Now I see. Now the lies that led us to war were ok.

[madfloridian]

Just because Saddam is caught. I am seeing some sad things here today.

[cthrumatrix]

1. exactly....this is how spin and PR works.

nobody is any safer nor does this justify "mis-truths" for this war.

It's always for a reason....and we have already shared numerous benefits to announce this now.

[madfloridian]

19. Right, and we catch Osama next October? Or more?

The lies are still lies.

[kalian]

2. And it will get "better" for the administration....

they'll next be lead to the WMDs...

[madfloridian]

3. That is why ALL our candidates need to push the truth forward....

about 9/11, about the war.....about the economy.

[a_lil_wall_fly]

10. The truth on 9/11 is available..but no one whats to piss off the ....

House of Saudi, for the full truthful account on the that infamous day.

[Iverson]

4. right on

If we throw critical thinking out the window so quickly, then what hope do we have for Mr. and Mrs. Middle America staring at mainstream news on tv?

[young_at_heart]

5. It was always about getting rid of evil-doers

The evil-doers are ruining the world and our fearless leader is the first person to have the guts to go after them (spin...spin...spin).

[MrPrax]

6. Might be the Genesis of a new Spin

Does this look like a future meme
"Saddam's Freedom Ends Without a Shot; Dictator's Capture Ends Massive Nine-Month Manhunt" from ABCnews

Oh so US invasion, the dead troops, the democracy thing, the WMDs, etc have been reduced to a Massive Nine-Month Manhunt

And if I remember capturing

didn't help Daddy at electon time.

If anything, this makes one less reason to continue to stay in Iraq and a hard one to justify to taxpayers and military families.

[sandnsea]

7. America loves a winner

It's all about perception. Facts and issues don't matter. I've been hearing that about Howard Dean for months now. So if anybody ought to get it, Deanie's should.

America will see Bush as the one who caught the "bad guy". The "bad guy" that Howard Dean wasn't sure Iraq was better off without.

Of course the lies and the poor diplomacy matter. Kerry stated that in his statement today. Kerry has consistently stated that before and after the war.

When dealing with perception, who has the credibility to keep the focus on Bush's failures? A guy who didn't care about getting Saddam at all? Or a guy who wanted to confront him, but in the right way?

[lastliberalintexas]

8. I agree

How his capture all of a sudden makes the absence of WMD any less real is beyond me. :shrug:

His capture also does not change the fact that we invaded a sovereign nation with absolutely no evidence that it posed an imminent threat to the safety of the US. Or that we've lost 500 service men and women. Or that we're still going broke to pay Halliburton/Carlyle. Or that we've created a mess in Iraq that's going to result in further bloodshed.

I could go on, but I think you at least understand.

[Rose Siding]

9. You'd think, huh?

Too many sunshine patriots.

[madfloridian]

11. Assertion vs Reality, Dean lays out the lies in chart form...

Bush and WMD: Assertion vs. Reality
ASSERTION REALITY
Bolton 11/20/01:
“The existence of Iraq's program is beyond
dispute.” Bolton said the U.S. fears “a rogue state”
may be trying to help Osama Bin Laden's terrorist
network acquire biological weapons, but he stopped
short of linking Iraq to al Qaeda.
(Daily News, 11/20/2001)
The evidence:
“Without material from abroad, Iraq probably
would not be able to make a weapon until 2007 to
2009, owing to inexperience in building and operating
centrifuge facilityes … and challenges in procuring
the necessary equipment and expertise.”
(National Intelligence Estimate, 10/02)

[bowens43]

12. It's unbelievable

people are saying that the capture of saddam justifies the war. It's ridiculous. Did anyone doubt before the war that saddam would be captured or killed? This isn't some great unexpected victory nor does it change the facts that led our country to attack a nation that presented no threat.

[SadEagle]

15. Well, sort of.

Our "success" w/capturing Osama in Afganistan did sort of lower the expectations

[madfloridian]

13. kick

.

[JanMichael]

14. Yep. The Ends Justify the Rotten, Lying, Scummy, Means to some people.

I saw Saddam's cature, or death, as inevitable.

It doesn't make the Lies to start the Invasion True!

What does it mean to the Iraqi People?

Probably chaos.

The Baath Party people, who are a BIG part of the population, will now truly be targeted by the Shia Majority now that the Devil is in cuffs.

[Minstrel Boy]

16. Since when did this war become legitimate?

The war and occupation is a monstrosity and a lie. Any "good" that comes of it is poison, tainted by the contravention of a greater good, the rule of law, and by the terrible presumption of imperial right.

I've never been more discouraged as a member of this forum, and I've never felt more alienated from the American left. Because, frankly, the only nation I have cause to fear is the United States. And unbound by any law but the limits of its kill potential, it's an awful thing.

It's a disgrace, the mimickry of the "Gotcha!" propaganda machine. Especially here.

[lastliberalintexas]

17. Will you sponsor

my family if we decide to move to Canada?

Just kidding. But I agree wholeheartedly about how discouraging people's posts are today. And the American Left can't seem to keep its eyes on the prize. We're too busy promoting a candidate rather than our ideals. Sorry that our actions impact you and the rest of the world as much as they do.

[madfloridian]

18. Kick

Shameless kick for truth. The war is still a lie.

[ComerPerro]

20. I have to admidt, right now I am really respectful and in awe of the admin

of the Bush administration. That is, I repsect them as dangerous, lying, murdering fanatics who will do anything to stay in power, and I am ever more respectful of them than ever before as propagandists.

Not only did they capture Saddam (or, some arab looking guy, who konws), but now the Iraqi governming council "finds" a handwritten document dated July 2001 that "proves" a link between Saddam and 9/11, but also "proves" that Iraq was actually trying to buy uranium.

http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/main.jhtml?xml=/news/2003/12/14/wterr14.xml&sSheet=/portal/2003/12/14/ixportaltop.html

Well, one handwritten document by a group of people who were put in power by the Bush administration that "proves" that Bush's lies were actually true, and makes Bush's opponents look bad. And they insist that its real.

Gee, thats good enough for me. Its not like you can make shit like that up. Its not as if they could just forge a document that would miraculously save Bush's ass on every front...

[Minstrel Boy]

21. "You're either with us, or you're with the Bush Administration"

I feel like saying that after reading some of today's disheartening posts.

"Us" being the tens of millions of the world's citizens who recognized the war as a criminal venture before it began, and still do.

Good fruit springing from a rotton root? I don't think so.

[madfloridian]

22. Today is the real split in the party.

Dean spoke up early on. The others did not. Dean told the truth. The others ignored it.

Now for the sad part....the candidates are using Dean's truth against him for their own gain.

This is not funny. It is a tremendously serious problem.