"Biggest Reserve Call-up Since World War II"

[SpiralHawk]

That is the message being broadcast this morning by one of our local TV stations, KRQE in Albuquerque, NM (CBS affliliate).

Apparently, our National Guard has just got the call to report big time, and many more of our young citizens will be shipped overseas in uniform come January, 2004 to participate in this war based on lies. Where are the WMD? What is Iraq's link to 9/11? Lies all.

The announcers on KRQE are saying -- over and over and over -- that the NM Guard has not been this active since World War II." Sigh. Time to shut the box off.

The news readers are giving a lot of details about the particular troops on TV -- but I have always felt that "loose lips do indeed sink ships" so I will not repeat them. Instead, a light a candle for our young men and women from "The Land of Enchantment."

May the BushCo enchantment be undone.
May truth emerge.
May justice be done.
May our young people all return home safe to their families and communities.
May peace prevail.





"We've had a great weekend here in the Land of the Enchanted."
- George W. Bush, Albuquerque, N.M., May 12, 2003
(New Mexico's state nickname is "Land of Enchantment.")

[Superfly]

1. You know...it's a huge shit sandwich and we're

all going to have to take a bite. To withdraw our forces right now would be a <moral> mistake greater than entering the war. I bet you dollar to donuts that most of the NM Guard is looking forward to relieving some of our beleagured troops over there right now.

I say to them, God Speed, and may you return safely to a welcoming nation.

[SpiralHawk]

2. The moral course of action, in my view

will begin when pResident* Bush acknowledges that this whole ugly war is based on lies that he and his administration told to the American public and the world.

You cannot just keep "pushing on into the Big Muddy" based on a pack of lies. Not one of our solidiers should sacrifice health or life for lies.

So -- start by telling the truth. That is fundamental. Then the next steps out of Iraq have a chance of becoming clear.





* AWOL while honor-bound by solemn oath to be serving with the Texas National Guard in the 1970s; defeated by a clear majority of patriotic and discerning American voters in the 2000 election; appointed to office by the "legal" system.

[Superfly]

3. And what will that do?

Sure, you can sit back and say "I told you so" if Bush acknowledges what you want, but there is still the small problem of a country destroyed by war that isn't going to go away after that.

Our only moral recourse right now is to assist Iraq in getting back on her feet as quickly as possible. And, if that involves sending in a million soldiers, then so be it. Let's get the fucking job done with and get the hell out of there.

[SpiralHawk]

14. Allow me to repeat

Our first moral course of action should be to acknowledge the truth.

Superfly wants to send a million more soldiers in on the basis of the same lie that got this started. Then after all the "problems are solved" maybe consider the truth.

That will not work. Action built upon falsehood smears the world with further confusion, and creates a corrupt foundation that will -- sooner or later -- fall.

In the moral arena, begin with the truth. Proceed with the truth.

[Superfly]

16. You see, the difference between us is

that I live in the real world.

You can take your "truth", roll it up in a big fattie, and smoke it, it's still not going to address the crisis that Iraq is facing if we do not grab our moral cojones and rebuild that nation, before pulling out.

And that means ensuring the democratic processes being emplaced are defended by every means possible.

Having Bush acknowledge his lies is a problem for the US, not the Iraqi people. They need to focus on getting a country back and our soldiers are there to make sure they do.

[SpiralHawk]

41. Several thousand years of "real" experience

has established a plain fact.

Lies lead to confusion, moral rot, and irrational anger; inevitably, they also lead to corruption and collapse. Deal with it. That is the real world.

I cannot help but believe the Iraqui people would rather have our truth, than a million more of our troops. There is no way to progress in Iraq (or elsewhere in the world) without proceeding on a foundation of fundamental honesty.

I yield not one millimeter of moral turf to anyone's encouragements that America should just send in more troops, as if that would lead to anything other than more war.

Arguments based on the notion that ignoring Bush's lies, and continuing to set our foriegn policy upon the rotten foundation they establish, carry no weight with me. In fact, they strike me as preposterous.




"I think the American people--I hope the American--I don't think, let me--I hope the American people trust me."
- George W. Bush, Washington, D.C., Dec. 18, 2002

[IrateCitizen]

42. You're exposing a big flaw in your reasoning here, superfly

You can take your "truth", roll it up in a big fattie, and smoke it, it's still not going to address the crisis that Iraq is facing if we do not grab our moral cojones and rebuild that nation, before pulling out.

It is a mortal flaw to look at this as "WE" rebuilding "THEIR" country. If anything, it should be "THEM" rebuilding "THEIR" country as much as possible, with "OUR" assistance, as much as "THEY" ask for it.

"WE" are rebuilding "THEIR" country right now, with disastrous consequences for both the near and short term. For Iraq to emerge as a self-governing nation with at least a functioning economy, they must have control over their development. Instead, Bremer has opened the floodgates to US firms, ensuring that rampant mafia-capitalism will rule in Iraq, since it does not have any of the institutions necessary to regulate foreign capital flows. Addditionally, US corporations will invest in Iraq only so long as it profits their short-term -- leading to a grossly inefficient and unequal public infrastructure.

The US is not some kind of "global moral authority". We are FAR from it, as much as we don't like to admit it. A step in the right direction is realizing and admitting those flaws, then setting about to try and do the RIGHT thing -- which, in this case, is turning over Iraq to the Iraqis and pledging to help them in any way THEY ask us to.

[PaDUer]

23. Send * and

his thugs, not innocent people...what the hell's going on! Why's this madman allowed to continue this charade and get away with it!

[leesa]

4. To withdraw our forces is the only thing to do. The US no longer has

any credibility in Iraq. We must withdraw immediately and ceded all control AND all riches back to Iraq along with international assistance. Our only role should be to pay for the damages we caused.

[Superfly]

5. Can you spell V-A-C-U-U-M

So, we withdraw today...who will be in control? Those witht he most guns and the least amount of apprehension in using those guns to bend the will of the average citizen. No, we need to stay there and stabilize that country before thinking about pulling out.

[xJlM]

6. So when are you set to leave?

Since you're ready to be so heroic, I'm sure your name is first on the volunteer list. Right? I think guys like you and all your families should be among the first to go.

[Superfly]

7. Funny you should mention that. I'm still serving.

I am in the US Army Field Artillery. If they call, I will go in a heartbeat.

So, what was your point?

[Military Brat]

12. Superfly, I wish the best for you

You sure sound like you've got your feet firmly planted on the ground and your eyes looking straight ahead. I just hope that if you do go to Iraqinam, you will be able to accomplish the mission in your heart and not be chewed up and spat out by the machine.

[Superfly]

13. I'll try.

Like I said, it's a huge shit sandwich...

[tabasco]

18. They paid me to get out a few years ago.

I took the VSI to get out back in 1995. Still in the IRR. Now they're saying I might get called up. Unbelievable. Former infantry. But, like you, if called, I'll go. Of course, they have to give me a couple months to get in shape - haha.

[Superfly]

19. Glad to serve with you, friend.

:thumbsup:

[xJlM]

35. Why wait for them to call?

You're gung ho, go volunteer. Why are you sitting around posting on the internet when you could be out fighting freedom?

[IrateCitizen]

38. Read carefully, you'll see superfly opposed the invasion, xJIM

He clearly stated as much. He also stated that he isn't in favor of what's being done right now, either.

In short, he's in a difficult situation, one which is not enviable. See, if you're serving as a soldier, you have to believe with some part of your being that what you're serving is somehow noble, in some way. If you lose that belief, then it becomes EXTREMELY difficult, psychologically, to continue to serve.

I know this personally, because it is what has happened to me. I'm a junior officer in the Army Reserves. Through a personal spiritual evolution coupled with a study of history on my own, I came to the point that I don't believe in militarism at all anymore. And it's a difficult thing, especially when you're still contractually committed to serve. Each and every time I put on my uniform, I no longer feel pride -- only conflict. When I am surrounded by my fellow soldiers and officers, I feel only isolation from them, not comraderie. I have taken steps to leave the military, but in the meantime I still am in a situation in which I have to serve.

To be quite honest, I wouldn't wish this perspective on anyone else at all. It is much, much easier for them, while in uniform, to retain their rationalizations that they are doing some kind of good. I will not denounce them personally for that, because they are only living what they believe to be true. Since my beliefs have taken me in a different direction, I am trying to live by what I believe to be true.

In the end, that's all any of us can do. We can try to convince others of our perspective, but it is not at all right to condemn them should their perspective, in the end, remain different from ours.

You know, the old saying about "let he who is without sin cast the first stone" and all that....

[Loonman]

9. 4 of my friends are on pre-call up list for ANG activation

They've been told not to travel after January 1st so they can be able to get the phone call.

I find your hippy comment exceedingly offensive.

[Name removed]

36. Deleted message

Message removed by moderator. Click here to review the message board rules.

[Loonman]

37. x

x

[PaDUer]

24. Wonder if your "friend" is

from the other board and has been "visiting" here awhile??

[Superfly]

25. What does that mean?

nt

[PaDUer]

28. patriotism

You're so gun-ho on this so-called OIL war..the only people I've seen hip hip hooray are on another forum but when draft/war is mentioned, they put their tail between their legs, but you've over 1000 posts..Hope you stay safe and might be able to recruit some of your friends to go along with you..I and many others do not support oil wars and the troops should be sent home and NOT in a box. Be sure to email the board when you're over there and when your time is up and are told you can't leave. Too many suicides, wonder why, and daily american lost lives when the quagmire is supposedly over, thanks to the "uniter".

[Superfly]

29. What other forum?

You're losing me.

[Name removed]

30. Deleted message

Message removed by moderator. Click here to review the message board rules.

[Superfly]

31. NT

NT

[Devils Advocate NZ]

8. Huh?

So, we withdraw today...who will be in control? Those witht he most guns and the least amount of apprehension in using those guns to bend the will of the average citizen.

What exactly do you think US soldiers are doing in Iraq, if not using the most guns and the least amount of apprehension in using those guns to bend the will of the average citizen?

After all, I don't remember there being any elections or referenda where the Iraq people agreed to the privatisation of their national assets.

US troops are being used to STEAL IRAQ'S WEALTH. Get them out and send in UN peacekeepers.

[Superfly]

11. You are correct on this:

"After all, I don't remember there being any elections or referenda where the Iraq people agreed to the privatisation of their national assets."

But that still does not justify leaving *right now*. That only highlights the illegitimacy of the war being waged in the first place by the Bush gang.

We have a moral responsibility to all Iraqis that their country is rebuilt so that they can actually be a viable international economic power. And that means affording the Iraqis the means to hold peaceful elections and engage in commerce, while being protected from those who will stop at nothing (including suicide bombings) to prevent that from happening.

[Devils Advocate NZ]

44. What's wrong with UN troops WITHOUT US Troops?

Of course the US would have to make some MAJOR concessions to get the cooperation of the UN, but that should be expected.

[izzie]

10. Frankly don't you think Iraq is moving towards Civil War?

n/t

[leftchick]

27. it already is a vacuum...

It is apparent daily that the US is not in "control" of a fucking thing in Iraq. They can't even pump the fucking oil out!

[kclown]

20. I agree on withdrawal, but how, exactly?

We don't really control Baghdad Airport. We would have to go back through Kuwait, and that's a really long retreat. The troops would have to fly white flags, and even that may not protect them.

[Jacobin]

15. If you ask the Iraqis they just might disagree....

Of course, those who support the invasion don't give a rats ass about what's good for Iraq anyway

[Superfly]

17. Blinders? I don't see no stinking blinders!

Wake up man, I didn't and still don't support the invasion. I do, however support, with ever fiber of my being, the restoration of Iraq to a nation where people like Saddam cannot terrorize its citizens. And, pulling out of Iraq right now will not accomplish that goal.

[Jacobin]

32. So, you think a continued military occupation of Iraq by infidels

will "restore" Iraq?

I admire your optimism, but deplore the lack of historical perspective that will cause countless thousands to die.

Would you support foreign invaders on American soil if we were "liberated" from a tyrant? I mean, after the tyrant was deposed.

I wouldn't. I would fight the occupying forces to the death.

Of course there will be a civil war. There will be one whether we are there or not, unless we repress them as brutally as Saddam did, and then what have you accomplished.

Just because someone hands you a "shit sandwich" doesn't mean you have to eat it.

[Superfly]

33. Historical perspective?

Germany, after 1945. Italy, the same.

[IrateCitizen]

34. Try Iraq, circa early 1900's, when the British tried to occupy it.

The parallels to Germany and Italy after WWII are strained, at the very least. Both had experiences (and therefore some basis) with a republican form of government. Both were also within the same "cultural sphere" of their occupiers.

The situation in Iraq does not resemble that at all. It more closely resembles the efforts of the British Empire to maintain Iraq as a colony -- an effort that crashed in flames due to the nationalist sentiments of the Iraqis combined with the colonialist aspirations of the British.

The current situation is not much different, with the increasing acts of violence against civilians by US troops (which is unfortunately bound to happen when you have no idea who is shooting at you) combined with the opening up of Iraq to foreign takeovers via L. Paul Bremer's PGA edict #39. Tens of thousands of Iraqis previously employed by state enterprises are losing their jobs, basic services are still intermittent at best, and the face of the occupiers is still masked behind the barrel of a gun.

I can fully appreciate your resolve in trying to make SOME kind of sense of all of this -- after all, nobody wants to believe that they're serving a grand deception. I know that more than you probably realize. But a grand deception is what it is, with the sole motivation of those calling the shots as pure, unadulterated greed.

[leftchick]

40. well said IC....

The MOTHER of Grand Deceptions!

[Beaker]

39. someone's seen "Full Metal Jacket" recently, huh?

nt

[Ishoutandscream]

21. If Bush wins in 04 - Here come da draft, here come da draft

nm

[PaDUer]

26. It appears they've

already taken care of the selection again..remember how fast he had everything ready and rolled it right out, including the extra SS, shadow govt, and other things..It was ALL planned in advance due to their "buds" fixing things..don't be surprised when it all comes down to the wire and he's still there..put nothing past these mobsters..they're letting people go through the motions of voting as they've done before..remember who's who..

[PaDUer]

22. Why are they allowed

to continue this BS war story when it's all about OIL..what is congress doing about this?!

[CivilRightsNow]

43. AUSA release

....

The resolutions call for an increase of 50,000 soldiers in active duty end strength for the active Army and increased spending for the Army National Guard and Army Reserve to recapitalize equipment, modernize the force and increase full-time manning.

The committee wrote: "Constrained by an active component end strength , the Army has mobilized 60 percent of the National Guard and 42 percent of the Army Reserve since September 2001, and has had no choice but to implement a rotation policy calling for one year on the ground in Iraq."


http://www.ausa.org/www/ausanews.nsf/0/2c27b5d64e340df285256de30009d0b5?OpenDocument&AutoFramed