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Saddam and Our definition of Bravery: a poll

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hlthe2b Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Dec-15-03 08:19 AM
Original message
Poll question: Saddam and Our definition of Bravery: a poll
Edited on Mon Dec-15-03 08:29 AM by hlthe2b
Just an empiric question here. This poll is not in defense of Saddam by any means


Many in the Arab world and in the US, consider Saddam to be a coward given his surrender to US forces rather than commit suicide (or to have fought against the incredible odds, which would essentially equate to suicide). Given that he now faces horrific humiliation, the possibility of public execution, and probably has little reason to live now, anyway, I'm not so sure. Not to confuse "honor" with "courage," here. Arguably removing himself totally from the world stage and the Iraqi's future might be construed as the "honorable" thing to do.

With respect to Saddam's allowing himself to be captured alive, does this one act make him a coward?
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GRocky Donating Member (60 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Dec-15-03 08:24 AM
Response to Original message
1. Saddam has always been a coward.
Except when he was on our side.
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Syncronaut Seven Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Dec-15-03 08:26 AM
Response to Original message
2. The battles not over yet,
Saddam has a few embarassing secrets to tell.
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Bucky Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Dec-15-03 08:28 AM
Response to Original message
3. Dammit, why is there no "Clark" option on this poll?
I refuse to participate to protest this outrage.
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hlthe2b Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Dec-15-03 08:30 AM
Response to Reply #3
4. We'll give him the "first shot"
so-to-speak! :evilgrin:
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Tinoire Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Dec-15-03 08:37 AM
Response to Original message
5. Poll only valid if you believe the lies they're telling about this capture
Edited on Mon Dec-15-03 08:39 AM by Tinoire
Personally, I prefer to believe Devka's version. It makes a LOT more sense than this Hollywood script. I don't believe he was captured like that at all and strongly believe this entire circus is the real reason Bush went to meet with Chalabi on Thanksgiving day.




Devka has a reasonable analysis of the whole thing:
Devka: Indications Saddam Was Not in Hiding But a Captive

Disclaimer: My take on Devka is that they are 70% Mossad disinformation & 30% truth. Problem is it's hard to tell which is which. This report however makes a lot of sense!

==============

AA number of questions are raised by the incredibly bedraggled, tired and crushed condition of this once savage, dapper and pampered ruler who was discovered in a hole in the ground on Saturday, December 13:

  • The length and state of his hair indicated he had not seen a barber or even had a shampoo for several weeks.
  • The wild state of his beard indicated he had not shaved for the same period
  • The hole dug in the floor of a cellar in a farm compound near Tikrit was primitive indeed – 6ft across and 8ft across with minimal sanitary arrangements - a far cry from his opulent palaces.
  • Saddam looked beaten and hungry.
  • Detained trying to escape were two unidentified men. Left with him were two AK-47 assault guns and a pistol, none of which were used.
  • The hole had only one opening. It was not only camouflaged with mud and bricks – it was blocked. He could not have climbed out without someone on the outside removing the covering.
  • And most important, $750,000 in 100-dollar notes were found with him (a pittance for his captors who expected a $25m reward)– but no communications equipment of any kind, whether cell phone or even a carrier pigeon for contacting the outside world.

According to DEBKAfile analysts, these seven anomalies point to one conclusion: Saddam Hussein was not in hiding; he was a prisoner.

After his last audiotaped message was delivered and aired over al Arabiya TV on Sunday November 16, on the occasion of Ramadan, Saddam was seized, possibly with the connivance of his own men, and held in that hole in Adwar for three weeks or more, which would have accounted for his appearance and condition. Meanwhile, his captors bargained for the $25 m prize the Americans promised for information leading to his capture alive or dead. The negotiations were mediated by Jalal Talabani’s Kurdish PUK militia.


These circumstances would explain the ex-ruler’s docility – described by Lt.Gen. Ricardo Sanchez as “resignation” – in the face of his capture by US forces. He must have regarded them as his rescuers and would have greeted them with relief.

From Gen. Sanchez’s evasive answers to questions on the $25m bounty, it may be inferred that the Americans and Kurds took advantage of the negotiations with Saddam’s abductors to move in close and capture him on their own account, for three reasons:

  • His capture had become a matter of national pride for the Americans. No kudos would have been attached to his handover by a local gang of bounty-seekers or criminals. The country would have been swept anew with rumors that the big hero Saddam was again betrayed by the people he trusted, just as in the war.
  • It was vital to catch his kidnappers unawares so as to make sure Saddam was taken alive. They might well have killed him and demanded the prize for his body. But they made sure he had no means of taking his own life and may have kept him sedated.
  • During the weeks he is presumed to have been in captivity, guerrilla activity declined markedly – especially in the Sunni Triangle towns of Falluja, Ramadi and Balad - while surging outside this flashpoint region – in Mosul in the north and Najef, Nasseriya and Hilla in the south. It was important for the coalition to lay hands on him before the epicenter of the violence turned back towards Baghdad and the center of the Sunni Triangle.

<snip>

http://www.debka.com/article.php?aid=743

And here's the cave- thanks to Crisco for posting this:

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hlthe2b Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Dec-15-03 08:43 AM
Response to Reply #5
6. interesting.... I guess with our version of PRAVDA reporting...
and the BFEE controling public access to Saddam's statments, we'll never get the true story........?
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Tinoire Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Dec-15-03 11:17 AM
Response to Reply #6
10. Though in answer to your poll
I answered in the spirit of the question and voted no.

The real coward... well we know what country he's in ;)
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Nederland Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Dec-15-03 11:17 AM
Response to Reply #5
11. Debka?
Please tell me you are joking...
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hlthe2b Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Dec-15-03 11:12 AM
Response to Original message
7. kick
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jpgray Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Dec-15-03 11:13 AM
Response to Original message
8. All survivalist politicians are cowards (nt)
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DinahMoeHum Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Dec-15-03 11:17 AM
Response to Original message
9. Methinks this snake still has a fang left. . .to spill the beans
about his dirty dealings with the Reagan and Bush I administrations.

:evilgrin:
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