Election 2004: GAME OVER

[progressiverealist]

What do people think? I am glad that Saddam is no longer at large. I am also glad that the economy is showing, I think, some real signs of rebounding. I am sincerely hoping that this means jobs in the near future.

Unfortunately, I am also about 95 % certain that Bush is now unbeatable in 2004. The economy is now a Republican strongsuit. I know it's not going to last, and that we're going to end up tanking because of all of the debt, but there seems to be no convincing Joe Sixpack. Same goes for Iraq. Most people don't give a rat's ass who dies as long as it isn't one of their kin.

I wonder what the best course of action is now. Go down fighting like hell or let this one go and re-group for the midterms in 2006? I was going to vote for Wes Clark because I thought he had the best chance of beating Bush. But now I don't think any of that matters. I'll probably vote for the guy I actually LIKE the best... Dennis K.

[frank frankly]

1. nope

It isn't over at all. This does not bring the troops home. That is what most people are now rooting for.

Don't believe the hype.

[progressiverealist]

5. hey I want them home more than anything

but now we're going to have one big goddamned national pep rally/ Bush love fest for a year and a half.

I'll bet the asshole's polls go back over 80% this week.

[frank frankly]

23. hey, i hear you

and i bet his approvals aren't above 60% a week from now.

people have woken up

[lancdem]

24. I seriously doubt they'll go that high

About 30 percent of the electorate strongly opposes Bush, and this doesn't change that. So his ratings likely won't surpass 70 percent. The high 60s might be his max.

[Silverhair]

44. I'm guessing about 60 -64%. However, I think it will have

more durability than the week or too that so many here are hoping for. And remember, any sitting President is able to make news too. He isn't going to sit back and try to coast until the election like his Dad did. He will be out hustling.

[rocktivity]

22. Exactly, frank

Bush still has to bring the troops home (there's no excuse for them to be there any longer, and the insurgents will have no one to fight once they're gone), turn the goverment over to the Iraqi people (let them decide how to govern themselves--that was the point), and worry about what Saddam might say if he's publicly tried. He'll get a bump, but he hasn't really accomplished the mission--make Iraq the home base for his take over of the Middle East and its oil for his rich friends.


rocknation

[soothsayer]

2. plenty o time for buscho to screw up

i predict mass hatred for him, not just from us, but from his supposed base

the neocons will overstep their bounds

he will get conflicting advice

they will throw him under the bus

[matcom]

3. good GAWD

how many idiots will post this tonight on DU?

[alcuno]

10. I hate to be indelicate, but it's called premature ejaculation.

It's a political phemomenon suffered mainly by Republicans but some Democrats as well.

[UrbScotty]

4. Cheer up! We still have nearly ELEVEN MONTHS

And look at this:

http://www.democraticunderground.com/discuss/duboard.php?az=show_topic&forum=104&topic_id=909608

[La_Serpiente]

6. That is what they said about Bush I

Be level headed and cool. That is all I have to say.

[QC]

11. Exactly! I was about to post the same.

A little more than a year before the 1992 election, Bush's approval rating was at almost 90%. (At that same point Clinton was in single digits among the Democratic primary contenders.)

The following November Bush got 38% of the popular vote, the worst total for an incumbent president since William Howard Taft.

A lot can happen in eleven months.

[UrbScotty]

18. And the Electoral College vote:

Clinton 370
Bush 168

Better than a 2-to-1 margin.

[economic justice]

26. VERY good point! Bush the elder was at 90% !! <eom>

[kstewart33]

7. Slow down, please

It's only been hours since Saddam's been caught, and already, the coffins are being built by the media for the Democratic Party. Perhaps before abandoning all hope, we should have the patience to see what develops?

[ayeshahaqqiqa]

8. Don't give up hope

For one thing, a lot can happen between now and the election. So far, this wonderful recovery hasn't generated a lot of new jobs, and the average salary has gone up only one cent this quarter. For another, we still don't know what is going to happen in Iraq. I'm taking a wait and see attitude. And there is a small matter of our rights being eroded via the Patriot Act and the fact that Repugs are freezing out Dems when it comes to legislation. And speaking of legislation, seniors are slowly realizing was a bad bill the Medicare bill was-and seniors tend to vote in higher numbers than other groups. So don't despair-we can, and will, win in 2004.

[Atman]

9. Please, please, do your research

>>"I am glad that Saddam is no longer at large. I am also glad that the economy is showing, I think, some real signs of rebounding. I am sincerely hoping that this means jobs in the near future."<<

I think you are giving the Propaganda Meister WAY too much credit. The numbers behind the press releases don't back up the headlines. But the Wal Mart Nation eats 'em up.

[progressiverealist]

19. I KNOW the numbers are cooked

but you're right... Wal-mart nation is what we're dealing with.

[Gemini Cat]

31. Then it's time for us to wake up the Walmart nation.

It's up to us.

I am not giving up.

:dem:

[Ksec]

20. agreed nt

[CWebster]

12. Doesn't take much to convince so many

No wonder this is always an uphill battle.

[Monte Carlo]

13. Nothing is f-ed, Dude.

This is all just a few modifications to the campaigns. What's the big deal? Saddam is captured, celebrate a little!

[maddezmom]

14. Game is just starting

:)

[LuminousX]

15. Okay. Thanks. I'll still vote and work to remove Bush.

[Virgil]

16. He did not win the last election

All the lies about his great business sense and brilliance of governor have alls surfaced as lies. The economy is not worth a crap even though a 10 billion dollar economy is made into an 11 billion dollar economy through debt. We have secrecy as official policy, a devil's deal with the media, a liar with books about him with liar in the title, an environment that has been raped, a war in violation of international law that makes Bu4h a war criminal and so on.

I cannot believe Bu$h can beat anybody no matter what the media whores spin/lie.

You should still be calling for his impeachment, much less talking stupidity like he will win. It is not going to happen. It is all a hoax like marijuana is a dangerous drug. It is bullshit and you are buying it and spreading it.

[Silverhair]

46. How do you plan to impeach Bush?

Just a reminder - The House and Senate both have Republician majorities, as does the SCOTUS. Now that I have reminded you of that minor fact of life, how do you plan to impeach him?

[liberalpress]

17. Remember..

King George Bush the First was unbeatable in January 1992

[tritsofme]

49. Not true,

by January 1992, poppy was in the 40% range.

[Cocoa]

21. no way

euphoria is going to give way to resentment. Troops are going to say what the fuck are we still doing here?

I'm enjoying the euphoria, it just raises the expectations for Bush. Same with the economy.

[camero]

25. We're going the way I'm dying.

And that's kicking and screaming.

[MnFats]

27. I think we can now count on Bush..

....to fuck things up badly. He will believe he's unbeatable and begin throwing his weight around, doing stupid things, saying stupid things and generally offending large blocks of people.
and don't you think more scandals are coming? there must be plenty.

I think now the media will -- after the saddam-capture honeymoon -- start to do its job....they always, on the surface, pursue horse-race journalism....and when they see bush way ahead, start to level the playing field.

bush won't even try to cover up or cloak his greed and avarice.

don't you believe that heis one of the worst, if not the worst, presidents of the last hundred years -- or of all time? many will come around to that point of view, believe me.

trust me, bush will fuck something up and be too oblivious to realize people are turning against him.


on the other hand, if i'm wrong, the thought of bush in a second term and unshackled by the need to be re-elected is too frightening to imagine.

[progressiverealist]

29. yes... Bush could really be the worst US president ever.

But these are strange times. It's like the entire country is under this wierd spell since 9/11.

[UrbScotty]

30. Actually, the spell started on 1/20/01, IMO. (nt)

[stevedeshazer]

41. IMO, 1/20/81 n/t

[NewJeffCT]

37. He hasn't done much to cover up his greed

Over the past 3 years.. and, he is still fairly popular despite scandal after scandal, raping the environment, lying about a war, stonewalling the 9/11 commission, turning a huge surplus into a huge deficit, etc, etc.

He could come out and tell the absolute truth and most of the media would bend over for him: "My 2005 tax cut is targeted solely for the rich and my biggest campaign contributers while cutting education fudning for the poor..."

[aquart]

28. You're wrong about the economy.

[arcane1]

32. the economy is rebounding?

:shrug:

that's news to me...

the only "signs" I've seen have been media-driven PR spin over the Holiday shopping...

the increasing number of vacant apartments in my bldg tells a different tale...

[moondust]

33. DEWEY WINS!!

I wouldn't wish it on anybody but one big terrorist attack will remind people that Iraq was a very, very costly diversion.

[Lastgasp]

34. Don't you think it's a bit too early for the funeral?

The Democratic Party isn't dead yet. Give us a chance. Jeeeez.

[chookie]

35. Gosh, I just don't know

Maybe sustaining democracy really is just a pipe dream, that human beings can't live up to. Maybe democracy can only exist for just short periods of time. They certainly have been few and far between. Look back at history, and generally the form of government you see is a form of despotism.

Maybe fascism really is the natural state of man. Americans certainly handed their freedoms over to Strong Men without a whole lot ado.

The majority of Americans don't seem to have the interest or inclination to participate in their democracy, or at least they have given up, which is what their masters *want* them to do, obviously. Maybe most people are quite comfortable living in a police state. Maybe it doesn't impact them directly -- yet, and they don't have enough sense of community to care about their fellow Americans. Most of us here have been pilloried as traitors deserving death by our fellow citizens! What has it all come to?

Sadly, these are questions I and others have been seriously wondering about.

Does that mean I have given up the fight? HELL NO! We're right, they're wrong.

The candidates running for the Democratic Party nomination -- including Senator Lieberman -- have all condemned His Chimperial Highness in very strong terms. They're calling him what he is -- a miserable failure, the worst president in our history.

I think all we have got left is to fight as hard as we can to expose this criminal administration. *We have to hope that Americans will reject Bush if they really knew the truth about him.*

*IF* they choose to permit him to continue his rule, or IF they allow him to steal an American election again -- then, by golly, I think it's safe to say that there has been a major shift in the nature of the American character, and that it has become dark, and dangerous, and betrayed what *we* at DU and elsewhere regard as the dream of Democracy, of Liberty and Justice For All.

I ask you all for your complete honesty and candor here: do you think that it is *possible* that if Bush is allowed to remain by the American people in next's years (potentially fraudulent) election, that things might actually improve, that America will be admired again, that we will enjoy peace and prosperity? Will we see better days in the years ahead?

After much soul searching, I must say that I do NOT believe that America will recover its moral standing or its prestige under Bush. What I think what will happen is that everything is going to get a hell of a lot worse, and that it's going to "be okay" with most people, because, as I suggested above, maybe the character of the American people has drastically changed.

I do not say that as a "loyal Democrat", or as a "Bush-hater" or as a partisan. I'm saying that because of my understanding of history, and my reading of how events are unfolding. I take no pleasure in assessing his administration as negatively as I do.

We sure as hell need an excellent strategy to take on the Bush Crime Family in the upcoming election. But what *might* be most important of all is to EXPOSE their lies, their nefarious hidden agenda, to lay out the probable consequences of their policies.

One thing I agree with smirky about is that we are involved in a generational struggle. Of course, we disagree over what that struggle is. I define it as the struggle between the surviving spirit of American democracy and justice versus Fascism in America. It's not going to be an easy thing, and I advise you all here that we may be in for a very long haul indeed.

Ironic that as American pretends to export democracy to Iraq, which had been ruled by a dictator through militarism and intimidation and a cult of personality, that our nation has been transformed into such a repressive, one-party state.

[OneTwentyoNine]

36. Yep,GAME OVER just like in 1992 Bill who???? n/t

...

[nradisic]

38. What the...?

What the hell are you smoking? Or do you live inder a rock. The only thing going for Bush today is that we got Saddam. Millions are unemployed, even more millions without Healthcare, the rich are getting richer, the poorer are getting poorer, our environment is being sold of to the highest bidder, Bush has pissed off million since loosing the ppopular vote in 2000...and you still think he's getting re-elected? I don't get it. Maybe its got soemthing to do with intellect? Well, you know what...look at Bush...he doesn't egt ti either...maybe it really is about intellect. Ignorance and arrogance combined are dangerous and scary...as we have seen.

Howard Dean 2004

[chookie]

39. Funny, that's what my "focus groups" say too

I follow this stuff really closely. I believe it is important to stay on top of things, and also to know what others are thinking.

From time to time, I make it a point to find out what people who do NOT follow events closely think about what is going on.

What has surprised me again and again is how widespread rejection of Bush is. While I am unsure about which way things are going to go, my far less informed sources tell me with absolute confidence that there is no way in HELL the bastard is going to get elected again. I think that's interesting.

[kayleybeth]

40. I don't understand why everyone wants to politicize Saddam's capture

I mean, it's great that they caught the bastard, but why is everyone reading so much into this like it's some sort of lethal blow to the Democratic party? It is what it is. They caught the bad man and that is a GOOD thing.

It doesn't change the fact that this war was based on lies. It doesn't change the fact that Iraq is in shambles and our soldiers are dying every day and this administration is remarkably without a viable exit strategy. It isn't going to change the fact that most of the world now hates us and thinks our leader is a greater threat to the world than Saddam EVER was.

It doesn't change the fact that 40 million Americans have no health insurance, 9 million are unemployed, poverty is on the rise, the states are all going broke, Ashcroft is using the constitution as toilet paper, and the friends of The Unelected One are making unfathomable fortunes rebuilding the unarmed country we just blew to bits in an illegal war.

Good for them, they caught Saddam, something they should have accomplished 8 months ago. I'm sorry, but I just can't manage to get worked up over it. I'm not saying it won't be a tough election next year because it will, but I doubt seriously if the capture of Saddam is going to be a deciding factor for very many voters.

Please try not to be discouraged. That's what they want, and we shouldn't give them the satisfaction. :0)

[ClassWarrior]

42. Hahahahahahahahaha!!!!!

Bush is 95% unbeatable now??!

Give me a break!!!

[rbnyc]

43. Don't Create That!

Nothing has really changed. It's all perception and reaction. You have the power to control your reaction and contribute to a positive perception. Stay positive.

[KelleyKramer]

45. 378,000 Americans lost their job last week

Not sure how anyone could say that the economy is showing "some real signs of rebounding" ??

http://briefing.com/Silver/Calendars/EconomicReleases/claims.htm


It would be easier to say that George Bush is losing over one-third of a million votes every week.

[WilliamPitt]

47. My ass.

[progressiverealist]

48. OK you folks are right...

that was pretty knee-jerk of me and not at all productive.

I'm feeling like the odds of winning just got longer but saying that we're already beaten was inaccurate and dumb.

Sorry.

[bubba_fett]

50. Things are hardly picking up..

barely. I guess in contrast to the horrible pit the economy is in, and our nations standing in the world today, yeah maybe....

One fact will always ring clear - One year of slight improvement does NOT make up for the three years that we were in the dumper.

bush can't just start giving a shit now, less than a year before the election, and actually think the majority of americans are going to fall for it.

[Beaker]

52. well, actually- yes he can...

"bush can't just start giving a shit now, less than a year before the election, and actually think the majority of americans are going to fall for it."

why not? they always have in the past.

[OneBlueSky]

51. you're absolutely right . . . the only thing we have going for us now . .

is the fact that the election is still almost a year away . . . in politics, a year is a lifetime, and there's ample opportunity for events to shift public opinion, or for Bush to screw up big time . . . it's unfortunate, but I think our only chance will be that some unforeseen event takes place that turns voters against Bush . . . all we can do is nominate the strongest possible candidate and cross our fingers . . .