ABC orders some candidates off stage....

[kalian]

http://www.commondreams.org/views03/1213-07.htm

"How did Dennis Kucinich and Al Sharpton and Carol Moseley Braun get into this thing?" ABC's Ted Koppel complained before the Democratic candidates' debate that he moderated this week. "Nobody seems to know. Some candidates who are perceived as serious are gasping for air, and what little oxygen there is on the stage will be taken up by one-third of the people who do not have a snowball's chance in hell of winning the nomination."

Sad day in America, isn't it?

[derby378]

1. Unfortunate remarks, yes...

...but the first primaries and caucuses are coming around the bend. For every single Democratic candidate, it is now truly do-or-die.

[DemBones DemBones]

4. But it's the primaries that are to winnow the field, not the media.

The media have an exaggerated sense of their role in American politics, trying increasingly to shape the process, rather than stick to their proper function of reporting it.

[PissedOffPollyana]

10. ... and the conglomerates they rode in on.

They understand the power they have, so long as nobody pays attention to who's behind that curtain.

ABC is not ABC anymore; been a long time since that was the case. ABC is Di$ney, a conglomerate with a wide range of rea$ons to be interested in steering the elections, and we should not forget it. For that matter... AOL/Time Warner, Viacom, General Electric, etc.... they are the thrust behind this issue.

It's bad enough to kowtow to media manipulation when it may simply be about ratings, vanity, that sort of thing. How can we appease it, or even allow it without a LOUD, protracted fight, when we know who is REALLY behind the sprayed & spackled talking heads?

If we hope to make any inroads this year, the only route is by repeatedly connecting all of these issues back to their root, the corporate takeover of the US and every facet of it. We've got to fight it and mean it.

THAT is what will get people into booths.

[WhoCountsTheVotes]

5. not a single vote has been cast

Saddam was just captured, which could change the dynamics of the whole race. The Corporate Media wants to slaughter Democrats not just in the primary but all the way through the general election.

And some Democrats here want to GO ALONG with it because they naively think it might help their candidate.

No wonder the Democratic Party is a minority party.

[Woodstock]

2. Sorry, but I agree with this statement

I want to focus on the candidates who actually have a chance of getting nominated. I want the voters to really have something substantial to hear when they tune in.

[toddzilla]

3. the only candidates thare are saying something substantial..

Are the very ones that are being pushed out. The system is designed this way for a reason. True change is not part of the program, only status quo.

[DemBones DemBones]

8. Spot on. It all seems hopeless to me lately. eom

[Tinoire]

16. Thank you for beating me to it

WIthout those three candidates, I wouldn't even bother tuning in.

[Upfront]

21. Media Not Allowed

To select our candidates, screw Kopel.

[WhoCountsTheVotes]

27. evidentally they are allowed to

because that's just what they are doing.

[Myra]

28. "Media Not Allowed" To select our candidates, screw Koppel...

Agreed!
That should be up to the voters, not a pompous media whore.

And what's even worse than his crappy comments is the fact that
his disgraceful debate "moderation" style totally reflected that
attitude. A news person should not be the story, in a sane country.
They should focus questions on issues and the candidate's opinions,
as Kuchinich stated so articulately, not the process. And certainly
not on propaganda polls, and money raised (which of course will
always make Chimpy the "winner" 'cause he's the cash king).

I'm totally convinced that the the debate/ambush was the preamble
to the decision ABC had already made. So they hyjacked our debate
to as part of their self-serving strategy.

[arcane1]

25. exactly

Kucinich said the SAME THING during the "debate"- he says things the media does NOT want the American people to hear, and his message is pushed out by nonsense topics and marginalization

:grr:


fuck you Ted

[bpilgrim]

7. limmiting the debate does not serve our interest

on many levels...

some of the benifits...

1. it keeps the reTHUG fire in check as it is harder to know who to target.

2. it legitamizes the attacks against the chimp as it is comming from many sources

3. the attacks are harder to defend against

4. it especially braodens and legitamizes the dissent against the neoCONs

besides there is still plenty of time for all the canidates to campaign and get their message out.

peace

[PissedOffPollyana]

11. Sorry, can't agree with you.

So, you may that these candidates are the ones with a chance of getting nominated, but that's not exactly rocket science. Where the Dem party has lost steam is by propping up homogenous as the safe & preferable path to winning elections. Has this helped them? Not really. They have merely turned themselves into a permanent opposition party by framing themselves in relation to the GOP instead of on their own terms.

Why is it that most of the candidates tend to always frame their policies in contrast with GWs? Not because he is the one in power, but because there is not enough of Democrat tradition alive to hearken to. The party's reaction, coupled with ridiculous statements like yours, makes it very plain that we no longer care about the voice of the people being heard.

As we move further toward the policies, we move further toward the tactics too. According to you and too many like you, we should show blind faith in the edicts from on high in the party & media and play 'follow the leader', even though not a single voter has had a chance to speak.

It is suggested that we should stifle the most progressive voices, the very ones that lead the way and compel discussion on most of the defining issues of the national platform.

So, what are they afraid of, that the voters might actually think they have a SAY in what their party say/does in their name?

That dissent/disagreement should be treated as unacceptable and counterproductive to formation of the platform?

Doesn't sound very Democratic to me.

[K-W]

14. If there was a potential for interesting informative debates

between the frontrunners, then id agree, but taking out the issue oriented candidates would turn the debates into increasingly simantic and petty power plays between the frontrunners.

[Dob Bole]

6. If Sharpton's not in the debates, there's no point in watching them...

He's the one who lightens things up. Ted Koppel? Yeah, what a sense of humor that guy has. Really makes the debates interesting. :rolleyes:

[kentuck]

9. Yes, we will let Ted Koppel and ABC determine who has a chance?

As far as I know, no one has cast a vote yet? Even if they are low in the polls, their message is important to the Party because they may say something that changes the way other candidates look at an issue. At one time, Howard Dean would have been one of those asked to not be on the stage, but he has changed the whole Democratic debate with his message. So, I would say that the message of those "bottom three" is important to he Party and to the political process, in general.

[Zomby Woof]

12. And then DK kicked his ass

A happy day for many of us. :-)

[eblack101]

13. Candidates? For What, beside our attention?

Friends,

Woodstock says:
>>>
I want to focus on the candidates who actually have a chance of getting nominated. I want the voters to really have something substantial to hear when they tune in.
>>>

This is the way that I feel as well. Either we truly beleive that we are facing a national emergency and opposing the beginning of a Neo-Fascist country, or we don't.

If we do, there's no getting around the fact that all these self indulgent "candidates" are taking up precious airtime, message space, financial support and "face time", and that is a waste of time, effort and money for all of us as well as our party.

Joe Leiberman cannot win, and everyone of us who's willing to be candid with him/herself knows it. So why doesn't Joe do the party and the eventual candidate the appropriate favor and take himself out of the way? I know...he's been counting on being president for the last 3 years, but it's time he listens to his own wife, and either endorses one of his competitors and drops out, or just drops out and pledges the eventual winner his heartfelt support.

Leiberman has given the Dem party a lot, and deserves our respect. But he's not going to be nominated, and it's about time he accepts it like a grownup and shows us that he's a professional.

As to Sharpton, he's a skilled comedian, but frankly, a skilled comdedian that isn't doing his party one bit of good by knocking the candidates who are much more qualified than he is and that, before long, he will have to support. Why should he wait, and clutter up the field and the debate?

Same with Braun. She's assured herself her ascendant status as THE black feminist, and secured a place at the table (and the dinner speaker's circuit), isn't it about time she got about her real job of supporting her party and the 2 candidates who will contest for the nomination?

Rep. Kucinich is a special case, as for so many of our older Dems, he represents the basic liberal spirit of the party. Even so, he should bow out. He's established who he is to anyone of us who will care, and he's now accepted as a 'senior statesman' of the Democratic Party. Now, he should just do the right thing while it's still timely and useful.

KenTuck writes:
>>>
As far as I know, no one has cast a vote yet? Even if they are low in the polls, their message is important to the Party because they may say something that changes the way other candidates look at an issue. At one time, Howard Dean would have been one of those asked to not be on the stage, but he has changed the whole Democratic debate with his message. So, I would say that the message of those "bottom three" is important to he Party and to the political process, in general.
>>>

Ken, knows, if he chooses to acknowledge it, that one glance at the polls shows us that in practical terms, many votes have been cast. Is it necessary for us to honor old forms just because they are old forms?
Or can we face a real crisis in American politics with some innovative and timely moves.

It's not as if the various candidate's pet messages don't get honored in this process. Traditionally, when one drops out, one makes a "backroom" deal with another candidate. Something on the order of: Stand for my issue here, and I'll stand for you. Shouldn't that be enough?

PHDiva sees the big issue here:
>>>
If we hope to make any inroads this year, the only route is by repeatedly connecting all of these issues back to their root, the corporate takeover of the US and every facet of it. We've got to fight it and mean it.
>>>

Mussolini explained Fascism as "corporatism"...and that's the emergency issue facing America. Let's get on with getting behind and encouraging the candidates who are actually going to be carrying the ball for us at this crucial time in our nations history.

eric

[Iverson]

15. uh, candidates for President

Sorry if you agree with Koppel, but that still isn't how democracy works. If we're serious about democracy, we'll actually try it.

[Tinoire]

19. What a bunch of crock

As to Sharpton, he's a skilled comedian, but frankly, a skilled comdedian that isn't doing his party one bit of good by knocking the candidates who are much more qualified than he is and that, before long, he will have to support.

And people wonder why Blacks are abandoning the party in droves.

Sharpton speaks for a lot of us poor Black folks. We would at least like to maintain the illusion that we have a horse in this race. Your Yuppie favorites just haven't quite grown on us yet.

Give it a rest or don't be surprised when a ton of voters you think you hold captive turn their back on this charade.

[bpilgrim]

20. the more targets the neoCONs and the corp media have to attack

the more diffuse their message and less likely to stick untill the primary proccess is complete.

i think this primary will be different and there will be a LOT of hangers-on, and where i normally might agree with your position - especially with lieberman - I don't in this circumstance and actually am GLAD that lieberman is among the hangers-on ;->

:hi:

peace

[PissedOffPollyana]

24. Sorry eric, gotta take serious offense

I refuse to let something I wrote stand as a defense to this repellant point of view.

So you prefer "backroom deals" to democracy? At last, a bit of honesty from the "stand by your man" club!

It is backroom deals that have given us a party that serves the corporate takeover of the US. You seem intelligent, don't you realize this? Do you realize that the "candidates" that we are being told to select are ones that have rejected public funding and cannot even go near this issue? If we are to actually be able to broach this issue, we need the very candidates you would like out of the race to be the motor behind the movement, not the deal-makers who are sucking as hard as they can on the corporate/party-regular teat.

If we are to be a Democratic party, we should at least give the impression of being democratic, shouldn't we? Or should we all just bow down at the altar of holy compromise?

It is not enough until the party actually honors its promise to put Americans first. It is not enough until they stop trying to sell us "outsiders" that are merely lesser-known members of the status quo. It is not enough until we run a campign based in these issues instead of pandering to closed crowds and shifting the message based on the audience.

Some of us have never been able to stomach the 3-card-Monte grift of "Now you see the liberal, now you don't" and finally want to see the platform we've been promised for decades. We don't want the backroom, back of the bus version of our issues being represented by the annointed choice of the enablers who pander to us but do not serve us.

THAT is just as much an issue as the source of the money they use to bludgeon us into giving up before the vote.

[arewethereyet]

17. I never had much respect for him but he's totally tanked to me

over his botching of the debate.

I said it before, Brit Hume has done the best job to date.

BRIT HUME !

Whats wrong with this picture ?

[Pastiche423]

18. W/the exception of holy joe

ALL candidates for president should remain until they, themselves decide to drop out.

These are our Democratic voices! Let them all be heard, damnit!

[PissedOffPollyana]

26. Smokin'Joe should be heard too.

I really don't get this idea that it is okay to eliminate voices from the discussion simply because they aren't OUR choice. I don't like Joe Lieberman any more than many of the people here, but I am sincerely offended by any suggestion that he should not be able to represent his supporters' opinions as the Big Table.

So the slightly more rightward "centrists" should shut up too? How many more groups should stop their illusions that the Democratic party represents them?

We should all be representing each other and nobody seems to recognize this. We need stop trying to cram party policy debate into this watered down version of the issues of the people that comprise it and serve none but those who convince us that it is better to just shut up and let ____ do our talking. We've played that before and it results in symbolic gestures that keep us in a position of submission to the ultimate symbol of who some would like to think we are, the soccer moms and nascar dads. Notice that both of those are actually minorities (who would like to think they aren't) and conveniently white and uptight? It allows us to serve our fears rather than what is right. It allows us to say that we are all for progress, but _____ will never go for it. It allows us to call progress unpopular and equality a pipedream.

If white folks don't represent black folks, straight folks don't represent gay folks, middle-class folks don't represent poorer folks we may as well change the sign on the door and call ourselves "The Party Formerly Known as Democratic"; perhaps somebody can come up with a spiffy symbol so they don't have to remind any of those 'soccer moms' and 'nascar dads' of their shameful history of seeing everyone as equals instead of rubes.

[WillyT]

22. What's REALLY Ironic, Is That Many Of Us Supported Koppel\Nightline...

when his own network was looking for ways to dump HIM when he wasn't getting enough 'support'. He ought to know good and well what it's like to be perceived as irrelavent.

Just fucking amazing, ya know???

:nuke::shrug::nuke:

[lostnfound]

23. Dennis Kucinich is co-chair of the largest Democratic caucus in the House

isn't he?

I just wish the media had to take small progressive groups as seriously as they take small reactionary groups. Just like people who say that only people who know nothing about politics support Kucinich. The fact is that some of us know too much about politics (and/or history) and that's why we support Kucinich.