Where have all the textile companies gone??

[SoCalDem]

I found out that our soldiers are wearing FABRIC boots in near freezing temperatures and in heavy rainstorms almost nightly.. I googled military boots-satin (they are oddly enough made of satin).. I was hoping to find some specs on them and this page popped up..

While it did NOT address my search, it's an eye opener to those people who remember all the knitting and textile mills that USED to be in the USA and who employed LOTS of people..



http://www.ebigchina.com/prod_list.phtml?tlang=en&cu=0409&&cfg_max_rows=100

[w4rma]

1. China, India, Mexico, Korea, Indonesia... cheap labor countries. (n/t)

[HereSince1628]

2. I don't know what to be more concerned about

The friendliness of Bush's authoritarian regime to corporate exportation of american jobs, or the coming blowback when the middleclass realizes that the jobs they use to buy their retirment investments are being lost because their retirement was invested in "cheaper labor markets"

On the one hand its capitalist tyranny on the other its socialist revolution. Post-middlestandt American seems to be coming by hell or high water.

no sarcasm intended although I can hear myself asking please "pass the tin-foil,"

Historically, crisis in the middle class has led to some truly nightmarish solutions...I hope the nation has learned something from the lessons of the past.

[Yupster]

3. This has been going on since I was a kid in the 60's

I grew up in New York and there was a big campaign to "Look for the Union label" when buying clothes. This was an attempt to stop the garment district fleeing New York back then. It didn't work then either.

[HereSince1628]

5. In the 60's the jobs moved to other places in the US

I remember Elgin Watch Co. a company in a town by the same name that employed more than half my the town directly that left for South Carolina (they apparently renamed the town to maintain the tradition)

Now Corporations are abandoning the US labor market because although it is highly productive, it is expensive and comes with many other costly regulations (environmental etc.)

I don't think we've had a balanced trade with any country since the early '90s. That is capital flight.

The very interesting social phenomenon is that causing a national crisis can be excused by playing the "that's business" and democrats and republicans alike accept that. By the same logic, Al Capone, who made profits from bootlegging, should have been excused because after all...it was just business. A few deaths here and there maybe, but in general he contributed to the Chicago economy.

[Lars39]

7. Elgin Watch factory...... passed it on my way to kindergarten.

My mother used to work there, and helped my grandfather get a job there for a while, so he could send money back home to TN, where there were very few jobs to be had.

[Beaker]

22. I grew up in Elgin(the one in Illinois)

the watch factory is long gone, the foundry is long gone, Ackemann's is long gone, but they still make street-sweepers(NOT the full-auto 12 gauge kind) and they got themselves a big ol' gamblin' boat- the mainstay of their new economy.

[WhoCountsTheVotes]

9. wherever and however production and jobs go

If the middle class is cut out of prosperity in the US it's going to be very very bad. If you want to lay off Americans and sending production overseas, you better start issuing stocks of the companies directly to citizens, or there will be hell to pay.

[HFishbine]

4. Was talking to a man

at a Christmas party last night who's in the clothing business. Nearly all of their merchandise is imported (he rattled off about a dozen countries -- you know them.) His firm has basically become an importer/marketer. He told me that even the value-added stuff (embroidery, silk screening) is about to be shipped off shore.

As he pointed out, customers have come to expect a nine dollar golf shirt. If they'd pay twelve, he could manufacture them in America.

[w4rma]

8. It's going to require regulations to keep these industries here, IMHO.

And folks are going to have to accept a couple of dollars higher price on these items, to keep these resources in America, instead of being exported to other countires.

It's probably going to hurt, for folks who run these overseas factories and for folks whose jobs would be among the last to be exported, in the short-term, but it must be done for long-term, IMHO, to keep America strong and economically diversified.

[HereSince1628]

12. Weel, at least incentives, like tax-rebates for staying with us

I understand that business wants a profit. I understand that US labor is expensive. So, can we try to encourage business to stay by helping reduce some costs?

I have to believe that a national health care system would relieve at least as many costs to employers as the costs of the Kyoto accords.

[HFishbine]

14. That's a very good point!

Kill two birds with one stone. Why isn't a presidential candidate tying these two issues together?

[SoCalDem]

17. Why?? Because the corporations are getting free money now..

there is no limit to what they can make abroad, and there is no way that they will ever go back (willingly) to paying fair wages after they have been paying pennies an hour..

Remember too, that a lot of these companies ALREADY pay no taxes..

Punitive action needs to be taken against these rogue companies.. We tried the carrot (Nafta)..They ATE IT.. Now we need to use the STICK..

[HereSince1628]

20. Well, if its impossible see my post in # 2 that solution scares me

[snoochie]

21. I think at least Kucinich and Edwards have n/t

[Yupster]

25. But Kucinich

sticks the cost of the health insurance to the business.

Carol Mosley-Braun's healthcare proposal has the government paying for the universal insurance which would be a great productivity boom to businesses. Kucinich's proposal would put many small businesses (like my own) out of business.

[snoochie]

29. Now I know I've seen this addressed several times...

but again, Kucinich's plan would be phased in over 10 years.

He definitely understands the challenges small businesses face. Why do you think he wants to bust up monopolies?

And for those large companies already paying for partial or entire insurance premiums, the cost would be just the same as an immediate tax cut.

[SoCalDem]

10. The growth of so-called "outlet centers" has had an effect too

I grew up in retail.. My aunt had a women's specialty clothing store.. She had clothing that was exclusive to her store (so no one else in town had her brands). They were designer clothes and a bit pricey for those times.. But she had a loyal clientele, and the women who shopped there were willing to pay more to have something special..

Today's shoppers actually think that the "outlets" are full of designer stuff.. There may be a few gems in with the gravel, but most of the so-called outlet merchandise is made especially FOR them, by the major manufacturers..

A designer jacket that sells for several hundred dollars has finished seams inside and expert tailoring.. The manufacturer can have a "copy" of their own jacket done that LOOKS like and is the same material, but it is NOT the same quality.. They slap their label in it and hang a $300.00 "original price" tag on it with a new OUTLET price of , say...$75.00.. People buy these , thinking they have a designer jacket.. They do NOT.. They have a chinese made cheap knock-off that probably cost the manufacturer $12.00.. The twist here is that the SAME company produced BOTH items..

Cheap gets you....cheap..

Another irony.. In a department store, you might even find that $300 jacket marked down later for the same price or less than the outlet charges..

The sad fact is that Americans are on 2 tracks.. They want lots of stuff to choose from and they want it all at rock bottom prices, yet they complain about having to pay taxes.. What they miss , is the fact that cheap stuff translates into low wages for the people who make, ship, and sell the merchandise, and even though we may pay less for a particular product, we ARE paying more in the end because the things that well paid workers can do for themselves, are the same things that the lower paid and unemployed have to come to US for help with..

It's a "pay me now..or pay me later" proposition..

[snoochie]

6. Pakistan is a big provider, too

Free trade wouldn't be so bad, if it was to lift us all up instead of keep others down (or in our case, push us down from where we managed to claw and scratch our way up to).

[electricmonk]

11. The company I work for just gave us coats

with the company logo embroided on them. The coats were made in Burma so I'm sure they were dirt cheap.

Just did a quick google, even Wal-Mart won't import from Burma their human rights violations are so bad.

The company used to buy all American made machinery when it was family owned but after the founder retired they've been buying Korean made equipment.

[WhoCountsTheVotes]

13. Should we retrain textile workers to become computer programmers?

Or should we retrain computer programmers to become textile workers? Just curious.

[QC]

15. Or retrain both to be Wal-Mart greeters?

Scary thought, but it seems that just about the only jobs that cannot be "outsourced" are in retail, food service, and health care.

Everything else is fair game. Even accounting is being sent overseas.

Speaking of outsourcing, here's a hilarious article on the subject. http://www.theonion.com/3948/news2.html

[WhoCountsTheVotes]

18. oh my god that's hilarious

I'm going to post that in a thread!

[Liberal Veteran]

24. Here's another little tidbit of humor on outsourcing.

http://www.despair.com/discovery.html

[SoCalDem]

16. Good questions??

We have eliminated so many markets here, that retraining is not even an option anymore.. That is the real tragedy.. We are basically on a "death watch"..

The economy seems to be just hoping that the baby boomers will go quietly into the night.. (and be quick about it)..Once that happens, they are hoping for a compliant, scared, but smaller sized workforce..

Can you imagine what the workplace issues will be in 2020??

Factory/mill workers and other laborers were asked to retarin for the high tech fields in the 70's & 80's as their jobs moved south..(they were at least, still in the US)..

The 90's pulled the rug out from under the people who were left when jobs went to Mexico & Asia..

Whole industries have changed, and in less than a generation.. Think back to when there were whole buildings full of telephone operators and secretaries...humans worked in mills and factories, now they are robots..

Robots do not strike, need medical benefits, call in sick, take vacations, etc..

The "improvements" did not always "help" the worker..they REPLACED him/her..

Sadly, I do not see any real solutions.. We have sold/given the farm away, and I don't think we have the money to even try to buy it back :(

[HereSince1628]

19. IT is getting hit hard with job exportation...

The issue isn't that American workers are resistent to retraining or pursuing new industries. No one is saying or advocating that.

The problem is that for years American producers and consumer/employees operated in box defined in very large part by national borders. Consequently, prices and wages jacked each other up in a system where what seemed like a rising tide benefited both.

Now, the producer/job-providers find that regulatory and market conditions favor them moving production outside the geographic boundary. There really isn't much to retrain to pursue.

In the short term this is like playing teeter-totter and having one person jump off. The result is a devastating crash to the person on the other end.

And this isn't an international trend. Germany out-exports the US. It is only 1/3 the population of the US and as a social democracy rather than a neoliberal(free-reign capitalist) democracy labor costs and benefits are higher. The fact that Germany can do this should be an indication that the American system isn't working as well as it could.

[Kellanved]

26. not quite (although I agree in most issues)

You see: there is only one major textile factory/company left in Germany and the media praises the US-economy and its rules.

[SharonAnn]

33. And IT is being hit by Labor Importation with H1-B and L-2 visas

When you bring in someone and pay them less, you get them close to home and cheap.

Lots of it going on today. Companies in India "hire" someone that a company then "hires" and then brings to the U.S. on an L-2 visa.

Swell!

[Liberal Veteran]

23. This is easy...Just go through your closet and linen closet.

And look at the tags. You will be hard pressed to find anything that's made in the USA.

[Pastiche423]

27. More than any other issue

(since this one effects the rest), this is what our candidates should not only be addressing, but offering solutions. AND not solutions like sending more of our s/w to India.

We need massive restructuring in manufacturing/production/jobs. I entered the work force in the late sixties when "Made in the USA" was still being promoted as a GOOD thing.

Then in the 70's while working in wholesale apparel, I watched in trepidation as more and more goods were being manufactured in other countries, then imported to our soil.

Along came the 80's and the middleman (manufacturer's reps, like me) were pushed out to give the owners, CEO's, CFO's higher incomes.

Ah, and then the 90's where the discrepancy between the lowest workers and high management grew 25 fold.

Greed will kill us all, unless we demand change. Will it happen? Can it happen? Can we help make Krugman's voice louder?

[SoCalDem]

28. It's almost impossible to fiind stuff made entirely here..

Craft fairs are about the only way, and even then the raw materials for the crafts were probably sent from China

[HereSince1628]

30. I believe jobs can be an issue, but I am a little afraid of how

a populist movement will bring it about...

[kodi]

31. i've been in the textile industry for 30 years. this is what has happened

i started out working third shift in a dye house while still in high school and worked my way thru college working weekends in a dye house in philly. i have 2 degrees in textile science, a phd in polymer chemistry, have taught both undergrad and grad level courses in polymer chemistry and textiles at a major US university and have worked in this field almost my entire adult life.

in the 1970's-1980's the wealthy textile industry leaders backed republican politicians who then undermined textile labor unions and who then sacrificed the textile industry for foreign policies which allowed foreign imports to provide enough jobs to fight socialist movements in poor third world countries.

the US provided foreign loans to thoses countries which allowed them to build their infrastructure, viz., roads, water, utilities and communication networks which made it feasible for these countries to build competitive textile industries.

these places are india, china, pakistan, south-east asia, mexico, central america, and west africa.

the US then decided to provide loan garuentees to US companies to invest in foreign textile manufacturing plants, again, by using their influence in washington via republican politicians.

while this was happening the US government provided tax incentives to other industries in R & D such as pharmaceuticals, electronics, and computers while not providing the same tax incentives in the textile industry for domestic capital investments and R & D.

as a result, the knowledge flow in textiles from the first world economies, primarily the US, great britain and germany allowed for the the third world to capitalize on the research done in the first world to be used without indigenious investment from third world countries for obtaining this knowledge.


the third world countries sent to american universities their best students and they went back with this knowldge to build state of the art facilites that now compete with US, British and german textile companies.

i know this because i taught some of them as undergrads and graduate students from china, india, pakistan, viet nam, central america, nigeria, and ghana.

to paraphrase allan ginsburg's poem "Howl".....

"I watched the best minds of my industry go crazy and become unemployable due to foreign imports"

which is true, because i know dozens of 40-55 year old american polymer/textile scientists and textile engineers who have lost everything, their homes, wives and self respect when they could not find a job and who now work at the home depot, sell used cars or insurance, paint houses, and yes, now work at wal-mart, selling chinese made textiles, which are, believe it or not, made from technological advancements that they helped invent in the united states of america.

no one i know in this industry will vote for george bush again, count on it.

I'm one of the lucky ones who worked in the textile industry, in that i have skills outside the primary textile industry, consult in the primary chemical and polyemr industry and earn income from patent licenses.

if i kid of mine said they wanted to go into the textile industry, i would put a bullet in their heads.

[SoCalDem]

32. The 40-55 yr olds you speak of, are also hurting in EVERY other

industry.. It's so unfair on its face.. That age group "should be" at the top of their earning capacity, and after spending their young years learning a trade, they had the unions weakened and then their jobs yanked away.. It actually surprises me that the suicide rate is not higher..

The powers that be talk about re-training and going back to school.. That's pretty much a joke for most people that age.. They have OBLIGATIONS.. These people are not living in Mom & Dad's basement listening to music and working odd jobs.. They have house payments, car payments, braces to pay for.. The do not have the "extra time" to go to school. If they get laid off, they MUST find work...any work.. no matter how many crappy job sit takes...to pay their bills..

It's disgusting.. The CEO's just sit on their huge pile of money, and condemn decent hardworking people who guilt their business, to the dung heap..