What should be done in Iraq?

[ludwigb]

Coming from someone who opposed the war, I recently realized I have no real opinion about what we should do now. I find the arguments that we should at least stay long enough to give democracy a chance fairly obvious, but I cringe at the reality that some 8 months after Saddam's overthrow, there is still no concrete plan for democracy in Iraq. I'm tired of the banality of the "We can't just leave Iraq" cliche--of course it is true, but it is only legitimate insofar as it comes along with real opinions about what we should be accomplishing there.

And then there is the legal and moral illegitimacy of the occupation--to what extent does this implicitly undermine our efforts? What role does (or should) moral justification play in making policy desciions about what to do in Iraq? Can we speak of moral duties owed to the Iraqi people?

The UN option seems to be a non-starter. Whoever's fault it actually is (obviously I think Bush deserves a lot of it, but naturally the Europeans aren't exactly moral or military powerhouses either), it doesn't seem that we can count on being relieved by the UN, who, incidentally, can't even round up troops for Afghanistan.

If we stay should stay, how long? What exactly are our goals there? Can we be satisfied with simply errecting a relatively civilized government, or does it have to be a real democracy? Is a Shiite dominated state possibly allied with Iran really an unacceptable option? If it devolves into civil war do we go back in?

Finally, am I asking the wrong questions? What is the relationship between buisness interests and our Iraq policy? Short term and long term strategic interest? Ideological interests?

What the hell is going on and what should we do?

[mmonk]

1. I say

let them vote.

[soothsayer]

2. the UN wouldn't need troops, per se, for nation building

I think (but could be wrong) that the fighting in Iraq is against the aggressors who are occupying the country, whereas the UN is NOT an aggressor nor an occupying force.

[Mattforclark]

4. That's a nice theory

Don't count on it though.

[corporatewhore]

3. support our troops bring them home

the occupation is illegal.Americans and iraqis our suffering for i.Let us pay reperations and help rebuild everything that we bombed. Maybe the un can help with rebuilding the government they ar LEGITMATE.Or what about iraqi self determination.There is no reason we need to be there.we're knee deep in the big muddy and the big fool tells us to push on

[CityZen-X]

5. Democracy vs. History

How can we impose a concept of democracy (less than 200-yrs) on a culture that has survived on the opposite of, for thousands of years?
"there's nothing like the feel of something brand new" (Nine Inch Nails)."

[JailBush]

6. We have to do everything we can to help the Iraqis and

everything we can to PUNISH those who are behind this disgusting war. How to help the Iraqis is a complex question, but it includes the following:

1. Let them vote.

2. Call off our dogs of war.

3. Encourage them to ask for assistance, and try to honor their requests.

4. Encourage other nations to help out - after apologizing for our disgraceful conduct and giving Haliburton the boot.

[ludwigb]

14. I'm pretty sympathetic...

to this "Let Them Vote" position, even though I doubt a fully honest vote can be conducted (not an easy task, as we see here in the States). Still, if we give something close to a real vote, and the Shiites win and are able to form a government, at least we will look good. We can claim to have brought democracy to Iraq and the Shiites may even be grateful. This might help improve relations to Iran and Syria.

I still believe this whole catastrophe might actually still be turned into a good thing on the balance with the right leadership. But unfortunatly the situation just can't wait for a new president. It's time to stop pushing our luck.

[m-jean03]

7. Policing, keeping the streets safe?

I've heard people say that this is one reason why we need to stay, and if we left, they say, there would be an increase in rape/kidnapping/robbery.

But can't our forces train a sufficient Iraqi police force to keep order more successfully than we who are resented as occupiers/infidels?

[RBHam]

8. Google search Kucinich's Plan to get out of Iraq

The best plan laid out. That is, if the US is willing to allow the UN to completely take over and manage the oil reserves.

Ain't gonna happen though.

[Tierra_y_Libertad]

9. Under international supervision, fair elections should be held

and let the Iraqis decide their own fate. It's called democracy.

[MrPrax]

10. You've set up your own strawmen...?

The UN is an option because they are not military enough...suggesting that you figure a military solution is best to bring about an acceptable democracy...?

"What is the relationship between buisness interests and our Iraq policy? Short term and long term strategic interest? Ideological interests?"

The US and it's allies business arrangements are in sharp divergence to the self-interests of the Iraqi people (or any people--including Americans given that the same scum running the US gov't here are doing a shitty job--why would anyone expect them to do better in a foreign largely Islamic nation)

If the US was smart it would bring back the UN unconditionally with a strong arab nation component...and spend cash on food, medicine and immediate relief projects...
Nothing the US is doing or will do, will bring about anything that the Iraqi people will accept...

[delhurgo]

11. You probably already know this, but I'll say it anyhow:...

...The real purpose of the war was to try to create a democracy with civil liberties in the center of the middle east - to as great a degree as possible. The hope is that a democratic, free Iraq will have influence on the rest of the region and spread to neighboring countries: Iran, Syria, maybe even Saudi Arabia,... The lives of the people there would then improve and religious fanaticism/terrorism would lose its appeal. I have gone back and forth on whether this was a good idea or not because it seems hard to believe that the people there, with their history of dictators and theocrats, would choose our western style of government. But there is the example of Turkey, which is overwhelmingly Arab/Islamic, but has modernized. And the people in Iran, especially the young, desperately want to be free of the mullahs. So maybe it can work. And if it does thats to our benefit and to the benifit of all the people in that region. No doubt its a gamble; it could fail. At least though we've ridded ourselves of Saddam who did have reason for revenge against us because of Desert Storm.

What we should do is whats in our own best interest. That means helping the Iraqi people stabilize their country and set up a gov't that will be friendly to us. But no more puppet regimes; a gov't of, by, and for the iraqi people. Sounds idealistic I know, but we can hope. How long will this take? I have no idea, and I dont think the Bush Admin does either. We definitely shouldnt pull out prematurely though. The last thing we want is for the fundamentalists to take control and turn Iraq into an Islamic Theocracy. That would be even worse then Saddam and play right into Osama's hands.

[bobbyboucher]

12. Easy

Use our reduced armed forces capabilities for emergency back-up from bases away from population centers, not the airport but further out and in four or so strategic points. Open up the rebuilding contract bidding to the whole world. Put the UN in charge of elections and whatever else they can handle. Let a coalition handle security under the UN banner while building a police force and small military. Refinance their debt through a nuetral party, get rid of some of it. And the rest of us get the fuck out.

And I forgot, get the Iraqis in control of their oil so that some money can come in.

[ludwigb]

13. The problem is...

who do you give control of the oil to? If we allow the Iraqis to rebuild a police force and military, who controls it? Then how does one administer elections?

In the case of the elections, the UN could probably help, assuming Iraq is relatively stable. But what happens when the powers controlling the military are ousted?

It's a f-ing complicateed situation.

[NNN0LHI]

15. We do NOW what we are going to do sooner or later anyway

Hand the keys of the country to the first person with an AK-47 and run like a motherscratcher.

Don