How many of you were upset with Clinton in 93-94

[Elwood P Dowd]

when he jumped in bed with the corporations and rammed NAFTA and GATT down our throats? How many were upset when Robert Matsui and Bill Richardson joined the republicans like New Getrich and Bobby Dole in feeding us all that "win win" BS? Let's not forget ole' Rosty boy and
his part in this scam. It had to go through Ways and Means first.
Some of the problems we have came from our own party.

I may have been born at night, but I wasn't born last night! I forked
out the $80.00 (or whatever it was) to buy copies of those agreements from the Govt Printing Office. Never have I heard so many lies told
about a piece of legislation until this Bush character was selected
as chief financial officer for the oil cabal in Washington.

[alphafemale]

1. Remember the last line from "Primary Colors?"

:cry:

He did. More than once.

[oasis]

2. I was mostly upset with Dems who failed to show up at the polls in 1994.

[incapsulated]

3. Let's have some perspective, shall we?

Before we start bashing Clinton.

Clinton was the first Democrat I voted for that won (I was too young to vote for Carter). Before him we had 8 years of Reagan and 4 years of Bush. 12 solid years of destroying this country's manufacturing base, international relations and the economy in general.

Before him there was Carter. The only President who did better after being kicked out of office.

Nixon. Enough said.

LBJ. Forget Iraq, hellooo Viet Nam! (unfortunate, too, he would've been remembered as a great POTUS if not for that damn war he wouldn't give up)

J.F.K. More myth than man and dead a few days after my birth.

So, yes, Clinton had failings. But he wasn't the first two-term Democratic President in my lifetime for nothing. He inherited an economic mess and a huge deficit that even I didn't believe he could fix. He ended with a surplus (ah, the surplus, remember that?)

There is no such thing as a perfect Democratic president, not one that can get elected in reality. They all compromise and sometimes they completely let you down.

But they are worlds away better than the alternative.

[oasis]

4. You are telling it exactly like it is.

[incapsulated]

5. Thanks :) n/t

[tkmorris]

8. Horse-hockey

We currently have a Republican president. Do you see him compromising? On anything, anywhere? At all?

No you don't. And he is getting away with it. If we continue to "be reasonable" and compromise we will slowly drift right even if we trade single term presidents back and forth forever. We have to fight back or we will lose. Clintonesque doesn't get it done.

[oasis]

11. Gotcha, why have half a loaf when you can have your principles?

[Dr Fate]

13. Yeah, and he fucks up everything he touches too...

I'm glad Clinton never acted like Bush...

[incapsulated]

He doesn't have to compromise

And I think you know why.

That double-standard we all live with called "it's ok if you're a Republican".

Tell me I'm wrong. Tell me the media is on our side. Tell me the average American voter hates Bush's guts and wants him removed, by force if necessary. Tell me they didn't really vote for Reagan and Bush 1 and Nixon, too. Tell me lies.

Clinton would have faced a dozen impeachment attempts by now had he tried to pull the shit Bush gets away with on a daily basis, and the media would be right there, cheerleading the effort.

[tkmorris]

35. OK

Point taken, and it's a valid one. But what you are saying is that we lose. Inevitably, slowly, inexorably, we lose. And we always will. Because the media is against us.

I was there. I remember. Clinton did not have to cave on welfare reform, but he did. He gave up on universal healthcare way too easily. Of course he faced opposition but he didn't have to cave so easily.

The Repubs did everything they could to impeach him even though he worked with them. So why did he bother? It didn't help him any they still tried everything in their power to take him down.

Are you people really this afraid? Do you really want Dems that get into office only to fold their hand at every opportunity because if they don't it might get hard? That way lies madness, and I will NOT go there with you. Y'all have fun compromising with Bush, I'll be too busy fighting him to congratulate you. Even if I lose the fight, I WILL fight.

Clinton didn't. We can do better.

[oasis]

37. Just follow the yellow brick road to the Emerald City. Everything's so

wonderful there.

[tkmorris]

39. Flippant and nonsensical

If you want a debate let me know. If you want to merely look cute, carry on.

[oasis]

40. Wake up and smell the coffee. If voters would have gotten up off of their

lazy asses in '94, Bill Clinton wouldn't have been put on the spot. That's the reality of it. Blame the man for being practical but he had to do some horse trading.

[oasis]

6. EPD,Since we have the straight scoop on Bill, howzabout trashing the Chimp

just to show yuour heart's in the right place?

[Blade]

7. We need to bash the fucking chimp..

before we bash our own. This is uncalled for.

[oasis]

9. The imbecilic, moron of a pretend president, George W. Bush.

[corporatewhore]

10. I conservative bash indiscrimately

whether they be dem or repug

[Elwood P Dowd]

14. I know. I know.

It just made me so mad watching it on CSPAN and CNN back then.

This FTAA thing is like NAFTA on steroids. How did we get into this mess? Old man Bush started the NAFTA thing in 1989, and now his stupid son is going to expand it.

Rove winds up the Bush doll, and it goes out and talks. This is the first talking doll I can ever remember being a President. At least Reagan was funny sometimes.

I would also like to say I am an old draftee from the Vietnam Era. Things seemed worse then, but LBJ and Nixon at least had a brain. How is that?

[oasis]

16. Howzabout, "LBJ and Nixon at least had a brain" AND were elected?

[Blade]

17. true dat, oasis..

[oasis]

23. Whenever I see the last elected president, Bill Clinton, I think back

to the days of happiness and prosperity. Bill and Hi;lllary were the only ones with worries. Rupert Murdoch, Richard Mellon Scaife and Rev. Sun Moon constanly stalking them with the right wing media.

Fathead Pigboy Rush Limpwad filling up the dittoheads with whatever those grade school dropouts wanted to hear.

It's a damn good thing both Bill and Hillary are geniuses.

[corporatewhore]

26. it wasnt that prosperous or happy

in iraq or vieques there is a world outside of the us

[oasis]

31. What would be your solution to save us from the Clintons of the world?

[Dr Fate]

12. For whatever failings he had, he is 100% better than Captain AWOL...

I dont get it- a Clinton bashing thread here at DU...How about some current events instead of memory lane- like what BUSH or a currently working DEM is going to do about our stake in the world economy...

[oasis]

15. Elwood thought it necessary to come here for an education.

[corporatewhore]

20. I see this as more of a conservative bashing thread

I think that voting for conservative dems and getting the party to move to the right is another repug plot

[Dr Fate]

22. Yeah- that Clinton economy and peace sure did suck...

...fuck him and "the man"...

[corporatewhore]

24. What peace

What peace
Vieques was occupied
School of Americas kept on goin
Iraq,kosovo and sudan were all bombed
I think that we need to stop hagiographifing him(i bet i mispelled)
and learn from his shortcomings and turn this party back to the left

[Blade]

25. Yeah...

but the whole world didn't hate us then, did they? Hell, we didn't turn our backs on our allies during that time, did we?

There was peace. No major terrorist attacks (except of the first WTC bombings and OKC bombing-but that was domestic). I mean, thousands of Americans didn't lose their lives over them.

Hell, those years were Heaven compared to the hell we're going through right now...

[corporatewhore]

27. im not saying things were worse

I just think that the dem party needs to turn left

[oasis]

28. Let's get way left. Burn all our weapons and use the bonfires to smoke.

:smoke:

[Blade]

32. Hell yeah!

I'm lightin' one up for you, bud! :smoke: :smoke: :smoke:

[oasis]

36. whacky tabacky

[corporatewhore]

18. Didnt like the NAFTA/WTO

screw job and various other things about clinton
like the continued occupation of vieques
the continuation of School of Americas
Or when he bombed iraq
and the workfare

[Blade]

19. Yeah..the man had his flaws...

all people do. But, remember this, Clinton was expontentially better as a leader than Shrub. Who cares what his flaws were. We were living much better with him as president than with the Shrub.

I say we should stop dwelling on the past and dwell on the present and future. What's done is done, just leave it alone and don't dwell.

[corporatewhore]

21. I agree we need to focus on the future

and keep the party from moving to the right

[Elwood P Dowd]

29. We also need to move away from a policy

that puts Democratic workers out of work, lowers the
standard of living, puts money in the pockets of
corporate whores in the republican party, and destroys
the unions in this country.

The Deomcratic Party was USED to get those trade deals
through and then discarded by the money boys. It's a
lesson we seem to forget.

I'm sorry that I bashed Clinton, but the republicans benefited
way more from those trade deals. It takes years for the effects
to hit home, and now they're hitting home. The American people
are just now learing that fact.

[corporatewhore]

30. mega dittos

during the miami protests i saw such a tremondous display of solidarity against free trade 40000 plus union workers retirees environmentalists animal righters pagans hippies and anarchists cant be wrong

[oasis]

33. Megadittos eh. You convinced me now... Yes Klintoon certainly sucks.

[tkmorris]

38. Don't kneejerk

The man is definately left of you, he's no dittohead.

[oasis]

41. I'm not trying to be left of anyone. You guys are trashing one of the best

ever presidents and you are not getting a pass.

[oasis]

34. Republicans benifited more from trade deals. I guess so, they always will

there the ones with the money, if you recall. dosen't matter who's in Dem or Rethug.