Clark's True Colors

[mzmolly]

This story was posted here before. And, I personally took issue with part of it because I didn't care for the authors methods. However given the actions of some of Clarks supporters as of late, I am beginning to understand Mr. Taibbi's frustration.

"The thing is," he said, "being electable means having certain qualities. And unfortunately, many of those qualities are superficial qualities." He paused. "General Clark has depth, but he also has those surface qualities. He appeals to people who don't have time to think about the depth part.

Jesus, I thought. They're just coming right out and saying it."

I by no means have any intention of lumping all Clark supporters into the same category. I just think there have been a few posters here who exude a 'Republican ignorance.' Not only that, but they 'encourage' others to partake?

Worth mentioning: Some Clark supporters have been disgust with these people as well.

As I've said before I will vote for Clark if he's the nominee. I am ABB all the way.

http://www.thenation.com/doc.mhtml?i=20031215&s=taibbi

[TrueAmerican]

1. Same old dirty tricks from the Dean campaign

The author of this article was discredited along with the article itself.

[mzmolly]

4. Dirty Tricks?

Outed? Please share...

[Kool Kitty]

11. How is this a dirty trick from the Dean campaign?

I didn't care for this article at all, but I don't see how it links to the Dean campaign by any stretch. Please elaborate, I'd like to know.

[KittyWampus]

23. Shall We Post The Tiabbi Hit Piece On Dean?

Nah... revenge threads suck.

[KittyWampus]

2. Since Clark Has Outed The PNAC Crowd & Mentioned Cutting Pentagon Budget

I'm inclined to support him over some other candidates...

[CivilRightsNow]

54. How funny...

The man is part of the PNAC crowd.

You guys are a regular laugh riot lately.

[Name removed]

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[Name removed]

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[Name removed]

22. Deleted message

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[pinkpops]

5. I like Dean, I like Clark

for different reasons. One thing I like about both of them is they don't seem to be slinging mud at each other. You might be able to cite some cases I don't know about.

[mzmolly]

7. Clark just said "Dean is not electable"

in an article today. He's slinging as of late.

[Kool Kitty]

14. What article?

[SahaleArm]

17. He did not say that n/t

[mzmolly]

25. It's been all over DU. He said Dean cant win, so he wont be his VP

or some such thing. Didn't spend too much time examining it, but it's the same thing...

Cant win = unelectable.

[pinkpops]

19. I just saw that one

I don't know if I would call that mud slinging, though it is negative. I am thinkning more about the "spider hole of delusion" type of mud slinging.

[KittyWampus]

26. You Are Misinformed. Clark Did NOT Say "Dean Is Not Electable"

please retract your statement.

[mzmolly]

37. He said Dean can't win...

same thing... pardon the paraphrase :eyes:

[LauraT28]

42. Not the same at all...

You're perceiving it that way.

[retyred]

39. if your refering to the article that said

when asked if he'd consider being deans VP, Clark said no because a dean/Clark ticket couldn't win, I read it and that is what was said, not that dean wasn't electable, if ther's another article I'd appreciate a link where Clark says "Dean is not electable"



retyred in fla
“good night paul, wherever you are”
So I read this book

[mzmolly]

41. I'd like the link if you have it. I don't

however, it would appear that the Dean part is the 'non winning' portion?

[mmonk]

6. I think you

ought to read Winning Modern Wars and then listen to the debates and the sound bites or one liners from the candidates and then determine where the real substance is.

[mzmolly]

8. Yea but I'm not interested in winning wars right now

we have a massive domestic mess to consider as well. Clark is a very intelligent man IMHO. But, I dont think he is a 'shoe in' for President, nor do I feel he's qualified.

Edited to add: He is more qualified the Whistle A$$ of course. And, the article takes issue with 'some' supporters as well.

[SahaleArm]

20. As Kucinich pointed out to Dean - You can't fix the domestic mess...

without fixing the Iraq mess.

[mmonk]

30. So

What's Clark's domestic agenda and what's wrong with it? What did Clark say about the bush admin's plan on fighting terrorism and what's wrong with it? What's Clark's plans for healthcare, the environment, IDEA, manufacturing rural America, and what's wrong with them? What makes Clark less qualified than the governor of Vermont which has less in population than my metro area and is less population wise than Clark has been responsible for in his duties? What foreign policy experience does Dean have that makes him qualified and not Clark? (I don't like to leave open ended pronouncements go)

[KittyWampus]

31. Well, Without Cutting Pentagon Funding The Domestic Mess Will Continue

and Dean is too weak to cut Pentagon spending....

NO, Dean would rather take back Middle Class Tax cuts than make the NeoCons suffer.

[Tom Rinaldo]

9. Here, let's save everyone some trouble

Here is the link to the most recent attempt to recycle this garbage on DU, along with at least 179 replies to the original header covering every conceivable comment, so no one will have to bother reinventing the wheel:
http://www.democraticunderground.com/discuss/duboard.php?az=show_mesg&forum=104&topic_id=811974&mesg_id=811974

[mzmolly]

16. I'll look it over again, but the issue that I was bringing to surface

was the one about certain supporters? I dont know if that's been covered.

[Tom Rinaldo]

24. 95% of that artical is a Clark smear

so you repost it for the 10th time here on DU because you want to talk about the actions of some Clark supporters? Don't you think actually talking about the actions of those Clark supporters would be the more direct and honorable way to addresse your concerns?

[mzmolly]

38. It would, but calling out specific supporters is against the user rules

and I thought Clark supporters should develope their own method for 'dealing internally'.

The article insinuates that Clark supporters are uneducated on the issues, and don't much care about them. :shrug:

[Myra]

Thanks Tom. I'll save that link for the next DUer who posts smears.

Under guise of disciplining us.

[neverforget]

10. boo hoo. cry me a river. If you can't take the heat, get out of the

kitchen. :nopity:

[mzmolly]

12. Heat? Cant take?

who's crying? Not me, my candidate is the front runner...

[neverforget]

32. Graciousness and humility are not qualities found in this post.

[mzmolly]

44. So sorry you haven't found what your looking for here.

:hi:

[neverforget]

48. Seems to be a lack of it all over the place. How sad.

[Myra]

15. So you're going to improve the discussion by recycling discredited smears?

And sneakily calling "Some Clark supporters" Pugs?

Are you showing your true colors now?

[mzmolly]

18. Actually I think the smears are 'credited'

that's my point. My true colors?

[Kool Kitty]

28. Since I'm not a basher or a slimer,

I'll just assume you weren't including me in that bunch of Clark supporters.

[mzmolly]

45. Consider yourself NOT included.

:)

[Kool Kitty]

47. Thanks.

;-)

[liberalmuse]

21. That's it.

I hate this fucking place anymore.

[Mz Pip]

27. Seems I read

that Taibbi wrote a nsty little hit piece on Dean. I'm sure you agree with that one too.

MzPip
:dem:

[mzmolly]

46. I posted about Mr. Taibbi's methods in the original thread if you care to

look, however, I upon recalling the article, and recent events, I began to question.

[SahaleArm]

29. This thread is about to get out of hand n/t

[BootinUp]

33. Is this an attack on Clark or

his supporters...?

no other response is necessary e/o/m

[mzmolly]

50. It's not an attack...It's an observation about SOME of Clarks

supporters. Namely, the ones who tell me daily that my candidate can't win. The ones who form groups to 'take out' my candidate etc... You know thoooose Clark supporters?

[incapsulated]

34. "Republican ignorance"?

Isn't that pretty close to accusing us of being closet rethugs?

Also, there is no need to drag up that Taibbi piece unless you want to give it credibilty. You could easily say, in your own words, what you think about Clark supporters.

[mzmolly]

35. No, I have one word for my inspiration MARCUS!

Get it? This is not about most Clark supporters here. It's about a handful ...

[in_cog_ni_to]

36. I like this article

MUCH better and every time the Taibbi article is posted, I'll post this one. OK? This is a great article about what Dr. Dean is REALLY like and I'm beginning to understand the authors frustration.

<snip>
Dean slashed millions of dollars from all sorts of social programs, from prescription drug benefits for Medicare recipients and heating assistance for poorer Vermonters to housing assistance funds. In defending his cuts to social programs, Dean said, "I don’t think I have to shy away from that just because I’m supposed to be a liberal Democrat."8

Throughout the 1990s, Dean’s cuts in state aid to education ($6 million), retirement funds for teachers and state employees ($7 million), health care ($4 million), welfare programs earmarked for the aged, blind and disabled ($2 million), Medicaid benefits ($1.2 million) and more, amounted to roughly $30 million. Dean claimed that the cuts were necessary because the state had no money and was burdened by a $60 million deficit.9

But during the same period, Dean found $7 million for a low-interest loan program for businesses, $30 million for a new prison in Springfield, VT, and he cut the income tax by 8 percent (equivalent to $30 million)–a move many in the legislature balked at because they didn’t feel comfortable "cutting taxes in a way that benefits the wealthiest taxpayers."10 By 2002, state investments in prisons increased by nearly 150 percent while investments in state colleges increased by only 7 percent.11

Indeed, Dean’s mix of "fiscal conservatism and social liberalism" seems to be not much different than Bush’s so-called compassionate conservatism, and certainly paralleled Clinton’s signature combination of liberal "I-feel-your-pain" rhetoric with neoliberal policies.

"Move the retirement age to 70"<snip> There's a WHOLE LOT more to this article.

http://www.isreview.org/issues/32/dean.shtml

[mzmolly]

51. Please post for discussion...

however this thread isn't about Dean.

[frustrated_lefty]

40. As A Deanie, I have to wonder

what exactly was the point to posting this? Was there any productive aim? Or is this simply tossing more venom and spite into the mix?

I'm kind frustrated with some of the threads that have been posted in the last several days, but this is not the way to make things better.

[mzmolly]

52. The point was that I'm frustrated at the treatment I and my candidate have

recieved from some of Clarks supporters. Sorry if that wasn't clear... :)

[Doctor_J]

43. Dean is the choice of the entrenched Dems

and their sparse media machine (like the Nation, Malloy, etc). SOme of us would like the party to evolve a little bit. Rusty and the rest of the media whores have painted us as the party of the NE liberal cocktail-party set, out of touch with middle-America's issues. Nominating as our candidate a silver-spoon governor of a small, NE, liberal state will allow the GOP media machine to just repeat that mantra over and over.

We have been presented with an opportunity to change the face of our party. We may not have another chance for a very long time. One of the people who wants to carry the flag for our party is a liberal, Rhodes scholar, middle-America war hero who writes books on how to win wars. If he gets nominated and runs with another real patriot like Cleland or Graham or Kerrey, Smirk will receive the beating of a lifetime, and we will have reclaimed the voting blocs that are rightfully ours, but have been stolen away by propaganda - veterans, West Point and Annapolis grads, flag-wearers, and working people.

[MarkTwain]

49. The post which began this thread....

.... makes absolutely no sense, whatsoever.

Just a disjointed, random set of not very coherently formed sentiments, at best.

"This story was posted here before. And, I personally took issue with part of it because I didn't care for the authors methods. However given the actions of some of Clarks supporters as of late, I am beginning to understand Mr. Taibbi's frustration."

Oh. Even though Mr. Taibii has been thoroughly discredited multiple times on this board, we can all sit back and now share in his discredited "frustration." Sure. Show me the frustration train and I'll climb right on board. Not.

"The thing is," he said, "being electable means having certain qualities. And unfortunately, many of those qualities are superficial qualities." He paused. "General Clark has depth, but he also has those surface qualities. He appeals to people who don't have time to think about the depth part."

Absolute crap. If anything, the support that the good Doctor has is, again at best, a mile deep but an inch wide.

The Doctor does not, repeat not, appeal to the majority of Democrats but far more importantly, the good Doctor will not, repeat not, capture the votes of the important middle or of the ten or so percent reasonably perceptive Republicans who will find no further favor in DimSon.

The good Doctor is a cardiac arrest just waiting to happen for the Democratic party in national electoral terms.

"Jesus, I thought. They're just coming right out and saying it."

Saying what. Anything of substance. I think not.

"I by no means have any intention of lumping all Clark supporters into the same category. I just think there have been a few posters here who exude a 'Republican ignorance.' Not only that, but they 'encourage' others to partake?"

Frankly, the post being excerpted herein is what exudes - no, make that screams - Republican ignorance. A bunch of disjointed ad hominem attacks with virtually no substance or support - except that of a discredited hack who has been thoroughly disputed.

Very simple: Dean as the Democratic candidate = DimSon and his Cabal enjoying the appointment of upwards of three members of SCOTUS and effectively completing the right wing junta over this country, its children, grandchildren, and greatgrandchildres for the next forty plus years.

Everyone knows this. Even the most fervent of the good Doctor's supporters; they just won't admit it publically for fear of having to acknowledge that their dream candidate is actually an electoral nightmare.

[Moderator]

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