Why does Dean think secrecy is bad with 911, but sealed records are good?

[Myra]

He keeps criticizing Resident CheneyBush for blocking an investigation into 911, and pointing out how secrecy leads to
suspicion and speculation.

So why the double standard when it comes to privacy with
his own records?

[Sean Reynolds]

1. Well did Dean's closing of his records kill 3,000 Americans?

If so, you'd have a point.

[LittleDannySlowhorse]

6. What he said.

Yep.

[Bombtrack]

8. Islamists killed 3000 Americans, not the secrecy of the aftermath

I've given up on questioning Dean's double-standards and lies.

He bends the truth and regurgitates his bullshit in pretty every speech he gives.

[Pastiche423]

20. 3,000 Americans were not killed

on September 11, 2001.

Citizens from 62 countries were killed on September 11, 2001.

Btw, we still have not been shown any proof that "Islamists" were the killers.

[Myra]

9. Well that's the point Sean, we really don't know. They're *sealed*.

So we can't possibly know...unless they're *unsealed*.

[Sean Reynolds]

15. Read the papers, they are being unsealed.

Dean has left it up to a judge.

[AP]

11. Presumably, he feels that open records are route to better democracy.

Right?

Or is it ok to seal your records so long as you're not asking how people died?

[Myra]

25. If he feels that open records help democracy...

Why is he leaving it up to a judge to decide if they should be unsealed?

[Spider Jerusalem]

32. Rank sophistry.

The point here is that if Dean feels that government should be transparent and accountable to the citizenry then he should unseal the records of his governorship. To do otherwise leaves one with the impression that, while he may be saying these things, he doesn't really believe them. Seems like YOU'RE the one without a point...unless your point is to deflect the question through use of logical fallacies.

[JNelson6563]

2. Wow!!

Do you consider this logical reasoning?

Julie

[Cha]

5. I don't.. but don't really expect it.

[pruner]

3. probably for the same reason…

that Bill Clinton thought sealing his Governor records was a good idea before seeking the presidency.

[fjc]

4. Tactical

He said he would unseal his records if Bush would unseal his. Tit-for-tat. Sounds like a trade to me, and it takes the issue out from under the administration. You'll notice not much has been made of it as of late.

[creeksneakers2]

7. If Dean'r records were subject to a balanced review

I'd agree he should open them. The GOP will twist Dean's records into wild accusations. Nothing good comes from feeding witch hunters.

[Bombtrack]

10. Dean isn't the democratic nominee

he's still in a primary. The "well the GOP is worse" excuse isn't up to snuff when it comes to his flip-flop on campaign financing, and it isn't in this case

[AP]

12. Right on. In case people haven't noticed, we're trying to pick best Dem

at this stage, and this issue definitely informs us on the issue of who the best dem is.

[pruner]

21. where do you get all your Edwards "beefcake" photos from?

:)

[slinkerwink]

13. welcome to DU!!!

:hi:

[Cha]

18. I like your style...

"Nothing good comes from feeding witch hunters."

Welcome to DU!

[slinkerwink]

14. how come people keep posting the same topic over and over today?

http://www.democraticunderground.com/discuss/duboard.php?az=show_mesg&forum=104&topic_id=898709&mesg_id=898709

http://www.democraticunderground.com/discuss/duboard.php?az=show_mesg&forum=104&topic_id=898801&mesg_id=898801

Those two are dupes.

[Pastiche423]

17. Dunno

:shrug:

I hit alert and nothing has happened.

[Zomby Woof]

24. lol

Can't let THAT happen! The Dean contingent NEVER posts duplicates of their own! :eyes:

</excessively dripping sarcasm off

[Kat 333]

38. They are not really the same ...

The first one was regarding a news article "Gephardt Demands Dean Release Records" with a link to the story.

The second one was a question posed to others on this board - not relating to the Gephardt story but asking for their comments on "Why won't Dean release his records until after the primaries?" with no link to news source.

At least that is how I read them ...

[madfloridian]

16. I posted the answer.

You can do a search for it. The judge is handling the records now. You may now relax...it is in good hands.

[Padraig18]

19. You might try reading beyond page 1:

This is the third time this subject has been posted in GD TODAY alone, Myra. :wtf:

[Myra]

28. You could always link to it, and that would be more informative than "wtf"

eom

[Padraig18]

39. You could also try reading beyond page 1, as I suggested.

*I* didn't post the dupe, friend. :eyes:

[caledesi]

22. The "sealed records" thing is a non-starter. Puhleeze.

If that is ALL the repugs can try to get on Dean...this is a sorry siutation.

There is no "there" there. Do you understand?

All Dean has to bring up is where was Bush* during 1971-1972? Uh, just where was he? He has NEVER explained this.

Who really has the power? I think it's Dean.

[LittleDannySlowhorse]

23. Here's a more specific answer

Dean did not preside over the single worst national security failure in American history, and then try to divert attention from his responsibility in the event.

[Myra]

33. Um, but this reply is a major diversion.

Is there no Dean supporter that is bothered by this double standard?

Must have 911 commission, secrecy is intolerable in Democracy!
(But maybe a judge can try to unseal my records but I'll stall as
long as possible...)

[LittleDannySlowhorse]

36. I don't view it as a double standard

Dean is talking about a sitting government. If Dean was still in office it would be incumbent upon him to open his records too, but right now he's a private citizen, so the standard is different.

[Myra]

40. Hm, thanks LittleDannySlowhorse.

That is a distinction. Appreciate the post.

[LittleDannySlowhorse]

45. No problem

I can understand why people have a problem with Dean keeping his records sealed. Personally I don't have a problem with it, but I can understand how it could look hypocritical to some. That's perfectly fair.

[mzmolly]

26. One is about public privacy and the other national security

simple really.

[molly]

29. Sounds very much like what bush said last election?

his records are unsealed if you care to visit TX - a day late and a dollar short. Many have said they would NOT have voted for the man had they known what was in those sealed records at the time. Maybe it's a little history lesson?

[stickdog]

27. Why do Bush-lite Dems feel that Dean's private records are fair game,

but Bush's are not?

[Padraig18]

30. Why do they feel that Dean *should*, but THEIR candidate *shouldn't*?

The hypocrisy is sickening!

[molly]

31. You can view those sealed records if you want to visit

Texas.

[Padraig18]

35. Do you think Sen. Kerry would mind me looking through his filing cabinets,

computer hard drives, discs, etc.? :eyes:

[AP]

48. Vermont government records belong to people of Vermont.

If Kerry has records kept while serving as a Senator, they belong to US citizens and he probably would share them.

[stickdog]

37. Oh, really? I can view the August 9/11 records or the Cheney Energy Commis

records?

Bush-lite Dems sicken me.

[Padraig18]

41. Not true, molly.

If that were true, they'd have been wriiten about long before now, molly. care to back up your statement with a citation or link?

[Cha]

34. because it's more self serving

with Dean's "records"...they could give a shyte about what bush is getting away with.

[Kat 333]

46. Not sure who you are referring to

"Bush-lite Dems" but I think you've missed the point. The poster is asking Why DEAN (who has, evidently, asked bush* to open his records) Is not willing to open his OWN records.

Nowhere has it been insinuated that BUSH* should NOT open his but Dean SHOULD.

The point is that they BOTH should - Unless, of course, there is possibly something in the records (either party we mean) that they want to hide.

Even it that were not the case - it casts a shadow of doubt due to their unwillingness to do so.

On Edit: Reply to 37

[Room101]

42. Myra - Are you serous ?

You are trying to equate Bush sealing the 28 pages that show the monetary involvement of Saudi Arabia in the atrocity of September 11 with the sealing of Dean’s gubernatorial records?
A strong case can be made politically not sure about legally that Dean release his records. The same goes for Clark’s possible involvement in the 1993 destruction of the Branch Davidian compound in Waco Texas, which violated the Posse Comitatus act.

A declassified Pentagon report that identifies -- by title only -- Army brass who provided "training, equipment and material" to law-enforcement agencies for the operation. Among them: the commanding general of the 1st Cavalry Division, who at the time was General Clark. A source familiar with Clark's military record said that at one point Clark's outfit was ordered to supply some equipment to the FBI.

[Gman]

43. I can't believe you had the audacity to ask such a question

how dare you question Dean??

[Room101]

50. Gman - Would it kill you to type in some substance?

Or maybe address what I said? I did concede that politically he should open his records.I really find myself admiring Clark at times but some of his supporters Occasionally steer me in another direction. Notice how I said some and Occasionally not sweeping generalizations like the thread starter.

[madfloridian]

44. 3000 people died and that invalidates your question.

:(

[AP]

47. So if nobody died, 9/11 records could stay secret?

[Padraig18]

49. When may we view sen. Edwards' office files?

I'd like to see the correspondence and staff-meeting notes, please...