What would Bush be doing today if he grew up in Edwards's or Kucinich's...

[AP]

...or Clinton's or Clark's or Gephardt's or Sharpton's or Lieberman's or Mosley-Braun's family?

What if he grew up in Kerry's, Dean's, or Gore's family?

[Bluzmann57]

1. Same thing he does now

He'd be shoveling manure.

[arcane1]

2. he'd be doing time

for cocaine, illegal abortions, desertion during a time of war...

to name a few

if only...

[AP]

5. Very funny.

And true.

He has a few nieces, nephews, and daughters you could say almost the same thing about.

[NewJeffCT]

15. illegal abortions?

I've heard coke and desertion...

[arcane1]

16. it's been said he paid for one back in the day

also said the girl was like 25 at the time

it's one of the many interesting tidbits that Flynt dug up in 2000

[realFedUp]

3. Does he have any skills?

Pushing paper somewhere...

[JohnKleeb]

4. Shoveling shit in Louisana

:7
I dont think we would know he is, I really respect those candiates who weren't so lucky growing up but they took what life gave them, and look where they are now, I dont think a young Dennis Kucinich expected to be here, nor did any of the others who grew up poor.
BTW I did NOT steal what I said from Bluz, I got it from Patton.

[Bombtrack]

6. His family is pretty similar to Kerry, Dean, and Gore

not to the others however

[sandnsea]

22. Kerry's father was not rich

Kerry did not grow up in the lap of luxury. His aunt paid for his schooling. He worked in college. They certainly weren't in the category of Gephardt or Edwards, but he wasn't in the category of the Dean's or Bush's either. It wasn't until family wealth was passed down later that Kerry got any real money.

[JohnKleeb]

24. Would I be correct in saying that Kerry grew up upper middle class

because there is that photo of him on the Kennedy's boat. I know he did work during his summers though, I have read that. Thanks in advance.

[sandnsea]

33. His dad was a diplomat

His extended family had money. I really don't know how he got on Kennedy's boat. Whether it was because of his dad's job or the family money or a combination.

I would definitely say upper middle class, maybe better than that. Just not Paris Hilton rich, that's all.

[AP]

7. OK, now what kind all those middle and working class people be like

if they grew up in Bush's family?

Or if Kerry's or Gore's families?

[dsc]

8. Who knows

maybe he would have been endowed with a sense of hard work. But it should be noted that Gore wasn't rich. That is a right wing talking point. He grew up sharing a bedroom, in a two bedroom apartment, in a cheap hotel. If you don't believe me go to www.dailyhowler.com and search under Gore. Gore's father was a politician but hardly a wealthy one. It should also be noted that both Dean and Kerry took significantly harder roads than they had to. Both didn't go into family businesses but instead earned their own way into different careers.

[JohnKleeb]

9. Gore's father I know was a schoolteacher before going to DC

[dsc]

11. and a tobacco farmer

which is not a terribly lucrative occupation.

[JohnKleeb]

12. Yes that too

The older Gore was a self made man.

[AP]

14. Dean went into the family business -- Wall St -- after getting bored

skiing. He got bored of the family business too and became a doctor. He got bored of that too.

Gore's family lived in DC while senate was in session and had a tobacco farm back home. Gore's father started off poor, but finished rich. Gore benefitted a great deal from who and what his father did, almost to the detriment of his own personal development.

Ask yourself what you think motivates Gore to do what he does. What does he have at stake?

[dsc]

18. Give me a freaking break

First Dean was still a practicing doctor when Shiling died. He was told while with a patient. Now unless you are accusing Dean of having murdered Shilling, which I think is a bit much even for you, that makes your statement that Dean got bored being a doctor idiocy. He also worked hard to get that medical degree.

As to Gore, he stayed in a cheap hotel in DC. It was so cheap the government used it to put up its employees. Gore's dad died rich by working hard and saving. Good for him. But he was not rich in any way shape or form. When he was defeated for the Senate in 1970, the salary was $42,500. Yes a decent amount of money but hardly a huge amount of money.

http://www.senate.gov/artandhistory/history/common/briefing/senate_salaries.htm

And that was a huge increase from the 1969 level of $30,000. Yep Gore's dad made the massive sum of $30,000 for the last part of his career. That is so much money. I bet they vacationed on Mars and drank champaign every day of the year. Gore didn't grow up rich and I would appreciate it if you didn't spread this right wing talking point just to try to help Edwards.

[AP]

19. Gore's father was a government employee. Not all gov't employees are

middle class. Look at Bush's cabinet.

I'm not going to debate with you whether Gore, the son of a Senator, grew up privieleged.

But I do wonder what would have happened to Edwards if he had gotten to go to Harvard and Sidwell Friends and his father was a Senator.

How much was Gore's dad making off the tobacco farm during those years, by the way?

[dsc]

21. No why on earth would you look at the link I provided?

Why on earth would you bother to even check the facts before using right wing talking points to slam Gore? I mean why should I expect a modicum of decency? I am so sorry to have expected you to even bother to look.

[AP]

23. I'm looking for the table of Gore's Tobacco farm earnings.

A table of senate salaries tells me little.

Are you really saying that Gore wasn't privileged?

[dsc]

27. Yes

I don't think people who grow up sharing a bedroom in a cheap hotel are priviledged. And yes, that is exactly what even right wing reporters were saying before the press decided Gore really grew up at the Ritz. Again, if you don't believe me go to www.dailyhowler.com and look for yourself. BTW tobacco farming is not very lucrative at all. That is why the government has had to subsidize it. Even now cigarrettes would cost around 50 cents a pack but for taxes. Given profits and middlemen that doesn't leave a whole lot for the farmer.

[AP]

28. The right wing angle is not that Gore was privieleged when he wasn't.

The right wing angle was helping Bush use Gore's background to destroy any possibility that people would vote against the Republicans on the issue of class.

Gore was no Clinton. Gore's father was a Senator and owned a valuable tobacco farm and Gore never had to worry about a job or wealth or anything his entire life. Gore was the wrong person to run against Bush (as is Dean) because they can't make the class arguments and the class contrast.

dsc, it's not right wing to acknowledge this.

[dsc]

30. that is a load of crap

and again go look at the daily howler or are you too scared to. The man did not grow up priviledged. And BTW I know one hell of a lot of farmers and the word priviledged sure ain't how I would describe them.

[AP]

34. Calm down.

I read the DH pieces when they came out. I know that Gore didn't grow up as rich as Bush made it seem. Nonetheless, he grew up with WAY more privieleges than 99.9% of Americans.

This is WHY he couldn't make a class-based compare and contrast with Bush stick.

Do you really deny this?

Gore's father died with over a million bucks in oil stocks alone (Occidental?), right?

This is silly to argue this.

Did Gore go to Sidwell Friends and Harvard on scholarships? Were Gore's kids on scholarships and financial aid when they went to Sidwell Friends and Harvard? Where'd Gore get his cash? He's been in gov't all his life.

[dsc]

36. Gore made a 6 figure salary in government

and his wife was gainfully employed. That might be where he got the money. But in his childhood he wasn't rich. My grandfather had around 250k in stocks. He got lucky and invested wisely. Occidental increased in value greatly in the 1980's and the elder Gore got that stock from being on the board of Occidental (which he was after Gore grew up). BTW Gore went to St Albans not Sidwell Friends. But in any case I have no idea if it was a scholarship or not. They may well have scrimped and saved to send him. Current tuition is around 25k back then it presumedly would have been lower. Say it was a third that would be 8k which would be affordable, though a stretch on a salary of 30k.

[AP]

37. Board memberships. Hmm. How do you get on a board?

What do you get paid? That must be a sweet deal.

[NoMoreRedInk]

35. This is how Al Gore, Sr. got rich

He owned a tobacco farm in middle Tennessee from (I'm guessing here), the mid 1940's until he sold it (or part of it) or left it to his kids. He was poor when he got started, but he bought the land for its agricultural value.

By agricultural value, I mean you could pay off the note in 5-7 years with earnings from the land. He probably sold portions of it to developers or other farms at some point for its market value, which is alot higher now than its agricultural value was then. Even if he didn't sell it, the land is now an extremely valuable asset.

I know this because my grandfather was a tobacco farmer in Giles Co., Tennessee (middle TN) who probably got started about the same time as Al, Sr. He bought about 750 acres of land throughout the 1940's for a total of about $20,000 (it's agricultural value). He paid for it, with earnings off the land, in less than 7 years.

My family still owns it, and it's worth well over $2 million, and free and clear of all debts.

Al's farm was in Murfreesboro (or Carthage, I think), and is much more valuable per acre than my family's farm because now it is virtually a suburb of Nashville.

Agricultural value of land is now a thing of the past, which is why the only farms today are those passed down from generations past or the huge corporate farms that are run more efficiently than you can imagine.

But if you owned land in the 1940's and sell it now, it's like cashing in a PowerBall ticket.

Al Gore grew up rich, relative to his peers, no matter how you cut it.

[AP]

38. Thanks for the details. Over to you dsc.

Retort?

[Cat Atomic]

10. If I'd been born in Bush's family, I'd be Emperor of the Universe by now.

I can read and everything. I've got all kinds of edges on Dubya.

[mlawson]

13. He would have had to go to Vietnam, because

he couldn't have stayed in college and kept his deferrment. What would have happened to him there?? Who knows?

[spooky3]

17. He would have had a best friend there who loved shrimp and might

not have saved Lt. Dan. :-)

[mlawson]

25. ????? I don't follow.

[knight_of_the_star]

31. LOL

Go watch Forrest Gump and then you will!

[ThomWV]

20. Several Possibilities

Long haul truck driver
Manager of a 7-11
Produce setion manager at a large grocery store
Maybe something to do with a K-Mart

Lets face it, he is a grown man who by now should have had some years of experience in a menial job.

Thom

On Edit: I'm sorry, I thought you said in their circumstance, not in their family. Had he grown up in any of their families he may have ended up being a decent man, but certainly a dullard.

[joanski01]

26. I love the idea of

bush* living in a car, like the Kucinich family did.

With bush's* personality, I think he would probably be a drug dealer and a pimp.

[knight_of_the_star]

32. Yeah, but

He probably would have been some stupid weasel of some kind for a drug dealer or a pimp. He has neither the brains to run a criminal organization or the brawn to act as the muscle, so he probably would have been a stupid patsy or something like that. That or if he grew up in a Catholic family he would probably be in a monastery somewhere after getting too drunk or something like that.

[PissedOffPollyana]

29. Can't say for sure...

... but I expect it would involve a good deal of familiarity with the phrase, "Do you want fries with that?"

[LWolf]

39. Time.

He'd be doing time.

Or he'd be a better human being, having had better role models growing up.