IBM to Move 4,700 Software Jobs to India, China- Dems should get tough

[Eric J in MN]

Companies who move hundreds or thousands of jobs overseas should be barred from federal contracts for the next 10 years.

I wish one of the candidates would take a tough position on this issue, instead of just promising tax breaks if a company doesn't move thousands of jobs overseas.
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RMONK, N.Y. - IBM Corp. plans to move up to several thousand skilled software jobs from the United States to India, China and other countries, which could amount to one of the biggest such actions yet in the technology industry.

IBM documents obtained by The Wall Street Journal said about 4,700 programming jobs could be shifted overseas to save costs, a growing high-tech industry trend known as "offshoring."

More than 900 people are already scheduled to be told of the move in the first half of 2004, while another 3,700 jobs have been identified as having the "potential to move offshore," the Journal said. IBM already has hired 500 engineers in India to take on some of the work that will be moved, the Journal reported.

http://story.news.yahoo.com/news?tmpl=story&u=/ap/20031215/ap_on_hi_te/ibm_offshoring_5

[oostevo]

1. ...

But normally IBM's a nice company -- they treat their employees so well. (No, I'm not being sarcastic). It's sort of sad to see a company forced to take these steps to survive in our brand of capitalism.

[Eric J in MN]

2. All US companies should have a law equally applied to them that

All US companies should have a new law equally applied to them that if they move hundreds of jobs overseas, they will be inelegible for federal contracts for the next 10 years.

Let them decide whether it's worth it in that context.

[cthrumatrix]

17. notice how shrub spends less time on issues like these that affect America

this is what people will vote on...and vote his sorry xxx out of office

[stickdog]

27. I say make the US federal taxes paid by your US resident or citizen

employees deductable against corporate income taxation.

In addition, close all the offshore corporate loopholes, ban corporate tax cheats from all federal contracts, and consider a company's US/foreign employment profile as one of the primary factors when awarding these contracts.

[kcwayne]

7. Our brand of capitalism is self destructing

Capitalism demonstrated it propensity for failure in 1929-1940. The goals of corporations today, with total focus on increasing shareholder value irregardless of the impact on its employees and communities is leading us towards another depression debacle.

Tweaking tax policies or government contract awards will not change the dynamic that exists in the global marketplace. The availability of slave labor and governments that do not have environmental requirements, taxes, or liability litigation are an unbeatable force in a capitalist system. The capital is simply going to move to the lowest cost environment. If a company does 15% of its business with the US government, but saves more than that on labor, insurance, taxes, and legal fees by moving to China, it will forgo the US government business if it came to that. But these companies are too well connected for that to ever happen, so the company wins.

The fallacy of this global market is that without raising the standard of living in the magnet countries, all economies will fail. The US and Europe are the consumers of these plants and services coming from India, China, and South America. As our economy falls over due to 35-50% unemployment, those countries will fail as well, since their economy does not support their citizen's purchase of the goods and services they produce.

Based on the current momentum, I can see no other outcome over the next 10-20 years.

[Q]

24. They're not doing it to 'survive'...but to increase PROFIT MARGIN

...

[frank frankly]

3. you're right

i think the dem candidates are starting to speak out on this...

[Eric J in MN]

5. The only answer I've heard from Democratic candidates is tax breaks

The only answer I've heard from Democratic candidates is tax breaks for companies which don't move thousands of jobs overseas.

I think outsourcing needs to be a factor in federal contracting to actually make management think twice.

[KittyWampus]

11. Clark Spoke About Other Stragegies Besides Tax Code

One of them was enforcing Intellectual Property Rights.
Another was forcing China to alter their monetary policy.

And whether we like to realise it or not... jobs WILL move to places where the labor can be done cheaper.

There should be higher labor standards but the fact is that places like India needs to develope a Middle Class or it will become ever more volatile.

The United States CAN produce more Higher Wage jobs in Science & Tech fields. The problem is we AREN'T. The GOP has no strategy to do this.

Here's a really great website that covers issues like this in a very well balanced manner:

http://www.globalissues.org/TradeRelated/FreeTrade/ProtectOrDeregulate.asp

[Eric J in MN]

18. we've been asking China to crack down on piracy for a long time

China won't change its monetary policy to help the US.


Those proposals won't help.

If corporations were told, move hundreds of jobs overseas and you'll get no federal contracts, period, it would make management think twice.

[KittyWampus]

25. Here's Another Clark Bit-

He mentioned making it necessary for Business to notify Government BEFORE actually moving jobs offshore...

So that Government would have time to move and retrain workers.

Economics is my weak suit- but I do like the thought of giving Government contracts to 100% American Business.

:)

[Demobrat]

4. Clark has spoken out.

He said we should let them go.

[KittyWampus]

9. You Are Misinformed. He acknowledged They Have Already Left

And offered solutions.

[trogdor]

23. More info, please.

What are these solutions he speaks of? Inquiring minds want to know.

[Demobrat]

26. I saw the debate. I know what he said.

And his "solution" was for the US to to "other things". Thanks, Wes.

[cosmicdot]

6. looks as if they're taking their nickname to a higher level ... I.B.M. =

I - Be - Moving ... offshore ...

it all comes down to pseudo/poor leadership by the good ol'boys -- they've been selling us short, and themselves long for years now ... our businesses need new leadership ... people with new ideas for organizing ... add some democracy to choosing leadership ...

maybe Mr. CEO and President Palmisano shouldn't have got that $4.5 million bonus last year ... as if his $1.43 million salary + other compensations and stocks and benefits couldn't have been enough

S.J. Palmisano 2002 $ 1,433,333 $ 4,500,000

or Chairman Gerstner should've taken a cut ... he had an $8 million bonus in 2001 ... what's'a matter with him?

L.V. Gerstner, Jr. 2002 2,000,000 1,500,000 ...
of course, he was given something called restricted stock options in 2002 to the tune of 12,875,000

then, he has some other stocks totalling $147,620,652 Value of Unexercised Exercisable In-the-Money Options


http://www.sec.gov/Archives/edgar/data/51143/000104746903008186/a2104767zdef14a.txt

[WhoCountsTheVotes]

8. But ... Democrats support it

Every major candidate - Dean, Clark, Kerry, Lieberman - supports outsourcing jobs to cheap labor countries and communist regimes. So how exactly are they going to "get tough"?

[welshTerrier2]

10. State, U.S. Lawmakers Pushing to Hinder Offshore Outsourcing

source: http://www.computerworld.com/managementtopics/outsourcing/story/0,10801,88197,00.html?nas=CAR-88197


Federal and state lawmakers are accelerating efforts to stem offshore outsourcing, chiefly by setting restrictions on the use of foreign labor in government contracting.

At the same time, the issue is drawing attention in the presidential race. For instance, Sen. John Kerry (D-Mass.), who's seeking the Democratic nomination, introduced legislation last month requiring call center employees to disclose their location at the commencement of each call. When introducing the legislation, Kerry cited a Gartner Inc. estimate that one in 20 IT jobs at user companies will move offshore by the end of next year.

<snip>

There are at least nine bills pending in the U.S. Congress aimed at barring foreign workers from government contracts, and four states ...

<snip>

[arewethereyet]

12. it would be nice but we ignored the thousands before this

its not like this is a new thing for IBM. They were among the first to get in to this. Ditto Microsoft but they, I believe, were following IBM's lead.

Isn't Gates supposed to be a leftie ? Anyone cranking him about the thousands of jobs he sent to India ?

[Eric J in MN]

14. Bill Gates gave $2,000 to Bush/Cheney 2004 (nt)

nt

[arewethereyet]

16. Yes I know but I see all the time that he's a leftie around here

but the question standa, is anyone cranking him ?

[Stephanie]

13. Well I'm glad I didn't buy that Thinkpad

.

[LuminousX]

15. Funny thing is if any state offered tax incentives to IBM, that governor

would be lambasted as a corporate whore. So kiss those jobs goodbye.

[ozone_man]

22. Precisely.

I wonder if you were thinking about Dean and IBM in Vermont. Losing 6,500 high tech jobs would certainly be a killer and not everyone understands that negociations are needed sometimes to keep plants from moving away.

[reknewcomer]

19. Is this due to NAFTA?

Who allowed and signed NAFTA into law? A giant sucking sound indeed.

[arewethereyet]

21. NAFTA - North American Free Trade Agreement

India is in Asia.

While NAFTA may not have been such a hot thing for jobs, it was our idea. Specifically Clinton.

[Ksec]

20. heard it on CNN..

We need a Patriot Act for corporations who are anti-American. Free market will take the US into third world status if this goes on . No BS here. Third World , here we come.

[Cocoa]

28. I think the "major" candidates see high tech salaries as a problem

the "big six" are all pretty much pro-business, with the possible exception of Gephardt. Although I haven't heard anything from Gep on this either.

If you're pro-business, high tech salaries are a problem.

I saw John Edwards get asked about this at a town hall event, his answer was pretty evasive but it was clear he wastn't going to do too much about it. Same with Clark at one of the debates.