Illinois Governor George "lyin'"Ryan & the Death Penalty-

[Beaker]

Could Gorge Ryan's sudden interest in, and crusade against the death penalty in Illinois toward the end of his term have been motivated by the fact that a case could be made for him to face it?

If he's found guilty of felony corruption charges in the "licenses for sale" scandal that he's now been caught up in, he could feasibly also be brought up on felony murder charges, since a truck driver who was driving on an illegally "purchased" commercial truck driver's license- Ricardo Guzman, was involved in a tragic accident that killed 6 children from one family travelling in a van on the same road.

Since those licenses were sold to truckers from all over the country, it could be that there are more fatalities that could be linked back to Ryan and his cronies. Getting a CDL is a much more complicated and intense procedure than just getting a regular driver's license- an unqualified person at the wheel of an 18-wheeler is a very dangerous thing.

[Padraig18]

1. No one despises that rat bastard more than I do, Beaker, BUT...

I don't think his moratorium, his pardons and commutations had anything to do with the license-for-bribes scandal, except as a way to ameliorate people's highly-negative opinion of him...

[chiburb]

2. No way.

1st, I'm not ruling out the possibility that his humanitarian act re the death penalty was to "improve" his image with a potential jury pool. I don't think so, but it's possible.
2nd, the deaths were caused by a piece of the truck coming off and crashing into the van. The driver's license, legal or not, did not cause those deaths (despite what John Kass in the Tribune says). I could see your scenario if the illegal driver had caused it by not knowing how to drive, but it didn't go down that way.

[Padraig18]

3. Didn't the indictments give you a warm, fuzzy feeling, chiburb?

:evilgrin:

[chiburb]

4. I'm trying real hard not to gloat over this...

As much as Ryan deserves this, I can't help but think the other shoe is gonna drop. I suspect Daley is next, or at least those close to him. He's too close to the Duff family (mob ties), they contibute BIG to his campaigns, and they got $100,000,000 in city contracts.
Do you think AssCrack is going to indict a Republican without a tit for tat?
Not saying Daley won't deserve it too, but that's why I'm not finding any joy in Ryan's downfall...

[Beaker]

6. You have to Give Senator Peter Fitzgerald his props over all this-

He was the one that pushed and pushed for that other Fitzgerald guy(Patrick- no relation) to be the federal prosecutor for the region.
For a repuke, Senator Fitzgerald hasn't been all bad, and is a helluva lot better than Al Salvi would have been.

[chiburb]

8. Couldn't agree more. n/t

.

[Beaker]

14. The best thing Carol Mosely-Braun ever did for Illinois citizens-

was to lose her bid for re-election, when you look at it that way.

hey thanks, carol!

:hi::party::toast:

[Beaker]

5. If someone dies due to/in the commission of a felony-

it is felony murder.
part of the CDL is knowing/assuring the safety of the vehicle you're driving. Guzman was an unqualified driver in an unsafe vehicle who shouldn't/wouldn't have been on the road but for the licenses-for-bribes.
I'm not saying that it's likely that charges will be brought- they probably won't...BUT- once that accident happened, and it was discovered how the guy got his liscense- George and his guilty conscience probably realized that a case could be made for him to face charges that could make him liable for the death penalty. Suppose that in the years after Guzman, there were a couple dozen more fatal accidents where the driver was found to be operating on an illegally obtained Illinois CDL- and that Ryan's complicity was ultimately revealed(as it has now been)...You don't think that with a guilty conscience haunting him, that George could envision a scenario in which the public was clammoring for him to get the "hot-shot"?

[dfong63]

7. imagine if the same standard were applied to Dubyah,

the "death penalty king" of Texas. or if the same standard were applied to Ken Lay or Dick Cheney.

but it won't be.

[ProfessorGAC]

9. No

The law in Illinois isn't written that way. The death penalty has a few very clear mitigating circumstances that must be met, and being tangentially involved in a death is not one of them.

As much as i think this is just what they can prove, (and is a mere pittance of what really went on), he's not liable for the death penalty, no matter what, and i actually think he took a principled position.

He has a history of doing some pretty good things for the people. He just forgot that cheating and graft is not in the best interests of the constituency. I'm suspecting that as the house of cards was tumbling down around him, he had an epiphany of conscience that made him remember what got him into that biz in the first place. (I live about 18 miles from Ryan and know folks who know him personally.)

I wouldn't attribute too much conspiracy to him doing the most important thing he ever did in public life.
The Professor

[Beaker]

10. hey professor-

the G doesn't by any chance stand for Gilmore, does it?

[chiburb]

11. Well said... n/t

.

[greatauntoftriplets]

16. I agree, Professor.

I have a grudging respect for Ryan, and he didn't get as much money as Paul Powell. Remember Mr. Shoeboxes stuffed full of cash?

[Beaker]

19. How do you know that George didn't get as much money as Powell?

his shoeboxes weren't found until after he was dead. For all we know, instead of a closet full of shoeboxes filled with cash, George could have a storage locker full of suitcases...inflation, you know.

[davsand]

12. Funny thing about Ryan, he was not that bad on Dem issues.

If you stop to think about it, Ryan was never THAT bad on Dem issues. Part of the reason he won the seat initially was because he ran against Glen Poshard--and anti choice Dem. Ryan was pro-choice. I know more than one regularly Dem voting woman who either stayed home and skipped that race or else crossed over and voted for Ryan.

Ryan supported Gay rights as well as a few pretty critical abortion initiatives in his term. He was a scum bag and there is no denying it--but I remember a few times joking with my local GOP guys that they screwed up and didn't run a guy I hated...

There is no room for debate that the Illinois justice system is seriously flawed. I used to handle hundreds of letters every year from prisoners here in Illinois seeking help with appeals and other legal issues. Some of the stories were pretty typical--"my lawyer sucked" or the SODDI (Some Other Dude Did It) defense, but there were some that just were gut wrenching. They included things like being beaten in Cook County till they confessed (He was later freed) or Prosecutors not looking at all the evidence.

I always kind of saw Ryan's thing with the death penalty as a last minute bid for good karma points--ya know? I could never credit him with doing it becasue it was the "right thing" but I suppose it is possible that he saw some of the same appeals for help that I did from convicted folks.

Either way, I think he saw himself as invulnerable. I doubt he ever expected to get caught on it right up to the time he left office.

Just my two cents...

Laura

[chiburb]

13. And thank you for your 2 cents....

Any comment on Obama's latest endorsement?
:-)

[davsand]

20. I love Shakowski if that is who you mean!

She is awesome almost all of the time! I was tickled to death to hear she'd endorsed Obama. That helps him a great deal in Chicago area, IMO, but I fear it really isn't gonna carry a lot of weight downstate except with us devoted liberals. What is your opinion of her endorsement's impact up your way?

Laura

[RPG-7]

15. my paper today..

had a quote from Dave Winters saying something like "Oh, we are just shocked, we knew Illinois had corruption but we thought it was all in Chicago and not in our party". I didn't know whether to puke or laugh. I hope this RICO stuff takes down a bunch of people and if it hits some dems, good riddance.

[veganwitch]

17. can some one help me with the license for bribes scandel

i remember hearing faintly about it but cant really remember all that went down.

what was ryan's part in it?

and considering the flack he got from commuting all those death sentences, he wasnt doing it to be popular.

[chiburb]

18. All your answers right here...

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