Kerry is now proud of his IWR vote

[Guaranteed]

Touting it on all the Sunday morning programs.


On edit: I just want EVERYONE to mark this. MARK THIS. He is PROUD.

[joeybee12]

1. Seriously?

[Guaranteed]

It was one of the first things he mentioned talking

with Tom Brokaw.

He's sliding back.

[chimpymustgo]

56. This REQUIRES a link or a quote. I didn't hear him say that on Fox.

Please back it up.

[Guaranteed]

61. You'll see in the coming weeks, I'm sure.

His "nuancing" is changing.

I have no link, although I looked...I saw him talking to Tom Brokaw. Others saw it too. If you could find a transcript, I'd appreciate it if you would post it.

But, just watch- there will be no more outrage from Kerry.

[chimpymustgo]

68. Is your post a lie? Did he NOT say he was proud, but will in the coming

weeks - according to YOUR crystal ball??

You should request that this thread be locked.

[Guaranteed]

72. I did NOT say that he SAID he was proud.

He did not SAY he was proud. He TOUTED his IWR vote. That's what PROUD people DO, ISN'T IT?

[Jacobin]

2. Kerry does enjoy having it both ways.

Quite an opportunist, no?

Just wait until the insurgency movement intensifies. Then he will be against it again.

:D

[The Zanti Regent]

10. Tell it to ny crippled nephew, Pink Tutu Kerry!

He's lying in a bed in Walter Reed, an Iraqi bullet cut his spinal cord.

He's 23 and his life is ruined.

Tell him how proud you are that you ruined his life you damned cheap opportunistic piece of shit!

[Jacobin]

18. I'm assuming that your wrath is directed toward Kerry and not my post

I'm very very sorry to hear of the injury to your nephew. Believe me, I am. I have two sons who will soon be of draft age. This PNAC crap has GOT to stop. We need to BUY the oil we need instead of stealing it, until we start a Manhattan style project to develop alternative fuels.

[lostnfound]

38. I am so sorry.

Medicine and miracles. I hope you and your nephew get both for Christmas.

[onecitizen]

3. My gawd he is such a mess! nt

nt

[Guaranteed]

4. He had me. He had me GOOD after Pitt's piece.

I thought he was sorry.

[ErasureAcer]

54. Kerry sucks

How can he be proud of taking out someone who did no harm to the United States and a person who has the right to govern his country anyway he pleases?

People actually support this jackass?

I won't be voting for Kerry under any circumstance...

[phirili]

5. Kerry said that all along

[Guaranteed]

8. He apologized during the meeting at Franken's nt

[SahaleArm]

12. Source? n/t

[Guaranteed]

14. Will frickin' Pitt! nt

[virtualobserver]

16. he was misled, but now he has been unmisled.

hope he doesn't get misled again next week.

[Jacobin]

20. He'll be miss-led-unled-missed again in about a month

when the attacks on our troops begin to escalate.

Set your watch, mark your calendar.

He's as predictable as a $20 whore.

[JNelson6563]

6. Noted

thanks

[JI7]

7. kerry ALWAYS said he voted right on that

his criticism was always about bush's handling which he continues to do today. he has been consistent with that.

[Guaranteed]

11. Did you read Will Pitt's piece? nt

[underpants]

21. Kerry's response on this had always been good IMHO

He uses it to point out that W&Co. not only lied to the American people but that they lied to the US Senate an House and the UN. The IWR vote just gave W this right to go to the UN (he could have anyway) WITH the support of the legislature. That is a sign that he had the representatives support which is important in international affairs.

The problem is that it was so vaguely written (as was UN 1441) that no one was sure how it would be implimented. Negroponte was running all over the UN telling THEM that 1441 had no "automaticity" in it but as soon as those missiles were found BOOM automaticity and the war was on.

They did the same thing with the second tax cut. Both houses passed a version and then it went to the Repub only committee and then rushed to the floors for votes. They told everyone what was in it (no time given to read and analyze much like the Medicaid bill) and after the vote guess what.......in fact many things had changed:the child tax credit for those making less than $26 K is one example.

The problem for Kerry is that, like this post, that reasoning is not easily shrunken for mass consumption. The bar has been set so low by this bumpersticker politics and media that no one will sit around for not an explanation but a review of the FACTS.

[virtualobserver]

24. Kerry is for everything that goes right in IRAQ....

and against everything that goes wrong.

[Jacobin]

53. heh heh. I noticed that, too

[Guaranteed]

26. True...his support of the IWR was very

nuanced.

Unfortunately, "Yea" fits very neatly on a bumper sticker.

[Guaranteed]

27. Dupe nt

[Granite]

34. Unfortunately his nuanced approach is lost

on many - too bad, because I've never seen a public policy issue - both foreign and domestic - that was ever black and white. But with media soundbites and a public that has collective ADD, JK's syle hasn't resonated with the masses. His consistency, however, can't be questioned.

[msmcghee]

51. Hi Granite, welcome to DU.

Good observations.

I've always thought that liberals in general are more likely than conservatives to be open to the many shades of gray that reality hits us with. Lately, here at DU I've started to re-examine that assumption.

I suspect that when things get emotional - both sides revert to "true-believer" mode. Although I think the RW spends their whole lives their.

I'd still like to see more thoughtful posts here - even in these troubled times. But I think I'm SOL on that.

Peace

:thumbsup:

[LeahMira]

63. Disappointing... if true.

The problem for Kerry is that, like this post, that reasoning is not easily shrunken for mass consumption. The bar has been set so low by this bumpersticker politics and media that no one will sit around for not an explanation but a review of the FACTS.

I will be very disappointed if Senator Kerry now crows about his IWR vote. You are right on in saying that his ideas are not easily presented in sound bytes. I thought a while ago that Kerry would have a hard time because he presented more nuanced thoughts on issues. You have to pay close attention to what he says. I really like that, but most people seem to want a simple yes or no.

I'll wait to hear exactly what Kerry said and in response to what question or situation.

Hard fact, though, is that some candidates saw through the IWR and came out against it from the start... whether they actually voted against it in Congress or make their voices heard in their public speeches. That definitely gives them an edge now in terms of being consistent.

I guess I'm still waiting to hear what they feel should be done when there is an individual guilty of crimes against humanity who is at loose in the world.

[SahaleArm]

9. BS - He did not say that.

He just repeated why he voted for it; he's never apologized so I don't know what you Deanies are complaining about?

[Guaranteed]

13. He didn't have to mention it, but he did

He's trying to get in on the anti-Saddam glow.

[SahaleArm]

15. Were we watching the same Browkaw interview? n/t

[Guaranteed]

17. You didn't hear him mention the fact, unprompted,

that he voted for the IWR?

[Rose Siding]

30. "That was a terrible mistake"

“The way Powell, Eagleberger, Scowcroft, and the others were talking at the time,” continued Kerry, “I felt confident that Bush would work with the international community. I took the President at his word. We were told that any course would lead through the United Nations, and that war would be an absolute last resort. Many people I am close with, both Democrats and Republicans, who are also close to Bush told me unequivocally that no decisions had been made about the course of action. Bush hadn’t yet been hijacked by Wolfowitz, Perle, Cheney and that whole crew. Did I think Bush was going to charge unilaterally into war? No. Did I think he would make such an incredible mess of the situation? No. Am I angry about it? You’re God damned right I am. I chose to believe the President of the United States. That was a terrible mistake.”
snip>

The most revealing moment of the entire event came as it was breaking up. Kerry was slowly working towards the door when he was collared by Art Spiegelman. Though Kerry towered over him, Spiegelman appeared to grow with the intensity of his passion. “Senator,” he said, “the best thing you could do is to is to just come out and say that you were wrong to trust Bush. Say that you though he would keep his promises, but that you gave him more credit than he deserved. Say that you’re sorry, and then turn the debate towards what is best for the country in 2004.”

Kerry nodded, bowed his head, and said, “You’re right. I was wrong to trust him. I’m sorry I did.” And then he was gone.

http://www.truthout.org/docs_03/121003A.shtml

[Guaranteed]

31. Yup.

Kerry had changed in recent weeks, and I had thought for the better.

[SahaleArm]

40. Admitting mistake != Apology n/t

[Rose Siding]

49. In part, yes, but slightly less responsible, imo

[cryofan]

19. That's what Kucinich supporters have been saying--all "serious" candidates

have been designated by, and even created by, the media BECAUSE the media has vetted them for their willingness to kowtow and follow CorpGovMedia doctrine, i.e., war, corporate power, going along with whatever the currect propaganda push happens to be, etc etc etc....

[Guaranteed]

22. Bingo.

I thought Kerry learned something. He did not.

Seriously- these are not crocodile tears. After Pitt's piece, I considered supporting Kerry instead of Dean. I even said I would switch if he apologized and understood what he did wrong.

He clearly has no shame, as long as the winds blow in his direction.

[cryofan]

23. All "serious" candidates dare not "speak truth to power"...

.....like Kucinich will and does.

[Guaranteed]

25. I think Kucinich is the big winner in all of this.

Not only are we now seeing our candidates waffle on the war because of Saddam's capture (which, undoubtedly, Kucinich will not), but now Kucinich gets to yell VERY loud what he's been saying all along- that we need to get the hell out of there.

This helps Kucinich BIG time. Just more and more integrity....man, he's stacking it up like a brick wall.

[phirili]

28. Kerry never apologized for his IWR vote. That should tell anti-Kerryers

something

[Scott Lee]

41. Which way does the wind blow? So goeth John Kerry.

He was misled. No wait, now he was unmisled. Er, what he means is, he was on top of it, but a little misled. Hold on hold on...he was led right at first, then misled, then reassured, and misled again, or is it...

Fuggit. John Kerry doesn't have a clue where he is on this until he sticks his finger to the wind.

[Guaranteed]

29. I'm sorry. I feel betrayed.

I sincerely thought he was coming around. Now he's right back where he was, playing word games and enabling.

DON'T COME BACK, KERRY.

[info being]

58. I know, it sucks...I guess we have to look at the candidate's...

record. Anybody can talk a mean game, but Kucinich is the only one with a solid record absent of hypocracy and spin.

[incapsulated]

32. What *exactly* did he say?

Or should we all condemn him on hersay?

[Guaranteed]

33. Good point.

I'll see if I can find a transcript.

The impression I got was that Kerry mentioned his support of the IWR unprompted.

[Guaranteed]

35. I don't know where to find one...

Looked on Yahoo....could use some help in finding the Brokaw interview, although I'm sure he said it in other spots.

[incapsulated]

36. Well, it will come out eventually

I will hold fire until then. ;)

[cryofan]

37. It was more than just what he said; it was also the way he said it

I saw it. He used the euphoria that many Americans were feeling at the moment to shine a light on his IWR "Yes" vote. The first thing he said was something along the lines of "I voted to support going after Saddam". Or something like. And his tone was slightly self congratulatory...

[Cooley Hurd]

39. How does Saddam's capture change anything?

Bush still lied about WMD's...

Because of his lies, 450 soldiers are still dead...

Saddam's hidey-hole had no effective means to communicate with the insurgents in real time (no radios, internet), meaning he was probably nothing more than a figurehead in the insugency, if indeed the insugents were/are Baathists...

Saddam's capture doesn't change the fact that the war was wrong to begin with, and doesn't change the fact that the attacks will continue, possibly with even greater ferocity.

If I were John Kerry, I wouldn't crow about my IWR vote - it was still was a wrong decision on his part.

[Scott Lee]

42. It will sway some cowards, harden up the committed.

But that's about it. The attacks in Iraq will continue, in fact they may stiffen. In two weeks this will be old news that Americans will be sick of, and we'll be back to squabbling about the same issues.

[creativelcro]

48. Not even that....

Look, people are more scared of ghosts than real people sometimes.

[Kitsune]

43. Well, no way in hell I'll vote for him now, either.

Nobody should be proud of voting to send people off to die for any reason, much less over transparent lies. That's not someone I want within 50 feet of the Oval Office.

[NNN0LHI]

44. Come on. You really think this would have been the day to express regret?

Who do you think you are dealing with here? A bunch of fucking kids or something?

Don

[Guaranteed]

46. He used it as a selling point. nt

[bigtree]

45. proud of his vote

ashamed of the president for misusing the authority he gave him.

What is so damning about that? He wanted Hussein out. He wanted a international inspection of Iraq backed up by U.S. force. He (we) got a unilateral, preemptive invasion.

You can put all of your objections to the war on Kerry's shoulders.
He is apparently not bowed by your opposition to his vote. He feels that his intentions were valid. Absent a lying, duplicitous president he may have succeded in ending the Hussein regime without war.

Would that be a good thing? I think so.

[creativelcro]

47. Proud because having captured Saddam made him

retroactively an immediate threat to the US. Good argument Sen. Ice Kerry.

[bigtree]

67. Kerry never argued that Saddam was an immediate threat

Or that war was inevitable of necessary. His vote was to provide the threat of U.S. force to back the resolve of the U.N.. Neither the U.N. or Kerry felt that Bush should have moved preemptively or unilaterally, although both gave approval for pressure to the Iraq regime backed by U.S. force. After the Senate vote the inspectors were allowed back in and Saddam actually began destroying missiles. The measured actions by Congress, the U.N. had the potential to dislodge Saddam and put the question of WMD's to rest. Bush jumped the gun and invaded. Bush shunned the world. Bush lied.

Kerry acted responsibly, and his vote might have resulted in a showdown like Clinton in Haiti, save the actions of a duplicitous Bush.

[molly]

75. We need to keep repeating this!

[cindyw]

50. Did he use the word "proud"? or is this a rumor you are spreading?

Give direct quotes please.

[Guaranteed]

52. No, he said it as if he was proud of it.

He was selling himself with it.

Look, it's clear that those who voted for the IWR are going to head back right, now. I say go ahead. No fair-weather anti-war candidates here.

[cindyw]

64. So you are starting a rumor. Good. I'll start a thread on that.

[Guaranteed]

65. I'm not starting a rumor!

HE WAS PROUD. He offered it up with no prompting.

Man, I wanna find that transcript.

[bigtree]

69. kerry's statement

“This is a great day for U.S. forces, the Iraqi people, and the world. Capturing Saddam Hussein and ensuring that this brutal dictator will never return to power is an important step towards stabilizing Iraq for the Iraqis.

Let’s also be clear: Our problems in Iraq have not been caused by one man and this is a moment when the administration can and must launch a major effort to gain international support and win the peace. We need to share the burden, bring in other countries, and make it clear to the world that Iraq belongs to the Iraqi people.”

Today is another opportunity to invite the world into a post-Saddam Iraq and build the coalition to win the peace that we should have built to win the war.”

[Guaranteed]

70. I saw that

That wasn't his interview with Tom Brokaw...but, yes, he mentioned the unilateralism, too.

[cindyw]

77. Where in there does he say he is proud? HUH?

No where. This thread was started as an interpretaion of his attitude. I could say a whole lot about what Dean really means by my interpretation of his attitude, but that would be dishonest.

This thread is slanderous at best!

[bigtree]

80. you're right cindyw

no record of the word proud. But I'd be suprised if he said he regreted his vote. I don't think he should have to apologise for Bush's unprecedented, unilateral, preemptive invasion. No more than the U.N. should for res.1444

[sendero]

55. I'm not surprised...

... when someone's actions belie their true intentions, it is hard to hide it. Kerry never was able to hide it well, and now not at all.

F*ck him.

[drfemoe]

57. if true

not surprised at all .. he's a politican . nothing more.

[evil_orange_cat]

59. sigh... Kerry's a weasel... Kerry for prez? No Thanks...

I don't want another dopey politician... I want someone who's going to back up his beliefs and actions. Not someone who's going to change his mind when polls shift.

So Kerry is proud he usurped his Congressional responsibility and gave Bush the authority to start a war. He won't get my vote...

[molly]

66. Isn't that what HoHo has done ever since he began

campaigning? "Not someone who's going to change his mind"

[evil_orange_cat]

78. who is HoHo?

just curious... yes, I'm aware that most politicians pander and such and are not necessarily 100% consistent. But Kerry has been like one of those wind vanes on a farmhouse... shifting whichever way the polls blow.

[curse10]

60. Christ.

The rampant hatred of Kerry is just ridiculous.

[Guaranteed]

62. Well,

goddamnit, I trusted him when he was regretful...just DAYS ago. I LIKED the guy. I was warming up to him, thought he really saw what he did wrong.

Then with Brokaw he comes right out and says he voted for the IWR. He SOLD it.

[curse10]

71. He can't deny he voted for the IWR

sheesh. Read his statement. He isn't proud of his vote.

http://www.democraticunderground.com/discuss/duboard.php?az=show_topic&forum=104&topic_id=905204

He's pragmatic about it.

[Guaranteed]

73. He was touting it. nt

[curse10]

74. Ugh.

Why do I even bother?

You aren't going to change your mind. Keep spewing the hate.

[Dubyawatchers]

76. I saw it

I saw the interview and that is the impression I got but I know
I'm biased. I'm glad to see someone else thought the same way.
It did make me feel good that I'm an EX-kerry supporter.

[Guaranteed]

79. THANK YOU.

Much appreciated. :)