Sincere Question for Dean Supporters

[Zomby Woof]

As concisely as possible, but with no outright restrictions on length, please tell me what kind of America you envision under Howard Dean's leadership.

Please try to tell me what kind of America his leadership will bring, using these questions as possible guidelines:

1. Will there be greater social justice?
2. Will there be greater economic justice?
3. Will our civil liberties be restored to pre-Oklahoma City and 9-11 levels?
4. Will agribusiness continue to marginalize the smaller family farms?
5. Will there be an attempt at restoring the Fairness Doctrine in the media?
6. Will there be an increase in the minimum wage?
7. Will education reform include scrapping NCLB? How about college tuition increases? Can that trend be reversed?
8. Will there be a restoration of stricter environmental laws?
9. Will the tax code merely restore the Clinton-era tax levels, or will be they truly be more progressive that that?
10. Will NAFTA and/or WTO be repealed, and if not, can their flaws be addressed and amended?
11. Will the defense budget undergo major cuts and priorities be rearranged so that a multilateral emphasis on defense can be restored? Will the domestic security budget face similar restructurings?
12. What is in store for Medicare? Can the current reform be scrapped for something better? Can Social Security's full benefits retirement age be reduced to 65 again?
13. Will there be further, and better, campaign finance reform?

A few restrictions:

Please try to avoid any answer which tells me he is "better than Bush", since that is a given. My big toe is better than Bush. I do not want a president who is merely better by default, and I know you don't either. Please also avoid "he is the only one who can beat Bush!" That detracts from the emphasis on issues and vision, and brings back the polling and horserace aspects I eschew.

Please do not quote or paraphrase platform soundbites, and then direct me to a link on his website, or a blog. I want YOUR thoughts, sprung fresh from your forehead like Athena.

Please be specific about what your vision is, and why Dean is the one who will help America fulfill it. Vague glittering generalities along the lines of how he makes you feel good are discouraged. I don't want Oprah-isms, I want ideals worthy of the framers.

Thanks in advance for participating. Let's also see if we can follow the rules of the Daily Democrat threads, and keep candidate flame wars on hold. I don't want to limit the participation to only Dean supporters, since I am not one myself. I just want to understand better where DU's Dean supporters are coming from, without sifting through all the acrimony and rancor in the flame threads. But anyone's insights are appreciated if they constructively engage my questions and a healthy dialogue.

</olive branch good for entire thread. :-)

Edit: Clarity

[Bertha Venation]

1. I'm sorry, Zomby, I'm not knowledgable enough to know the answers.

I wish I could participate on the level you've requested, but I can't.

[madfloridian]

2. I am not smart enough or good enough to answer like that.

Sorry.

[slinkerwink]

3. here's my take, ZW

1. Will there be greater social justice?
Yes, there'll be greater social justice under a Dean administration because of the low crime rate in his state, Vermont, which to me shows that he has the ability to understand how to lower crime rates which he did by investing in a program designed to help pre-school children succeed in school.
2. Will there be greater economic justice?
Yes, there'll be greater economic justice since Dean intends to reform the tax code to make it simpler and not so complicated for Americans to file their taxes. Also, in Vermont, Dean balanced the budget 11 years in a row, raised the minimum wage, and cut taxes twice in a row.
3. Will our civil liberties be restored to pre-Oklahoma City and 9-11 levels?
Dean wants to cut out parts of the Patriot Act that threaten civil liberties, and he's recognized the dangers of what has happened under the Bush administration by calling for partial repeal of the Patriot Act.
4. Will agribusiness continue to marginalize the smaller family farms?
I don't know exactly what his position is on agribusinesses, but I'd guess that since there are plenty of independent dairies/farms in Vermont, that he encourages smaller family farms.
5. Will there be an attempt at restoring the Fairness Doctrine in the media?
Yes, there'll be an attempt because Dean wants to break up the conglomerate of media companies so they don't control every station in the United States.
6. Will there be an increase in the minimum wage?
Since Dean increased minimum wage in Vermont, I think he'll do it again for the United States.
7. Will education reform include scrapping NCLB? How about college tuition increases? Can that trend be reversed?
Yes, Dean is against the NCLB and wants to lower college tuition increases by repealing the tax cuts. I need to do more research on that but you said you wanted the info from top of my head, ha.
8. Will there be a restoration of stricter environmental laws?
Yes, besides, any restoration of environmental laws has to be necessary if Dean plans on sticking it to Bush in the general election.
9. Will the tax code merely restore the Clinton-era tax levels, or will be they truly be more progressive that that?
They'll restore the Clinton-era tax levels, and when the budget is balanced, then there'll be tax cuts.
10. Will NAFTA and/or WTO be repealed, and if not, can their flaws be addressed and amended?
I'm not sure, but I think Dean wants fair trade by having standards for workers in the US and outside the US.
11. Will the defense budget undergo major cuts and priorities be rearranged so that a multilateral emphasis on defense can be restored? Will the domestic security budget face similar restructurings?
Dean plans to scrap funding for the STARS program, and that's a huge chunk of money that can be restored back to the economy. I think that the domestic security budget will get a higher priority than it ever has in the Bush administration.
12. What is in store for Medicare? Can the current reform be scrapped for something better? Can Social Security's full benefits retirement age be reduced to 65 again?
I'll have to do more research on the Medicare part.
13. Will there be further, and better, campaign finance reform?
So far, we're the best example of campaign finance reform. But for later, Dean wants stricter campaign finance reform laws.

[janx]

8. Slink, you're amazing.

I can help (off of the top of my head) about NAFTA and WTO. Dean does not want to scrap them entirely, but he does want to revamp them to make them fair and environmentally responsible.

This makes sense. Remember when, instead of trying for changes in the Kyoto treaty, Chimpy threw the whole thing into the waste basket? Remember the arrogance of that?

Tossing foreign agreements into the toilet, especially trade agreements, is not the wisest thing to do (My apologies to Kucinich, because I agree with him on a lot of things--just not this.)

A balance of pragmatism and diplomacy (not to mention a reasonable amount of tact and respect) goes a long way in foreign/trade policy.

[robbedvoter]

12. Best example of campaign finance reform? Huh?

"So far, we're the best example of campaign finance reform. But for later, Dean wants stricter campaign finance reform laws."
What campaign reform? Your guy broke it - saying it's in order to fight W - but he's spending over the state limits against fellow democrats. So, it will be a campaign reform - only for others? Confused.

[slinkerwink]

14. because 95% of Dean's campaign money comes from US

[DjTj]

29. Dean's campagin is the greatest example AGAINST campaign finance reform...

Apparently individuals CAN raise enough money to compete with big corporate donors.

...I think what Dean has shown us is that if you run a real grass-roots campaign, we don't need to create a complex system of rules for where campaign donations come from.

The rich will always find loopholes in any rules we make, and it's always the Democrats that are left holding the bag and constrained by the campaign finance rules.

Dean has showed us we don't need more rules, we just need to be smarter about how we fundraise.

[janx]

41. Whoa--watch that one. The loopholes in internet fundraising

will emerge soon. And I'm not talking about the Dean campaign (I'm a Dean supporter who has contributed online and via snailmail). The system will soon be exploited for political gain.

It's the nature of politics.

[DjTj]

62. ...but the real problem is simply the AMOUNT of money that can be raised..

...and Dean has shown that by reaching out the base, you can raise money from a large number of individuals that adds up to an amount comparable to Republicans.

I think the Republicans and their special interest groups have always simply had more money, and no campaign finance rules have successfully prevented that money from reaching Republican hands.

Before, only the Republicans had the organization and the existing network to raise that money but through the internet, the Dean campaign has shown that Democrats can do it too.

When it's a true war of ideas, I think the Democrats will have no problem raising as much money of the Republicans without rules that often hurt the rule-abiding Democrats more than it hurts the loophole-finding Republicans.

[janx]

52. State limits?

It's called DEMOCRACY.

[Myra]

13. Thanks for posting the great response slinkerwink!

Very informative.

[slinkerwink]

15. no problem!

:hi:

[Zomby Woof]

70. Yes

Plus, she got a great discussion going that is not only informative, but civil and respectful. It fulfills my intent, and encourages me to do more of these.

[VelmaD]

20. Pretty good answers slink, except for #1

You can't tie a program for pre-school kids to a lowered crime rate in a cause and effect relationship given the amount of time Dean was governor. Yes, that's the kind of program that can have an eventual impact on crime rates and I'm all in favor - but not in the short time-frame we're talking about where Dean was governor.

Also, I'm not sure that crime rates was what Zomby was talking about when he asked about social justice. I think the question was what will a Dean America look like in terms of racial and ethnic and gender equality? What will he do about discrimination? What will he do about creating a more just adn equitable society?

[janx]

25. His signing of the civil unions bill, --although it was not

*all* his doing--will attest to that pretty readily. He had to walk around wearing a bulletproof vest for a time after that one.

His support of pro-choice matters and Planned Parenthood would qualify to answer your question also.

His insistance that we have real, meaningful talk about race relations in this country (long overdue) and his support from the CBC and many others will attest to more. He wants to make racial profiling illegal. There's more. I'll post as I remember.

The guy is absolutely passionate about civil rights.

[janx]

28. His signing of the civil unions bill, --although it was not

*all* his doing--will attest to that pretty readily. He had to walk around wearing a bulletproof vest for a time after that one.

His support of pro-choice matters and Planned Parenthood would qualify to answer your question also.

His insistance that we have real, meaningful talk about race relations in this country (long overdue) and his support from the CBC and many others will attest to more. He wants to make racial profiling illegal. There's more. I'll post as I remember.

The guy is absolutely passionate about civil rights.

[jumptheshadow]

72. You continue to impress me

Thanks for your input and your continuing efforts to build bridges.

Your patience and your class make you a wonderful asset to the Dean campaign.

I wish more people, in all the campaigns, were as savvy and effective as you are. You have to have a lot of respect for a candidate who can attract as hard-working and commonsensical a supporter as you.

[Zomby Woof]

81. Thank you slinkerwink!

Thanks for answering, and allow me a few questions in return.

Yes, there'll be greater social justice under a Dean administration because of the low crime rate in his state, Vermont, which to me shows that he has the ability to understand how to lower crime rates which he did by investing in a program designed to help pre-school children succeed in school.

Is this program akin to Head Start? Does Dean support Head Start, or strengthening it? Head Start was one of the best programs to come out of the Great Society, and it suffered some setbacks with Reagan's 80's cuts, and even more under Chimpy. I hope Dean does advocate better funding of Head Start on the federal level.


Yes, there'll be greater economic justice since Dean intends to reform the tax code to make it simpler and not so complicated for Americans to file their taxes. Also, in Vermont, Dean balanced the budget 11 years in a row, raised the minimum wage, and cut taxes twice in a row.

Does Vermont have a balanced budget amendment in their state constitution? This is not a knock, but if he was mandated by law to balance it, can that count as an accomplishment? I remember Clinton using the "I balanced my state budget every year" comment in his platform in '92, but Arkansas has a balanced budget requirement in their constitution, so I always felt that it was a bit sly of Clinton to make that claim as his own. If Vermont does not require it, great. I can understand why both Clinton and Dean wanted to play up their balanced budgets - to contrast with the reckless spending of the GOP for 12 years. The public was concerned about the deficits. So "sly" is not bad, it's good politics. Best of all, Clinton DID balance the budget, and brought surpluses. In a way, the state requirement lend themselves to practice.

Other issues...

Though Vermont has plenty of small farms, as you said, he is probably learning in Iowa that agribusiness has a major impact on midwestern crop farming, and a major occupier of cropland. They are major polluters and GOP donors. Small farmers can be rather cynical, because they have seen candidate after candidate make lots of promises in Iowa year after year, to little avail, and then there is the thorny issues of subsidies. And debts. The longstanding mohair subsidy was finally eliminated in the 90's, without much effect. But even the smallest steps like that are political landmines fraught with upsetting many fragile balances. It isn't easy campaigning in Iowa.

If Dean wins Iowa, that means he made inroads with lots of small and mid-sized independent farmers. If he doesn't, that isn't too alarming for him, because they tend to vote with regional favorites (Gephardt, Harkin, etc.) over "outsiders". Lots of people get the nomination without winning Iowa.

Glad thathe favors getting rid of NCLB. As a former teacher, I can tell you, that kind of approach to funding and curriculum is the worst. Teaching to the test, then punishing the districts with punitive funding mandates.

Anyway, glad you gave it a go. :-)

[Name removed]

4. Deleted message

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[Name removed]

9. Deleted message

Message removed by moderator. Click here to review the message board rules.

[LuminousX]

5. How is this sincere?

[Zomby Woof]

21. Because I asked serious questions

Go ahead, tackle 'em. I triple dog dare ya.

[LuminousX]

31. But the answers won't convince anyone one way or another

All it does is open up more meaningless debate. Ask someone to build a sandcastle so it can be knocked down. The answer to these questions can be found on the Dean For America website.

[Zomby Woof]

48. You need to break from the evangelical mindset

This isn't about conversion, changing anyone's mind, or kicking down anyone's sandcastles. This is about DISCUSSION, as in the name of the forum. Discussion allows people who disagree to see where the other is coming from, to foster tolerance, and just maybe, the ability to see something in a new way. Tolerance and civility have been in short supply around here, and I include myself in that criticism.

It's just that in hundreds of Dean threads, pro or con, I rarely see the issues discussed in terms of what they mean to the supporter (or detractor). Not how he makes you feel. But how YOU see America, and what you want for it. Then, if Dean will help you get there.

This will be done, I decided in fairness, for all of the candidates.

You are doing exactly what I feared in my original post. You are telling me to do my homework and read his site. I don't want that, I've done that. I want to know what Dean supporters envision for America under his administration. I want to know if he appeals to you beyond his ability to raise money, speak passionately, or "fight Bush back hard". I want to know WHY you think he can help fulfill YOUR vision of an ideal America. Not his. Yours.

So far, many people have done a fine job of saying so. I think it is counter-productive and distracting to question my motives.

I had NO criticism of Dean in my post, nor anywhere else in this thread.

No gift horse, my friend. This mouth always delivers the Zomby Troof. ;-)

[DuctapeFatwa]

6. Good Questions!

I'd like to see the same for all the candidates :)

[Zomby Woof]

22. I am considering that

I want to see how this goes. I am partisan when I am partisan, and fair when I am fair.

Tonight, I am fair. ;-)

[DuctapeFatwa]

33. The answers you are getting are interesting, I may do one

to ask why people support candidates when they aren't sure of the answers to these questions.

I don't support any of the candidates, so I have no axe to grind :)

[Rose Siding]

7. "ideals worthy of the framers"?

I fall short :cry:

[Zomby Woof]

23. don't misunderestimate yourself

Just put on a powdered wig and go for it. :-)

[LWolf]

10. Good questions.

And kudos to slinkerwink for answers.

[slinkerwink]

16. no problem!

[lastliberalintexas]

11. Crystal ball

So many of your questions require a great deal of speculation, but I'll give it a shot at some. BTW- are you going to do something like this for all the candidates (sans Dennis), or is this yet another stab at Dean supporters today?

1. Will there be greater social justice?

Greater than what? Than what we have, certainly (and I'm not comparing him to Shrub, just the US as is). He at least wants to reform the health care industry, increase regulation of insurance companies and implement the beginnings of a universal health care system. No, it isn't as good as Kucinich's- but it's better than the other candidates. He also wants to implement the more progressive tax structure we had under Clinton, close the offshore and other corporate tax loopholes companies take advantage of, and balance the budget when feasible. The last might sound strange to you- you might even wonder why I'd classify it as just. Well, high debt loads and/or payments on the debt tend to drive up interest rates, take monies which could/should be used for social programs b/c of the high debt servicing fees, and invariably mean a transfer of tax dollars to the wealthy (via bonds) or to foreign gov'ts. I could add more, but that is at least a start. Is he perfect? No. Are any of our candidates? No. But I think if we lefties accomplish nothing else in the next four years, that reforming the health care system and tax rates can greatly improve the quality of life for the middle/working class and poor. So, greater, yes; ideal, no.

2. Will there be greater economic justice?

See response to #1.

3. Will our civil liberties be restored to pre-Oklahoma City and 9-11 levels?

Not certain. Dean has said he'd like to scrap the Patriot Act, and is a libertarian type when it comes to Constitutional rights. But I'd need a more question to answer completely.

4. Will agribusiness continue to marginalize the smaller family farms?
5. Will there be an attempt at restoring the Fairness Doctrine in the media?
6. Will there be an increase in the minimum wage?

I'm not sure of his exact positions on these issues, so I'll leave for a hopefully more informed supporter.

7. Will education reform include scrapping NCLB? How about college tuition increases? Can that trend be reversed?

Yes, he has said repeatedly that he wants to work to repeal NCLB. If I remember correctly, Vermont even declined federal funding so that its districts could continue to operate free of NCLB? He seems to think that NCLB is a disaster, and from everything I've heard I have to agree. In fact, I had a meeting with a teacher client of mine today and heard the ever increasing horror stories of Texas teachers who have been subject to this same kind of system for many years. NCLB is awful, and can't be fixed just by fully funding it. I have also heard him say that he'd like to see increased federal funding for colleges and grant/loan monies. College tuition is mostly a state issue, though- but if you implement a better tax code at the federal level so that state taxes don't have to be unbearably high just to maintain basic services, you free up a lot of money for colleges.

8. Will there be a restoration of stricter environmental laws?

9. Will the tax code merely restore the Clinton-era tax levels, or will be they truly be more progressive that that?

He has said Clinton era, though I am hoping that we Dems/progressives can convince him to go further. I'm personally not happy with a return to those levels, and would like to see us go further. I'm not sure what his final stance will be on the tax issue, if we can get him to go further left on it or not.

10. Will NAFTA and/or WTO be repealed, and if not, can their flaws be addressed and amended?

He has said they need to be revised. I think many of NAFTA's problems could be taken care of with amendments and changes to the tax code. I'm not sure that goes far enough with the WTO treaty though.

11. Will the defense budget undergo major cuts and priorities be rearranged so that a multilateral emphasis on defense can be restored? Will the domestic security budget face similar restructurings?

Major cuts? Probably not. The only candidate who has the nerve to say that is Dennis. But Dean has said that we need to look at where we spend the money. And personally, I'd be ok with giving raises to the low level personnel who currently qualify for food stamps. He's also said that we should be focused on the defense of the nation rather than imperialistic ventures, so I think a complete refocus might happen under his watch. Again, not as good as Kucinich on this issue.

12. What is in store for Medicare? Can the current reform be scrapped for something better? Can Social Security's full benefits retirement age be reduced to 65 again?
13. Will there be further, and better, campaign finance reform?

Ok, I'm just tired of typing now. Maybe I can come back in a little while and add some more. Hope this helps anyway. :)

[Zomby Woof]

26. great reply

I am glad you overcame your suspicions about it being a "stab at Dean". I don't see how it is, since I kept it issues-related, unlike... Ted Koppel. :-) I think the questions are salient for all of the candidates equally, and cover both domestic and foreign policy.

I also kept my personal opinions about Dean, his stance, and his supporters out of the post. I have done that to death already.

Also note for all the hits I have taken against Dean, I have NEVER started a flame-bait thread about him. Never will either.

I may do this for all of the candidates, even Kucinich, since I am posing the questions, and not answering them.

Plus, I wanted to re-emphasize those are guidelines, and the posters can frame the answers any way they like, for any issues they like.

[lastliberalintexas]

32. No, I didn't

think it was a stab at Dean, so much as one at his supporters. You know the accusation- that we're wholly uninformed about his positions and are only part of the cult b/c we've drunk the kool-aid. :)

Glad to see you didn't intend it as such.

And I doubt that I need to add anything, since others have attempted to answer the Qs I was unsure of. And I actually learned something, since I'd not heard about the 2 increases in Vermont's minimum wage. So thank you for the thread. And it would be good for the other candidates too, so long as it can remain acrimony free!

[Zomby Woof]

44. The tone of this thread

Is up to the individual poster. I am ignoring people not contributing to the dialogue. Others have worthy answers that I want to address after more thought.

But I think this is going well enough to tackle someone else next.

[alcuno]

17. Come on Zomby Wolf, I've already graduated from college.

I'm done with homework assignments, term papers, mid-terms, and finals. I'll just say "yes" to all and be done with it.

[CWebster]

18. Why don't you just ask if he walks on water?

Will he be perfect? No. Darboy's thread says it well.

[Zomby Woof]

27. I saw darboy's thread

It would have fit in here nicely, so if he is reading this, he may be excused. :-)

[KaraokeKarlton]

19. No problem...

1. Will there be greater social justice?

Yes there will be. Social justice is something Dean has always stood for. Civil Unions was a perfect example of his willingness to put his neck on the line for social justice.

2. Will there be greater economic justice?

Yes. What people fail to mention when the talk about Dean's intentions of repealing the tax cuts is that he also intends to reform the tax system to be more fair and take the unfair burden off the middle class.

3. Will our civil liberties be restored to pre-Oklahoma City and 9-11 levels?

For the most part, yes. I do think SOME of the Patriot Act issues will remain, but under Dean they will NOT be abused.

4. Will agribusiness continue to marginalize the smaller family farms?

Dean has always worked to protect family farms.

5. Will there be an attempt at restoring the Fairness Doctrine in the media?

Yes, Dean criticized strongly the deregulation of the media.

6. Will there be an increase in the minimum wage?

Definitely. Dean has already said he wants to raise it nationally. He raised Vermont's minimum wage twice during his time as governor.

7. Will education reform include scrapping NCLB? How about college tuition increases? Can that trend be reversed?

Dean hates NCLB. THe only way the trend will be reversed is if the federal govt. does it's part in helping fund education, as Dean has promised to do. The tax cuts have to go, too, so we can afford to help states.

8. Will there be a restoration of stricter environmental laws?

Vermont's standards are tougher than Kyoto, so yes.

9. Will the tax code merely restore the Clinton-era tax levels, or will be they truly be more progressive that that?

First they will go back to where they were when Clinton was in office. Once some of the mess is cleaned up and big business tax crooks are dealt with, there will definitely be reform.

10. Will NAFTA and/or WTO be repealed, and if not, can their flaws be addressed and amended?

Dean will work his butt off to renegotiate trade agreements. He's certainly not above threatening to back out if he doesn't get what he wants. He will do what needs to be done to protect jobs here at home.

11. Will the defense budget undergo major cuts and priorities be rearranged so that a multilateral emphasis on defense can be restored? Will the domestic security budget face similar restructurings?

Dean has already said he would NOT fund Star Wars and that he would redirect some of the defense budget towards renewable energy. Dean will definitely make sure the military is strong and ready, but whatever waste he finds will be cut or redirected to renewable energy or something much more respectable than it's currently being used for...like looking through some of those containers coming into our ports.

12. What is in store for Medicare? Can the current reform be scrapped for something better? Can Social Security's full benefits retirement age be reduced to 65 again?

Providing health care to those who don't have it has been Dean's passion throughout his political career. He will tweak the rules so that more people qualify for the services they need, along with making it easier for seniors to get home care covered if they want it and it's feasible. Vermont seniors already have a drug benefit and has for quite awhile. It's unlikely that anyone can reduce the age back to 65 realistically. Dean has mentioned something about creating some kind of universal retirement plan for people that will make up for what social security lacks. Sadly, I don't know the details, but what I heard sounded pretty good. Wish I could remember more.

13. Will there be further, and better, campaign finance reform?

I think Dean's campaign IS campaign finance reform, ironically. But yes, Dean has always supported it and if there is a way to make sure it happens and it will work effectively without any loopholes, he'll be behind it 100%.

[PassingFair]

30. Holy Cow, you guys...

By the time I dug up my old password, put the kids to bed and logged in, you'd answered all Zomby's questions. Kudos!
Might I add... that except for the bizarre, silver-haired, ex-racist, eloquent, Senator Byrd; very few dared to stand up to this criminal administration to the degree that Dean did.
Not Dashle, not LIeberman, not Kerry, not Gephardt . I sat in my car and CRIED the day that the votes were counted in the senate, giving * the green light to attack Iraq.
For me, Dean was the proverbial voice in the wilderness, and win or lose, I thank and support him for that. He has raised the bar in this election, and in a race where some vow "Anyone But Bush", I am astonished to have the chance to work and vote for the first candidate that I feel has spoken directly for ME.
Dean was the first of the candidates to push the idea of health care for children.
He was the first candidate I heard directly accuse * and his minions of waging war for oil.
If it were not for Howard Dean, I wouldn't be aware of the despicable henchmen of the DLC, headed by the aptly gothic pair, From and Reed. I was not aware of how negatively our country had been affected by a Democratic Party that had compromised itself by playing footsie with corporations like Enron and World Com.
I was not aware...
Now:
I believe that Howard Dean will reach out to other nations and try to smooth out the damage that the * administration has done to our diplomatic relations.
I believe that he will restore confidence in our economy.
I believe that he will turn us away from the megalomaniacal intentions of the Wolfowicz, Pearl, Bush, Kristol (Policy for a New Imperialist Society chickenhawks.
Knock him if you will, for now , he remains the only CLEAR voice for me. When he says "We ought not to be ashamed" to be Democrats, he speaks for me.

[calimary]

88. Holy Cow, PassingFair!

A great post! Sure resonates with me.

I also looked - I guess - one level down from him, as in, what do we have to show for the eleven years he ran Vermont? This from a NON-Vermonter (although I did question one guy who'd moved here to California from Vermont and had nothing but good things to say about his ex-governor). Can't answer them all. Can try with the ones wherein I think I'm steady.

Civil rights/human rights: The fact that he signed the civil unions measure, and that he did so under fire. The fact that he supports a woman's right to choose. The fact that, as a doctor, he sees the human health condition up close and personal. No wonder every kid aged 18 and under had health insurance under him. And, not to bring up an old wound, but let's bring up an old wound: his statement about the Confederate flag - what it said to me was a recognition of a REALITY: Even such a fellow as he described has the same family concerns and deep-down issues that bind us all. If Jesse Jackson Junior and the CBC can live with it, what stink should I make? Besides, we've had more than enough from the guy who declared himself to be "a uniter, not a divider."

NAFTA etc: I have heard and read that he wants to renegotiate NAFTA for more fairness and environmental protection. I also get a sort of - what? - viceral (?) sense of him as being a doctor who studied and then went into practice. He went to school and earned the proper grades. While being born into comfort, what I have heard of him is that he wasn't afraid to earn his own way. He's got a working wife whom he treats with respect, and as an equal. I, too, have a husband who is not threatened by what I've done professionally, and is also supportive of my keeping my maiden name. He not only encouraged it from the day of his proposal, but said he wouldn't want to have to change his name if that were the presumed custom. Howard Dean's relationship to his wife reminds me a lot of my marriage. And if Dr. Steinberg's man is anything like mine, we've got a winner. That, by the way, also tells you something of civil rights. He's also been governor of a state that sends the only Socialist to Congress. That speaks of widespread tolerance and nonjudgmentalism to me, of which we need MORE! And MORE good templates of it!

Environment: Well, I have heard and read that he ticked off hard-core environmentalists AND developers just about equally, and all sides got bones thrown to them pretty evenly. For another thing, I wouldn't imagine a state that prides itself, and distinguishes itself, on its scenic countrysides and towns and autumn vistas would flirt too hard with polluters and/or overdevelopment.

Economy: His track record in Vermont seems for real. In the red when he took over. In the black when he left. Somehow, along the way, they managed to fund health care for the kids, not gut the schools, not sell the forests and the maple sugar trees down the river for short-term profit, and - from what I'm led to understand - and even with what I believe was, at one point, a tax increase - two tax cuts in a row in there as well. (I do remember reading something that described him as leveling with Vermonters that they couldn't get away with low taxes and well-funded schools anymore, so he raised property taxes on out of state folks who had all their vacation homes there. Also shows willingness to confront a problem with a reasonable solution.) And forgive my memory fart here, but wasn't it in Vermont, while he was still there, that they fought off a big WalMart encroachment in order to keep the ma & pa operations preserved and the small town intact?

Other aspects PassingFair points out are equally vital. I've already posted around here, plenty, about the "other Howard" effect - Howard Beale from the movie "Network" and the "I'm Mad as Hell..." refrain, and how MUCH it speaks for me in this climate of pink tutu Dems.

But remember this: we DO have some indications of how the guy things, acts, lives, and works. To do that, you not only have to be that, yourself, but you have to enable that more broadly by assembling around you the same kind of folks as you and yours are. The people you know you have to believe in enough, or share enough with, to work with, effectively, together. By thy friends art thou known. Look at team bush. Look at their agendas, their pasts, and where their money comes/came from. That tells you TONS! Dean would bring his style and substance of people in with him. We'd have different people staffing the departments - no Rummys or Condis or Ashcrofts or Nortons. It'd be quite different. And yes, he COULD go to the UN and say - "Your attention please! We are now under new management." I look forward to springtime returning to America, thanks to a guy from the Northeast.

Just my two cents.

[Eloriel]

35. Superb response. Thanks. n/t

[KaraokeKarlton]

38. You're welcome

n/t

[littlejoe]

24. yes, yes, yes, no, yes, yes, maybe, yes, yes, don't know, doubt it.

[Eloriel]

34. I'll play, BUT

I'm not going to do your homework for you. If you are "sincerely" inerested in the ansers to these questions but too freaking lazy to do a little digging on your own, I'm certainly not going to play your research assistant. Besides, I'm typing with only my left hand these days -- annoying, tiring, and terribly awkward. (And screw the typos, too.)

I disagree with lastliberal that so many of your questions require speculation, except in the sense of what any Dem prez can do with a Repug Congress (but Dean is working on that already).

1. Will there be greater social justice?
Absolutely. He has a record of it, so it's not just talk. Someone posted here that welfare reform in VT HELPED her and friends of hers get off welfare and every one in the program had their own personalized program. Sounds like a much more sensible approach than my state. "Social justice requires fiscal responsibility," which I agree with wholeheartedly. If you have balanced nudgets and a vibrant economy, you can spend money on the public good. He covered all the children in VT with health ins., and seniors up to 150% of the poverty level with prescription drugs. He started a program that costs about $100 per year per child which has cut child abuse by 43% and child sexual abuse by 70%. This will result in a savings to VT from substance abuse, addiction, teen pregnancies, broken marriages, and prison terms and costs because all these societal problems and costs are directly associated with child abuse. The savings from this one program are literally incalculable but raise the quality of life for all Vermonters. He wants to do this across the U.S.


2. Will there be greater economic justice?
Yes. See above plus he is very much in favor of progressive taxation, but wants to attack the deficits so we can get there from here. Anyone who hasn't seen Krugman on any shows tlking about his new book may not quite understand what desperate circumstances weare heading into. Krugman literally voices concern about the continued existence of the U.S. if we don't fix this thing. I believe Dean and other candidates have consulted with him, esp. from some of the things Dean has said.

3. Will our civil liberties be restored to pre-Oklahoma City and 9-11 levels?
Probably not to pre-OK, but I don't know for sure. He's on record against the unConstitutional parts of Patriot.

4. Will agribusiness continue to marginalize the smaller family farms?
I have no idea. However, I do know that people in rural areas have voiced strong support and approval of his rural plan.


5. Will there be an attempt at restoring the Fairness Doctrine in the media?
Absolutely. He's big on this and also media conglomeration, which he really "got" when he saw what happened to the DixieChicks.

6. Will there be an increase in the minimum wage?
I don't know that he's addressed it specifically, or that he hasn't.


7. Will education reform include scrapping NCLB? How about college tuition increases? Can that trend be reversed?
Absolutely on NCLB. He links the tax cuts to iuncreased property and other state taxes and higher tuition, pointing out that people didn't really GET a tax in those circumstances. He has talked about tuition help, but I don't remember trhe details.


8. Will there be a restoration of stricter environmental laws?
Absolutely, and he talks about it frequently.


9. Will the tax code merely restore the Clinton-era tax levels, or will be they truly be more progressive that that?
Clinton-era --> lowered deficits + healthcare then restructring the whole tax code incl. corporations to make it all more f air is my understanding.

10. Will NAFTA and/or WTO be repealed, and if not, can their flaws be addressed and amended?
No repeal, but rebehotiated to include "nvironmental, labor and health/safety protections. I know Kucinich says you can't renegotiate, so I don't know how this will play out, but that's Dean's posn. Hell, Bush pulled out of plenty of int'l agreements, why can't we do the same re bad trade deals?


11. Will the defense budget undergo major cuts and priorities be rearranged so that a multilateral emphasis on defense can be restored? Will the domestic security budget face similar restructurings?
He doesn't call for cuts, but for using the money differently, incl for Homeland Security (which is underfunded, incl girst responders, as you may know).


12. What is in store for Medicare? Can the current reform be scrapped for something better? Can Social Security's full benefits retirement age be reduced to 65 again?
He was savage in his criticism of the Prescription Bevefits Medicare boondoggle gift to pharmaceuticals. He used Medicare for VT's children"s program, so he's pretty solidly behind it. I haven't heard about SSN, except that he wants it protected and safe. He is outraged that the neocons basically want to dismantle The New Deal, which he wanys to preserve and protect.

13. Will there be further, and better, campaign finance reform?
Absolutely, and he mebtions that frequently too.

He also wants to move us to renewable energy, put wind turbines un the Plains sta tes, use more ethanol, etc., plus invest in new technology and grow a lot of jobs thereby AND reduce or eliminate our dependence on oil, esp. Saudi oil since it funds terrorists.

He wants to expand small businesses' ability to get loans so they can grow and expand because they create more jobs than large corps and those jobs don't get sent overseas.

He wants to create tax disadvantages so businesses woint go offshore to avoid taxes, and I believe also re m0vng jobs overseas, tho that will also be covered under fair trade. "If an auto nfgr moves its jobs to Mexico, then the Auto Workers should be able to go to Mexico to organize those workers."

He wants to restore sense of community (and you have to read some of his speeches, which he writes himself, to understand what he's talking about 'cause I'm runnung out of steam); increase civic participaation in politics and govt; heal the racial, gender, sexual orientation divisions among us; AND among other things not even mentioned, take back the party, the White House and the Country.

And so do I.

[KaraokeKarlton]

37. I'm the one who benefitted personally from VT Welfare Reform

As someone who was stuck in the welfare trap it really bothers me when people hear the words "Welfare Reform" and automatically assume it's a bad thing. Not all welfare reform is created equal. Dean had the foresight to get a waiver and address it early so that he had more control over things. We have a great program that actually WORKS to get people off welfare. The participation requirements are very low for people with small children at home or other issues that make it hard to participate. The Vermont program doesn't just stick people in demeaning jobs that no one else wants to do, either. The goal is to really help people become financially independent and secure, and anyone who honestly wants to turn their lives around is given all the support they need and all the opportunity they could hope for. All they need to do is want a better life.

[Eloriel]

46. Thank you.

[Zomby Woof]

40. Was the opening salvo really necessary?

My my. Sets the tone just nicely.

This isn't about MY inability or unwillingness to uncover Dean's positions on the issues. I have done that, or I wouldn't oppose his candidacy. This is a chance for me to establish a dialogue, without hostility, defensiveness, touchiness, or other barriers to effective communication. I want to know, beyond the blog entries, the "empowerment" mantra, and the "odds of beating Bush" factor, why Dean appeals to his supporters.

Issues and vision-based answers, from YOU. Not the media, not a website, not a blog, not gut reaction.

Glad you answered, despite your initial reservations.

But lazy is one thing I ain't. ;-)

[KaraokeKarlton]

43. Zomby, is there a reason you're asking all this?

If I didn't know better I'd say you're considering voting Dean in the primary.

[Zomby Woof]

45. I will be voting for DK in the primaries

My support of Dennis Kucinich is ironclad and set in stone. He gets my vote in February. I am a volunteer with his Arizona campaign, and deeply committed to his candidacy.

The answers to your questions can be found in my reply to Eloriel, the original post, and scattered here and there throughout the thread.

I ask out of intellectual curiosity and to establish a meaningful dialogue. 99% of the candidate threads are flame wars and mutual strokefests. I rarely glean any substantive policy debates out of them. There HAS to be life beyond "POOP".

I was very pleased that a Dean supporter in this thread claimed to have learned two new things about their own candidate. Now if a so-called "Dean-basher" can accomplish that, then there is a silver lining for GD after all, ya think?

I have nothing bad to say about Dean in this thread, so I respectfully say: He is not getting my vote in the primaries.

[KaraokeKarlton]

47. I was just wondering

Kucinich supporters usually oppose the war very strongly. In light of all the "opposing the war was political suicide" nonsense running rampant today I thought you might be considering voting for Dean just because he has more support and is more in line with your chosen candidate on this issue.

I'm not one of those who get indignant if someone supports someone other than Dean. I only get that way when someone attacks or lies about him or my state. Everyone who is respectful towards me gets respect back. Anyone who acts like an ass sees my snarky side. :D

Personally, I think those claiming the capture of Saddam changes everything are wrong.

[Eloriel]

49. AFAIC

You've wasted all your previous chances to establish a meaningful dialog and have no chances left with me.

So don't rag on me about tone.

Put another way: if that was your "sincere" goal you should've started with an apology.

[Zomby Woof]

57. That's your choice

Others are not so petty with their grievances with me. ;-)

Funny that I had no chances, yet you felt compelled to give me your 2 cents, but hey, open forum, and it keeps the thread kicked. :evilgrin:

I owe no one an apology for being true to myself, nor for being an outspoken Democrat and progressive.

[mrgorth]

36. Cliff notes

1. Will there be greater social justice?

Yes

2. Will there be greater economic justice?

Yes

3. Will our civil liberties be restored to pre-Oklahoma City and 9-11 levels?

Not sure. Better than now at least.

4. Will agribusiness continue to marginalize the smaller family farms?

If so, at a much slower rate. I wanna say no though.

5. Will there be an attempt at restoring the Fairness Doctrine in the media?

Yes.

6. Will there be an increase in the minimum wage?

Yes.

7. Will education reform include scrapping NCLB? How about college tuition increases? Can that trend be reversed?

Yes. Not sure.

8. Will there be a restoration of stricter environmental laws?

Oh yes.

9. Will the tax code merely restore the Clinton-era tax levels, or will be they truly be more progressive that that?

Don't know. Going to Clinton-era is the start.

10. Will NAFTA and/or WTO be repealed, and if not, can their flaws be addressed and amended?

The attempt will be to amend.

11. Will the defense budget undergo major cuts and priorities be rearranged so that a multilateral emphasis on defense can be restored? Will the domestic security budget face similar restructurings?

I'm sure it will undergo change but I would not look for major slashes.

12. What is in store for Medicare? Can the current reform be scrapped for something better? Can Social Security's full benefits retirement age be reduced to 65 again?

I hope so.

13. Will there be further, and better, campaign finance reform?

Yes.

[janx]

54. That's the short version, yes.

Thanks for posting it.

[HuckleB]

39. I am too drunk to reply now.

I'll be in clinic for 20 hours tomorrow, and I doubt this thread will be around after that, but, I do wonder why you asked this only of Dean supporters, rather than a more general question of supporters of all nine of the candidates. It does seem a bit less sincere, with the focus on one candidate.

Just saying.

Terminal Gravity's holiday brew is rather good, by the way. So is Anchor Steam's, not that you didn't already know that, I'm sure.

Oh, and, for all the "Coward" Dean groupies, I skied 27 miles in backcountry around Mt. Hood today, with my bad back -- the same bad back that was rejected by the Air Force 17 years ago.

Just saying.

[Zomby Woof]

42. I think the reason is obvious

I am well-known for my opposition to the Dean candidacy. I would like to ask the vision question of all the supporters, but starting with the Dean folks is the most logical place to begin. One candidate at a time.

If I did all of the candidates at once, it would be too chaotic and more conducive to flame wars. I really do not want that.

Maybe it's because you're drunk, but it's precisely the kind of defensive slams about your skiing that turn off many of us a little more skeptical of Dean, and invites the vicious cycle of flames and bullshit to continue.

If you want to change the tone of the debate, it starts with YOU.

Just saying.

[HuckleB]

83. Thanks for redefining what I wrote into a "slam."

It was quite sincere, and since the issue of Dean's back is brought up over and over and over again, quite appropriate, considering my day's activity. Further, it was quite lighthearted, yet you pull out the hard-ass routine in response. Why am I always shocked by such responses? I dunno. I guess my eternal hope parlays into eternal naivete about "discussion" online. To note that you jump into a lecture about "it starting with me" in the same post truly strikes me as cynical.

Further, you offered no evidence that you would ask these questions of every candidate, so I'm sorry if find the whole series of questions a bit cynical. And, yes, why start with Dean, if your intention is to positive, since you are opposed to Dean? Why not start with your personal fave? Now that would have been truly positive.

Just saying.

[Zomby Woof]

84. simple advice

You posted drunk. Bad move. You came across angry and snotty, whether that was your intention or not. So don't post drunk if you want to be taken seriously.

I wasn't slamming you at all, just being as firm with you as you claimed to be with me.

I sure have learned a lot in this thread, yes indeed.

[HuckleB]

90. Sorry.

I've reread the post, it wasn't any of those things. I called you on this thread and your response to my post fair and square. I guess you don't like being called out, but that's not my problem. That's yours. There is no question that your response was an attempt to slam me, as it had no humor in it whatsoever. It was hardly a reasonable response to my first post, so please don't deny it. And please don't give me condescending "advice," when all you're doing is failing to come clean.

[Hep]

50. Good questions for any candidate.

One wonders why the questions are only posed for Dean.

[LuminousX]

53. Exactly my concern

Setting up for the attack. Explain yourself, Dean voter.

[Hep]

55. We see this FAKE objectivity

When will we see some REAL objectivity?

[Zomby Woof]

61. what's fake about it?

Just read my words, and forget about my motive. Answer the questions or don't. If it makes you feel good to lower the tone of discourse in this thread, then by all means, knock yourself out.

Do you want to set an example of what good discussion is all about, or do you want to continue on your present course?

Prove me wrong. Prove I am being "fake" (More than a few hundred DUers who have read my posts for over 2 years, and I may excite every emotion on the spectrum from bad to good, but my authenticity is beyond reproach).

Contribute to this thread in a positive way, or continue to bump it to page one with sarcastic asides. The third choice is to ignore it and not post at all. Pretty simple menu there.

[Hep]

66. It's FAKE objectivity

when it appears to be a sincere, concerned list of questions but is only addresses to one candidate.

An expression of REAL objectivity would be to remove all references to one candidate and ask people to answer on behalf of WHOEVER they support, because it applies evenly to EVERY candidate.

And I'm not questioning YOUR authenticity. I'm questioning the authenticity of your questions.

[Zomby Woof]

60. Again

I was hoping against hope you would prove me wrong. I am giving you a golden chance to do something beyond a mutual circle jerk with your comrades in arms, or to fight off an attack post, and allow you a CLEAN SLATE in which you can express your support of Dean in personal terms, related to the issues.

Instead, you shortchange yourself with paranoia and suspicion about my motives. Notice that MANY Dean supporters took my offer in good faith, and gave me detailed and thoughtful replies. I hope I can continue a reasonable dialogue with them beyond this thread. I will try on my part.

Read ALL of my replies in here, and if you still have any objections to my intent, then don't post. Or do post, because any kick is a good kick. ;-)

This was YOUR chance to do good. You still have a chance, before this thread sinks into the archives. :-)

[Hep]

67. It's easy enough to dismiss

our comments as mere paranoia. It would have been just as easy to leave the spolight broad enough for nine people.

[Zomby Woof]

69. I like doing things my way

No one is stopping you from doing your own thread with all nine candidates, if you wish.

I mentioned elsewhere why I started with Dean, and didn't sugarcoat it. I am not pretending I never engaged in flame wars or cheap shots. But I also had some worthwhile posts, and I thought maybe I could start a worthwhile thread.

For the record, for all the disagreeable things I said about Dean, I have NEVER started a flamebait thread about him, EVER. Can you say the same when it comes to the candidates you oppose? ;-)

[Hep]

73. And no one is stopping me from making observations about your OP

So why you gettin' all worked up about it?

Yeah I saw. You MAY do this with others. But you didn't. You have Dean on the brain. So even when you try your hardest to make a worthwhile thread, you go and ruin it by making it about Dean. Ask yourself seriously. In the past week, whose name have you typed more often? Dean or your guy's, whoever that is (avatars don't pop up on the reply screen). And ask yourself if the answer to that is significant.

And yes, I have never started a flamwar. And I spend more time defending my guy than attacking anyone. And yeah, I'm proud of that.

[Zomby Woof]

75. I believe you are projecting

I am not worked up at all. I am mellow, and have been quite amused with your outbursts at me. :-) Laughing hard enough to get my cat to look up at me from his nap.

Sorry I ruined the thread by "making it about Dean". Happens when you name a thread "A Sincere Question About Dean". :think:

You may have the last word if you wish - it keeps the thread alive. :thumbsup:

[Hep]

76. In that case, the last words will be

You didn't deny my Dean on the brain theory.

Step 1. Admit you have a problem.

[Zomby Woof]

59. One wonders if you read any of my posts in here

One wonders if you really care about a civil discussion, or just came to piss in the wind.

I have answered the "Why Dean?" question a few times in here. If you were trying to stir the pot in here, you failed.

Now, would you like to impress me with your intellectual acumen and tell me what Howard Dean means to your vision of America, or can I just expect more snide potshots?

Your failure to participate constructively in this thread is your loss, and the Dean campaign's loss, not mine. :-)

[Hep]

68. Where I piss is really none of your concern

You may have answered it elsewhere, but you haven't answered it to me.

I've posted my thoughts on Dean and don't find myself compelled to do so a thirtieth time to satisfy your whim du jour. It was a well thought out post, except for the Dean part.

Whether or not I'm contributing positively, no matter. I'm keeping the thread bumped for you, and I'm getting the chance to point out again just how ridiculous it is that well meaning people still can't have a serious topic about politics without making it about Dean.

[Zomby Woof]

71. I thought that since you supported Dean

You would welcome a serious discussion about him, free of flames and innuendoes, and substantially civil and informative.

Apparently, you enjoy the taste of sour grapes quite strongly, and I just hope for your sake, you don't choke on them. :toast:

[Hep]

74. No such thing as a serious discussion

on the internet. As if I were to think that I would be persuading anyone with my answers. I give answers to those with REAL objectivity about the issue, as I've explained elsewhere. And just so that you don't think I'm trying to be abusive, I have no doubt in my mind that you are an objective person, that you thoughtfuully consider all pertinant sides of an issue before making a decision. I just think you're past that point WRT the primary debate.

That whole sour grapes thing is weak. What do I have sour grapes about. I'm not the one who doesn't support the fruntrunner but can't stop talking about him. Seems like every time you post his name you get a sour taste in your mouth. What did you think that was?

[Zomby Woof]

78. every time?

Find one sentence in this thread I say anything about Dean that could be construed as sour. One.

You can't, because like Santa Claus, it doesn't exist. ;-)

Thanks again for the threadkick (or threadjack, as it were).

I look forward to reading more tomorrow. :hi:

[Hep]

79. I'm not talking about sourness IN the words

I'm talking about the aftertaste. Sleep well.

[SadEagle]

51. On 8.

It isn't quite the restoration of laws, since frankly they weren't changed much --- most of the changes were done by fiat, through pure executive authority --- but during the Florida convention, when Dean was asked about what he would do the first day in office, he said he would reverse all of dubya's executive orders on the environment.

On 13:
See http://www.deanforamerica.com/site/PageServer?pagename=policy_policy_campaignfinance

Basically, he advocates extending the public financing system, and making it encourage the matching of smaller donations, and some concepts of more public access to media..

And really, with all due respect, the candidate web sites have issue pages for a reason ;-)

To pick one more example, though, for 1:
"I will work for federal legislation to restore the right to vote in any federal election for ex-felons who have paid their debt to society. "

[Zomby Woof]

63. sigh

First, thanks for answering with your best face forward, I do welcome it.

Second, you are about the 4th or 5th person to tell me to read the issues site, when I SPECIFICALLY MENTION I AM NOT LOOKING FOR ANY REFERRALS (the caps are to broadcast this loudly since so many are missing the point).

I KNOW where Dean stands. I am not looking for his supporters to provide me with briefs and recaps. I can do that on my own.

See slinkerwink's post as an example of what I am looking for. She didn't just recite his platform from his website - she SHOWED me that she can relate his stances to what resonates with her vision of America! You don't have to format it like her, show some individuality. She did what she thought worked for her, and she understood my intent nicely.

Man, I would have no patience if some of you were my reading comprehension students. :D F's for anyone who tells me to check the website!

Now then, read all of the posts in this thread, and THEN ask me if I can clarify anything for you.

Again, thanks for contributing POSITIVELY. :-)

[Ecotopian]

56. Bring our Country back to the Center!

I want the political spectrum to shift back to a more lighter shade of gray. Maybe afterwards we can shift to an even lighter color that shows some genuine enlightened thought towards justice, equality, and improving the environment.

I love what Kucinich says and would love to live in the world he outlines. However there are two problems that we have right now. One, he doesn't appear to be a man capable of carrying his vision through and leading the nation to those lofty goals. Two, he's the ideal liberal candidate. Even though I love what he says because I'm liberal, what our country NEEDS is to return to the spirit of bi-partisanship, cooperation, good will towards all, malice towards none, and international justice. If we flip-flop from one extreme of the political spectrum to the other, it will be a quick form of change that doesn't have the needed buy-ins by the conservatives and will only excarebate our polarized partisanship. This is why we need to move back to the center. In short, we need to take the steam out of the neocons and bring the conservatives back to the table so that they will listen.

I support Dean not because I like everything about the guy. He's so Clintonian that he might make some compromises that I won't like. However I feel that he won't give away as much of the store as the others will and that he will be a pacifying agent to the neocons. As for other candidates, the only other strong one that I see is Clark. However I don't trust someone right now who views the world through the military prism of mailed fist diplomacy.

Right now we need a politician who can mend our nations wounds domestically and our bonds of friendship with other nations, not a warrior to deepen them with more blood-letting. This election is not only about kicking GWB out, it's about whether America supports the neocon Pax Americana ideology or the liberal International Community ideology based on our country's liberal democratic traditions.

[Zomby Woof]

64. Welcome to DU!

:toast: on me.

I appreciate your honesty, and for understanding the intent of this thread. I hope you like it here, and we'll probably cross paths in all kinds of threads.

Be sure to check ALL of the forums. It's the ultimate liberal buffet. :-)

[Sugarbleus]

80. NOT! Take it to the real LEFT for a change!

Cut the money grubbing for a change. Everything is about the almighty $$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$ There IS life outside of wealth accumulation. We need to slow down and stop reaching for MORE than is necessary to enjoy life and raise healthy well balanced children.
STOP THE GREED

[Lobo_13]

58. I'll take a stab at it.

1. Social Justice

Not the day after the inauguration. But considering his history, we'll be able to make a start of it. For more info: see next

2. Economic Justice

Absolutely. It's not a coincidence that our we experienced unprecedented economic growth when we got on the road to a balanced budget. But more importantly, economic justice is really how we achieve social justice.

3. Will our civil liberties be restored to pre-Oklahoma City and 9-11 levels?

Tricky question. The Patriot Act needs to go, but there are common sense precautions that can be implemented under a different bill that might infringe on our convenience, but not our rights.

4. Will agribusiness continue to marginalize the smaller family farms?

Like it's been said before, Dean has the bona fides to show that he's concerned about the family farms more than big ag. But it's also part of a larger theme of increasing the number of small and medium businesses over large corporations.

5. Will there be an attempt at restoring the Fairness Doctrine in the media?

Specifically a restoration, probably not. But he has gone on record as being against corporate consolidation of media outlets and will appoint people to the FCC that will accomplish that.

6. Will there be an increase in the minimum wage?

He did it twice in Vermont, I see no reason why he won't put it on the table as President.

7. Will education reform include scrapping NCLB? How about college tuition increases? Can that trend be reversed?

Absolutely. I worked for the school district when this was passed and every person in the building thought it was the most horrible thing you could inflict on a school system. The extreme tuition increases of the last few years have been a reflection of the economy of the states. All of which, (except VT) are still facing tremendous deficits. They also don't have the luxury of deficit spending as most have balanced budget amendments. Instead of giving huge tax cuts, just a portion of that money would have been far better spent on helping state governments deal with their problems. Dean proposes to do just that, give the states money to fund public works projects that will employ people. He's going to fully restore funding for pell grants and set up a new system for repaying student loans that won't make it so onerous on a new graduate.

8. Will there be a restoration of stricter environmental laws?

Absolutely. And this may come as a shock to those that think he's a strong environmentalist, but he's willing and able to balance the needs of the environment with the needs of the economy. Environmentalists won't get everything they want, neither will business interests, but they'll get a happy medium. And they'll like it, or else.

9. Will the tax code merely restore the Clinton-era tax levels, or will be they truly be more progressive that that?

Right now, I think he's following the idea of first restoring the Clinton tax levels because it's a proven system. I strongly suspect that once things are back on track and we've made some headway in balancing the budget, there could be a modest cut in the cards. Just like he did in VT. I won't cry in my soup if he doesn't cut taxes, though.

10. Will NAFTA and/or WTO be repealed, and if not, can their flaws be addressed and amended?

Repealed, no. He has a point when he says that nothing we can do will stop globalization. But he's spot on when he says that they only work when all of the players are on a reasonably equal footing. NAFTA has done tremendous things as far as trade with Canada is concerned. But a larger view of requiring worker and environmental protections is that it will make us safer. People who are fat and happy are less likely to want to blow us up.

11. Will the defense budget undergo major cuts and priorities be rearranged so that a multilateral emphasis on defense can be restored? Will the domestic security budget face similar restructurings?

There probably will be cuts at some point, but it will probably be confined to efficiency concerns and waste. He's a big supporter of a strong military, but national security concerns are not just about boomsticks. He's planning on shifting resources into R&D for alternative energy and shifted to domestic security like cargo inspections. I think he's more than capable of directing the money to be spent wisely and efficiently.

12. What is in store for Medicare? Can the current reform be scrapped for something better? Can Social Security's full benefits retirement age be reduced to 65 again?

Medicare used to be fine. I'm sure he'll work to repeal the current reforms. I wouldn't expect him to push for all out reform, but he'll probably tweak the system to increase coverage and fix some glaring problems like reimbursement rates in rural states.

13. Will there be further, and better, campaign finance reform?

He supports stronger campaign finance reform. And I would also like to point out that HE wasn't the first one to break from the system. Bush was. He followed suit because it was the only way to defend himself after he (hopefully) locks up the nomination.

Hope that works for you.

[Zomby Woof]

65. it worked beautifully

Thank you for taking up the spirit of the thread in which it was intended, and for taking me at my word. :-)

Things CAN be civil here, but it does take hard work - I know, because I fall short from time to time myself. Still, it is worth it when I read reasoned-out posts like yours.

[FDRrocks]

77. He's weak imo....

he has never been anything but. He tries to appeal to all angled but I am not joing the same tent as the southern rascists (treasonists) that he tries to appeal to.

Seriously. Dean is a joke. He is a gumbi Dem who will stretch to appeal to whoever he can get, as long as they aren't left. The guys with confederate flags on thier cars are likely rascist.

[PissedOffPollyana]

82. Thank you for a great idea & thread!

I am so happy to see at least a few Dean supporters who are willing to frame their support in terms that reflect their understanding of his policies. It is a fabulous change of pace in the discussion and one that I welcome wholeheartedly.

In the end, no matter what the outcome, we must find a way to work together and discussions like this are the seeds of that. I cannot say that I don't have serious concerns about Dean, because I do. I won't say that I have even more serious concerns over the overall tone of the campaign and its proponents, because I have them in spades. But I can say that I want to be able to forge some level of tolerance and understanding among the different segments of the party, if nothing else to see where some room might be made for the issues that really matter to me. I've got to say, I've had more than enough of the condescention toward progressive ideals and candidates and it has given me a greater sense of detachment to the "mainstream" elements of the party. I hope, like you do, that conversations like this can retake the tone back to one of intelligent and respectful discourse. It is required if we stand any chance of mending fences at the end of the process; no matter how strong anyone thinks their candidate is, every one of them will need every iota of support from within. We cannot afford to turn anyone off with the sort of irrational and under-informed histrionics we've seen here of late.

If nothing else, discussions like this can serve as a means for even supporters of candidates to become more educated about their choices. Mind you, I worry about anyone that would support a candidate and not be able to reply with some detail about such basic issues. Maybe it's just me, but I researched all the candidates at length and read all the websites' (even Smokin'Joe, just to be fair) issues sections in their entirety. This is not a student council election; there are serious potentially life-changing differences between ALL the candidates. If we are to vote, we have a responsibility to do so based on reality, real positions with a plan to go with them and the reliability of those positions based on knowledge of the candidates' records. People don't win elections, no matter who they are... ideas do.

I'm happy to get to read some from the Dean camp & look forward to threads for the others. It's good to see each of them from individual voters' perspectives; I know mine already!

[Zomby Woof]

85. Thank you PHDiva!

I appreciate a sincere and thoughtful response.

It has gone well, although not perfectly, for some people used this thread as an opportunity to showcase their petty grievances with the messenger, rather than the message.

Instructional on many, many levels. :-)

Hope you can engage a Dean supporter in a dialogue with your post. Thanks again, and a belated welcoem to DU! :hi:

[PissedOffPollyana]

86. Well, there is always hope.

I have tried to keep my aggitation at bay and get to the heart of the appeal (on a rational level) of this particular candidate. I guess that's why I keep trying to get to the issues and not even get into any personal issues I may have with what I think of the man himself. I have voted for plenty of politicians I didn't like, but respected and knew would do the job right & fairly. It doesn't seem like a lot to ask but kudos for taking the knocks and keeping such a peaceful demeanor. I'm glad to see you and most all of the Kucinich supporters representing him and the ideals we are campaigning for so well.

I am hoping for more responses... this is the best and most substantial thread I have seen yet for the man we are being told we should crown our nominee. I guess we damned progressives are good for something around here afterall! **snicker**

[veracity]

87. Some very good points. but...

The problem remains that this is a very different election. It's no longer about a candidate, but about saving the nation and its place in the world. The goal has to be to oust Bush, and the criterion has to be whether or not the nominee has that ability. At the moment, - IMHO, the only possibility is a Dean/Clark ticket. If there is any debate on that, - great. I'm open to ideas and information. But the haggling over who is better than whom is an intellectual exercise we simply can't afford. It's got to be about who can beat Bush and his incumbency + 200 million to spend on selling more lies to the nation.

So, while I'm not arguing the correctness of your post...it makes good sense in ordinary times. These are extraordinary times, and it will do us no good to identify some candidate who can do something postive in every single area you name, but who has no chance whatsoever of being elected.

I wish this were not the case, but it is.

[Rainbows]

89. Very Good Thread ...

The response in Post 82 'PHDiva has detailed most of my comments well. I like you am solid DK through the primaries and hopefully beyond. I would like to comment about one thing after reading this thread, that is though I do have some reservations about Dean, the serious responses to your post were quite informative well reasoned and although they will not sway my allegiance while DK is in the hunt, I will say Dean is now my second choice.
Another thing I have learned from this thread is how unproductive the flame wars and circle jerk threads are, that on occasions I have participated and flamed and jerked myself. A little work I need to do on myself.
If I ever learn how maybe I'll put one of those saying at the bottom of my posts that says, ... 'DK is the dream, second choice Dean'.
Thanks again for the great post, and excellant moderation.