Judge: I saw police commit felonies , Miami

[G_j]

www.miami.com/mld/miamiherald/7538538.htm

Judge: I saw police commit felonies

A judge who said he witnessed some of the anti-free trade protests complains in open court about how police handled the demonstrations.
By AMY DRISCOLL
[e-mail]

A judge presiding over the cases of free trade protesters said in court that he saw ''no less than 20 felonies committed by police officers'' during the November demonstrations, adding to a chorus of complaints about police conduct.

Judge Richard Margolius, 60, made the remarks in open court last week, saying he was taken aback by what he witnessed while attending the protests.

''Pretty disgraceful what I saw with my own eyes. And I have always supported the police during my entire career,'' he said, according to a court transcript. ``This was a real eye-opener. A disgrace for the community.''

In the transcript, he also said he may have to remove himself from any additional cases involving arrests made during the Free Trade Area of the Americas summit.

''I probably would have been arrested myself if it had not been for a police officer who recognized me,'' said the judge, who wears his hair in a graying ponytail.

...more..
============================================
http://www.commondreams.org/headlines03/1219-08.htm

Reuters
FTAA Protests: Amnesty Says Miami Police May Have Broken UN Laws
=============================================

[wanderingbear]

1. Do you really think that the police are there to protect you??

Their not.. Their there to control the population.

[sid dicious]

3. GTA Vice City is my favorite game cause of stuff like this!

Well, not really because of that, but it's fun. :)

[Myra]

10. "Do you really think that the police are there to protect you??" No.

Not since I started attending "peaceful" protests and saw their fascist antics.

[nadinbrzezinski]

2. Judge Margulis

has thrown a small stone into the pond, just watch...

This is a man respected by the community...

[Myra]

12. I hope so, but didn't he just effectively remove himself from the case?

By making the comments in open court?
On the other hand, maybe it's better strategy to bring visibility to
the felonious fraternal order of police than recusing himself in
private.

[Tandalayo_Scheisskopf]

4. I do so wish...

That this would get wider play in the media.

Then again, I wish I was at leas 6ft tall, darkly handsome, independently wealthy and well-hung. That won't be happening either.

[Myra]

13. I wish you were too Tandalayo_Scheisskopf

Purely for selfish reasons though.

:evilgrin:

[sasquatch]

5. Who said that every cop is a criminal was dead on right

These guys belong in prison with all of the other fascist, nazi bastard cops. Charge them in a Nuremberg like trial and use the death penalty like they did then as well. Send a message to all cops that wan't to shit on civil liberties.

[G_j]

7. that's a bit too broad a statement for my taste

You have to figure that the master plan that came down from the top was criminal. You can say that by following orders they committed criminal acts of course. Lets just say the bigger criminals were watching from a safe distance. And Congress supplied the money for the "Miami Model"

[sasquatch]

11. Yeah but at Nuremburg we said that the excuse of...

"Just following orders" will no longer cut it. Should the BCF thugs that gave the orders be punished? You bet your ass they should be:)

[G_j]

33. agreed

But you seemed to focus foremost on the cops and not on those who used them. And I will say also that the higher ups: Timoney and those who give him his marching orders, gave the cops the green light to freely vent their violent and sadistic tendencies upon the demonstrators. So no, those police who did act in an illegal way absolutely should have known better and following orders is NO excuse at all. It is also my concern that those calling the shots will evade justice. Unfortunately, if the past is any indicator there will be no justice on any level.
An ACLU lawyer told me that it has become standard procedure for police departments to budget money for lawsuits ahead of time, because they PLAN on violating the civil rights of protesters. As a rule they pay the fines, but no one ever loses their job or is held personally responsible for their actions.
We live in a police state.

[Myra]

14. "And Congress supplied the money for the "Miami Model" - Yes!

An important point.
It was funded from the $87mil congress obligingly voted to "rebuild Iraq." I guess they meant, "make the US more like Iraq."

Thanks congress.

Thanks G_j (um, a more sincere "thanks" in this case).

[htuttle]

8. It was....

...Mick Jagger and Keith Richards who said that.

...
Just as every cop is a criminal,
And all the sinners saints,
...
-- Sympathy for the Devil, Rolling Stones

Pointlessly off-topic, but just trying to make that large bulk of trivia between my ears more useful...carry on

[sasquatch]

9. I thought it was Freud that said it before the Stones did though?

:shrug:

[Character Assassin]

20. Whoever said that person was dead on right is dead on wrong

You know, mouthing tired slogans and lyrics from songs is no substitute for actually thinking.

Send a message to all cops that wan't to shit on civil liberties.

Let me be the first cop and libertarian to let you know you don't know what you're talking about. I catch the guys who take the ultimate shit on your civil liberties: the guys who take your life.

You're welcome.

[sasquatch]

22. I'm sorry I said that the wrong way

It's just that I've been near Cincinnati where the local AM station has been trying to justify the homicide of a blackman by CPD recently. This came up as well and it just reminds of Nazi Germany. I forget that a majofity of police officers are good people like fireman, factory workers and school teachers. They just try to help people out and get by like everyone else.:)

[BiggJawn]

36. What are you gonna do, CA, when the order comes to shoot "Rioters"?

Since you just "outed" yourself, please tell us. I know it's easy to sit here at a distance and claim "All cops are Fascist tools" but hey, here we have an opportunity to listen to the mind of one who may be ordered to round the rest of us up for the camps.

I appreciate what the "Thin Blue Line" does for us day-to-day, but I am extremely concerned with what will happen when the "powers that be" no longer care about the illusion of democracy anymore. A lot has been written on the military's role if Martial Law ever becomes a reality, but I say the main job of crowd control/mass murder will fall on the police, by virtue of their being trained to kill people who look like them.

What say you?

[Character Assassin]

38. I've 'outed' myself? I've never hidden facts of my employment history

What are you gonna do, CA, when the order comes to shoot "Rioters?

From a police department? Not likely.

Since you just "outed" yourself, please tell us. I know it's easy to sit here at a distance and claim "All cops are Fascist tools" but hey, here we have an opportunity to listen to the mind of one who may be ordered to round the rest of us up for the camps.

Oh, Christ. Come on. I am a homicide detective, not on a riot squad, and there are almost universally too few cops already doing too many jobs for that to happen. Something like that would take (a) a willing populace (which we don't have, to my experience) and (b) the military. The police could never do it; there are simply not nearly enough of them, and it's not our job.

I appreciate what the "Thin Blue Line" does for us day-to-day, but I am extremely concerned with what will happen when the "powers that be" no longer care about the illusion of democracy anymore.

If that day comes, it will be accomplished with troops, not troopers.

A lot has been written on the military's role if Martial Law ever becomes a reality, but I say the main job of crowd control/mass murder will fall on the police, by virtue of their being trained to kill people who look like them.

I was never trained to and never train for killing people who look like me.

What say you?

I say that this is mostly overreaction based on comparisons to historical occurences that are too dissimilar to the circumstances we now find ourselves in.

[BiggJawn]

41. OK, thanks! I appreciate the feedback.

BTW, while you never "hid" your employment, this was the first I knew of you being a cop. Sorry if I sounded confrontational.

OK, not enough cops to do the job. Maybe a role as advisors?

And I don't know about these occurence being TOO dissimilar. I do hope that you're right and I'm wrong.

Again, thanks for the feedback!

[ElsewheresDaughter]

44. CA "thin blue line"????...i have always known it as "the blue wall"

[Character Assassin]

45. Actually, I don't know any cop who uses that term.

[chookie]

37. Actions of cops vs designed Operations

I didn't know you were in law enforcement -- cool!

I just wanted to tell a personal story that cuts against the "fascist cop" stereotype raised here.

At a protest against Bush -- at which we were quite close to His Chimperial Highness, a small group of us was approached by a couple of hostile freepers, who were calling us traitors and demanding we leave the sidewalk. The Alpha freeper approached a Pittsburgh cop, and told him to arrest us, and the cop yelled right back at him "Get the hell out of here!" -- sending freeper running away with slightly soiled panties and wienie between his legs. It was great! I love that cop! This, to me, was a spontaneous reaction of a well-trained police officer, who handled the situation beautifully right off the cuff and eliminate the public disturbance in an instant.

On the other hand, some months after this, there was a highly publicized anti-war protest, attended by a few hundred people, which was to culminate in a 15 minute walk down a major street on a Sunday afternoon. The police wanted the protestors on the sidewalk, and some insisted on marching in the street. The police then got really heavy handed -- pepper spraying people in the face, clubbing them, arresting dozens of people. The stories and the photos of what happened that afternoon were disturbing. I guess if I was calling the shots that day, I would have tolerated a 15 minute street protest on a Sunday afternoon, which would only be a minor inconvenience to motorists, and only pressured them if they continued after 15 minutes or were aggressively disruptive. It seemed as though there was a orchestrated Plan in force to shut this protest down, as the actions of the police were quite disproportionate to the level of public disturbance.

The dozens of people who were arrested had the misfortune of appearing before a right wing judge. Ordinarily, minor incidents as this are dismissed, but he insisted on throwing the whole weight of the law at them, wanting to inconvenience them and punish them as much as he could. He was interviewed afterwards as saying that he considered himself a red-white-and-blue-American who thought these people were acting against their country and should be punished.

In all, the incident looked like someone wanted to send a message to people who oppose Bush's policies that they were going to get their asses kicked if they dared.

What I am asking you, dear officer, is for what you think goes on from your end of things. How are decisions made to deal with protestors? How do officers feel about taking part in countering a protest?

[Character Assassin]

39. No problem

I didn't know you were in law enforcement -- cool!

I was in it some time ago, quit for the business world for a while, and have just recently returned. Gave up lots of money, but if you don't enjoy your job, life is miserable.

I just wanted to tell a personal story that cuts against the "fascist cop" stereotype raised here.

At a protest against Bush -- at which we were quite close to His Chimperial Highness, a small group of us was approached by a couple of hostile freepers, who were calling us traitors and demanding we leave the sidewalk. The Alpha freeper approached a Pittsburgh cop, and told him to arrest us, and the cop yelled right back at him "Get the hell out of here!" -- sending freeper running away with slightly soiled panties and wienie between his legs. It was great! I love that cop! This, to me, was a spontaneous reaction of a well-trained police officer, who handled the situation beautifully right off the cuff and eliminate the public disturbance in an instant.

What he was doing was removing the instigator of potential escalation of tension (and possibly violence). There is usually enough confusion at protests, depending on the size, without some fuck (of any stripe) trying to tell an LEO what he/she 'should' being doing. Rather like walking in on two people you know are having sex and asking what their favorite TV show is.

On the other hand, some months after this, there was a highly publicized anti-war protest, attended by a few hundred people, which was to culminate in a 15 minute walk down a major street on a Sunday afternoon. The police wanted the protestors on the sidewalk, and some insisted on marching in the street. The police then got really heavy handed -- pepper spraying people in the face, clubbing them, arresting dozens of people. The stories and the photos of what happened that afternoon were disturbing. I guess if I was calling the shots that day, I would have tolerated a 15 minute street protest on a Sunday afternoon, which would only be a minor inconvenience to motorists, and only pressured them if they continued after 15 minutes or were aggressively disruptive. It seemed as though there was a orchestrated Plan in force to shut this protest down, as the actions of the police were quite disproportionate to the level of public disturbance.

The dozens of people who were arrested had the misfortune of appearing before a right wing judge. Ordinarily, minor incidents as this are dismissed, but he insisted on throwing the whole weight of the law at them, wanting to inconvenience them and punish them as much as he could. He was interviewed afterwards as saying that he considered himself a red-white-and-blue-American who thought these people were acting against their country and should be punished.

Sounds like a judge who needs to keep his mouth shut in public or risk possible misconduct inquiries.

In all, the incident looked like someone wanted to send a message to people who oppose Bush's policies that they were going to get their asses kicked if they dared.

I have no way of knowing, as politics and police are different in every town.

What I am asking you, dear officer, is for what you think goes on from your end of things. How are decisions made to deal with protestors? How do officers feel about taking part in countering a protest?

I'm not on a riot squad, and wouldn't want to be, so it's an area I'm not intimately familiar with, but I promise you there is a gameplan and rules set down before any engagement.

My city doesn't have protests (no universities here, and the closest ones are neighboring, but are really spread out campuses) so it's not a topic that comes up in 'shop talk' very often.

I don't know how they feel in particular, but it's a job I wouldn't want. Although I am physically very large, they hired my for my head for this job, not for my ability to bust heads, and I prefer to keep it that way if at all possible.

Glad to know that you don't by into the tired, 60's canard that all cops are just cogs in 'the man's' machine.

[G_j]

40. almost the same scenario played out

in our town. We have a large activist community here. As an organizer inlvolved in many of the peace rallies leading up to the war, I can say that we had a respectful relationship with our local police force. We worked quite well with them and never had any problems. On the day the war began there was a large gathering of people, there was no march planned but people spontaneously began a march. Within a matter of minutes patrol cars were everywhere. People were thrown to the pavement some of them injured. Over twenty people were arrested. The police were there with hundreds of plastic handcuffs and a paddy wagon it seemed was already in place. Some of the arrested said they heard police say that that had a quota for thirty arrests. Altogether in the next week and a half there were over forty arrests. So when you say:

"so it's an area I'm not intimately familiar with, but I promise you there is a gameplan"

I know it was true in our city. Once the war began the policy seemed to take a drastic change. Where we were once treated as part of the community to be worked with, we were assaulted and treated as an enemy. I found it very disturbing. This was not the cops on the street acting on their own.
This why we DO have a great deal to fear as a community as to how our police force is used. It has also come out recently that the FBI has contacted local police departments about keeping tabs on peace activists.

As I consider the cops on the street to be blue collar workers, I think we should have more in common than not. I am afraid that some on high would prefer us to see each other as enemies. And given that corporations are behind the scenes of power in this country, I don't think most police want to be rent-a-cops for corporate interests such as the case in Miami.

& thanks for sharing your thoughts CA
:-)

[rumguy]

6. wow, that is incredible!

Good, for that judge. People like him need to speak up to stop the march towards jack-booted thugish fascism....thank you Bush for your "trickle down" fascism!

[Eric J in MN]

15. ACLU members: please call or email the ACLU and them to spend

ACLU members: please call or email the ACLU, state that you're a member, and then ask them to spend lots of resources on the November 2003 Miami FTTA police brutality cases.

[G_j]

34. ***Fax and More Info. ***

Fax Florida State Attorney re: Miami FTAA Civil Rights Violations

FREE FAX: http://www.citizen.org/fax/background.cfm?ID=248&source=29

THE FIGHT IS JUST BEGINNING TO SAVE OUR CIVIL LIBERTIES!

We must demand that the illegal charges leveled against protesters be dropped and that an independent investigation be conducted into the police brutality and contsitutional and human rights violations that took place in Miami. Local activists and the legal team need our solidarity to pressure Florida State Attorney Katherine Fernandez Rundle to drop all charges against FTAA protesters.

FREE FAX: SEND Florida State Attorney Katherine Fernandez Rundle a fax demanding that ALL CHARGES BE DROPPED AND AN INDPENDENT INVESTIGATION CONDUCTED!
http://www.citizen.org/fax/background.cfm?ID=248&source=29
--------------------
The abuses in Miami have prompted strong response from Amnesty International and the ACLU, the Steelworkers and AFL, the Sierra Club, and a broad coalition of labor, antiwar, direct action, global justice, civil liberties and community groups. It has been rumored that Bill Moyers is seekng video footage.
==================*=====================
****Personal Voices: Hope and Fear in Miami (a must read!)
David Solnit, AlterNet

A veteran activist finds much to fear, but also bits of hope, after being jailed in Miami.
http://www.alternet.org/story.html?StoryID=17342
------------------
St. Petersburg Times: Miami Crowd Control Would Do Tyrant Proud

http://www.commondreams.org/views03/1130-07.htm

Miami police Chief John Timoney must be mighty proud of the social order he maintained during the Free Trade Area of the Americas summit a couple of weeks ago in Miami - sort of the way Saddam Hussein was proud of quieting dissension in his country.
--------------------
Arresting The Future
Tom Hayden, AlterNet
Even as FTAA protestors and trade ministers poured out of town in droves, the city's Robo-Cops continued to demonstrate the 'Miami model' of suppression -- with pepper spray, rubber bullets and drawn weapons.
http://www.alternet.org/story.html?StoryID=17246
--------------------
Information Control:
The 'Miami Model' used during the anti-FTAA protests represents a new police strategy whose aim is to control not just the streets, but also the story told by the media.
http://www.alternet.org/story.html?StoryID=17293
------------------
Starhawk's Miami Journals,
www.starhawk.org/activism/activism-writings/miami_journals.html
------------------
This is a link to all of the Miami Herald coverage..
 http://www.miami.com/mld/miamiherald/news/special_packages/ftaa/
-----------------
photos of 'projectiles' :-(
http://www.hulla-balloo.com/ftaapics/projectiles
===================*=====================

[Myra]

16. And UN laws likely broken

Ya think???

http://www.reuters.com/newsArticle.jhtml?type=topNews&storyID=4018180&fromEmail=true

"Amnesty Says Miami Police May Have Broken UN Laws
Thu December 18, 2003 04:30 PM ET

MIAMI (Reuters) - Police in Miami may have violated various international laws and covenants on civil rights and use of force when they crushed protests against a free trade meeting last month, rights group Amnesty International said.
In a letter to Florida Gov. Jeb Bush, dated Dec. 16 and made public on Thursday, the human rights watchdog repeated a call for an independent inquiry into police actions that led to more than 200 arrests and dozens of injuries."

[Judi Lynn]

24. Absolutely pathetic.

From the article, and thank goodness for Reuters:

(snip) Phalanxes of riot police, backed by helicopters and armored cars, chased protesters through the city center after the main opposition rally on Nov. 20 by firing volleys of rubber bullets, pepper spray and tear gas.

While a few protesters threw rocks, the great majority of the 15,000 unionists, environmentalists, retirees, small farmers, anarchists and civil rights activists who took part in the Nov. 20 march against the FTAA were peaceful.

Amnesty said many were shot with rubber bullets while running away from police. Volunteer medics appear to have been targeted while helping the injured. (snip)

~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~

Yes, we can leave it to the Miami Herald, servant of the right-wing extremists in the Miami Mafia, since the Cuban "exile" god-father, Jorge Mas Canosa unleashed his full-scale attack on them, to spin and color the news until it bears little resemblance to the truth.

They would be remiss if they DIDN'T point out his terrifying pony-tail, wouldn't they?

[Myra]

31. "thank goodness for Reuters" Just thought it beared repeating.

thank goodness for Reuters...

[durutti]

17. Grrr....

"'I probably would have been arrested myself if it had not been for a police officer who recognized me,' said the judge, who wears his hair in a graying ponytail."

And this is relevant how?

[0rganism]

21. It demonstrates to the reader that the judge is a dirty filthy hippy

who would have been righteously supressed by the benevolent police, had they not recognized him as one of the judicial elite.

[durutti]

25. Damn liberal media...

n/t

[wanderingbear]

27. Thats funny

so am I..LOL

[wanderingbear]

28. Thats funny

so am I..LOL

[Eric J in MN]

18. The judge said he can't identify the police who commited felonies

the judge said he can't identify the police who commited felonies because their faces were hidden under riot gear.

Ideally, police would be forbidden to dress in riot gear to monitor people peacefully assembling.

It's necessary for accountability for a policeman's face and badge to be visible.

[Myra]

19. That's always the case at peaceful protests, can't ID the police...

They're just armies of robo-cops in riot gear.
Often in riot gear on horseback. And they damn well know it.

(Tho' I think I could finger the horse, in a line up...)
:evilgrin:

[G_j]

35. case in point

photos:






more:
http://www.hulla-balloo.com/ftaapics/cops/

[cryofan]

23. Did anyone catch the "judge wears a ponytail" propaganda?

They are trying to paint him as a hippie.....

[durutti]

26. See post #17.

n/t

[diamondsoul]

30. I did and had the same thought.

Sad is sad no matter what "the enemy" looks like, ya dumb fecks!

[WEagle]

42. must be one of them "librul" judges

I thought it intersting though that he said he had always supported the police in the past.

[NoBorders]

47. "...who wears his greying hair closely cropped."

You would never see that, would you.

[diamondsoul]

29. Kickin this one. n/t

[sasquatch]

32. Me too

[G_j]

43. Streaming Vid: DC hearings on police response to demonstrations

The DC City Council held two days of hearings last week on the conduct of police in response to demonstrations, and the whole proceedings can be viewed in streaming video at:

http://octt.dc.gov/services/on_demand_video/on_demand_december_2003_week_3.shtm

"PUBLIC OVERSIGHT HEARING, COMMITTEE ON THE JUDICIARY, Kathy Patterson, Chairperson"

Dec. 17th & 18th.

[tom_paine]

46. This Judge should brace for reprisals.

The Busheviks are mean as snakes, and they have nbo compunctions about punishing their foes, all the way up to Wellstoning.

[Cocoa]

48. the reporter answered my email about the pony tail

I emailed her saying I'd never read a description of a judge's hair style in a news story before, asked her what her reasoning was for including that odd bit of info. :-)

Her answer just came in:

Thanks for writing. This was my reasoning: I have covered criminal and civil courts in Dade, Broward and Palm Beach counties over a period of 10 years. And I've covered the Florida Supreme Court at times. I have never seen a judge with a ponytail (many lawyers, yes, but no judges.) I thought it was relevant because it shows that he's not the typical judge. That's all. No other subtext.
I hope that helps.

[G_j]

49. good going

at least you may have prompted the reporter to reflect on her choice of words. She may not have consciously used the pony tail to 'discredit' the judge. However subtle jabs like this become ingrained in the media to the point of being second nature. She said she was merely pointing out that the judge was 'different'. Exactly! ....and why was this important to the story?

Thanks for writing, it reminded this reporter that people DO pay attention.