Ramsey Clark offers to Defend Saddam!!!

[veracity]

Ramsey Clark is the former US Attorney General who was at the forefront of every peace march in the US that I attended. He surely knows that there's no way the US will let Saddam tell the truth about our partnership with him......

Here's one source of the story...
http://tvnewslies.org/html/news.html#WAR

[ludwigb]

1. Oh please god no...

It's already bad enough that ANSWER was associated with the anti-war movmement. Ramsey Clark defending Saddam would provide even more ammunition to the myth that war protestors actually have pro-tolitarian loyalites.

[bearfartinthewoods]

15. could this get any worse?

probably....sheeeit

[IndianaGreen]

2. The name of the website is "tv news lies"

what sort of website is that????

[veracity]

18. TvNewsLies...defined

Check it out. TvNewsLies is linked to more than 132 major sites on the Internet....and is recognized as a great source of alternative news and views....the kind the 'tv news' networks don't supply in their roles as informercials for Bush and company.

The site sends out headlines of important news by email...that's how I got this story. It's free. And it fills in the holes....like not knowing about Cheney's secret meetings going to the Supreme Court now. Or finding out what newspapers are finally pushing for someone to reopen the Wilson leak investigation..which has disappeared from the news. And.... oh, yeah - those unimportant lies about the WMD's. Sigh....such a minor event.....

We're being taken....and some Internet sites are fighting back. Tvnewslies, Buzzflash, WhatReallyHappened, OpedNews, CGL, - all of them are trying to counter the propaganda coming out of the Rove manipulated media. Choose any. Read. Learn.

[Loonman]

3. Ramsey Clark - as useful as a screen door on a submarine

Probably a closet Stalinist, too.

[GreenPartyVoter]

6. That's what i think, too.

He'll get the Jack Ruby treatment long before he takes the stand.

[caledesi]

4. Saddam Hussein will never make it to trial.

He will somehow die before trial bec he has the goods on the BFEE. They certainly don't want one of "our former friends" talking, now do they. Mark my words, he will never go to trial.

Hi Rush!

[ctex]

9. There will be an open, public trial of Saddam ,or

more precisely of Saddam's double. The double will make all sorts of useful statements and confessions -- "Syria, Iran and Venezuela offered to hide my nukes and poison gas. You will find tons of WMD's when you invade those countries. Howard Dean has been on my payroll longer than George Galloway -- how dare he praise my capture etc. etc."

The real Saddam will be never see the light of day.

[UTUSN]

38. caledesi, Great LIMBOsevic Graphic

I borrowed it over to another thread, O.K.?

[LeahMira]

5. Maybe that's why...

Ramsey Clark is the former US Attorney General who was at the forefront of every peace march in the US that I attended. He surely knows that there's no way the US will let Saddam tell the truth about our partnership with him......

Maybe he thinks he can get the story out about U.S. partnership with Saddam at one time.

[ithacan]

7. Clark will be SURE the info on GOP support for Saddam in 1980s

gets fully aired.

He will be great because he will make sure all of the info on how the Reagan and Bush I administrations not only actively supported Saddam at the same time Saddam was gassing, torturing, etc., but also protected him from condemnation in the US Congress, the UN, etc., supplied him with chemical weapons and precursors to bio weapons, gave him satellite intelligence to "calibrate" chemical weapons attacks on Iran, etc.

Regardless of how you feel about Saddam, if it is to be a fair trial he needs a defense lawyer, that is one of the most basic parts of our judicial system and the international system as well.

And while Saddam will doubtless go down, the republicans who were his enablers and supporters need to pay the price for their crimes as well.

[theshadow]

8. Then he might as well plead guilty...

and get it over with quickly.

http://www.salon.com/news/feature/1999/06/21/clark/

http://shadow.autono.net/sin001/clark.htm

(I'm not connected with the above link despite the similarity in the "name")

[Freddie Stubbs]

10. Don't forget about his support of Lyndon LaRouche

http://www.schillerinstitute.org/exon/ramseyclark_ltr_95.html

[Blue_Chill]

11. Great another anti-war tie to idiocy

It must be easy being a right winger these days. What's next Saddam t-shirts displaying the murderer as a political prisoner....

[YNGW]

13. That's not all.....

I saw somewhere today that the ACLU is petitioning that Saddam being shown on camera is a violation of the Geneva Convention. Tell me they aren't going to pull the "left-wing ACLU" into the mix of "Saddam appeasers", and then tie our Democratic Party right in with it.

[Zuni]

23. Exactly

Clark is an idiot and a shamless apologist for tyranny.

[Blue_Chill]

28. What's said is that the left refuses to send a clear message

on this type of thing. We don't need these pieces of shit associated with us and until we stop accepting idiots that support this crap the Right Wing will have a easy time demonizing us.

[MSchreader]

12. Some of us leftists have a betting pool going on

For those of you not aware, there is a grouping that exists called the "International Committee to Defend Slobodan Milosevic" -- www.icdsm.org. (What a pig of a name!) Some of us on the left -- those of us classified as "leftist trainspotters" -- have a betting pool going about how long it will take for the "International Committee to Defend Saddam Hussein" to get started.

Ramsey Clark jumping in as he has is one or two steps removed from this. My bet is within the first week of the new year. The winner gets some old left lit (positively mind-numbingly boring to some, but a real treat for us old sectologists ;-) ).

Martin

ON EDIT: Grammar.

[veracity]

16. Interesting comments about "defending" a criminal

I doubt that Ramsey Clark is suggesting that Saddam Hussein is innocent of human rights crimes. I think he, as an attorney, beleives that every criminal deserves a fair trial, and not a mock Kangaroo Court. Some comments here make me forget that I'm in the US. I thought that criminal justice was based on the right to a good defense. I didn't see any disdain against the attorneys that defended Timothy McVeigh. Sad to see this kind of response from some who claim to care about American values.

[jonnyblitz]

21. good post. my thoughts exactly. n/t

[Zuni]

24. have you ever heard this scumbag?

he will put out pro-saddam propaganda

[MSchreader]

27. I am not questioning Hussein's right to be defended

Or to receive a fair trial, be able to confront witnesses, receive all due process, etc. In fact, I look forward to such a thing happening, since it would also lead to an exposure of the links between the Ba'athist regime and the Republican Party inner circle (as well as the highest layers of the American capitalist class).

All I was pointing out was that some of us on the left expected Clark to jump on board, and that some kind of international defense committee for Hussein is likely in the offing (and when that committee is formed is the subject of a betting pool).

Try not to jump the shark next time. Don't let your veracity get the better of you. :hi:

Martin

[ludwigb]

35. I don't have any problem with the principle

I have a problem with the politics. Whether fairly or not (and I think there is some truth to it), Clark has been percieved as an apologist for Saddam. The arguments on the ANSWER website read like an old Soviet textbook--casting Saddam as a nationalist leader opposed to US interests. Obviously there is some truth to all this but it still ignores Saddam's gargantuan repulsiveness and very real fascist tendencies, and shows a type of American Left that is unwilling to drop myopic Cold War era ideology and face reality.

There is nothing the Right would like better than to have thier bogeyman defended by the leader of the most prominent anti-war organizing force. Sullivan will just salivate over this, I guarentee you. From there, they have material to smear all anti-war politicians including Kucinich and Dean.

[bearfartinthewoods]

17. sectologists

i usually thank anyone who introduces me to a new word but this time i can't find it in MWonline. that's not unique but can you define it for me.

ohhh..and thank you for adding to my vocabulary! it's a gift that keeps on giving!!!

[MSchreader]

26. Sectologist

|n.| A person who studies the history, development and viewpoint of sects; specifically, someone who studies leftwing political sects.

A friend of mine coined the term. We use it interchangeably with "leftist trainspotter", since the general definitions are the same.

Martin

[bearfartinthewoods]

30. having married into a family of railroaders, i got the trainspotting but

thank you for the 'very' new word.

[UTUSN]

14. & the Circus Will Continue Until, Oh, OCTOBER 2004

Forget sharks, CONDIT, Kobe, Michael, PETERSEN.

[Gringo]

19. What an embarrassment.

Sometimes being technically "right" gets us nowhere.

Sure, the war was an illegal one on a sovereign country, and thus Saddam is till technically its legitimate ruler, but to jump on his bandwagon to defend him when even the most anti-war countries are cheering his capture, seems pure folly to me.

I understand the desire to get that old dirty laundry out, but we exposed Iran-Contra, got 39 felony convictions, and NOBODY CARED. The traitor, Ollie North sold weapons to Iranian terrorists, and now has a TV show for chrissakes!

[leftyandproud]

20. why is he doing this to us???

what an idiot!
this makes it black and white for the neocons..

against them = for saddam
they will play this crap for all it's worth..
ugh!

[Zuni]

25. Ramsey is one of those that is 'For Saddam'

He has hung out with the guy. He defends scumbags across the world.

[Zuni]

22. Ramsey Clark, 'the war criminals best friend'

is a dedicated stalinist, a shameful liar who hangs out with despots and attempts to make them look good both in court and in public. He is an apologist for tyranny

On C-Span he once described Saddam as 'a very brave man'. He hangs out with neo fascists, stalinists.He has defended Nazi concentration camp guards, Slobodan Milosevic, a Pastor from Rwanda who helped genocidal militias kill most of his congregation and worst of all, Lyndon Larouche


His father was on the Supreme Court and was connected with the Mafia. Lyndon Johnson wanted to replace him with Thurgood Marshall, so he asked Clark to step down. Clark and LBJ made a deal which allowed his goofy son Ramsey to be Atty General. Ramsey was an embarrasment, involved with Cointelpro who was hardcore in his proscution of anti-war activists. He was a vigorous defender of Vietnam back then, until Johnson resigned and neither the Dems nor the GOP wanted anything to do with him. He mysteriously became a hard left winger afterwards. He later became famous for hanging out with the Ayatollahs in Iran during the hostage crisis.

A real scumbag.

[WoodrowFan]

31. I keep waiting for someone here to defend him

I agree with you 100% Zuni, but I'm sure the pro-anyone-who-hates-the-US minority will be charging in soon.

Ramsey Clark: mental and moral midget.

[Q]

34. Strange...

...that you have such nasty words for Clark. You've made it quite clear that you don't like him...why the continued rants?

- I'm suspicious of those who try to discredit the anti-war crowd with such awful language...when in the end they're on OUR side and against our common enemy. It's as if there's a movement within the party to promote the war by 'other means'.

[Cooley Hurd]

29. Clark wants to do this because he knows the right questions to ask

...that will expose the BFEE for its complicity w/ Saddam in the 1980's (and possibly the 1990's, if the Halliburton stories are correct). I think Ramsey Clark is offering to do this, not because he's intersted in getting Saddam off the hook, but because he sees this as a golden opportunity to expose the hypocrisy of the Bush Administration...

I say, go for it!!!

[WoodrowFan]

33. The Hague would be better

It'd be better if Saddam were tried in the Hague then, with some European lawyers rather than an ambulance-chaser like Ramsey. But I bet Shrub and compnay won't let Saddam within a 1,000 miles of the Hague, just so he can't spill the beans.

[Cooley Hurd]

37. That would be better, but it doesn't sound like...

...the Bush Admin has any intention of letting the International War Crimes Tribunal anywhere near him. That's why having Clark cross-examine him in the Iraqi trial is the best bet for learning the truth about his reign and the connections to the BFEE pre-1990 (and, possibly connections post-GW1)...

[mzmolly]

32. Now that, would be interesting as hell!!

;)

[Tinoire]

36. I love this thread. Justice be damned right! & Let the US' lies stand!

:wow:

All in favor of a kangaroo court, raise your hands!

All in favor of WMDs as an established fact, raise your hands!

All in favor of believing Bush's swill,

Ah yes, I forgot... the war on the terror we cause :eyes:

[Ficus]

40. while bush sux

Seddam sucks too, and more. This uses the same argument that Bush uses, and I hate him for it. "You're with us or against us."

You're basically saying, if you're against Hussein, you must be for Bush.

Do I agree with a kangaroo court? No. I hope it is a fair trial. That is out of my hands.

I do not believe in WMDs as an established fact.

I do not believe anything Bush says. But I do believe that SH was a murderer, and terrible dictator. I was against the war, but that is old news now. We are there, and if that is going to happen, I'm glad we got that SOB.

[veracity]

41. Bush swill wins out....

...because ignorance is truly bliss in this country. An Indian paper had an article about how hated Bush is everywhere - that in NO country can he travel without being separated from the populace. They even commented on his PR trip to Iraq - where he was afraid to meet the people he had "liberated." The insurgency is alive and well. And that's the saddest part of it all. More people will die. Nothing will be gained.

[robbedvoter]

39. He is only not defending Milosevic because he was turned down

The friend of all dictators (except W)