A Dean nomination and Democratic Party unity.

[Cascadian]

This is the most mud slinging I have seen against fellow Democratic Party presidential candidates. If Dean gets the nomination, do you find some Democrats particularly those mud-slinging candidates won't support Dean? How about those anti-Dean people out there. This is such a self-destructive way of destroying party unity and it's many months from the Boston convention. Geez! Have the bridges already been burnt or what?

More importantly, who of you Democrats will not vote for Dean if he gets nomination?

John

[Jack_Dawson]

1. It's not mudslinging, it's knowing he'll get his ass kicked

And we want to BEAT G-Dub, not lose again. That's all. It's nothing personal.

[KaraokeKarlton]

2. We? Do you have a mouse in your pocket?

I hate to clue you in on the facts, but you don't speak for all voters, and certainly not me.

[DemOutWest]

4. Not sure

To be honest I don't think Dean will be nominated. I refuse to let all of the polls and the media pick the nominee before anyone has voted.

However, if nominated, yes I would vote for Dean and then take a hot shower, cry and get drunk. Then I will sober up and figure out the best candidate in 2008. I figure the media will have that decided by 2006. They are already talking about the candidates.

Man, I feel dirty now. Better hit the shower.

DemOutWest

[Jack_Dawson]

23. LOL!!! That's exactly what I would do too

Dean. Dear God we would lose 44-6.

[RUMMYisFROSTED]

7. A mouse? I want winning Lotto numbers!

PM with them Jack.

If they don't win, I'll know you're powers of prognostication are questionable.

[Aloha_Texan]

3. I will be voting for Dean

Keep in mind though, if leiberman got the nomination I'd vote for him to. Personally i beleive the Dean/Clark ticket is our best shot at not getting our ass kicked.

[Melodybe]

22. I agree, a Dean/Clark ticket is the strongest that the Dem's could offer

[NicRic]

37. I almost agree, a Clark//Dean ticket is better...

.

[newyawker99]

32. Hi Aloha_Texan!!

Welcome to DU!! :toast:

[LuminousX]

42. Dean/Graham is my choice

I personally want to keep Clark as far away from the Office of the President as possible.

[Scott Lee]

6. So you propose a less popular Dem candidate to go against Bush

Wow, that's some plan. Must be right out of Sun Tzu, huh?

[DemOutWest]

14. More popular?

How? Dean is as polarizing as Bush. Many people don't like him including most of the people in the other campaigns.

He would be the least popular nominee that we could have. Maybe not here in the Dean Undergound or because he has many supporters on the internet. I'm talking about the regular voter on the street. Middle Class Americans. Those that have loved ones overseas. Those who have served in other conflicts. They might vote for Dean but only because he is better than what we have now.

I said I would vote for him if the nominee.

[Scott Lee]

25. Yes, more popular. Check Deans polling.

[DemOutWest]

28. Polls mean

zilch. They have never been a good barometer of the voting. The undecided will sway the vote. Add up all of the Anti-Dean votes and see how popular he is.

Peace Out, DemOutWest

[NicRic]

34. I sadly agree ...

that Dean would most likely lose to bush and hand this pResident a landslide ! bush acted like he had a mandate when the election was stolen for him ,imagine if he actually wins ,he will probably start wearing a crown ,king gorge :-( I will vote for who ever the Dem nominee is ,I believe we would be in a much better place had Gore ran ,or with Clark as the nominee, just my opinion, however I feel strongly ,that the Dems are setting themselves up for a big disappointment in 04 !

[blm]

5. Kerry = Bush. I know because Dean marched alongside that sign.

I have no ill feelings to the Deanies who spread that propaganda that Kerry was a "corrupt Washington insider" or that Dean calls Kerry, "Bushlite" or that Dean attacked Kerry even while he was in recovery from cancer surgery.

No...I think Dean set a WONDERFUL tone for the entire campaign, and he did it so early on.

Kumbaya.

[Scott Lee]

8. Democratic Nominee Howard Dean. Get used to it.

And we may save you a nice seat at the inauguration.

[blm]

10. Nope. I'll be even too disgusted to type "I told you so" to all the

fillintheblanks who thought voting for Dean was a great move for the Democratic party as Bush sweeps 42 states.

[mitchum]

17. I'll do it for you because I relish the opportunity to shove generous

helpings of "I told you you so" down their smug, bratty yaps. Fuck them and the Trojan horse they rode in.

[Jack_Dawson]

24. Ain't gon' happen

[Scott Lee]

26. Aw gee, mitchum....do we need a nap?

[retyred]

30. Didn't you get the memo?

A thread tonight says that if dean loses, it will be your fault because you wouldn't be nice to him here on DU.

He is electable, but You and others here are just too negative to allow him to win, it's all your fault!


retyred in fla
“good night paul, wherever you are”
So I read this book

[molly]

43. I agree!

[MercutioATC]

13. As much as I disagree with BLM, that's the WRONG strategy to take..

BLM and I disagree on damn near everything. That's pretty well documented. However, these "Dean's the nominee, get used to it" posts are pure tripe. I'm a Dean supporter, but it's way too early to call. I'm happy that Dean's doing well, but I'm also listening to the other candidates.

I suggest you do the same. Posts like yours only hurt our campaign.

[LuminousX]

41. I fully agree, until the convention, it is folly to say Dean is it

[DemOutWest]

15. Will you

be in a marching band celebrating President Kerry's inauguration?

[mitchum]

18. Naw, he only knows one note

[quaker bill]

19. Nice seat at the inauguration?

Not good enough, I am working for a ticket to the ball. I will rent a tux.

[Bake]

31. Sorry, but that sounds a little too close to "Get over it" to suit me!

Not a single vote has been cast. The Big Dog won the nomination after getting his ass kicked in the early primaries.

I'm not ready to concede the nomination to Dean just yet.

Bake

[NicRic]

38. bush wins the election ,I can never get use to that !

.

[quaker bill]

16. Check Kerry out this week

Two weeks ago it was "Dean supported Biden-Lugar just like our man Kerry". This week, to claim a bit of post Saddam victory, Kerry says Dean doesn't show the mature judgement on Saddam required to be president.

Two weeks ago it was wrong to draw a distinction. Now Kerry's support for IWR shows the mature judgement to be President. When stuff blows up next week will it be the Biden-Lugar line again?

Which deal is the 'real deal'?

To me the real deal is no deal.

[WiseMen]

9. POST Like Yours OFFICIAL PART OF SHADY CAMPAIGN strategy

You may not be knowledgebly involved. But I have to state what
I know as a fact -- the Dean campaign is actively engaged in a plan to hammer the opposition by calling them NEGATIVE even while continuing a massive covert effort go "UNDERMINE THE IMAGE" (e.g. slime) other candidates as needed.

BASICALLY IT IS LIKE ASKING SOMEONE TO BE VOLUNTARILY HANDCUFFED before they are knifed in the back.

[Myra]

20. Yeah. It really doesn't help the stated cause of "unity" when someone

In the Dean camp posts daily demanding to know if we'll vote for
Dean??? Seems disingenuous.

Does this mean I have to start a daily post asking if
Dean supporters will vote for Clark if (as I hope and anticipate)
he's nominated???

[pasadenaboy]

11. I don't know if I'll vote for the nominee if its not Dean, Kucinich, Clark

I hate the status quo of the democratic party. I hate the people we have in the media who are so called strategists and advisors. I hate the sell outs we are supposedly our leaders. If we don't get some fresh air into the party, I don't know if I can support it. It might just be better if it dies so something else can rise up to take its place.

If my only option is between two pro-war pro-corporate fiscally-irresponsible candidates, I might as well vote for Bush. What is the real difference?

[tsipple]

12. If You Want to Hear the Secret...

...This is what you might call the -- no offense -- "drama queen" syndrome at work. :7 Nobody has got a freakin' clue how to leapfrog ahead of Dean right now, and so they're (almost) all being totally melodramatic. It's the only way they can get any attention.

And it's not working.

No, it's actually not unusual. Even Gore-Bradley was a hard-fought race, and 1992 was quite brutal. (Remember Gennifer Flowers?)

Relax. We'll get through it. The candidates will make their arguments -- and an awful lot of them are awfully lame right now :7 -- and then the voters will decide. It should be pretty clear sometime around February who's going to go on to the real fight: the general election against Bush.

[arewethereyet]

21. thats what you get being angry for a living

it has this effect on people.

we'll get past it but it will leave scars across all the tickets.

[creativelcro]

27. Look, there are only a handful of people here on DU who

make all the fuss... It doesn't matter if they don't vote...

[stickdog]

29. The title of your post says it all. (nt)

[WilliamPitt]

33. FOR THE LAST FUCKING TIME

(or probably not)

These are the primaries. If this is the worst attacks you've seen against a candidate by another candidate in a primary season, I respectfully suggest you have not been paying enough attention. This has been in fact, a relatively tame season until very recently.

I reserve the right to attack Howard Dean from every available angle from now until the moment he secures the nomination. I reserve the right to believe he is not the best candidate for the 2004 election. I reserve the right to spurn blandishments for party unity that are thinly disguised Support-Dean-Or-Else warnings for the campaign ploy they are. I reserve the right to believe that if Dean cannot overcome what is happening now, he does not deserve the nomination, and will furthermore be slaughtered in the general election if what he faces now is too much.

[LuminousX]

36. This is what happens when so many new people are brought into politics

[edzontar]

40. Will--a lot more Clark supporters have said they would oppose Dean

In the general than Dean supporters have said they would not support Clark.

It seems to me at least that an element in the Clark camp is dedicated ONLY to their candidate and not to the defeat of Bush as an overriding principle.

Your thoughts?

[Renew Deal]

44. That's bullshit

you are making stuff up. There was a therad last week about would Clark supporters support the nominee. I think everyone there said yes. Unlike some of the leftists supporting Dean who would refuse to vote for Clark and would consider Dean ripped off if he doesn't win the nomination. Back up your crap. I bet you can't.

[bicentennial_baby]

47. BS

Where are they? You take the word of a handful of DUers who are probably banned disruptors at this point to be the gospel of Clark supporters. It's crap. I don't like Dean, but I'll vote for him if he gets the nod. That is the last time I'm saying it...I'm fucking sick to death of Deanies demanding loyalty oaths from everyone...

[JanMichael]

45. DAMN! You had me with "FOR THE LAST FUCKING TIME"!

Then you lost me with "(or probably not)"...Such a tease Will, such a tease.

[Stuckinthebush]

49. I think people understand this

I think that most everyone here clearly understands that primary fights can be very, very nasty. Dean will do just fine surviving the onslaught. However, the reaction to the mudslinging that you see here is due to the very real stakes in the 2004 election. If Bush wins in 2004, then we can kiss goodbye all of the social advances made by the Democrats in the last 50 years. We will not take back the Senate and you can forget the House. Also, there is the real possibility that the Republicans get a filibuster proof Senate within the next four years. This would spell disaster for all of us with Progressive ideals.

So, the crap thrown at Dean from Lieberman and Gephardt (assuming he was behind the SC ad) can hurt us tremendously. These two probably have little chance to get the nomination, so they are playing as spoilers. In the end, Dean or Clark will probably get the nod based on polls now. The primary season has not started, but it looks very good for these two. Kerry's star is diminishing, so I don't think he has a chance now. While I understand that we shouldn't declare a winner and loser this early, we are facing a very rich Bush campaign with no challengers. If we bloody ourselves up too much now, we can hang up winning against Bush regardless of who the nominee is.

I'm afraid politics as usual will kill us this time.

[edzontar]

35. I will gladly support Dean or Clark

And am appalled at the Clark supporters on this thread who say they would NOT support Dean against Bush.

This plays into my emerging opinion that some of the more avid so-called Clark supporters on this board are not Democrats at all, but one-candidate personality cultists and/or GOP moles dedicated to the disruption of pur party.

[LuminousX]

39. Seeing my utter contempt for the word cultist, I have to strongly disagree

Everyone is allowed to support their choice in as partisan an effort as possible. Hey, this is the primary after all, and if I can cripple other candidates rhetoricly, then I am obligated to do so, even if it means I weaken them to the point they can't win the General Election.

It isn't as if this election should be any different than any other election.

Game on.

[edzontar]

46. What I mean is that some Clark supporters

A vocal minority, perhaps, on tihs board, seem to be more committed to Clark than they are to the cause of defeating Bush.

Note once agin that I am perfectly happy with Clark as a candidate and would work tirelessly for him the general.

[John_H]

48. Is this the emergence of a new Dean strategy

to say that all election tactics--which yes, Virginia, has always included attacks--directed at Dean are "disloyal" to the Democratic party? I hope not, because it would reflect a profound arrogance on the part of Howard Dean and his campaign.

I don't mean to repeat myself, but its obvious that a good number of smart people have given this election a long, hard, loyal look an have determined that the primary is the whole ball of wax.

Sure, a tough primary might be expensive in many ways, but it sure as hell beats the alternative--sure defeat in November.