Stop dean movement: A dean supporter trick?

[retyred]

It sure looks that way:

Marcus Mrowka....Moderator of Stop dean 20004 http://groups.yahoo.com/group/stopdean2004/join

and member of "dean for America" http://commons.deanforamerica.com/seeUser.php?memberID=1287

This is really pathetic!



george bush…pResident?

retyred in fla
“good night paul, wherever you are”
So I read this book

[Name removed]

1. Deleted message

Message removed by moderator. Click here to review the message board rules.

[_Jumper_]

5. n/t

n/t

[ErasureAcer]

8. I think you're right...

Person above me edited his post:

He said what if we have have to defeat Dean to defeat Bush?

My response:

Bush lite isn't going to cut it.

SAY NO TO HOWARD DEAN!

edit again-I see he had a double post...haha. :)

[_Jumper_]

7. What if we must "stop Dean" in order to stop Bush?

?

[NewYorkerfromMass]

22. there is 'some' logic to that arguement

but I wonder if this is really psy-ops to generate sympathy for Dean?
It is provable but will take time to sort out.
It is definitely NOT the kind of publicity anyone wants. The OBL/Dean contrast and defense issue flags are not what need to be raised by the Dean camp.

[deutsey]

25. Why don't contact Marcus and ask?

http://www.gwforclark.com/contact.html

Consultant: Marcus Mrowka
E-mail: [e-mail]
AIM: damnliberal2032

[shanti]

35. woop, there it is!!!

they are SO transparent.

[Jerseycoa]

29. I'm getting all confused

Is this Marcus person supposed to be involved in the OBL/Dean contrast?

[unfrigginreal]

2. Yeah, it really says a lot about Clarkies

Their spies aren't too careful.

[SahaleArm]

3. Why not? Trippi's been using that as a fundraising ploy.

Poor Howard, Now give me money.

[HuckleB]

12. Has he said anything to raise money...

that you wouldn't expect any candidate to say?

[arendt]

4. Counter conspiracy theory. What if someone else put up this stupidity

With everyone's info all over the net, how could this
supposed perpetrator (Mr. Mrowka - sounds UN-Mercun to me)
not realize how easy it would be to catch this.

What if someone else decided to do this to embarrass
Dean?

What if we all live in the Matrix?

What if this whole campaign is just an Umberto Ecco novel?

This isn't politics, its psychological warfare.

arendt

[blm]

6. heheh. Just like Rove plays. Like when he bugged his own office

and blamed it on the opposition.

[adadem]

68. That's what

I think may be going on with the Osama/Dean ad. Hasn't this been the modus operandi of Trippi in the past?

[deutsey]

That Trippi, he's a freaking genius

He's somehow brainwashed all these Gephardt supporters along with a former Kerry campaign staffer into doing his evil bidding and producing this attack ad.

I've been to Trippi's house, met him, his wife, his children, his dog, and I can attest to his evil ways. Especially how he wandered around the house in a long black cape laughing maniacally. That really tipped me off. But after he brainwashed me, I guess I had no choice but do the bidding of my dark master.

[dajabr]

9. If only that impartial poster from yesterday who was promoting the site...

Would come back and explain their intentions. Maybe I'll send them an AIM message...

[madfloridian]

10. Marcus Mrowka is also a Clark supporter.

http://www.gwforclark.com/downloads.html

Do the research. There are other sites as well.

[dajabr]

18. Is "Director" of a group like that a paid position?(nt)

[madfloridian]

23. I think so, part of the staff? Checking now with someone.

Will let you know.

Someone needs to let the Dean and Clark campaigns know all this.

[dajabr]

27. I hope not! That would put me in quite a "Rage"(nt)

[Tinoire]

74. The Clark Campaign is already aware of certain nasty things going on

CAMPAIGN CONFIDENTIAL
E.J. KESSLER
FORWARD STAFF

December 5, 2003

Jews for Clark: As retired general Wesley Clark campaigned at a large synagogue in south Florida this week, one of the grassroots groups supporting his campaign, "Jews for Clark," was spreading the word about the general with an e-mail message that raised some eyebrows at Clark's campaign headquarters in Little Rock.

<snip>

"There are many in our community who think George Bush's support for Israel and Middle East intervention is good for our interests," the group's e-mail says. "But if you look at the bigger picture, you see a major erosion of American power and influence in the world and an erosion of American ideals at home — and this has major implications for both Israel and the Jewish community.

<snip>

After a traditional Democratic appeal blasting Bush for his stances on abortion and separation of church and state ñ both issues on which American Jews are at the extreme liberal end of political spectrum — the message concludes, "All of this behavior presents a clear and present danger to Jewish interests and it means that as a community we have to come together to defeat Bush next November." The group touts Clark as a nominee who "can win."

Clark's Jewish outreach coordinator, Greg Caplan, told the Forward that he hadn't seen the message until receiving it from the Forward, and he practically disavowed the group. "We have a lot of grassroots groups," Caplan said. "Some we are in closer coordination with than others. ... It's a free country. People are allowed to do whatever they want. There's no relation between us and them."

Dean's adviser for Jewish affairs, Matt Dorf, blasted the Clark campaign. "Wesley Clark needs to decide what kind of campaign he going to run, whether he's going to allow supporters to distort opponents' records, or whether he's going to distance himself from them and shut them down," Dorf said. "They're trying to have it both ways. Howard Dean's support for Israel and for Middle East peace is second to none."

<snip>

http://www.forward.com/issues/2003/03.12.05/news6.campaigncon.html

[SahaleArm]

39. No - Student groups are independent entities...

that are not affiliated with the campaign. They are affiliated and structured under rules of the school.

See the links on http://www.gendeanblog.com/

[sandnsea]

11. This campaign will be analyzed for years

Who knows what's real anymore. Strange goings on, that's for sure. :shrug:

[unfrigginreal]

13. I guess continuation of flame wars from another thread are allowed now

It must be nice to have friends in high places.

[HuckleB]

14. I don't know if I'm on all the sites like that...

but I get E-mail updates from Dean, Clark, Kerry, Gephardt and Kucinich. Of course, I'm not planning to start a Stop X campaign, either.

[Jerseycoa]

31. I even get

Dean brochures in my DU inbox. I don't know why.

[HuckleB]

34. That does sound weird.

I've yet to get any campaign stuff in my DU box.

[Fleshdancer]

15. This is crap

I'm going to try to raise hell about this on the Dean blog and email HQ.

on edit: here's what I just wrote on the Dean blog:


Fellow Dean supporters,

"It has been brought to my attention on the Democratic Underground forum that the person who started a yahoo group called "Stop Dean 2004" is actually listed as a Dean supporter and helped coordinate 2 Dean events.

We're better than this. We're fighting actual Dean resistance on both the right and left side of the aisle and the last thing we need to do is have a supporter perpetuate the blurring of those lines. This is a disgrace and I want to publicly say I am 100% against actions like this.

We don't need slash and burn tactics, can we all agree this is wrong?"

[madfloridian]

17. And maybe someone could let Clark HQ know as well.

.

[deutsey]

16. Marcus gets around...he's also a Clark Supporter

http://www.gwforclark.com/contact.html

He's on the Executive Board of GW Students for Wesley Clark.

[dajabr]

21. But, that guy wasn't here yesterday!

If only we had someone "impartial" enough to swoop in and shed some light on this mess!

[AWD]

57. Strange, isn't it???

How all the Clarkies who jumped on this thread early...just vanished when you posted who REALLY started the Stop Dean movement.

Nice find. I knew it stank of Clark supporters. How very typical.

[KaraokeKarlton]

19. No, he's a Clark activist from Georgetown who posed as a Dean supporter

so he could watch the Dean campaign.

This guy is a current member of a Clark Organization at Georgetown University. He's not a Dean supporter.

[SahaleArm]

41. Posing as a Clark supporter on August 23rd? n/t

[dajabr]

48. Or his co-Clarkie posing as impartial on Dec 15th?

Actually, "Co" is probably unfair in respect to the food chain over at GW for Clark...

RAGE, RAGE, against the dying of the light!

"Play that funky music for me WHITEGUY" uh, I mean BOY.

[damnraddem]

58. Let's put it this way:

if a Republican wanted to get Democrats yelling at each other even more than they already are, this would seem to be a way to do it.

[Hep]

20. It sure looks that way

Who else has gotten a bad reputation for making a conclusion and twisting information to support it? Who could that have been? Around last summer? Can't for the life of me remember.

[mzmolly]

24. About "Marcus"

http://dcbureau.uwire.com/

MARCUS MROWKA
D.C. BUREAU CHIEF
Marcus Mrowka is a junior at George Washington University majoring in journalism and political science. He has been a reporter with U-WIRE since his freshman year, was promoted to Assistant Bureau Chief his sophomore year and is now serving his first year as Bureau Chief.

In the past Marcus has worked for a public relations firm in Washington, D.C., as well as an ad agency. Marcus has worked on political campaigns around the country and spent a year interning for Congresswoman Zoe Lofgren of California. Past roles have included Public Relations Director for The Out Crowd and Communications Director for a coalition of student groups on campus.

Currently he is a public relations consultant for struggling student organizations at GW. Marcus originally hails from Connecticut. Marcus can be reached by email at [e-mail]



http://studentorgs.gwu.edu/outcrowd/index.gw/Site_ID/5045/Page_ID/12533/

http://www.gwforclark.com/contact.html

Seems he switched to Clark?

[edzontar]

45. In the picture, he is standing with the Daily Show's Steve Carrell!!!!!

"Produce Pete" , etc.

Maybe he is auditioning for a new edition of "Even Steven?"

In any case, he seems to be one slippery character--and some sort of disruptor.

[mzmolly]

63. I think it's a card board cut out?

*heh* ;)

[edzontar]

72. I think you are right....even his association with Mr. Carrell is phoney

I am really starting to hate this guy!

[TexasPatriot]

26. there's really only one thing for sure

he's a dumbass

If he's a clark supporter or a dean supporter it's crap - and all he's doing is helping Bush, while he sets 2 democratic houses against each other.

[CWebster]

28. Something to think about,

isn't it...

[KittyWampus]

33. Yes, cwebster, It Certainly IS Something To Think About

Is it not?

[CWebster]

38. Yes it is...

So, what is it exactly you are thinking?

[Cocoa]

32. helping Bush...

and we're helping him help Bush.

Why don't we just steer clear of all this crap entirely? Who really knows what it is, what point is there in escalating it all, can it lead to any good for any candidate?

[AntiCoup2K4]

36. Bingo!

I believe you have the answer... Look at the picture... doesn't this kid look like he would fit right in the middle of the "Brooks Brothers Riot" in the Miami courthouse - engineered by Tom DeLay during the Florida Coup. I suspect a "Young Republican" (which makes about as much sense as a Jewish skinhead or a Black Klansman) employed by the GOP to infiltrate BOTH Dean & Clark campaigns and turn them against each other.

Wesley Clark's reported denials aside, I'm sure the potential strength of a Dean/Clark ticket has occured to Team BCE. And I'm sure just the thought has Rove pissing his Depends. What better way to make sure that never happens than to stir up complete animosity between the Dean & Clark camps??

[slinkerwink]

30. Marcus is a Clark supporter, not a Dean supporter

[burning bush]

37. Actually Slink, it seems that Marcus is a Marcus supporter

this doesn't help the Clark campaign, IMO.

[NashVegas]

80. HaHa! Now THAT'S An Observation!

I like the way you think.

[SahaleArm]

40. How do you know? He's signed up for both n/t

[deutsey]

42. He's on the Executive Board of GW Students for Clark

That's kind of a giveaway.

http://www.gwforclark.com/contact.html

[SahaleArm]

43. Executive board - Of a student group?

Student groups are run through the school, not the campaign; and any student can start one.

[deutsey]

44. Check the url yourself, oh ye of little faith

http://www.gwforclark.com/contact.html

"Executive Board" is their phrase, not mine. I think it's a bit pompous, personally.

[SahaleArm]

51. Read the disclaimer...

This communication is not authorized by any candidate or candidate's committee. The views and policies articulated in these pages are not necessarily those of the George Washington University. Questions or comments about this website? E-mail Lindsay Fincher.

The phrase "Executive Board" is absurd if you know how student groups operate.

[dajabr]

61. I wonder if the DIRECTOR of that group...

Knows Marcus at all?

[deutsey]

64. Regardless, the guy is listed there

Did I say that he's Clark in disguise or that he is Clark's campaign manager?

The disclaimer means nothing in terms of the revelation that this guy has had enough participation as a "consultant" with this group that he is listed under their "Executive Board". He's also credited on the homepage with compiling a document for the group (http://www.gwforclark.com/downloads.html).

And, yes, I see the disclaimer at the bottom of the page and I'll say for the record that I doubt Clark helped Marcus write it. :eyes:

As someone points out above, he's basically a shady character who's done stuff for both campaigns and both campaigns should be leery of him.

[SahaleArm]

69. Neither campaign can stop him from participating in a student group...

Or from creating random yahoo groups.

[deutsey]

79. Nor should they

Being leery of someone does not mean stripping them of their rights.

To be fair to Marcus, it was the original poster of this thread who accused him of being a Dean supporter who created a stop dean group in order to create sympathy for Dean.

My original posts were pointing out that he's involved in a student group that supports Clark.

[Rose Siding]

47. Yeah but Deanlink list 2 events he helped "coordinate"

He's up to no good one way or the other and both campaigns should be made aware of it.

[deutsey]

49. I'm beginning to suspect more and more that you're correct

.

[NewYorkerfromMass]

56. Perhaps he was an early Deaner who switched?

the very low Dean ID # would seem to indicate that.

[Rose Siding]

65. We've only had Deanlink for a couple of months

as I recall. I may be wrong.

[Patriot_Spear]

46. Well lookey here- This Marcus guy is a Clark operative...

Nice.

http://www.gwforclark.com/downloads.html

[SahaleArm]

55. Sh*ts and Giggles...

http://commons.deanforamerica.com/seeUser.php?memberID=1287

[stickdog]

50. Yeah. And you and all the other Dean bashers on DU are really

Dean supporters as well.

That Dean guy is very sly.

[KaraokeKarlton]

52. I bet the person who posted that first link on this site yesterday

is kicking themselves in the ass right about now. Whoever this guy Marcus supports is irrelevent. What matters is that DU members allowed this one stupid putz to wreak complete and total havok on this site. People who have posted side by side for a very long time hurt one another, demoralized one another and about everyone was reduced to nothing better than the bullshit we're supposed to be fighting against.

We need to be smarter about people who come here looking to divide and conquer. If someone is working against one of us, they're working against all of us. When we promote what's good about our guy, we go a long way in lifting all of us up above the fray.

So, why do we always let these fucktards win? :shrug:

[Rose Siding]

59. You're right, kk

That pretty much defines not only "disruptor" but "Successful Disruptor"

[edzontar]

70. The fact that this was a disruptor was clear from the start

To some of us, at least.

I assumed it was a freeper and acted as we are instructed to do.

We all know what followed.

The present evidence seems to point to the following possible scenarios:

1. A misguided Clark supporter who either once supported Dean amd switched to Clark, or one who infiltrated the Dean camp (most likely)

2. A fiendishly devious Dean operative who infiltrated the Clark campaign at GW in an effort to make Clark look bad and scare up sympathy for Dean (this seems a stretch)

3. A freeper or Repuke mole who has infiltrated both camps (possible, i suppose)

4. A completely apolitical disruptor who like the Daily Show with Steve Carrell (also possible, if less likely).

Maybe we should all e-mail him and ask for ourselves.

[unfrigginreal]

76. I think you've misread this one Karaoke

There are plenty on this board that are tickled to death with these new inflammatory posts. The intent is to dampen the enthusiasm of the Dean supporters. It is working and they know it. Unfortunately for us, we're not fairly represented at all levels in DU so it will be quite a struggle from here on in.

[drfemoe]

53. is this a continuation of a flame war?

http://www.democraticunderground.com/discuss/duboard.php?az=show_topic&forum=104&topic_id=920736

The original thread was not to your satisfaction?

[Tom Rinaldo]

54. I don't believe that

I think it is what it says it is. And I don't think any of this is a big deal. For the record I am opposed to a Stop Dean Movement. I finally broke down and joined the site for 3 mins so I could read it and then I resigned my "membership.

I honestly don't think it reflects well on Dean supporters to express such outrage over this "what you see is what you get" Yahoo Club. The big money backed anti Dean TV ads that no one is taking real credit for is a very different story, and that is disturbing.

But the part that is disturbing about the TV ads is the secretive use of major money, not the message per se. The reason why I don't think outrage over a Yahoo Club started by a few anti Dean activists reflects well on Dean supporters is simple. This is a free country and if someone wants to take the position that it will harm the Democratic Party if Dean is nominated, let them try to defend that position and associate with anyone they like who feels the same way.

It is more than naive to express anger at the mere existenece of Stop the Frontrunner efforts. They almost always happen in Primary campaigns when one candidate starts breaking out of the pack. It is part of the political game, and it is best fought on the merits of the arguments being thrown about. The standard reply by the frontrunner is "this just shows how desperate the other guys are. The voters are rejecting their messages and embracing mine. The attention I am being given validates the strength of my campaign." That is how this dance is usually done. Dean supporters should feel satisfaction that they are in the enviable position that they are in.

When this game is played by the rules however, those people pushing a Stop the Frontrunner Campaign should be outfront about who they are and why they feel that way. From what I can tell of the Yahoo Club it is a call for those who think that Dean is the worst choice possible to unite to slow the nominating process down to allow other candidates sufficient time to turn the elections around. That is an arguable position to take. It is not mine. I find it amusing that they took inspiration from th eDean campaigns's "We have the Power" track record, they specifically note it as a model. It's the computer age folks, some people who don't want Dean to win the nomination are trying to use the web to slow him down. There is no basis to believe that they are anything other than self empowered.

Having said that I am willing to believe that some National Democrats, who for whatever reason think giving Dean the nomination is a mistake, will be burning up the phone lines trying to convince others to hold up on endorcing Dean this early, and the like. No reason to think this election is fundamentally different than all the others that have preceeded it.

[SeattleRob]

60. divide and conquer....

Remeber it is the classic technique of the republicans to divide and conquer. With all the flame wars going on and no matter who we support, we need to keep this in mind!


:pals:

[opstachuck]

62. join the 'stop marcus' movement

maybe our hatred of Marcus will unite us again?

of course some of us will say they were against Marcus from the very beginning but they had a nuanced approach to Marcus that was misunderstood. and then there'll be those of us who'll say we were against Marcus the entire time when in fact just a few days ago they were essentially supporting him. and then there's the Biden-Lugar version of Marcus which was essentially the same Marcus that started all this.

actually nevermind, we'll just end up beating ourselves up instead of Marcus.

fuckin Marcus

[Rose Siding]

66. Where do I send my donation!!??

Sign me up :bounce:

[KittyWampus]

67. This Is Making Me Laugh So Hard Right Now!!!

You should start a thread!

:D

[KaraokeKarlton]

71. Call it "The Marcus Affair"

anyone else want to chew this Marcus guy a new bunghole besides me?

[edzontar]

73. Me too!!! Me too!!!

Start a new thread!!

A website!!!!

A movement!!!

[KaraokeKarlton]

81. lol

I think we can at least just about all agree that Marcus is a putz.

[dajabr]

75. Who cares about Marcus! My beef is with this guy...

Chad Reed
E-mail:[e-mail]
AOL Instant Messenger: whiteguy00000

Just looking at his name puts me in a "Rage!"

Oddly though, it's a rage only against mechanical devices - a machine if you will.

[opstachuck]

77. thanks, i just did, but it's been exiled to the Lounge n/t

[webkev]

78. this is getting wierd(nt)

[madfloridian]

82. Same guy on a blog? Interesting.

http://blog.forclark.com/story/2003/12/14/235050/02

This guy is one slick operator:
SNIP...Wes is against attacking Dean, but that doesn't mean that we can't do it ourselves. My friend and I are working to create a grassroots coalition to stop Howard Dean from getting the Democratic nomination. We want Clark people, Gephardt people, Kerry people, anyone you can think of to join this fight. This fight will have nothing to do with Wes, it is just about stopping Howard Dean. If they have the power, then so do we and I think its time we used it.."

We all need to be on guard and contact campaigns when necessary. None of us is exempt from this.

Where have I heard of this guy Vince Collins before?
He adds to the original post about his own thoughts.

[KaraokeKarlton]

84. Busted! hahahaha

what a dumbass this guy is.

[John_H]

83. God, I hope not. Dean certainly must be stopped, but

I hope he joined deanforwhatever to get on the mailing list.