How much class conciousness and classism is there in the USA today?

[_Jumper_]

This is an interesting subject. I was wondering how much of an issue it is today and how we can use this to our advantage.

[wuushew]

1. not very much

The myth of upward social mobility is the only thing stopping a mass release of anger in this country. How else do you explain the mass support for repeal of the estate tax? Because people think that they or their children will be millionares too someday. Purely democratic voting would allow those who would not pay(98%) to carry the vote

[Snow]

7. This is why we have lotteries

and the legal system that allows you to strike it rich suing McDonalds - not that I'm against torts in their place, but it is seen often as a get rich quick scheme.

Between that and the gambling, people believe they, too, can achieve unlimited wealth, so the revolution doesn't happen. Clever scheme, eh.

[wuushew]

8. Yes math education is also much behind the rest of the world

all gambling has a negative return.

[gmoney]

2. "Let them eat cake" -RNC's current motto

Most rich people don't have any idea how much most folks are struggling, or how many seemingly "middle class" people are on the brink of major financial hardship...

Oh, better not mention it though. That's "class warfare"

[mikehiggins]

3. There is a good deal but it really isn't recognised as such.

Generally, people are rated by their income and status but there is still a good deal of down-looking on others, such as poor people in brick houses looking down on trailer trash, etc.

College educated looking down on high school grads.

So on and so forth.

We are a long way away from a straight meritocracy.

[auburnblu]

5. Trailer Trash?

The fact that you refer to anyone as trailer trash, well that sure seems to put you in the category of those doing the looking down on someone.

[mourningdove92]

4. The 60 Minutes Piece on John Edwards called his

campaign "class warfare" because he gears everything to the middle class and the poor and is constantly comparing his humble upbringing to Shrubs being born with a silver foot in his mouth (Ann Richards, we miss you).
We will see how this flys with the American public.

[AP]

14. which was a great example of how the media works hard to prevent people

to establish class identities that are equivalent to their actual class status.

I've told this story here before: a couple weeks ago I heard a woman whom I know is in about 30K in credit card debt and has remortgaged her home so many times, there's no way the mortgage is for a realistic valuation, so she might be in as much as 100K in debt, and has young children, and there's no way that she's going to be helped by Republicans. She said "I voted for Democrats until I started making money."

She isn't MAKING money. She's SPENDING money which he hasn't yet earned, and probably has no chance of ever earning, largely thanks to Republicans legislating profits for many of the large companies she's giving her money to, and legislating wealth for the rich people who got the tax breaks her economic class should have gotten.

[QC]

6. Everyone in America is middle-class,

therefore there is no class consciousness or class conflict. :eyes:

[Snow]

9. I think there's probably more hostility from the workng classes

towards the upper classes, and the dividing line is probably 4 years of college. I saw a flash of that on this thread when someone used the term "trailer trash" and immediately was called to task. Not to condone derogatory terms, but failing to acknowledge class differences is a way that they harm us. I have lived in a very hierarchical culture, Korea, still do to a fair degree, and what they have that we lack is a sense of responsibility towards each other. People respect individuals in other classes - well, first they are honest in admitting that there are class divisions - and having done so, they respect each other, acknowledge their roles, and expect each other to be supportive of that. One curious advantage Korea has had for thousands of years is the strong emphasis on education and the possibility of upward class movement simply through that....even the poorest farmer's son - and sometimes daughter - could work and study hard, pass the Confucian exams, and rise in the world, sometimes to the point where they were literally running the country. This didn't always function perfectly, but there was always that underlying sense of possibility - the ruling classes weren't strictly defined by geneology.

I think our problem is twofold - first, we pretend there is no class system, so we can do nothing about it. Second, our society is much more heterogenous than, say, Korea, so there are parts of our society who get marginalized. Third (I said twofold, didn't I? Oh, well), advancement, power, respect in our society is a function almost purely of wealth, often inherited. Education is only loosely correlated with wealth, and, sad to say, how you get the wealth is usually not questioned much - you can be someone like the bushes and still be respected for your wealth regardless of how you got it. And once you get out of the top class, the middle and even working classes define their position by wealth displays as well - what car do you drive.

So as to how we can use this to our advantage, I dunno - to some extent the bushes get into office etc because of their wealth - not just that it buys them power but that your average voter respects all that money. And your average voter tends not to respect education much at all. So trying to compete with bush on the basis of being more intelligent, better educated, etc will likely not work. I've always thought it's too bad we don't have a royal family to gossip about and fawn over. I think it'd save us a lot of foolishness.

[QC]

10. More hostility from bottom toward top?

I'm not sure about that. When I last checked who was gaming the system, it was people like Bush gaming it against the lower classes via things like eliminating the estate tax, gutting public education, etc. There is a class war in this country, and it is being fought by the likes of Bush and Cheney against the rest of us.

And objecting to a term of classist hate like "trailer trash" is hardly denying the reality of class. If anything, I would argue that the popularity of terms like "redneck" and "trailer trash" even at an allegedly liberal site like this one proves that there is considerable hostility toward the poor in this country and that it is perfectly acceptable, even among those who claim not to condon prejudice of any kind.

[Snow]

12. Good points

I wasn't being precise enough in my terms, I think. Here's what I meant to say - there's more anger from the bottom towards the top, whilst what the top feels towards everybody else is more like contempt. How does that work for you?

On objections to classist terms, I agree that using them demonstrates class hostility. I would also argue that use of the term "elitist" which I see here frequently as a term of opprobation, is a term of class hostility expressing that anger of the lower classes towards the upper, as well as being an attempt to deny class divisions that is harmful in the long run. One point that comes to me now is that the lower class anger is often aimed not at the rich, but at the highly educated, the intellectuals, the "elite" if you will. Worrisome. Reminiscent of the Cultural Revolution, Pol Pot, the French Revolution.

[BiggJawn]

13. I'm not picking up on any "bottom towards top" hostility.

Even the lowliest of the low thinks they have it better than somebody. Even an Ant can look down on a Nematode. it's that "Cargo Cult" thing again. Vote for ReTHUGlicans, listen to Rush, tell enough Hillary jokes, and some day you too will be rich beyond your dreams.

The only people I've ever met who would even think "Eat the Rich" are educated young people who rejected "The MAN'S System". and an occassional old left-over like me. Everyone else THINKS they're going to be rich "someday".

Most people like me and poorer buy lotto tickets out of deperation, and the State loves all us desperate folks. I'm a little better at math than most of my class, not much, but enough to know what a "sucker bet" is...

[JanMichael]

11. What was that funny poll result? Something like 19% of Usians think that..

...that they're in the top 2% of incomes?

Perhaps we're too ignorant to be aware of class divides? That's a good thing if you're in that top 2%...

[AP]

15. Dean exploits that misapprehension too.

He's trying to convnice the middle class that they're upper middle class and that, just like the superwealthy, they have to give back their tax breaks because all capable hands need to be on deck in order to pull this ship of state out of the economic turmoil it's in.