No joke. West Point is a good judge of talent and lack there of.

[Hope4]

142. Check Grant out - Westmoreland was not fired like Clark

But should have been.

I note our history. When we need someone to be tough on crime we did not go to the repubs for one of their team players, rfk jr moved up and took on the Mafia.

We could find someone to boldly tell what they will do with the terrorist issue from the group we have.

Wish they would spend more time on what they will do.

I will vote for clark as lt gov of ark?

Let him prove he is a dem and governs like a dem.

[youngred]

156. huh?

so what, he's giving a comparison between Generals good and bad. Did you even read the list?

Clark isn't going to take over eveything

[Hope4]

163. Just let him run for lt gov of ark

Do like the others and show us not talk about it.

Why does he jump over many others and walk in.

[Qutzupalotl]

197. How about letting the primary voters decide?

Or is that too democratic of a concept for you?

[TLM]

97. Is he a medical doctor?

[neuvocat]

101. Is Dean a West Point Graduate?

The military academies can be harder to get into than Harvard.

[Hope4]

133. The difference they do not see

Dean and the rest have worked hard and come up the ranks. What gives him the right to come in and try for the top?

Join us, support one of the others and run for lt gov of ark. Show us there he can run a campaign and get elected and govern.

That is all I am saying.

Everything with his background is smoke and mirrors.

I have posted I am a viet nam vet of several tours there and I get mad when they attack dean on nam or bush or gore.

As long as you did not side with the commies, you did what was right.

I ski and wish I was with dean not in the monsoon.

[neuvocat]

144. Clark was drafted

and therefore asked by a large number of people to run. There was a movement being organized long before he announced his run. That being said, what you imply in some ways is that Clark shouldn't run if he's going to be successful.

And yes, I am glad Dean did not go to Viet Nam. I am glad for anyone who didn't have to go.

I also don't see how people can think that if Dean could ski then he could go to war. Apples and oranges.

Dean no doubt would make a fine president. I choose to support Clark for my own reasons the same way that people choose to support Dean (or any other candidate for that matter).

That's why I don't care for ANY sort of candidate bashing and damn sure won't allow that to happen to who I support, regardless of whether it may be Clark now-or possibly Dean in the future.

[Hope4]

157. Wake up to powerful men controlling things

Dean had the power to get out of it and ski. Good.

Gore did dad did the same for him.

Fulbright help clinton out.

It is part of power.

I have a lot of my vet friends get mad at me for saying I do not care about others who ran to canada, did anything to get out of it. I only will stand up against the fonda types that stood with the enemy.

Clark can come in but not at the top. Prove himself first. It is all smoke and mirrors what he states.

[neuvocat]

166. Ok then...

What did you think of Eisenhower? Does Clark fall short in comparison to "Ike"? I figure that your perspective is more qualified than mine.

[Hope4]

174. I thought we are dems not repubs

Ike was not fired. He ran the whole thing my friend and was a five star.

Clark is welcome, let him run for lt gov of ark and show us. What is wrong with that?

You clark people love the repub party and must go to them.

That is the problem, we have great leaders as dems running and you want to got outside.

[neuvocat]

181. HEY I'M TRYING TO ASK YOU A CIVIL QUESTION HERE!!!

And you can't even do that!!!!

God, I thought that you could share something valuable with the benefit of your having seen some recent history that could shed light on this, but hell no!

I'm asking you to compare Clark to Eisenhower and your answer is that I must be some sort of republican. You know what, you can get banned for that. I was a mod here one time, so I happen to know.



Geez, you make an assertion then you don't even have any reasons to back up what you say. On top of that, your grammar sucks. Pathetic.

[Hope4]

189. I did not say you were a repub, just you use a repub example

Stick with dems. Clark is a rookie and not in the class of Ike. He needs to go to the minors and prove to us he is an all star.

We have plenty of good people.

[neuvocat]

200. You clark people love the repub party and must go to them.

That's your quote.

You know I really hope you aren't seriously rooting for someone else because they'd be embarassed to know you were one of their supporters.

[Bread and Circus]

180. No, but I am.....so, what's your point?

[Paulie]

108. SO WHAT! He's no Lt. Col. John Boyd!!!!!!

One of the reasons I don't trust Clark is BECAUSE he had so many stars on his shoulders. You don't make it to high rank in the military unless you play ball with the system. And the system is broken bigtime.

Lt. Col John Boyd, now there is someone who should have been General. Greatest military thinker of the 20th century, and probably the 21st century. But Boyd never played by THEIR rules, so they forced him out.

When Boyd died, he was made an HONORARY U.S. MARINE, for his theories and implementation on manuver warfare. Not bad for a USAF officer, eh? It was Boyd who was doing the strategy for GW1, too bad the dinosaurs in command couldn't handle thinking outside their cold war box. It was Boyd who came up with the F-15 and the F-16, putting his theories into practice.

Wes Clark has done WHAT again? (shakes head)


Some books:

Boyd, Robert Coram. Boyd the person.

The Mind of War, Grant Hammond. Boyd the strategist. Recommend you read them both.

The Pentagon Wars, Col Jim Burton, USAF, ret. A Boyd acolyte took on the US Army and soldiers are alive today because of it. My advice: Read the book, skip the movie.

[neuvocat]

118. Oh I get it.

The Clark/Dean comparison doesn't fly so you have to compare Clark to someone else in order to bash him. Hey guess what?

COLONEL BOYD ISN'T RUNNING FOR PRESIDENT!!!! IF HE WERE THEN I MIGHT VOTE FOR HIM INSTEAD!!!!

Next time put some effort into staying on topic.

[Paulie]

121. OH PLEASE!

Your canidate is perfect, eh?

You're telling us that because he is a smart GENERAL, that he's kick ass. Here I go and point out a Lt. Colonel who could kick his ass six ways to sunday AS A GENERAL.

Clark *MAY* be kick ass a President, but he's not THE SHIT when it comes to inteligence, thinking, warfare.

Saying he's a great man because of some stars on his shoulders is a BULLSHIT reason to support him.

How about trying some policy points instead, might get more headway....

[Qutzupalotl]

123. Being a kick-ass President is what counts here.

Anyway, he did all right in Bosnia and Kosovo, didn't he?

[neuvocat]

129. Excuse you!

Where did I say in any of my posts here in DU that Clark was perfect? Didn't I just point out that I might have voted for someone else if I thought there was a better choice? Try looking a couple of posts above yours for an answer.

You compare Clark to another military man, which has no relevance in this thread. You really need to try to stay on topic.

[Paulie]

140. Here's the TOPIC

Wesley Clark--One Of The Smartest Generals In U.S. History
Edited on Fri Dec-12-03 07:24 PM by in_cog_ni_to

Here is one reason we have been given the GIFT of Wes Clark....he is BRILLIANT! There is no doubt that this man can learn everything he needs to learn about Domestic issues and learn it FAST. I thought this was very telling.


There is a better choice, any canidate with an actual RECORD. :p :p :p

[neuvocat]

145. Yes, ONE OF the smartest GENERALS

of course you still stay off topic and then stick your tongue out at me. How intelligent you are.

[mikehiggins]

124. True enough, Paulie, but he's no Hyman Rickover either.

Rickover was the ADMIRAL who fathered the US nuclear submarine fleet and bucked a lot of bigger admirals to do it.

And, of course, there was Patton, a well known team player from WWII

And all sorts of others.

But my favorite example of someone working his way up the ranks and then making a move that defined himself, and changed the world wasn't a military man at all. It was Michael Gorbachev, whom I had the pleasure of meeting very briefly in NYC a few years back.

He got to the top in the toughest team-player system in the world, where losing your step could get you a bullet in the back of your head in a Moscow cell. When he got to the top he had the intelligence and guts to see what had to be done, and do it. The shut-down of the USSR resulted.

My point is you don't have to kiss ass to get ahead. You just have to know how to play the game. When Clark got to a point where he had to choose between what he thought was right, and what the team wanted, he went with his principles and tried to prevent genocide in the Balkans. And after he won, he was forced to retire.

Sounds like a man to me, and someone who'd be a great president at this time, in this situation. If George Bush wasn't President and the US wasn't hell bent on self-destruction I'd likely be working for Kerry, or even Dean. Things are what they are, however, and beating Bush takes precedent over everything.

I think Boyd would understand and agree. What do you think?

[Paulie]

134. Oh I agree... it's just the love fest that Clark was a GENERAL....

...that tweaks my nose. :) We all have our favorites, but being a fan of someone is one thing, it's quite another to ignore the failings of your hero of the moment.

There are plenty of great men, unsung heros, that did the right thing, for their family, nation or humanity itself. They didn't want credit, they didn't want to run for President.

It's the whole "Clark was a General, he's really really smart" don't mean squat to someone like myself, who votes on the issues. So far, all I see from the majority of Clark supporters is fluff, and NO RECORD ON ISSUES, because he HAS NO RECORD. So they fall back on stuff that doesn't show me where he is on the issues. I get the general impression he's to the left of Dean, which could mean what? I think Bernie Sanders is a Moderate! :)

Maybe he will be President, maybe he's the right choice, but Clark nothing overly special, JUST BECAUSE HE WAS A GENERAL, A RHODES SCHOLAR, or anything else!

[neuvocat]

147. On the other hand

all you see are stars on his shoulder and that's reason enough for you to hate him and bash his supporters.

[Paulie]

171. All I can see is STARS

since I can't see any record. Sorry, it's not my fault that he never ran for office before.

And please, I don't BASH, I debate. I'd give you an example, but I don't wish to test the new posting rules. :p :p :p

[Hope4]

176. They want to you to bow down they are from one of the power groups

I love to have clark as a dem.

Not one will answer why he cannot run for lt gov of ark and show us?

It is all talk from him, no record and lots of problems we have to face with him. He will also turn many over to Nader. Watch.

Prove to us you can win, govern and move up.

But they want you to bow down to the idol stars on his uniform.

Since he was fired, does he still have the stars?

[Qutzupalotl]

210. You know that's a lie.

Since he was fired, does he still have the stars?
He was asked to retire early, then it was leaked to the press. OF COURSE he still has his stars, and his medals. And his integrity, unlike you.

Not one will answer why he cannot run for lt gov of ark and show us?
His talents would be wasted in a Lt. Governor position. He wants to turn around the Bush doctrine that's caused the world so much grief. Who better to do that credibly?

[Qutzupalotl]

211. You know that's a lie.

Since he was fired, does he still have the stars?
He was asked to retire early, then it was leaked to the press. OF COURSE he still has his stars, and his medals. And his integrity, unlike you.

Not one will answer why he cannot run for lt gov of ark and show us?
His talents would be wasted in a Lt. Governor position. He wants to turn around the Bush doctrine that's caused the world so much grief. Who better to do that credibly?

[neuvocat]

195. What debate?

I pointed out that you're prejudiced against Clark and you just agreed with me.

If your idea of debating is to prove your opponent right then you did very well. Congratulations.

[Paulie]

202. Please....

Do yourself a favor, and declare victory and go home. It's embarrasing for you to continue. I did nothing of the kind, I was being REASONABLE.

Debate would require COMPREHENSION beyond my side of the discussion, something I've noticed that is MISSING.

[neuvocat]

208. Please

You admitted yourself you can't see past those stars on Clark's shoulders and now you try to deny it.

You also said: "Debate would require COMPREHENSION beyond my side of the discussion, something I've noticed that is MISSING."

That is also correct, seeing as how you're stuck behind your admitted prejudice.

[in_cog_ni_to]

234. Since this is a thread about how smart he is.......

maybe that is why the entire thread is about THAT particular subject? :) Just a guess. There's been 100's of threads on Clark's position on issues.....this thread is about his intelligience.

Here's his web site if you would like to learn more.

http://www.americansforclark.com/

http://clark04.com/issues/

[in_cog_ni_to]

238. Please, read what I wrote.

Here is one reason we have been given the GIFT of Wes Clark....he is BRILLIANT! There is no doubt that this man can learn everything he needs to learn about Domestic issues and learn it FAST. I thought this was very telling.

[JVS]

138. William Sherman was smarter

[Paulie]

141. The list would be ENDLESS

That's the point. He's bright, he's smart, but he isn't a SAINTED GIFT, like the original poster claims.

[neuvocat]

227. Uh, HELLO!!!!

He didn't say "Sainted Gift", he said "Brilliant"!!!!! HELLOOO!!!

[in_cog_ni_to]

240. Excuse me?

Where did I say he was a "SAINTED GIFT?"

Here, I'll help you. THIS is what I said

Here is one reason we have been given the GIFT of Wes Clark....he is BRILLIANT! There is no doubt that this man can learn everything he needs to learn about Domestic issues and learn it FAST. I thought this was very telling.

I don't see that I said what you said I said.

[littlejoe]

149. Although I believe a brilliant mind

should be a prerequisite for the nation's top job, that, in itself is not enough reason to support a man for president.

[Jack_Dawson]

152. Brilliant vs. Bush

Uhhh...yes it is. But besides that, his views are in line with that of a moderate to liberal democrat.

[Hope4]

161. over the weeks his views change

He has no track record, get him elected to a lower job and show us.

[littlejoe]

168. My brother has a brilliant mind,

but I wouldn't want him for president.

[littlejoe]

169. You have to do better than, Ugggh, yeah it is!

[Jack_Dawson]

184. Clark v. Bush

Do you mean to tell me Bush would make a better president than Clark? That even though Clark's never held elective office you think he could actually do WORSE than Bush? Against a mentally inferior president, yes brains alone DO merit a vote. But luckily for us, Wes Clark is the whole package. Oh that's right, Howard Dean. Well...what is it Dean brings that Clark doesn't? The "experience" of governing a state with a population smaller than San Francisco? C'mon now.

[Hope4]

154. I agree, add to it a track record of doing what you say

Clark to me is all hot air until I see him do it.

Run for lt gov and come back and show us.

[ajacobson]

175. 14% of presidents elected with no prior office

Check it out.

Have a nice day.

[Paulie]

177. That's fine!

But he's running against people WITH a record. Not that it means anything to the electorate, but for activists and people who are multi-issue voters, having NO record mean we just have to take a person's word that he'll be fine. A "Uniter, not a divider" type thing.

Sorry, it's not enough. That's what the primaries give us though, a chance to see some intangables. But POLICIES matter, along with trust.

[Hope4]

182. Note he does not tell you who they were

Could have been are worst leaders.

Folks, FDR came up the ranks, never was a general and sure knew how to hire them and fight an enemy.

That is what we need now and have a list of great people and do not need a rookie. Welcome him and send him to the minors.

[wyldwolf]

206. You've been doing a little "not telling who they are" yourself...

...so, the list of "generals America loves" that are going to "eat Clark alive?"

[ajacobson]

235. From my blog at Clark Community Network

Here's a post I made to Democratic Underground on the question of the pragmatism of electing someone who never held lower office:

Here is a list of all the Presidents who never were elected to lower office. This doesn't mean that they didn't have government experience, some were generals, some were appointed officials, one (Arthur) was elected VP without previous elected office and became president with the death of Garfield.

Zachary Taylor
Ulysses S. Grant
Chester A. Arthur
William Howard Taft
Herbert Hoover
Dwight D. Eisenhower

So, it is uncommon but not unheard of (14%-6 of 43), to elect a President who never held a lower _elected_ office.
******************
Opinions about the quality of these individuals is another debate. I'm just stating a fact that there is some precedent in American politics for some people to get elected President without being elected dog catcher first.

[neuvocat]

219. So did that other 14%

but I guess exceptions need to be made for Clark.

sigh...

[in_cog_ni_to]

242. I never said it was.

did I?

[Hope4]

173. Hillary link requested

I was attack for something I told the poster was not me but maybe he was thinking of Hillary.

He said I was taking it from a right wing something. No it was from her book. Here is the link and I did not raise the issue on this post and it had nothing to do with the post but he thought lying about me would work.

http://www.cnn.com/US/9606/22/hillary.book/

[bicentennial_baby]

178. Bwahahahaha!

Um, no, it was from a book by Bob Woodward...

[Name removed]

225. Deleted message

Message removed by moderator. Click here to review the message board rules.

[BootinUp]

209. I read part way down and couldn't remember what the thread was about!

Jeebus! Can someone stop the spammer!

[maddezmom]

216. couldn't agree with you more and just for the record

What's the difference between a spammer and a disruptor? Just so I understand.

[joanski01]

214. Thanks for the good

information, incognito. I didn't bother to read the junk that followed.

[IndianaGreen]

221. I think George C. Marshall is head and shoulders above Wes Clark.

While I understand your enthusiasm for Clark, I think you missed the point that some of the best generals in our nation history did not attend West Point, and some that did, were not that distinguished when they graduated.

I think George C. Marshall is head and shoulders above Wes Clark, not just in terms of his military record, but in his even more impressive accomplishments as a public servant.

General Douglas MacArthur, who graduated first in his class, and unlike Clark, was a Medal of Honor recipient, totally miscalculated the Japanese threat to the Philippines in 1941, and the threat of China's intervention in the Korean War.

[Tom Rinaldo]

249. Marshall was great

But Marshall was given his chance to make a real difference, which he did. We won't know what Clark can contribute untill he is given a chance also. I think of Marshall more than anyone else when I look at Clark entering the public sphere after his military career.

[BonjourUSA]

245. Am I wrong ?

for being in the US-Generals-Awards, a general has had to make war,
And a good general who had made war is a good president.
All the good presidents are good generals who made war.

Socrate

[arewethereyet]

250. thats really lovely but it proves nothing

it demonstrates his relative position to his peers in that year alone but in no way gives any indication of his place across graduating classes.

Not saying he isn't smart, perhaps very smart but this gives no analysis.

[SharonAnn]

254. Just saw him here in Knoxville a couple of hours ago. He

was lookin' good. Had a good crowd (several hundred of us plebians) for the rally and then private meetings with the donors and political bigwigs.

He spent a little time with just the veterans - and that went over great! They love him!

[Crewleader]

261. Thanks SharonAnn

We all love him and need him for this country!

He's the only one to beat Bush...the media is selling Howard Dean as much as they can along with the Gore endorsement but he's not the one to do it, he would show weakness in the area most Americans are concern with.Bush would eat him up in a debate.Our National Security is not Bush's National Security , we are losing our rights, and the secrecy this adminstrations has, they are getting away with murder.The corporations are no longer liable, everything is hush hush....example, you won't hear of Firestone tires ever being a problem or any other products, not with the protection of finding who to ask. Just now a leak about Halabutrin and over charging taxpayers 61 million more then they suppose to.They are making too much money and no bid contracts is the result.
Iraq and the exit out of there, under General Wesley Clark we will have that without him, we won't.Another four years with Bush and we will be debt with our great grant kid's kids!!!

Listening tonight on this news about the day Bush had to have hand picked and really screen soldiers to meet him that two hours he spent on Thanksgiving for publicity as the War time President. Couldn't take a chance and have fair and balanced attitudes of soldiers surrounding him, for his own security, that speaks volumes.

General Wesley Clark will be there for the men and women of the United State Forces And Walk Among Them Shaking Their Hands Anytime Anywhere, He's A True Commander And Chief Like He Will Be For The American People!
And get us out from under this Bush adminstration that is taking everything away from us, the very thing many soldiers died fighting for...Our Freedom!!!

God Protect You General Wesley Clark and God Bless America!

[roguevalley]

265. This thread is a hoot.

Let me see:

rhodes scholar

first in class at academy, a very tough vehicle to graduate from.

thirty-five years of all kinds of hands-on experience in leading, diplomacy, running a huge corporate base here and there, teaching,
combat and war, negotiating peace.

Is going to help by his testimony to put a genocidal dictator in the can. Forever, I hope.

speaks four languages. Besides English.

economics and philosophy major from Oxford (or Cambridge, I forget
which one) :) Shoot me. ;0)

married and a father of son(s)

good to people under his command when they needed his help, something they aren't afraid to reciprocate to this day.

demanding high standards of people in his command because it was expected, because it was needed, because he expects it of himself

personally filled with courage <rappelling down the hillside in Kosovo in midst of live fire to help people hurt> and humble enough that the world had to find out about the truth of it in another man's book.

learned about how hard it is to make a living, yet stayed in the military and didn't take the easy way out: a man with his qualifications could have been a gazillionaire like the rest of the clack running the country into the ground but 'kept the faith' and remained in the military

earned the loyalty of enlisted and officers alike

not afraid to go over the heads of the hidebound dummies in charge of the Kosovo war to save 1.5 million people's lives. <Of course, this is worthless compared to the 72.9 million people he's personally responsible for killing with his own bare hands> <joke>

was drafted out of a happy retirement because he cares about the country and its plight and wants his grandson to have a good life some day.

patiently is laying out his vision, which is there to read unless you don't want to. remember, knowledge is power. read it. :)

took four rounds during Nam and still stayed in the army.

knows enough about war first hand to hate it and prevent it in a way that a tinhorn dipshit like most of the republican party can never know.

faithfully and happily married to a nice, smart woman.

loves and supports his children's aspirations, even if they give him the heebie jeebies for long term employment possibilities (his son
is a screenwriter)

got every kind of civilian and military award around, from this government and dozens of others.

Has friends all over the world, high and low and commands the respect of others which he has earned by his efforts, grace and smarts.

Chose to enter the inferno of political office because he believed the country needed him. again.

Yeah. I can see how this might not be enough.

[in_cog_ni_to]

266. Great post!

but, but, but......HE HASN'T BEEN A DEMOCRAT LONG ENOUGH! :eyes:

[OKNancy]

264. The Long Grey Line

( I hate these long threads)

Has anyone actually read the book "THe Long Grey Line" by Rick Atkinson? It's about Clark's class of 1966 - how they lost the most lives in Vietnam, etc. Clark was mention frequently in the book and was called brilliant and intense.

[Moderator]

269. I am locking this thread.

There are many personal attacks. Please feel free to repost.


DU Moderator