Madeline Albright says bush knows where osama is

[bearfartinthewoods]

and is just waiting for the opportune moment to pick him up.

reported on fox

[La_Serpiente]

1. oh oh

Is her statement on par with that of Rep. McDermott (D-Washington)?

[bearfartinthewoods]

2. i think she has more 'creds' than McDermott

if it's true, she may be trying to force his hand and ruin any october surprise. (fingers crossed)

[in_cog_ni_to]

3. What did I miss?

What did McDermott say? That guy doesn't mince words...whatever it was, I'm sure it was good! :)

[La_Serpiente]

4. Here you go

http://story.news.yahoo.com/news?tmpl=story&u=/ap/20031216/ap_on_go_co/saddam_mcdermott_2

[in_cog_ni_to]

7. Thank You. n/t

[NashVegas]

27. Newsmax Hatchet Job

don't shoot me

http://www.newsmax.com/archives/ic/2003/12/17/15126.shtml

Until I see a specific quote from a verified source, I buy this like I buy their inference of Dean owning 9/11 conspiracy theories.

[maddezmom]

5. I agree with her

just have a hard time believing anything reported on Faux.

[bearfartinthewoods]

6. mort krondockee (sp?)

as reported...mort did an interview with her in the green room of fox ny studio. this is where/when she said it. i think the guy is a columnist? anyone know if/where he rights or reports? i think he is a regular on the fox 6pm news show with hume but i'm not sure.

[La_Serpiente]

8. Oh boy

Mort Kondrake used to be a writer for The New Republic, you know that "so-called" left of centre magazine which is actually a neo-conservative whore.

Anyhow, he is a conservative by my standards.

[bearfartinthewoods]

12. if he is a conservative, why is he telling this tale?

i can't see any way this helps bush. if it isn't true and osama is never produced, bush looks bad. if it is true and bush pulls him out it will lok like a political move, no matter when it happens.

i'm confused...this does not compute

[La_Serpiente]

15. It's news

Even NewsMax reported it. Maybe they are trying to compare McDermott with Albright, I don't know.

[RandomKoolzip]

46. It helps * by making members of Clinton's staff look like leftist wackos.

Not that *I* think it does, but the intention is clear to me: paint all democrats as conspiracy theory wackos...Albright just happens to be of a larger stature than most.

Fox, Newsweek, etc. will do their best to discredit Albright and McKInney, and MdDermott, etc. even though they might be telling the truth.

My opinion is that Albright should ahve waited until the Primaries to get this out, when the media climate is more hospitable to Democrats.

[LittleDannySlowhorse]

51. It's designed to make all liberals sound like

paranoid conspircay theorists who are so committed to terrorist-coddling and communism that they would even stoop so low as to accuse our fearless savior George W. Christ of some kind of political chicanery.

That's my take anyway. I think the more that 9/11 starts getting into the public discourse as a Bush fuckup, the more the GOP has to press the "angry, paranoid hate speech" liberals angle.

[Zero Gravitas]

54. Freepers won't care how it looks

For the Bush Worshipers, Bush waiting for the "right time" just makes hims seem more decisive and manly in their eyes. If the "right time" is politicaly motivated and results in Bush beating some "godless liberal scum" then so much the better.

[rooboy]

9. Kondracke is associated with 'Roll Call'... whatever that is. n/t

[in_cog_ni_to]

11. C-SPAN

talks to reporters from Roll Call every morning. I think it's a Wshington D.C. paper?

[piece sine]

33. WHAT?

you participate in politicial discussions about federal leaders WITHOUT even knowing what "Roll Call" is?!?!?!

[DemBones DemBones]

73. Why not make a helpful, positive comment?

Such as, "Everyone interested in politics should get to know "Roll Call" because______________."

One of the best thing about DU is that we all learn from each other here.

[grannylib]

87. Thank you for that; good point. Condecension does not help us...

[in_cog_ni_to]

10. Mort Kondracke

Mort Kondracke

Tuesday, October 15, 2002

Morton Kondracke, a 37-year veteran journalist, joined the FOX team in October 1996 and became co-host of The Beltway Boys, along with Fred Barnes, executive editor of The Weekly Standard. Kondracke is also a regular contributor on Fox News Channel's Special Report with Brit Hume, the #1 weeknight political program on cable.



He served 16 years as a regular panelist on the NBC/PBS public affairs show, The McLaughlin Group, seen on over 350 stations nationwide.

Before becoming the executive editor and columnist of Roll Call, the Hill’s feisty independent newspaper, Kondracke served as executive editor and senior editor of The New Republic from 1977-1991. He was Washington bureau chief of Newsweek and was a regular panelist on "This Week with David Brinkley," and a columnist for The Wall Street Journal. In addition, Kondracke received the Washington Post "Crystal Ball Award" in 1994 for predicting the Republican takeover of Congress and was runner-up in 1996.

Kondracke chronicled his wife Milly's struggle with Parkinson’s disease in his 2001 book entitled Saving Milly. Personally and professionally dedicated to finding a cure for Parkinson's disease, he is a member of both the Parkinson's Action Network and the Michael J. Fox Foundation for Parkinson's Research.

Kondracke graduated from Dartmouth College and was a Nieman Fellow at Harvard University.

[Triana]

80. dunno but...

...there is someone on Moby.com that posts as 'mortonkondrack' (sp?)all the time - real rightwingnut.

[playahata1]

84. Kondracke.

n/t

[letthewindblow]

22. Even a broken clock

tells the correct time twice a day.

[Gman]

30. People have been speculating about this since last year

I have no doubt they will have an October surprise of some sorts and it may likely be this.

The way you beat this is to continually beat the drums about some kind of "October Surpise" beginning some time next summer to save a failed "presidency" (and I use that term loosely). Then when it happens, say I'm glad we got him, but then accuse him of grandstanding with his October surprise to cover up a failed presidency. It will be very difficult at that point in time to keep things focused on the election.

Those of you old enough will remember that the Reagan campaign in '80 so greatly feared a Carter October surprise that Daddy went to London to meet with the Iranians and negotiated that they would not release the Iran hostages before the election. I wouldn't have a problem if we did the exact same thing with Al-queda. They would do and have done the very same thing.

[DemBones DemBones]

72. Nixon was also said to have met with the North Vietnamese leaders

and asked that they not agree to a peace treaty (negotiations were underway in Paris at the time) until after the election, promising that if he was elected, they'd get better terms from him than from his opponent. I think he did this in 1968, when LBJ had decided not to run for re-election and his VP, Hubert Humphrey, was the Dem nominee. Or did he do it in 1972, when running as the incumbent against Democratic Senator George McGovern? Anybody have a clearer memory on this or do I have to Google it?

[in_cog_ni_to]

13. For Madeline to say something like that...

she must know something we don't. I hope she's spoiling their timing on when they will arrest him. This kind of shit can backfire on the Bush regime. Didn't Krondacke follow up with...."How do you know they know where he is?" Probably not. He wouldn't want to take that bit of damning information too far. It might make the fuhrer look bad. :(

[kcordell]

14. Good Grief

Madeline Not-so-bright doesn't know jack. She's an idiot. Send her back to North Korea for more dancing lessons.

[tkmorris]

16. Nice

An unjustified character attack. You wanna share with the class just WHY you dislike Ms. Albright so much?

[madrchsod]

17. not so bright-

doesn`t know jack-she`s an idiot-dance lessons in north korea-what no clinton`s penis?

[0007]

19. Kcordell

Please check out this video and then pass it on to your friends.

http://www.angelfire.com/creep/gwbush/remindus.html

[salin]

47. Please explain?

I have no idea to what you are referring.

[John_H]

31. Jesus. All of our people should be saying this all the time anyway!

Let's play like the bushes!

[markus]

77. Story of the Week: We're all Insane

Heard it on Rush yesterday running lunch errands.

I figure if Rush spends more than five minutes on the subject, it's an "approved talking point".

They will take Dean's 9/11 comment as they chose to spin it and beat this into the ground. It will really piss off people who want to think they can give the President the benefit of the doubt, even if they're currrently soft on re-elect, and turn them into solid Pro-American, Pro-Bush droids.

There was a nice bit today in one of the syndicated columnists (Katherine I-Can't Remember Her Last Name) reading out of the Dean blog at how sad we all are that Osama was caught.

This is going to be a bloody Are You An American or Are You A Democrat elections. And I don't think it looks good for us (even with Clark or Lieberman). And I just can't get my arms around Lieberman, no matter how hard anybody here asks me.

[0007]

18. Like to see a link, with Madeline Albright own words -

I never watch FAUX News.

[Ernesto]

48. I'm wid you 0007

TALK TALK.... TALK TALK.... TALK TALK.....

[ma4t]

20. this is sad

I've gotten where I expect a high percentage of tin-foil hat wearers here at DU; however, it's pretty sad when former administration officials start wearing them.

[KayLaw]

23. It IS sad

It's sad we have a current administration that is so sneaky and dishonest, and has been caught in so many lies and distortions, otherwise sane and trusting people - like myself - feel the need for " tin hats."

[RandomKoolzip]

49. Methinks you need to shift the axis on which your brain revloves...

The sad part is the lying, manipulative, underhanded approach this administration has used to handle public information on the "War on Terra." They've lied to us SO many times, I refuse to give them the benefit of the doubt anymore; they'd have to earn it back by actually doing some good and being honest about it for me to accept another one of their bullshit lines.

I get the feeling sometimes that some theories that get dismissed by some as "tin Hat" theories will be dismissed even if and when the evidence is too obvious to ignore. Reminds me of a guy I knew who once forgot to bring his umbrella to work, even though it was raining, and even though the Weather Report said it was going to rain, even refused to acknowledge that it WAS raining. He was soaking wet, and said to me, "It's not raining, it's a beautiful day..." He was trying to save face because it was obvious he was unprepared. Of course, he was also a republican.......

[petrock2004]

60. thank you for saying that

i'm personally really freaked out and disgusted by people wanting to label somebody like albright as a "paranoid conspiracy theorist." i mean, maybe she sholdn't have said that in a faux news studio, but honestly. calling people paranoid because they don't blindly accept everything the current misadministration does as the absolute truth smacks of coulter.

shouldn't we all be questioning this? even if we're wrong? isn't it our duty as americans to stay informed? and what if bush does drag osama out next october... would that change your mind? (not you RKz, just the people calling albright and other dems "tin hat" wearers.)

:(

[nothingshocksmeanymore]

52. Whether you liked her policies or not, ALbright is quite brilliant

And if she makes a statement such as this, I would tend to give it great weight.

BTW, insofar as theories are concerned, that is what gets bred when a government acts in secrecy as though they were above the law.

[dusty64]

21. This IS interesting.

Unfortunately like the story of how we let him get away before, this will get little media play. Except of course the extreme rightwing whackos calling her a "traitor".

[matcom]

24. can someone dig up a link?

i would LOVE to see this in print somewhere. my father, for one, would shit his pants if i can get a story with Albright on record for saying this

[bearfartinthewoods]

28. sorry, no quote ...it's newsmax so take that into consideration

http://www.newsmax.com/archives/ic/2003/12/17/15126.shtml

also world net daily

http://worldnetdaily.com/news/article.asp?ARTICLE_ID=36182

Former Secretary of State Madeleine Albright told Fox News Channel analyst Morton Kondracke yesterday she suspects President Bush knows the whereabouts of Osama bin Laden and is simply waiting for the most politically expedient moment to announce his capture.

Kondracke made the announcement about what Albright told him backstage before an appearance on another Fox show on "Special Report With Brit Hume."

Kondracke was incredulous that a former secretary of state could believe something like that about a U.S. administration.

"She was not smiling when she said this," offered Kondracke, who believes Albright is serious about the conspiracy theory.

[nn2004]

25. Good. Now get Dean and every other Dem to make the charge

We need to hit the airwaves with a unified voice that bush is holding osama, let 911 happen, rigged the voting machines, killed Wellstone and every fact that we have proven here. It's time to play hardball.

[bearfartinthewoods]

26. please keep it straight

as i heard it, she said bush knows where he is, not that bush is holding him.

[bearfartinthewoods]

34. CORECTION!!!!!!

jeeeze... i say keep it straight then i screw it up...

according to the printed version, she said she SUSPECTED that he knew
where osama was.

[piece sine]

35. actually....

nothing that you list above has been 'proven" here or anywhere else. Some of us Dems. avoid those tinfoil hats. Soem of us need to keep our feet on the ground. It's going to be difficult enough in the best of circumstances to defeat Bush in '04 without flaunting conspiracy theories. Far-left nut-jobs play right into Rove's best-case scenario.

[boneygrey]

42. GOP attack

Comments like what we have heard from McDermott and may have heard from Albright only play into the GOP's hands. They're writing the attack ads for them. Besides, I don't think this administration is competent enough to pull off what Albright theorizes(if she actually made said this assertion).

[boneygrey]

44. GOP attack

Comments like what we have heard from McDermott and may have heard from Albright only play into the GOP's hands. They're writing the attack ads for them. Besides, I don't think this administration is competent enough to pull off what Albright theorizes(if she actually made said this assertion).

[loudsue]

59. Boneygrey & Piece Sine....wtf....I totally disagree

Piece Sine says:"Far-left nut-jobs play right into Rove's best-case scenario."

I'd have to disagree....it's playing into Rove's hands when even supposedly well-informed "Dems" call OTHER Dems "far-left nut-jobs".

Sounds like those words came right out of Rove's mouth.

So....you guys think shrub is ABOVE holding Osama's capture out until it's time for another photo-op? You must be real fans of his.

:kick:

[boneygrey]

64. loudsue...wtf...now hold on a minute

I believe the old expression is "how does it play in Peoria" applies here.I/we may agree with what McDermott and Albright speculate, but your average, uninformed voter could be swayed by how the GOP portrays this. You know, conspiracy buffs, tin hats, etc. We aren't doing ourselves any favors here. As far as being a fan of Rove, I won't dignify that charge with a comment.

[DemBones DemBones]

76. It is not wise to throw out facts with "conspiracy bath water."

There are facts as well as speculation about what Bush knew prior to 9/11 and what he could and should have to prevent the attacks or protect Americans against them. The GOP would love to paint it all as "conspiracy theory." Democrats can combat that ploy by sticking to what can be demonstrated.

An example would be that on 9/11 the Pentagon was, quite ironically, carrying out an exercise for which the hypothesis was "planes attacking the Pentagon." Yet administration officials have tried to sell the idea that "no one ever thought of airplanes being used as missiles." In addition to ignoring the Pentagon exercise being carried out on the very day of the attacks, this ignores a history of planes being used as missiles going back to Japanese kamikaze pilots; intelligence information on previous plans by Islamic extremists then based in Manila to highjack American transoceanic flights and blow them up over the ocean; the threat of attacks from the air by Al Quaeda at the G-8 meeting in Genoa in summer 2001 (Bush and other stayed on ships in the harbor rather than on land so that they were better protected.) There's a good bit more, notably multiple warnings of impending Al Qaeda attacks from intelligence sources of this country and several other nations, but I think I've made my point that there are facts that demonstrate negligence.

We do need to have facts and be careful not to confuse facts with speculation in order to avoid the "conspiracy theory" trap. But we also must confront tha right when they try to use "Oh, that's just a conspiracy theory" to dismiss any facts inconvenient to them. That is how the media and PNAC defused the revelation that PNAC exists and discouraged "serious" people from learning more about PNAC and its plans. I saw it used against Wesley Clark recently. As I recall, he remarked about someone in the Pentagon telling him about a list of countries the administration plans to invade. The article scoffed at the idea, yet all the reporter needed to do was read PNAC's plans.

Everything that has been branded "conspiracy theory" should be carefully researched to determine what truth is in it. Otherwise, we lose.

[YNGW]

29. Oh Jeez!

You know Madeline, if you also believe little green men are going to fly here from Mars and take all our dylithium crystals, that's fine, just keep it to yourself.

:eyes: :crazy: :dunce: :freak: :silly: :tinfoilhat:

If this keeps up, my prediction for 2004 is this (and I don't care who the nominee would be):

We're gonna get hammered!!

[Rose Siding]

41. Are you so sure that the very connected,

former Sec of State, doesn't know what she's talking about but you do? And with the enthusiastic mockery of multiple smilies, no less!

I'd be very curious to know on what basis you've formed such an opinion?

[OneTwentyoNine]

74. Yeah,well they all mocked DU about "Bush Knew" didn't they??

Well looky,looky,reports now surfacing that the Bush WH did INDEED have plenty of advance warning about the coming events of 9/11.

So you say its just too far fetched that Bush knows where or is holding OBL. Bullshit!! Nothing and I mean NOTHING is to far fetched for these Nazi's running this country.

David

[YNGW]

82. I know this...

We continue to have people saying that Repugs are nazis and fascists and keep floating all the unsubstantiated 9/11 and Iraqi conspiracy theories and the whole party is going to get labeled has having a bunch of wingnuts and we're going to get hammered in 2004. And the blame will lay squarley at the feet of those who were saying these things, and yes, I will be reminding those people of their foolish blunders.

[1songbird]

32. I'm sorry but I now believe this as well.

I think Osama will not be found alive of course but he will be found in due time if Chimpy's popularity starts to plunge again. This is the fear I have for the candidates that are making an issue of Osama's capture. We should not focus on Osama until the last month of the campaign. Let's make it hard for them to use this with credibility. Dems should focus on the failure of the war on terror in general and not one specific boogeyman. There is definitely enough ammunition to fully support this. The Bush Administration will not want to easily give up their strawman Osama, but I believe they will if the election is in jeapardy.

[RememberTheCoup]

36. and STILL no reliable link or direct quote

Why even waste our time with some Newsmax BS? If she said this, it would have made mainstream news by now. Find a direct quote in a real news source and then we can discuss it.

[bearfartinthewoods]

39. kondrake was just shown on fox

and he said she said "do you supposed bush has osama ______ somewhere.

i wasn't watching and i missed the blank.

it looks like they are running the clip as part of their rotation so it shouldn't be hard to see it. and i'll bet it will be on their 6PM eastern show too.

[ElsewheresDaughter]

37. i heard that bush already has osama and will pop him out at the

best moment for the greatest political advantage in time for election

[underpants]

38. "Green room" discussion with "round table guy" she said "Suppose..."

I heard this this morning. The guy who eidts Rollcall(can't remember his name) had a conversation with Albright and she said something along the lines of "Suppose the Bush adminsitration knows where Osam is and wait until just before the elections to announce it..."

The reporter of this said that she did NOT have a smile on her face, she wasn't kidding. Of course they lumped this in with Dermot's comments to make the Dems sound like crazy conspiracy nuts.

I don't personally subscribe to any of this. Was Saddam being held for the right time? Who knows but I doubt it. Nothing (Plame/Energy meetings/etc.) is followed up on these schmoes anyway so I doubt that the Halliburton thing would warrant pulling that trump card out.

ABC reported last night that sources tell them that they are pretty sure that OBL is in a 40 square mile area in Pakistan but that US forces aren't allowed in there. I heard the Fox morning cheerleaders saying that the assassination attack of Musharaff might open his eyes to the need to let US forces in there (there is a conspiracy theory for ya-I actually thought of that when I heard the news of the attack) so we will see how that plays out. The locals in that area of Pakistan also would see OBL as a guest and would defend him to the death.

[Junkdrawer]

40. Last week's capture of Saddam DAYS after the Iraqi Tribunals...

were set up was just too obvious. Anyone paying attention has to know what's going on.

[Cheswick2.0]

43. does that make her a loony leftist conspiracy theorist?

just asking

[Timefortruth]

45. That was no accident on her part.

She was letting them know that she is on to them. When the "October Surprise" happens she can say "I told you so." For now she can say, "How did I know they were going to use my comment?"

[lotteandollie]

50. Anyone that stupid...

should keep their opinion to themselves

[Name removed]

53. Deleted message

Message removed by moderator. Click here to review the message board rules.

[Catherine Vincent]

57. You think Ms. Albright is stupid?

How do you feel about chimpy? Do you think he's smart?

[lotteandollie]

69. Hey Cat_girl25

To truthfully answer your question, I'm sure they are both a lot smarter than I am, but smart people can do some very stupid things. Our prisons are full of them. I have a theory that roughly 20% of the people will believe anything they hear. No matter how outrageous the idea, 20% of the people are willing to embrace it. When someone like Ms. Albright says something like that, knowing it's a lie, she plays to that 20%. Throw in the fact, that she once had a position of power and prestige and the number grows to 25% and possibly more. That is horribly reckless, and she, of all people, should know better. The rest of the world is listening in to what we are saying in this country. A true statesman, measures their words, because they will get quoted. I want our leaders to be civil, decent and put the country's interests ahead of their own. That comment wasn't close.

We are probably opposites on this one as well. I have a couple of young dogs. I'm sure you are plenty sharp enough to guess their names.

[stickdog]

78. It's been tough getting this argument to fly since Nazism became so

unpopular.

[boneygrey]

65. lotteandollie

Welcome to DU

[lotteandollie]

67. Thank you.

I was expecting an ugly comment about my grammar. I hope you have a great day!

[Wapsie B]

55. I think Madeline is just

doing the right thing by spoiling chimpy's "suprise" capture of OBL at a strategic time in the future. Listen, the guy needs dialysis for god's sake. How many places could he be? I said capture but I don't know if they'd take this one alive or not beings how close the Bin Laden and Bush crime familys are. Can't trust a potential rat you know.

Let Madeline and anyone else come out and piss on chimpy's parade. Screw him! Bring our soldiers home!

[Freddie Stubbs]

56. She said that she was kidding

Albright: Bin Laden Comments Were 'Tongue-in-Cheek'

Wednesday, December 17, 2003

WASHINGTON — Former Secretary of State Madeleine Albright (search) insisted Wednesday that she was just kidding when she wondered aloud whether the Bush administration is holding Usama bin Laden (search) captive, waiting to break him out at the best political moment.

It was a "tongue-in-cheek comment and was not intended in any other way," Albright told Fox News.

But witnesses to Albright's comment said the ambassador did not appear to be joking Tuesday when she suggested President Bush may reveal bin Laden's capture as an "October surprise" (search) before next November's presidential election.

Albright was in the Fox News studio's green room waiting to appear on an evening program when she made the remark.

more: http://www.foxnews.com/printer_friendly_story/0,3566,106012,00.html

[evil_orange_cat]

61. I figured it was taken out of context... thanks

n/t

[Devilock]

58. can't find a link, but ...

According to one of the Fox anchors, the former SoS offered a clarification today, stating that the earlier comments (made to Kondracke) were in jest, tongue-in-cheek, and not meant to be taken seriously. This was just relayed on-screen, so I have no idea if her new statement can be found on the Internet.

edit: *looks up* Oh, there's one now. :)

[Gloria]

62. This really isn't a new idea at all....I've read articles in the foreign

press, I think Asia Times Online specifically, about how Newsweek magazine can find Osama, why can't the Bush Admin. I know that Newsweek was cited, so I guess they in the past have written something about all this.

I do believe they think he's in the Pakistan border region; hasn't the US been running an operation recently in that area? I don't know if it's still going on....

[Scott Lee]

63. If this is true, then its another impeachable offense by Bush-hole

Knowing where a terror leader is, and waiting for the October surprise moment to grab them thereby allowing said terror leader to plan more terror in the meantime - that looks an awfull lot like aiding and abetting terror (treasonable).

I have my suspicions this was done with Saddam.

[Cocoa]

66. Mort Kondracke?

Fox? NewsMax? WorldNetDaily?

:wtf:

[amazona]

68. if this is true we should demand capture and trial

This is getting ridiculous. You allow the little guys to run free to lead you to the top guys. You do not allow the top paymaster to run free!

And where is Mullah Omar? He is just as guilty. He gave these dudes a place to hide and to plan and to train.

They should both be on public trial and forced to explain themselves to the people of the world in an international court.

[lotteandollie]

70. Not True

It was a reckless statement.

[eissa]

71. I believe it

and yes I usually do blow off anything that sounds remotely like a conspiracy as just paranoia. But as soon as Saddam was captured the first thing my husband said was "I bet they've been tracking him for a while and were waiting to actually capture him as soon as his polls started going down." I wouldn't doubt for a second that we magically find Osama just before the election. Reagan taught them well.

[grasswire]

75. I saw....

...several of the FAUX team talking about her statement. They said several times that she says it was a joking comment. They linked her statement to McDermott's and Cynthia McKinney's and Dean's allusion to LIHOP.

Innoculation is the political jargon for what the VRWC is doing here.

Next, the right-wing pundits will challenge Dems in this way: "ARE YOU SAYING THAT BUSH blahblahblah????"

Straight out of the playbook.

[Junkdrawer]

81. Boy, isn't that their MO...

Every slimy move on their part is either "So, what - no big deal" -OR- "How dare you"

[Triana]

79. no doubt...

...waiting for the most 'politically opportune' moment to spring him - when his ratings sag again, they'll prance out Osama - then they'll PLANT some WMD in Iraq and prance those out just before the next Selection...with Bu$h it's All McPropoganda All The Time.

[spotbird]

83. To: kcordell, piece sine,boneygrey,boneygrey,lotteandollie and ma4t

We are talking about pathological liars here. The truth is sometimes convenient andthat's when it's used. If the truth is inconvenient a fabrication is created, if the truth is partly helpful all the better, that part is used. It does not matter in the slightest if the story that goes out is truth or fiction to these people. A lie is the same as the truth, it is as easily told, and getting the public to believe it is so simple for them that there is barely any sport in it.

The problem Democrats face is our failure to call them on their lies, not that we speculate about whether a story is fact or fiction.

My question is why in the world do you think they are telling the truth, because they say so? My good God, where have you been for the last four years? You sound like a beaten wife who, upon her 10th discharge from the hospital after abuse, returns to her abuser because,” He says he won’t beat me again, and this time I know he really means it.”

They have never given any reason to believe them on a major issue. Only fools wouldn’t be suspicious at very least.

If you have any doubt about the Secretary’s comment remember that the Israeli intelligence service also has its doubts about Saddam’s capture. Remember also that the talking point blasting skeptics as delusional was circulated before there were any public skeptics talking about the Saddam capture. They jump on an off-the-record comment simply to gain the upper hand in discrediting those who would go on the record with doubt, not because they have the truth.

But really, where have you been for the past three years? I really want to know upon what in the world you base your faith in this administration. Give specific examples of times these people have shown honesty, please, I’d love to know about them! If you answer do it without attacking the critics, simply explain how these people earned your faith.

edited for clarity.

[Lefty59]

85. Credibility

There went Albright's credibilty with most of the populace. One better have compelling evidence before going out on such a limb.

[spotbird]

86. Say Lefty, would you please answer my post no.83.

It wasn't directed at you but you sound like you'll be able to answer it anyway.