NDP's Jack Layton: "I'm proud to call myself a socialist"

[Minstrel Boy]

For Canadian DUers of an NDP bent and you curious others, there's an interview with the leader of Canada's second most popular political party (so say recent polls) in the November/December issue of Canadian Dimension, online here (though evidently not proofread after being scanned in): http://www.canadiandimension.mb.ca/v37/v37_6gp.htm

You American progressives who think Paul Martin is the cat's freepin' pajamas, you don't know Jack. ;)

Some quotes:

"Socialist? I'm proud to call myself a socialist. I prefer it by far to democratic socialist."

...

"Most people glaze over whenever you talk about NAFTA or the WTO or the FTAA. We're going to have to find ways of getting people agitated about it. I think the piece that's going to work people up about NAFTA is the energy provision that says even if we need the fuel, we're obligated to send it to the U.S. over and above our own need. We have to create the awareness about the impact of these trade deals. That's what the run-up to the federal election campaign is all about. We're working very close with the Council of Canadians and with Mel Hurtig, anyone working on this question. Fortunately, NAFTA is coming up for renewal. So we will have a chance to go in and say here are five changes we absolutely must have. And these have to be real killer changes, so fundamental that it would no longer be NAFTA. It would be something else. And we use this to shift public opinion around NAFTA. My hope is that we can get there between now and April.

...

"...if we go down that road and we're attacked by people who say it will hurt our economy and here's how, we have to anticipate this and we have to counter with an industrial strategy. Canada has no industrial strategy now. Globalization does not allow it. The free-market decides. What we say is no, there shall be a strategy around housing, around food, energy, transportation and proactive investment in these strategies. The interesting thing is that there are lots of Americans who agree with us and we're forming alliances with these people. Not only there, but in Mexico, Brazil, Venezuela. I think that what went on in Cancun is very interesting. What did Lula call it? The axis of evil versus the axis of good. We're going to make some of those linkages. You absolutely can't do this alone in Canada. But there are some very interesting possibilities."

[Sugarbleus]

1. Well done.... n/t

[Maple]

2. Socialism

is dead.

Stone cold...dead.

[SeveneightyWhoa]

3. LOL..not quite.

Maybe you're confusing it with Communism? I know that one's pretty much non-living.

[Maple]

4. No

Communism and socialism are both dead.

Canada is a mixed economy...Third Way.

Like most western countries.

Neither capitalist nor socialist.

Centrist.

Practical solutions..public or private...to everyday problems.

No ideology.

Cold war is over.

[SeveneightyWhoa]

5. Who said Canada was socialist?

The movement just isn't dead yet. Socialism is strong worldwide. Aren't there a few Scandinavian socialist nations, ie. Sweden?

[Minstrel Boy]

6. "No ideology"

There's always an ideology. Even when it doesn't want to draw attention to itself, and asserts it's nothing but common, practical sense.

[Maple]

7. Sweden is not socialist

and no, there isn't always an ideology.

Damn fool nonsense in fact, and no way to govern a country.

[cryofan]

8. But what about democratic socialism?

Basically like what you have in western Europe? That way, even though incomes are highly taxed, and you have a welfare state, it works out as a better welfare state than what you ever had in Russia. Why? Well, because you are still using capitalism. You still have private property and corporations and consumer goods and more importantly, a citizen can still work harder and be creative in a private enterprise sort of way in order to obtain an extra amount of income that can serve to distinguish him from his fellow citizens.

You see that part of it is really the big advantage of social democracy over socialism. It really takes advantage of the competitive sexual and social status instincts and drives of the human critter. Too way out for you? Let's think about it.....

Really, what is happening, I think, in the social democracies of W Europe, is that the society as a whole is pulling an anti-Randesque "atlas shrugged" manuever. Yes, those driven people who create successful endeavors in order to achieve greater social status and get laid and prove their worth as parents, are indeed being taken advantage of by the social democracies, at least more so than here in America.

That ability of the social democracy to tap into that drive is what gives them the income to have a sustainable welfare state. Really, it is the males age 18-45 who are probably providing much of the drive that separates the social democracies from the socialist nations. THey are tapping those primitive social drives. And it works, even though the marginal return on the effort is less than it is in the USA. Still, that added income serves to distinguish the harder worker/more talented/more biochemically or genetically fit citizen from those around him. And the social democracy derives extra income for it....whereas the socialist nation did not.

[Maple]

9. Exactly

Third Way

"it works out as a better welfare state than what you ever had in Russia. Why? Well, because you are still using capitalism. You still have private property and corporations and consumer goods and more importantly, a citizen can still work harder and be creative in a private enterprise sort of way in order to obtain an extra amount of income that can serve to distinguish him from his fellow citizens.

You see that part of it is really the big advantage of social democracy over socialism. "

[Myra]

19. Socialism isn't exactly thriving in the US

But it's not dead in countries with more than one political party.

[RBHam]

10. Jack Layton is the man

And the NDP is my party.

:toast:

We're going to make Paul Martin stay honest.

[SeveneightyWhoa]

11. I'm no big fan of the NDP..

..but I'd prefer that they were the opposition party rather than the Alliance (or whatever they'll be called soon).

[RBHam]

12. yep

The NDP will probably never hold power, but they act as the compassionate social conscience on Prliament. They keep the Liberals from straying too far right.

[Minstrel Boy]

13. never say never!

The NDP won a majority government in Ontario a dozen years ago. What Bob Rae did to squander it is another matter. The fact remains, we won Ontario. And Layton is just the leader, I think, to win back disaffected supporters. Especially without a credible "social conservative" challenge, and Martin taking the Liberals further right.

Plus, the NDP has a popular government in Manitoba, was just reelected in Saskatchewan, and is the most popular party in Nova Scotia, a province which elected its first federal NDPer in 1997.

Naturally the NDP won't form the government next election, but I think Layton will demonstrate he's fit to govern, and lead us to our best ever federal showing: 45+ seats. Perhaps, best case, with a minority Liberal government.

[LeftistGorilla]

14. It might be too late for that....

as Martin is probably the most right leaning Liberal PM seen so far...

[Minstrel Boy]

15. now that's grassroots: former Marijuana Party leader to run for the NDP

Ex-Marijuana Party leader to run for NDP in federal election
December 13

Dana Larsen — buoyed by federal New Democrat leader Jack Layton’s call to legalize marijuana —is planning to run for the West Vancouver-Sunshine Coast seat under the NDP banner.

...

After signing his NDP membership papers Nov. 27 in Powell River, Larsen said he decided to change parties after Layton’s declaration that he supports the legalization of marijuana in Canada.

But that’s not the only reason Larsen decided to switch.

“I am also impressed by their commitment to Canadian sovereignty, their active support for proportional representation and their willingness to seek innovative solutions to tough problems. Jack Layton had an excellent record on Toronto City Council, and I am inspired by his leadership and integrity."

http://www.whistlerquestion.com/madison%5CWQuestion.nsf/WQnews/DF1B491CC7B86F7688256DF9007E617F?OpenDocument

[Spazito]

16. I like Jack Layton...

and I think his decision to go across the country to introduce himself rather than to force a bi-election speaks well for him. I sincerely hope that the NDP becomes the official opposition as they will hold the Liberal's (and I am one) to the fire and hold them to the center if not force them a little more left.

[Lisa]

17. I got to meet him a couple of months ago ...

Smart guy. Does he ever know how to win people over! Came across as being humble and honest, and went out of his way to praise all the people working for him locally and on the shadow cabinet team in Ottawa (many of the latter were his opponents in the leadership contest).

[reknewcomer]

18. I have no problem with socialism

As long as if I choose to work harder to earn more and afford more comforts I get to keep them and not hand it over to those that choose to work less. Is that ok?

[BeFree]

20. NAFTA going down?

"...it would no longer be NAFTA.
AND:
What did Lula call it? The axis of evil versus the axis of good."

I didn't know that.... NAFTA is going thru some changes?
Who's on the "axis of good", this time?

BTW Maple: Socialism is not dead... we are partly socialist in the USA. Who do ya think pays for the roads, etc.? And what about Insurance companies.. ok, so they're capitalistic, but they are socialism grounded.