Let's turn the heat up a little bit the "almost famous ad"

[Democrats unite]

There has been so much talk about this ad I thought everyone should be able to view it for themselves.

I am not offering an opinion one way or another just thought I would post so people could see it.

edit spelling

http://www.progressivevalues.com/images/flash/movie.wmv

[markus]

1. Whoa, not for us poor dial-up users

Is there a dial-up resolution version. Several minutes later and I'm at 3%

[IndianaGreen]

2. If you are still running Windows 98, you can't see it

Thank you Bill Gates for your build-in obsolescence.

[madfloridian]

3. There is a link at the Dean website.

I think it might be easier to view.

[Democrats unite]

4. Sorry markus, I wasn't thinking.

I have a cable modem & don't pay attention to speeds, just never thought about it.

[Walt Starr]

5. BULLSHIT!!!!!!

This is the ad, you're showing the wrong one:

http://www.progressivevalues.com/images/flash/movie2.wmv

[Democrats unite]

7. Excuse me Walt Star...

But I said almost famous ad. Your showing the famous ad.

[Devlzown]

8. So THAT'S it!

I was wondering what all this shit was about. That is a nasty ad.

[mikehiggins]

9. It hasn't gotten any better

This is vicious and while we can expect it from BushCo seeing it done by Democrats against Democrats is disgusting.

[Walt Starr]

13. That ad is why I am now for NBD

Nobody But Dean.

The ad you showed is positive, in my opinion. The stance on guns has always been my only sticking point with the Democratic Party.

[ConsAreLiars]

18. No offense, but that is just what "they" want

"That ad is why I am now for NBD
Nobody But Dean."

Some political operative runs an ad in Iowa and your whole political stance changes? Are you that gullible? Fickle? I don't think so. Step back a bit. Some rich guy or Gephardt or Bushie agent runs an ad and now you reject Kerry, Kucinich, Clark and crew? Now you are so morally outraged you will not vote against Bush! I don't think so, but when you let yourself get played like this you do no favor to democracy or even to Dean, since you lend credibility to the unfounded (and equally vile) accusation thst "Deanies" (anyone who uses that kind of language about any candidate's supporters earns my contempt) are "mindless cultists."

You think Dean is the best choice. Fine. But "NBD" is just stupid.

[Eloriel]

19. And see? I think voting for any Dem

Who hasn't vigorously and vociferously denounced this ad by now -- ESP when some of their "former staffers" are involved is stupid -- ands traitorous. Talk about Repug-Luite!


BTW, info dump on Feighan: http://www.dailykos.com/story/2003/12/13/235418/54#2

[ConsAreLiars]

20. I agree the ad is dirty

Politics gets that way on occasion, and those getting hit by the feces tossing monkeys are often more distraught than those who get missed. Your enthusiasm for Dean is admirable and one good reason he might be a good candidate, even though he is a bit too rightist for my tastes (actually they all are to a greater or lesser degree). but I think reacting to this little bit of stinky-poo by rejecting all other candidates is a bit silly.

[Walt Starr]

25. See, there's the problem. I don't consider this a "little stinky-poo"

IMO, there is no difference between Republicans and any Democrat who would have anything to do with this sort of ad aimed at a fellow Democrat. So much so that I see no difference between voting for Bush or a Democratic candidate who does not denounce such bullshit aimed at a fellow Dem. In fact, why should I waste time voting for a Bush lookandactalike when I can just as easily vote for the real deal?

[ConsAreLiars]

33. No difference?

"I see no difference between voting for Bush or a Democratic candidate who does not denounce such bullshit aimed at a fellow Dem."

Well, I do see a difference. Maybe if you think about it. If you don't I doubt anything I say will help. So sorry.

[Walt Starr]

35. Yep, no difference

Identical politcal whores. If it comes down to some asshole who put this thing out and Bush, I could easily "slip" and hit the hole next to Bush's name instead.

[ConsAreLiars]

37. And you cannot tell the difference between

"some asshole who put this thing out" and Kerry or Clark or Sharpton or Kucinich or Bush and regard them as all the same?

???

Look, I know you are just being a bit of the enthusiast, and I admire your vigorous loyalty to "your" guy, but don't make the mistake of letting a divisive campaign ad turn you against other decent Dems in this way. Always ask "who profits?"

[KittyWampus]

29. So You're The Democratic Gestapo?

We must all "vigorously and vociferously" denounce the ad?

If Dean can't handle this then he should get out of the race NOW!

And it's not the other candidate's obligation to stand up for Dean.

[KittyWampus]

27. Prove It Was Done By Democrats

[Walt Starr]

30. Here's your proof

http://www.progressivevalues.com/default.asp?ID=2

Run by an ex-Gephardt and an ex-Kerry staffer. The president of the group has donated $2000 to the Gephardt campaign.

[KittyWampus]

32. You Haven't Proven A Thing Walt Starr

all you've done is linked to info about a bunch of guys who worked on Democratic staffs and who are now running an organization called "progressive values"...

Maybe you haven't heard of Potemkin Villages?

Again, you and your witchunting brethren haven't proven a thing...

and your reaction has pretty put ME on the path to Anybody But Dean.

[Kinkistyle]

21. Geezus these ads remind me of an SNL skit

There was an SNL skit where Will Ferrell was some dirty local smalltown politician that launched these scathing attack ads on some trivial issues. Same exact style with that voice and foreboding music. How lame. I mean seriously, anybody who launches these type of ads is AN *SSHOLE. Especially considering its not even the frickin primaries yet.

[Cronus Protagonist]

6. I'm willing to trade on guns to gain a better president

This is not a wedge issue for me.

FUCK BUSH Buttons, Stickers & Magnets

[Devlzown]

10. That ad isn't so bad for Dean.

It might even help him in some states with open primaries (like mine).

[Sean Reynolds]

11. I could make an ad like that.

SHOW SILHOUETTES OF TWO POLITICANS - UNKOWN FOR NOW.

NARRATOR: These two leaders supported unilateral invasion of Iraq. One is George Bush.

GEORGE BUSH'S SILHOUETTE APPEARS.

NARRATOR: The other, John Kerrry.

JOHN KERRY'S SILHOUETTE APPEARS, THEN FLASHES TO JOE LIEBERMAN.

NARRATOR: And Joe Lieberman.

THE SILHOUETTE FLASHES AGAIN TO JOHN EDWARDS

NARRATOR: And John Edwards

THE SILHOUETTE FLASHES AGAIN TO DICK GEPHARDT

NARRATOR: And Dick Gephardt.

NARRATOR: Thats right. These four Democratic hopefuls all gave George W Bush a blank check for an unnecessary war.

NARRATOR: IF you thought these four had a progressive foreign record, think again.

[mzmolly]

15. Ohhh, I like....

:)

[Military Brat]

12. I'll offer my opinion on each ad, and I hope Dean will read this

The first one, about the NRA rating, I may be wrong but it's my understanding Dean is for each state setting their own agenda (laws) regarding guns. I despise the rah-rah poisonous gun culture in our society, but I support the right of each state to choose its own antidote.

The second ad is pathetic. Can anyone say "Willie Horton"? Dean should run a counter-ad with the same image, and a byline which reads: "bush didn't listen to the warnings the first time. What makes you think he'll listen the next time?"

[diamondsoul]

38. I watched them back to back-

that gives an interesting perspective to a semi-objective viewer! The first one, frankly is just stupid. Dean's statements about gun control are one issue I can see his consistency on. I'm content with his gun control stance and there's sound logic behind it.

The second one is so damned Rovian it's outright pathetic.

To the Dean crew, yes the Osama ad is disgusting, BUT it's also not too likely to be taken seriously by any thinking voter, imho. Honestly, NO reasonable democrat is going to accept one of our candidates being compared to Bin Laden that way as anything but a smear, and this is coming from a voter who really does not like Howard Dean much at all. If anything, that ad would push me TOWARD Dean rather than away from him.

[WhoCountsTheVotes]

14. I love the music in these commericals

reminds me of the score from Ice Storm.

[bluestateguy]

16. Oh what a bunch of crapola

There is nothing "progressive" about gun control. All gun control does is disarm ordinary people against the powerful.

[never cry wolf]

26. I have always been a huge supporter of gun control

I just don't see why they can't be licensed and restricted as well as cars or the need for assault weapons. If it were within my power to make handguns disappear I would, they were designed with a sole purpose in mind.

However, the thought of a$$kroft and shrubbie in charge of who has guns or leading an unarmed nation is scary indeed.

[NNN0LHI]

17. Actually I would prefer to talk shit about Bush

Thanks anyway though.

Don

[John_H]

22. This is what has the deanies shitting themselves?

Jesus. These ads are child's play compared to what the rethugs will pull on the nominee. Are we going to whine our way to victory?

It is interesting to note that niether of these ads could be run against Clark.

[Woodstock]

23. Oh, but there's plenty that could be run against him

What happens to one could happen to them all.

[Walt Starr]

31. No, that's not what the "Deanies are shitting themselves over"

Here's the vile piece of shit:

http://www.progressivevalues.com/images/flash/movie2.wmv

I KNEW this red herring would be picked up as the ad we're pissed about.

[Gman]

24. There's supposed to be something wrong with this ad???

If you can't stand the heat, get the hell out of the kitchen. Its called "politics".

This reminds me so damn much of the Bushbot rhetoric of it being wrong to attack "the president" its getting really, really disgusting. Just makes me more resolved to stop Dean just to piss off the Deanie Boppers.

[Walt Starr]

28. I agree, Dean should pick up this ad and run with it

It would nullify the NRA vote from being anti-Dean.

Dean getting an A rating from the NRA is a positive in my book.

[Gman]

34. Agreed

Dean can get a helluva lot of milage out of it in SC and the rest of the South, despite the bad rap on the NRA here.

[salin]

36. I believe the bruhaha isn't over this ad - but the Osama ad put out

by the same entity.

That one i think is foolish to be put out by any dem - as it gives preairing (before bush ads go into effect) of a theme the GOP will use - regardless of the credentials of the eventual dem nominee (if being a vietnam hero and losing 3 limbs couldn't stop the GOP from running (effectively) an ad campaign for a draft dodger that tied the hero to Osama and Hussein... no democratic candidate - regardless of credentials - will be spared. The ad also links strength on the issue to bush (to detract Dean) .... but what is left with the general audience is... bush... strong... fighting evil enemy... dem not (and the sick thing is they can use his {ineffective} tenure in these times as the "experience" and of course no other person has had that same experience). THis is the image that is left in the back of the mind of the General Election voters for MONTHS before any general campaign effort kicks in. Very stupid strategy based on the dem consultant/strategists who hosted this ad.

The NRA ad - fair game. The Osama ad - really bad strategy.