"Freedom Tower"

[G_j]

as a former NYer I find building the worlds tallest phallic symbol on the site of the WTC absurd (to put it mildly). Anyone agree?

edit to add link:
http://www.cnn.com/2003/US/Northeast/12/19/wtc.plan/index.html

[RBHam]

1. It;'s a slap in the face to the victims...

I'm a firm believer in the LIHOP/MIHOP theory. All the circumstantial evidence points to it, and if there wasn't such a herculean effort to aid the cover up by the politicians of both parties and their Corporate Pravda media, then I'm guessing that the good people of New York might decide that the ultimate revenge would be to build a federally funded museum devoted to the evils of the Bush Crime Syndicate. From the Harrimans and their Opium Business through to Prescott and his Nazi ties, George I and his CIA black ops and George II's War Of Terror built on a fake prestext.

Yes, THAT would be appropriate.

[G_j]

8. yes that would be appropriate n/t

[Name removed]

45. Deleted message

Message removed by moderator. Click here to review the message board rules.

[Punkingal]

2. Is this a memorial,

or an office building?

[Chants]

3. A Tomb is a Tomb is a Tomb

Should we ever build?

[G_j]

4. "The building is to include 2.6 million square feet of commercial space

would be on the market when the tower is completed in 2008."

[Punkingal]

5. Who's going to feel good working there?

But of course, that is valuable real estate, so I'm not surprised. I think it's asking for trouble to build another tower, though.

[G_j]

7. I had the same thought

it almost seems like taunting. Why the world's tallest building?

[mot78]

52. Actually it's not really the World's tallest

That's only counting a spire that goes 1,776 feet up, without that, it's about 200-300 feet shorter at the roofline, and there won't be any offices going higher than 70 stories, which does make sense economically. I'm glad they're building tall again instead of letting the site become a barren necropolis. As a New Yorker, I can attest to the fact that our skyline is an intregal part of our city, and seeing the void makes New York look and feel depressed. The Freedom Tower will definately be safer than the originals. The Twin Towers were poorly built in terms of safety standards (because the Port Authority built them, they were exempt from city building codes!) We have many other tall buildings, stadiums, and public places in our city that can be considered targets, so I don't think just building this would make it any more at risk, especially since it's location will make it one of the most guarded.

Go to this site for more information on it:

http://forums.wirednewyork.com


BTW, I agree that * is manipulating the construction of the building. Pataki better start building sooner, or after the election if he doesn't want to look like the manipulative twit he is. I wish we'd call the tower something else, like 1 New WTC,or Liberty Tower.

[jsw_81]

11. There will be a large memorial on the actual WTC footprint

The new tower will be nearby.

[JailBush]

6. The should change the name to Freedom Fries Tower, and design

it as a giant golden arch! That might also discourage the Republicans from blowing it up before Campaign 2008.

[JCMach1]

9. Its record won't stand long-- Burj Dubai is also in production

Burj Dubai


Dubai has unveiled plans for the world's tallest building, the latest in the rush to aim for the altitude title. EMAAR Properties, the leading real-estate development company in the region, has released an artist's impressions of the tower which is to be built at a location close to the prestigious Sheikh Zayed Road.

The tower, to be known as Burj Dubai (Dubai Tower in English) will create a whole new urban space in Dubai; a city that has become the region's most dynamic cities and home to over a 100 nationalities. Dubai is currently investing billions of dollars in infrastructure in an attempt to secure its future as the commercial centre of the Gulf region. Burj Dubai will be a prestige project, designed to add lustre to the amazing pace of development in the state.

The company announced the appointment of Chicago-based Skidmore, Owings & Merrill as the architectural design consultants for this landmark development. Combining residential, commercial, hotel, entertainment and leisure outlets with open green spaces, water features, pedestrian boulevards, an old town and one of the world's largest shopping malls, this project will create a new architectural landmark - a city within a city.

The tower's base and geometry was influenced by the six petal desert flower of the region with the base of the Burj Dubai 'blossoming' out to allows the tower a graceful transition from the ground.

The ‘Burj Dubai’ may have to reach 550 metres in height if it is to achieve its goal of being the world’s tallest building. Petronas Towers in Malaysia (452 meters) and the Chicago's Sears Tower (442 meters) are currently the world's highest man made towers. China too has joined in the race with its announcement of plans to build the Shanghai World Financial Center. This skyscraper is to stand some 492 meters and expected to be completed by 2007. ... http://usa2uae.com
==================================================================

Generally speaking... What Sheikh Maktoum wants, Sheikh Maktoum gets... Don't expect freedom tower to have the record for any length of time.

[jsw_81]

10. I think it's beautiful

It should send a strong message to the sick, primitive terrorist f%$ks who think that they can intimidate or destroy the United States of America.



I'd love to see those stupid Al Qaeda pricks in Afghanistan try to build something like this out of mud. Good luck.

[Blitz]

12. This artist's rendering is beautiful

I had actually preferred this design:



http://www.newyorkmetro.com/news/articles/wtc/proposals/finalplans/plan9/index.htm

It's shorter but, IMO, provided a more dramatic skyline and had more actual building and square footage (10.5 million) and less spire. However, once they pick a design, I hope that they build it quickly. It'll go a long way to healing and restoring the greatest city on earth.

[G_j]

14. I'd prefer a simple

message: "Could have been prevented, should have been prevented. The tragedy of 9-11 was shamefully used by the Bush adminstration to further it's own cynical agenda resulting in tens of thousands of needless deaths, the undermining of internation law, blatent war profiteering, the alienation of friends and allies, and the erosion of civil liberties. Let us never foget"

[number6]

65. amen

..

[Cooley Hurd]

17. A better message to send the terrorists...

...would be:

"Dear Terrorists,

We will no longer fuck wih your politics/governments or you basic human rights. We're recalling all of our CIA agents and military personnel from the Middle East. Tell ya what... You go your way, and we'll go ours.

Sincerely,
President Dean"

[Muddleoftheroad]

19. Nice marketing

Reason 6,509 why I won't vote Dean.

[Cooley Hurd]

20. Oh, so you're in favor of continuing the meddling...

...in other sovereign countries' affairs? You don't actually believe that "they hate us for our freedoms," do you?

[Cheswick2.0]

24. They don't hate us for our freedoms

they hate us for taking theirs away. They also hate us for our freedom fries.

[Muddleoftheroad]

25. All nations "meddle"

And even if we don't, it doesn't mean they won't meddle here.

Our mere existence is meddlesome to those Islamic extremists who target Western interests with murder in their hearts.

[Cooley Hurd]

27. "Our mere existence is meddlesome to those Islamic extremists..."

Really? Then why didn't they start attacking us in the 1940's? They were there, we were here, yet they didn't start attacking us until AFTER we started screwing around with their politics (think the CIA's installation of the Shah of Iran in the 50's to the invasion of Iraq last March).

They only feel "murder in their hearts" for us because we've been screwing around with their right to self-governance for the last 50 years. Do you think the French resistance were a bunch of murderous thugs for attacking the occupying Germans?

Sorry, man. As much as you want to believe Shrub on this, they do not hate us "for our freedoms." They hate us because we've been denying them the right of sovereignty for 50 years...

[Muddleoftheroad]

29. They hate much about America, not just politics

They hate our culture, our tolerance of religious diversity, our tolerance of pornography, the rights women enjoy, etc. More than that, they hate that America exports such attitudes around the globe.

THAT they fear more than political meddling.

[Cooley Hurd]

32. So you DO agree with Shrub...

...that "they hate us for our freedoms." I would be willing to bet that, if you were to ask the average muslim - even a Shiite muslim - what they hate about a country and its people 6000 miles away from them, I highly doubt it would have anything to do with our lifestyle. They don't want us to export our lifestyle to them via their own US-installed governments...

On edit: If they really do hate us for "our tolerance of religious diversity, our tolerance of pornography, the rights women enjoy, etc," then they would REALLY love Shrub because, through his appointment of John Ashcroft, he attempted to roll back all of what you listed (since Ashcroft tolerates no religion except his own, had a statues' breasts covered because he felt it was 'indecent' and believes all women should be little "Stepford Wives" like Laura Bush). Why do they hate Shrub so much? He's a fundie just like them... :)

[letthewindblow]

34. Hahahahaha....

Thanks for the laugh!

[number6]

68. you gonna vote for Bush ?

..

[abcdan]

37. re: message

The wrongs America may have purported on the Middle East do not justify the murdering of 3,000 innocent people.

Al Qaida has one agenda—kill all Americans. Nothing America can do will change that.

[Cooley Hurd]

39. How many innocents were killed in...

...Iran, by our installation of the Shah who, BTW, made Saddam look like a cub scout when it came to human rights abuses, or Iraq, when we dropped depleted uranium ordinance on Baghdad and killed thousands thru radiation poisoning and cancer. The number of innocents killed, from those two actions alone, greatly exceed 3,000. The wrongs of the Ayatola Khomeini and Saddam Hussein do not justify the killing of thousands of innocent people in their respective countries...

And why do you think Al Qaeda wants to kill Americans? I'll give you a hint... it as ZERO to do with "our freedoms..." :eyes:

[Aconymous]

44. OR

It might have something to do with the Qoran which states that all infedels must be killed. In case you didn't know it, an infedel is someone who doesn't follow muslim teachings. Osama went on American television and stated that children were legitimate targets, that they were no different than the military.

The Taliban would still be in power today if they had turned over Osama for trial, as the Sudan did on 3 different occasions while Mr. Clinton was in office. Saddam would still be killing his own and jailing 5 year-olds for their political differences as well as letting his son rape 12 year old little girls. All he had to do was comply with the UN about his WMD. If he didn't have any, then all he had to do was document where all the WMD's were.

By the way, those family members in that picture, I wonder what the expressions on their faces were when Saddam people came and tore out the men's tongues or had the man of the house chipped or bathed in acid.

[Cooley Hurd]

50. OMG! It's Sandy Rios! Hi Sandy!

Welcome to DU!:hi:

whoops! you're been banned from DU!

[number6]

66. wasn't that cheney the dick

:hi: dick

[Cheswick2.0]

21. well how could they possibly

ever hope to build anything while we are raping their environment and blowing their people up?

[Must_B_Free]

13. pretty building

have to admit. don't know about the name, but if Bush truth comes out it could take on a positive meaning.

[G_j]

15. I'd rather see the world's most beautiful garden

instead of an attempt to build the world's tallest building.

[letthewindblow]

35. Me too!

[Cooley Hurd]

16. I've come to dislike the word "freedom"

Ever since the jingoistic repugs hijacked the word and used it to decribe everything from French Fries to the reason why "they hate us," I've cringed whenever I hear that word.

I especially HATE the fact that they're extending their jingoism to the site of the deaths of 3000 Americans. Shameless...

"9/11 Memorial Tower" is much more appropriate...

[laura888]

43. agreed!!!

I also am getting sick of the word "freedom." Its lost its meaning as much as "terrorism" has.

[Aconymous]

46. So

what would you use in the place of that hated word? Socialism?

[nothingshocksmeanymore]

47. I think she was commenting on the obvious

Which is that the word FREEDOM is crammed down our throats while George Bush has done more to curb our freedoms than just about any president before him.

[laura888]

48. ummm....actually, socialism would GIVE more freedom in many ways

-freedom from worry when going to the hospital without insurance
- freedom from worry about whether I'll be supported in my old age
- freedom from hunger


also, there are many socialist countries today that are free from the fear that americans have today.

so who's really free?

[G_j]

49. I would use

bye... :hi:

[incapsulated]

18. I'm a native NY'er, still live here

I like it good enough. I want the skyline arch back, there needs to be a tall building there. I can't tell you how depressing it is to have the skyline radically cut off like that, it is a constant reminder of the attack.

I don't see the "tallness" issue as a "taunt". It's there because of one, the skyline, and two, a statement. I would feel pretty disgusted if we didn't build a tall building because we were afriad of another attack. That's not how I or most NYers feel. There are plenty of other tall buildings that could be attacked in the city if someone wanted to, it would be silly to stop building them because it would be "tempting".

This will also be a building that incorperates a lot of new enviromentally friendly features, like harnessing wind power, and I like that a lot.

[G_j]

23. NYers are diverse, and have diverse perceptions

and opinions. I truly love NY. I know there are many different views on this.
Myself, I always found that Central Park spoke more to me about the wisdom and resiliance of the NY spirit than one more tall building. Of course NY is the juxtaposition of both. Whatever a majority of NYers want is fine with me. Somehow I have a hard time believing the name "Freedom Tower" would be the popular choice, but I don't know the process by which this was decided.

[incapsulated]

28. You would be surprised

At the sheer amount of people that wanted the towers built back exactly the way they were before!

Most people, based on talking to them and every poll, want a tall building there. As for the process, the first designs were met with such outcry that they had to go back to the drawing board. They had these ugly, generic office building complexes at first. People wanted something very special, tall and inspiring and the first stuff was anything but.

There is no way to please everybody on something like this. But this building generally fits the priorities the majority of people had, which given the emotion of the situation, is the best you could do.

edit: The name is stupid, and nobody had a say except the politicians.

[G_j]

30. if it's really what the majority of

New Yorkers want, fine. I hope there was some form of referendum and the monied interests didn't have a disproportionate say in the decision.

[incapsulated]

31. It was complicated

Because the Port Authority owns the site. It was very political. On the other hand, the hearings about it didn't have many people attending at all. Mostly families of the dead, who's big concern was about the memorial and the footprints being preserved.

As for the building, I think a lot of people just want to get on with it, and will find it acceptable enough.

[G_j]

33. I wish they would at least pick a neutral name

everytime I hear it, I'll think of Orwell's 1984.

9-11 Memorial Tower, as someone suggested above, would be much more respectful to the victims.

[incapsulated]

36. I think

They didn't want that sort of a name. They wanted something that was "inspiring" rather than something that reminded everyone of the dead. Instead they came up with the most uninspiring, republican catch-word name anyone could think of. Thank Pataki for that.

I would prefer something like the New York City Tower or the Spire or pretty much anything that related to either City pride or the building itself (ie; twin towers).

[ldf]

40. that site will always be the WTC

so maybe the "New World Trade Center".

the people of new york will never call it the freedom tower.

[mot78]

53. That's not true

most people who attended the hearings other than the family activists were people who wanted the restore the skyline. However, I don't think the majority of New Yorkers would work that high despite wanting to build tall, so the structure being built is more like a CN Tower or a Space Needle than a full skyscraper.
The hearings with few people attending were ones only relating to the memorial.

[Cheswick2.0]

22. I don't think they could have picked a more nauseating name

I am so sick of all this rightwing dumbed down jingoistic crap. Do you think they'll serve Freedom fries and freedom toast there?
Gag me.

I was hoping they would build nothing but perhaps a peace center dedicated to understanding the diversity of world cultures. I guess that would be too much to ask in this angry white guy backlash of an un PC, black and white thinking, anti intellectual culture we are living in.

[G_j]

26. perhaps they could make it

the Hub of information collecting on American citizens, mount a big eye on top. Freedom Tower, Big Brother is watching.

[maxrandb]

42. Think your nauseated now?

The article says they will lay cornerstone next year. You don't think that the cornerstone laying would just happen to coincide with *'s annointing ceremony at the Repuke convention do you? I am so sick of the shamelessness of this gang.

They have hijacked America, and we had better get ready. They won't give it back until we wrench it from their grasp.

[TankLV]

57. That is why it is doubly important to make sure bunkerboy is not around

for the dedication ceremonies.

I do not want him or his "party" anywhere near that site.

[kalian]

38. It'll be "Tower One" or....

the Tower of Sauron...once the US turns into Mordor... :eyes:

[WhoCountsTheVotes]

41. I just wished they rebuilt them the way they were

I know I'm in the minority here, but that's what I always hoped would happen.

[Cleita]

51. Oh yes.

I am not a lover of skyscrapers to begin with because of the stress they put on municipalities for parking, electricity, water, sewer and waste management, which add to the pollution of the environment, but to put a commercial edifice over a graveyard to me is like floating a gambling casino ship over the Arizona in Pearl Harbor. Freedom Tower is especially offensive since 911 was the day that the erosion our freedom began. There should be a memorial park built there instead. IMHO

[mot78]

54. That's the last thing that should happen

A 16-acre memorial would not help Lower Manhattan recover economically, and would leave a big, morbid void in the middle of a city relating to life. Even most relatives of the victims have stated that. Rebuilding is part of human history.

Here are some historic US disasters, unless you think that only those in the World Trade Center died en masse:

Earthquake, San Francisco, 1908: 500 dead
Fire, Peshtigo, Wis, 1871: over 1,200 dead
Flood, Johnstown, Pa, 1889: over 2,200 dead
Hurricane, Galveston Island, TX, 1900: over 6,000 dead.

In each case, they were rebuilt.

Hiroshima and Nagasaki were destroyed by atomic bombs which killed 120,000 civilians in a few seconds....thousands of whom were incinerated in the intense heat and radiation from the mushroom cloud. These cities were rebuilt with appropriate memorials to the victims.

[Cleita]

56. I still hate high rises. They are an abomination to the

environment. This will be the highest building in the world so they say. I say it's another big target sticking up there in the air. If the hijackers had destroyed the whole city of NY on that day like Nagasaki or Hiroshima, I could see rebuilding most of it. The other disasters you mention are natural ones, not man made horrors.

What I think doesn't matter anyway, because the tower will be built nevertheless.

[laura888]

70. I like your signature animation graphics! n/t

n/t

[TankLV]

55. Nope!

I think it's the best idea - to do otherwise (not build anything) gives the terrorists a "win" - to build it back bigger and better is a win to those resisting terrorism.

Besides, a memorial is still included in the design for the site, not just this footprint of the new structure.

I applaud the decision.

I would have preferred to have a higher-"occupied" floors building instead of stopping the "occupied" floors at 70.

But it is quite stunning.

[wanderingbear]

58. The New Tower of Babalon..

To replace the old one..

[DemExpat]

59. That was exactly my thought, but you beat me to it....

:hi:
DemEx

[Deja Q]

60. What an insult... "Patriot Day" being Sept 11 on calendars and now this.

FREEDOM MY ASS.

"Freedom tower", even in name, is the biggest insult and irony ever conceived. It's disgusting and it's depraved.

Bushco are a pack of ravenous fascist wolves. Tommy "I need to lick my bush" Franks has even said one more terror attack and the Constitution is gone. (So why hasn't Bush engineered another attack, or is the wretched little vermin* waiting until closer to election time?!)

Bush allowed 9/11 to happen, he knew at least some of the plot. ANy other president, knowing about a big hijack attempt, would have stopped the fuckers. BUSH ALLOWED IT TO HAPPEN, NOT GIVING A FUCK ABOUT THEM. I mean, it's only a hijacking, right? A few hours of terror only, what the fuck was the dopehead* thinking?!?!?!

Why do our public look at the dipshit* and think he's so great? He's a fucking criminal. He's no saint. God did not send him. Satan did.

Sorry for my liberal use of swearing. I've had it with the anti-christian evil despots in power and when it comes to them, I refuse to be civil. They don't deserve civility. x(

[wanderingbear]

61. I plan to Boycott Partiot day..

and Celiberate Green day on 9/11

[Deja Q]

64. Welcome to DU!!

:party:

[Rex]

62. Well...they have the Statue of Liberty

so why not the Freedom Tower? I will start worrying when they decide to name em things like; "Reebok Tower", "Golden Arches McBridge", "Statue of Coca-Cola" etc...

So can I get some freedom fries in the freedom tower?

[wanderingbear]

67. What do you meen?The name will be franchized.

and sold all over the world..

[number6]

71. how bout a free country and free press

freedom fries in the freedom tower, this gets to be Orwellian
I think peoples objection to this naming everything "freedom"
and this silly "they hate our freedoms" and every bodies little
flag pins, are all substitutes for the real thing..

[wanderingbear]

73. Hittler Promised the German people Freedom....

and the distruction of their enemies..and look what happened..

[ironflange]

63. That name. . .

Freedom Tower. It's a nightmare, a nightmare. With a name like that, there ought to be bulls-eyes painted on the sides.

[wanderingbear]

69. You read my mind..

Thats what I was thinking..LOL..

[number6]

72. I'd prefer a more traditional Art-Deco kinda Bldg.

like Empire State or Crysler Building.