The One Thing I Would Like To Point Out (Saddam's Capture)

[Plaid Adder]

I didn't get to feed my pundit habit today, so I just wanna say one thing:

When we finally got Saddam, did we do it by dropping many tons of explosives out of airplanes? No, we did not.

Would SOMEONE in the chain of command SOMEWHERE bring this fact to the attention of SOMEBODY in charge of military planning sometime soon, so that they can re-evaluate the effectiveness of this strategy?

Thank you,

The Plaid Adder

[Wetzelbill]

1. good call, Plaid Adder

[cirej2000]

2. You don't have to agree with the war to see

that your point doesn't really mean anything.

They're not dropping tons of explosives anymore since there are no major forces to defeat in Iraq.

That's simplifying things a bit.

Maybe they should've had more cooperation with the Iraqis or more special forces types on the ground in Iraq. But they needed to use heavy force early on to meet their goals.

[Don Claybrook]

3. Which goals are you referring to?

Did you mean the unprecedented invasion and takeover of a country in order to steal its resources and send a strong message to the rest of the Arab community by killing tens of thousands of "examples"? Or were you referring to some other goal?

Maybe you meant that we needed to bomb the living hell out of them in order to find the weapons of mass destruction? How's that one coming along?

Please clarify, and thank you.

[cirej2000]

5. Getting to Saddam

If it was so easy to do without force...then why didn't the uprising in 91 work? Remember when * Sr left the Shiites high and dry and they were massacred by Saddam's forces.

If you want to draw and quarter everyone who doesn't toe the script 100%, fine.

I'm a Dean supporter, I don't follow scripts!

[Plaid Adder]

7. We were bombing Tikrit not too long ago,

despite the fact that it had been months since the Iraqi army was a factor. If that wasn't about trying to get Saddam, then I fail to see what the point was, unless it was just to show that we can kill more people than the "Saddam loyalists" can.

C ya,

The Plaid Adder

[cirej2000]

10. My my such nasty venom adder

So you're saying that the military had massive bombing raids against Tikrit or tactical bombing to assist the troops against targets.

Now I know that the generals here are going to say they want to stop the fighting through Zen but maybe you should just admit that you know diddly about military tactics.

Do I agree with the invasion? No! Do I support *? Nope.

Do I support simple-minded beliefs that military force against a determined and ruthless enemy can be replaced with good thoughts and negotiation? Please!

I appreciate you opinion, but it just doesn't fit the reality. No matter what you say or rant.

[Must_B_Free]

12. You are being naive yourself

If we examine the stated policy goals of those now making policy, we need to look at PNAC. PNAC stated that their goal was to demonstrate US military superiority by fighting simultaneous theater wars.

In short - "Shock and Awe" was intended to shock and awe the entire world into submission, not just the Iraqis.

It was a mafioso style threat to the planet to submit to modern day feudalism.

Democracy is going to be smashed worldwide to be replaced with an illusion of freedom and modern corporate slavery. America was the stronghold for Democracy. Now that we have been defeated and deceived, the rest of the world is not a threat to the royal families pulling the strings

[cirej2000]

13. Sorry...

I'm not trying to start anything here folks. It's just that sometimes it seems like we're all chanting the same mantra without thinking things through.

I just get tired of hearing stuff about this stupid war and not about how we're going to get Dean (or whoever else in office). Alot of us have never even been in uniform or even understand military history, but we're harping on this.

We need to focus on winning in 04 not this crap. Dr. Dean was gracious and wise on Sunday after the capture of Saddam. While Lieberman and Kerry went to attack him. I don't know how Dr. Dean would've handled 9/11...who cares? We need to win not be sophomoric and single-minded.

So I apologize for my comments.

I was wrong to say thta the original post meant nothing. But that's what the neo-cons are going to say. And one thing they know...it's war!

Sorry.

-kev

[Don Claybrook]

14. You focus on whatever you want to focus on

However, do not presume to tell me what to focus on. It's not your choice, and you have no say in the matter whatsoever.

George W. Bush murdered tens of thousands of innocent human beings in this "stupid war", and I'm not going to go refocusing somewhere else because you think it would be a good idea.

As to the charge of chanting the same mantra without thinking things through, you seem determined to advocate for NOT thinking about anything any longer.

That's not how it works for me, but thanks for trying anyway.

[cirej2000]

15. Gotcha

Yeah, not the first time I've gotten caught up in the heat of the moment today.

Thanks,

-kev

[Plaid Adder]

16. You know, there is a wide variety of Dean threads to choose from,

if that's what you want to talk about. Ditto for candidate/horse race threads of all types and kinds. I personally feel like it might do us some good to talk about other things once in a while.

No, I don't know a whole lot about military tactics. But I do know what they promised us would happen after "Shock And Awe," and I have seen it fail to materialize. I think it is important to at least raise the question of whether this war *has* to be fought the way it's being fought, and whether at a certain point overwhelming force starts to create more problems than it solves. Because if we just accept that the only way to fight terrorism is the way we're fighting it now, then I don't see that it really matters too much WHO we put in office.

My original post called, albeit somewhat stridently, for someone to "re-evaluate" the "Shock and Awe" strategy. Based on its results, I don't see why that's an unreasonable request. Nor do I see why the fact that I have "never worn a uniform" disqualifies me from expressing an opinion about the way we are fighting this war. As an American, I will be held responsible for the actions of my government whether I wear a uniform or not. As I see it, if I just say, "well, I'm not a general, I have to just accept what they tell me about what they're doing and why it's necessary," I am not living up to my responsibilities as a citizen of this country.

Your mileage may vary, of course.

The Plaid Adder

[BlueEyedSon]

9. $5,000 Ice Cream Cone.

That's what Saddam is. Nice to have, absolutely insane to have at the price.

Oh, and guess who's paying?

[mikita]

6. thanks for responding....

great questions. Can't WAIT to see the answers....

[Rex]

18. When did Iraq have major forces to defeat?

You meant under Poppy Bush? I'm confused.

[onecitizen]

4. But then Cheney and his.........

buds wouldn't have gotten those very lucrative contracts to rebuild the place. You had to bomb it to build it back.

I know what you're saying. It's like we've been transported to another dimension where the truth just plays no role whatsoever.

[Old and In the Way]

20. The New Republican Business Model

(1) Declare War on Defenseless Countries.
(2) Hand out no bid supply contracts to friends to support the military machine.
(3)A fter destroying infrastructure and "winning" war, hand out no bid contracts to friends to rebuild what you destroyed.

Repeat and Raid Treasury as often as necessary.

The Carlyle Group, in conjunction with the bin Laden Group are pleased to announce-

"We're in the Destruction/Construction/Destruction Business."

[Must_B_Free]

21. no joke

that's why after the buildings were destroyed, Bush called it "Mission Complete"

[Ekova]

8. I'm not sure but...

It may be a simple case of * and his handlers being impressed with the spectacle of "the explosion". It pains me how little thought is given to the everyday Iraqi civilian.

Look beyond our borders, find Riverbend...

[Selky]

11. Another Iraqi blogger you might want to check out

is http://healingiraq.blogspot.com/

Zeyad reported on the Iraqi demonstrations of 12/10 that did not get much coverage.

A couple other Iraqi blogs are:

http://messopotamian.blogspot.com/

and

http://iraqthemodel.blogspot.com/

Very interesting reading.

[sistersofmercy]

17. Spot on Plaid Adder!

[prolesunited]

19. Yeah, but it looks so much cooler

when you blow shit up. :puke:

I still remeber the "Shock and Awe" campaign streaming across my television screen. I found it just as disturbing as watching the Twin Towers collapse. In both cases, the lives of wives and mothers, husbands and sons were being destroyed.

[KTM]

22. Miss Adder....

:loveya:

[maggrwaggr]

23. but Halliburton could only charge 3 million for filling in the spider hole

I mean, come on! We have to blow a lot of shit up so Halliburton can send us the bill for fixing it! And then we can replace all the bombs we blowed up with new ones, gotta keep those bomb-assembly-lines moving, moving, moving .....